(828,3023,'wiskers','dannywickham@yahoo.es','','88.8.67.242','2012-01-01 07:40:54','2012-01-01 15:40:54','Hi there, \r\n\r\nThe whole debate hangs on what you personally believe in and adhere to. For some of us it is God´s Word, understood as the Bible and all that it has to say on any particular issue. \r\n\r\nIf you are a Bible believing Christian and want to personally live your life in accordance with God´s word and the light you receive from it, then it is pretty difficult to ignore the fact that nowehere are same sex relationships actually condoned. But there are a number of passages that do condemn such relationships. \r\n\r\nNow, as we are not living in a closed shop society like the Israelites did, we cannot compell our view on any collective or group if their base belief is not Bible based. That is obvious. We can only pray that more and more people will come to a saving knowledge and submission to God in His Word and live in the power of the Holy Spirit. Incidentally this is the power that \"empowers you\" to live a life that pleases God. You cannot even hope to win over sin if you are not filled with the Spirit. That is the key and the message. Living a christian life in your own human strength is absolutely useless AND VERY FRUSTRATING TO BOOT!. You have no power to sustain victory in your own strength. For that reason ALL sin can only be defeated by living constantly under the power of the Holy Spirit. And when you do you begin to discern God´s heart on all such matters and you begin to see things from God´s point of view in a clearer way. So I say to those who are calling themselves Christians and yet indulge in same sex relationships that this is because you lack the power to win over this particular weakness. So you have to try and find a reason that condones something you can´t change in your own power. The key then is to submit to the Holy Spirit, adore Him as you do the Father and the Son and tell Him you want His infilling to win over sin and to be made more like Jesus. \r\n\r\nI guess some of you will think I´m mad. Believe me, I know from personal experience about this and I know it is the heart of the Gospel and the heart of God´s victory over the sin we founder in. I don´t condem anyone, I encourage you towards victory and towards hearing God´s heart on these issues. But I have yet to see any heated Christian debate about the current world economic crisis and the inmense greed we have nurtured in our midst and allowed in our society go unchecked. Comparatively speaking the effects of greed have had a much wider damaging effect than the ethical debate about same sex partnerships. My main worry is that, like the abortion debate, Christians have lost the battle, we lost it in many other areas. We are losing the battle over sin generally. The ONLY way to win is Spirit filling. \r\n\r\nI hope to have helped here. If I haven´t or have offended anyone the offence is only because I hold very firm views, not from personal animosity towards any of you or what you believe or do.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_1; es-es) AppleWebKit/531.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.3 Safari/531.9','',0,0),(829,3419,'Michael Levitt','levitt.mike@gmail.com','http://levittmike.com','173.32.167.10','2012-01-01 14:43:34','2012-01-01 22:43:34','Sometimes it takes a simple event as a girl on a pogo stick, to get us out of our self-induced funk.\r\n\r\nMy prayer for 2012 is that we live more like that little girl.\r\n\r\nBlessings!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(830,2624,'Kevin Gonzaga','kglethean@gmail.com','http://speakfaithfully.wordpress.com','99.96.5.47','2012-01-01 14:54:19','2012-01-01 22:54:19','Bronwen,\r\n\r\nThanks for taking the time to post this article it definitely has been through provoking.  \r\n\r\nOn one hand I agree with a lot of what you say.  I think many world religions actually do espouse love as a high ideal.  I think followers of Jesus should strive to love other people, regardless of what world religions they claim. I have studies many major world religions, read various sacred scriptures of other religions, visited various worship centers and have always found parallels and connections with Jesus teachings or other teachings in the Bible.  I think someone can be a follower of Jesus and stay culturally Muslim or culturally Jewish, etc. (In other words I believe in things like the Insider Movement. http://biblicalmissiology.org/2011/03/20/the-insider-movement-a-brief-overview-and-analysis/) I have also encountered many Christians who worship a very weak God and feel the need to protect God. For example, I have been many times counseled to not question God.  As if God is scared of my questions. I find many practices of the Christian religion to be misguided to outright against the teachings of Jesus and am deeply troubled by this.\r\n\r\nAll that being said, I share many of the concerns A.J. and Marni have brought up and some other ones.  I\'ll try to touch on them in no real particular order. \r\n\r\nWhile some religious people might vehemently defend their God because they are insecure, there are many times in the scriptures where God takes actions to directly prove God is stronger than other gods.  For example, during the Exodus each of the plagues stepped on the domain of an Egyptian god.  Famously at Mt. Carmel Elijah challenged several hundred prophets of a false God and God showed up miraculously. So it appears sometimes God does show up other gods in \"power-contests.\" What do you make of these?\r\n\r\nThe best summation of your position is in your own words I think. \"The perspective I hold is that many ways/paths CAN lead to God. It doesn’t mean they do! It is the practicing, the living, the embodying of everything good in a faith path that leads one to salvation (imho).\"  \r\n\r\nWhile I want to respect your opinion and the journey that has taken you to it, I do not think this opinion can be reconciled with the Bible, the message of the Gospel, history or the message of Jesus.\r\n\r\nFirst, the Bible is consistent in its call to monalatry, that is the worship of God alone.  No where does the Bible suggest that worship of other gods/idols might lead to the LORD. In fact many evils and punishments are traced back to the followers of God worshiping other gods alongside the LORD or other gods instead of the LORD.\r\n\r\nSecond, salvation (whatever that means) is never promised to people who have are practicing a good faith path. Romans 1-4 appear to make it clear that all people are incapable of righteousness apart from the righteousness made available through Jesus.  Jesus himself says, in John 15, that apart from Him we can do nothing. Jesus talks about the road to destruction being wide.\r\n\r\nThird, if Jesus teachings were ultimately to set up people on a right spiritual path, why were followers of Jesus persecuted?  Numerous cults and religions that searched for the personal salvation or enlightenment of its members existed within the Roman Empire that were never persecuted.  It is my understanding that early followers of Jesus took the Lordship of Jesus Christ and refused to participate in the cult of the emperor (and other religions/cults) and saw Jesus as their only true Lord and master. This is why the Roman Empire persecuted them.  If Jesus was just a good moral example to follow, or even a God who had no problem if you worshiped in other religions because some of them might lead to Him, why would anyone persecute people like that?\r\n\r\nI guess at the end of the day I feel that to hold your opinions you would have to disregard much of what the Bible says and much of what Jesus Himself taught. \r\n\r\nI hope this does not come off as an attack in any way.  I am trying to understand your position better.\r\n\r\nYou have provided your interpretation of John 10:16 and Matthew 10:34, but I\'m curious if you could explain more of your faith journey that brought you to this point, your understanding of the verses A.J. brought up regarding Jesus name being above every other name, and clarify if you claim to be a follower of Jesus and what you think about the Bible. (This to me was unclear from your post.)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',0,124),(831,3290,'Kevin Gonzaga','kglethean@gmail.com','http://speakfaithfully.wordpress.com','99.96.5.47','2012-01-01 15:13:52','2012-01-01 23:13:52','Derek,\r\n\r\nI really appreciated your thoughts in this article.  Many of your thoughts resonated with me and many of my friends. We are all Millenials who have left the Church/Christianity/organized religion. Too much of church boils down to tweaking and chasing fads with a consumeristic mentality.  I fear that even many Emerging/Emergent churches/communities are following in the same mentality and may result in just another cosmetic layer of the same faulty foundations. I hope we can move forward and really address the root issues that have resulted from the Church leaving Jesus behind and not just keep addressing the symptoms that this departure has caused.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',0,124),(832,3290,'drdlpenwell','dlpenw01@gmail.com','http://drdlpenwell.wordpress.com','74.134.93.99','2012-01-01 16:33:08','2012-01-02 00:33:08','Thank you, Kevin.  I\'m glad you\'re part of the conversation.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',831,93),(833,3419,'Pam','Pwalden55@yahoo.com','http://ThankYou','108.205.225.237','2012-01-01 16:46:42','2012-01-02 00:46:42','I look forward each day for the latest post from Ray. His post are so personal but yet we all can relate to them in one way or another if we are just willing to listen to ourselves .',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,0),(834,3419,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.173.62','2012-01-01 17:32:37','2012-01-02 01:32:37','You\'re right, Michael. We trudge along in our own self-pity and sometimes God sends us a sign. Sometimes unintentional, but often powerful.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',829,12),(835,3419,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.173.62','2012-01-01 17:35:42','2012-01-02 01:35:42','Thanks, Pam. That was really encouraging. Thank you for your kind feedback.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',833,12),(836,3444,'Jonathan Crouch','jmcrouch@gmail.com','','99.27.133.5','2012-01-02 15:02:18','2012-01-02 23:02:18','It seems he brings up a good point that goes into all levels of life. That is the \"why\" of what is being done. I do this because? A heretic is someone who refuses to do it because \"that\'s what we do.\" The want to feel it out, test it but it into action and know that it connects and engages buyers/consumers/employees at a deep level intuitively. \r\nThis appears as a threat to the dogmatic rule minders who say, \"play it safe, be careful, what if ect.\" This is so prevalent in western Christianity. I deal with it all the time. Challenge someone\'s safe security blanket belief system and the wolfs will try to tear your head off. So I say, \"fuck it.\" Don\'t try to change anything. Do something that is a reflection of that which you are.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',0,24),(837,3444,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.5.247.249','2012-01-02 16:20:35','2012-01-03 00:20:35','Jonathan, it just goes to show you how important story is to people.  A really good story resonates with people at a very deep level.  But when organizations refuse to tell a good story, they lose people\'s interest.  And when its the church, its just sad.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',836,1),(838,2624,'Bronwen','bronwen.henry@newchurch.org','','66.16.105.41','2012-01-02 16:50:15','2012-01-03 00:50:15','Thanks for your comment Taara. I do not see salvation as something I (or another) can earn and yet at the same time we must work/live/practice as if our actions could make a difference...and they will lead (along a path) in which salvation is possible. I personally believe the Divine is eager to save everyone and is constantly working towards this end no matter the religious path we are on.  What is your view?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',813,0),(839,2624,'Bronwen','bronwen.henry@newchurch.org','','66.16.105.41','2012-01-02 16:55:12','2012-01-03 00:55:12','Taara, I also wanted to share this quote I recently read (which studying in the Bible on forgiveness) “It was also written that this message would be proclaimed in the authority of his name to all the nations, beginning in Jerusalem: ‘There is forgiveness of sins for all who repent.’” (Luke 24:47) . To me it relates to the conversation.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',838,0),(840,2624,'Bronwen','bronwen.henry@newchurch.org','','66.16.105.41','2012-01-02 17:10:38','2012-01-03 01:10:38','Kevin,\r\nThank you for your thoughtful responses. I love the humility of this journey of posting to a blog (this if my first time post for me :P ), I am learning so much through people comments and questions...about other viewpoints and helping me to clarify and articulate my own...so thanks for kindly engaging in the conversation with me!\r\n\r\nThanks for reminding me of the \'god\' power contests in the Old Testaments. I think that it is important that \'God\' overthrows the false gods we have in our lives. The god of selfishness, of needing to look good, of needing to be right, of needing to be wealthier. I am NOT EVEN REMOTELY (did that add enough emphasis? I want to be sure!) an old testament scholar, but I wonder if the \'gods\' that were being overthrown were symbols of gods of selfishness etc.? I think if there is goodness in a religion that God is there working through it, trying to turn us away from the false gods of love of self/dominion etc. [This does raise the important question of HOW can one know if there is goodness in a religion.]\r\n\r\nI have recently come to the conclusion that my biblical knowledge/understanding has expired. So, even though I\'ve been familiar with the Bible for my whole life, I feel I am exploring it a new for the first time. I deeply want to know and follow the way of Jesus and I have many questions, doubts, and uncertainties. And I think God can handle these.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',830,0),(841,3225,'Bronwen','bronwen.henry@newchurch.org','','66.16.105.41','2012-01-02 17:27:04','2012-01-03 01:27:04','I love this post. Thank you.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(842,3001,'Church Wife','rebeccamoranwv@gmail.com','','98.157.111.81','2012-01-03 05:55:00','2012-01-03 13:55:00','This is a hard read for the wife of someone in that position.\r\n\r\nMy husband knows that divorce is not what God wants for us.  For me, for him, for our marriage, for our children.\r\n\r\nBut he also knows that God will forgive that sin (and any other he chooses to commit in the process).  He\'s skipping merrily about, surrounded by the forgiveness of God (and all of our Christian friends....because we all sin.  and no sin is greater than any other sin, so who are we to call him out on his or judge?) all the way to the divorce lawyer.....while the children and I are mourning this terrible loss and quite honestly....feeling destroyed. \r\n\r\nIt\'s hard for me to go to church.  To see him so happily and contently loved by God and everyone around him, while I\'m feeling hurt and abandoned....but my husband and by God.  I know that feeling isn\'t true, that God must be there, somewhere, even though I can\'t seem to connect or take comfort in my suffering.  But it\'s a hard pill to swallow every Sunday morning.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(843,3001,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','65.5.84.58','2012-01-03 09:34:51','2012-01-03 17:34:51','I\'m glad you came by and commented because it\'s an issue that always needs clarification.\r\n\r\nI had a fallen pastor\'s wife email me a few months ago. Her question was, \"He\'s not repenting, am I supposed to forgive him?\" In fact, not only was he not repenting, but he was telling her that everything was her fault, she was to blame for his adultery, and that her unwillingness to forgive was a sin. The entire time, he was ignoring his own sin and not asking forgiveness.\r\n\r\nRestoring someone and walking by them also means turning them toward the right path - toward repentance. The pastor\'s wife also needs love and compassion. You are hurting and in need of care. If his attitude truly is one of \"freedom\" since he doesn\'t have to worry about his former marriage, then he\'s probably in the same situation many fallen pastors are right after their fall - denial. He does need help, but not the kind he\'s getting. \r\n\r\nPray that God will work on his heart. And your heart as well. Love your children as you know how to. Pray for godly, discerning people to rise up and restore your husband as he should be. And I will be praying for you both.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',842,12),(844,3023,'Liz','lizdyer@verizon.net','http://gracerules.wordpress.com/','63.240.122.129','2012-01-03 10:28:17','2012-01-03 18:28:17','I am a very, very, very serious student of scripture and after very, very, very much study of the few passages that address same sex relationships (studying the original contexts and original language) it is obvious that those scriptures are not referring to loving, monogamous same sex relationships and now that most Christians are aware of the error in trying to use those scriptures to condemn same sex relationships many are now trying to say that same sex relationships should be condemned because there is no scripture to condone them.  I think that is a dangerous way to use scripture as a guide or authority.  When I realized that scripture did not address loving, monogamous same sex relationships I had to ask myself how would God want me to proceed? - should I condemn something because it isn\'t addressed? what would be the just thing to do?  I came to the conclusion that it would be unjust for me to condemn anything without sufficient evidence if it doesn\'t cause obvious harm to someone.... therefore, I cannot condemn same sex relationships that are loving and monogamous - and I believe it is unjust for anyone to do so based on the fact that scripture does not address the issue.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(845,3023,'Alise Wright','Buddynet02@att.net','http://MarriageEquality','108.94.51.78','2012-01-03 10:31:56','2012-01-03 18:31:56','It\'s taken me a very long to accept the idea of same sex marriage.  I never felt I was bigoted, and I never minded what kind of sex two consenting adults engaged in within the privacy of their own homes.  I did support civil unions with all the same rights (still not aware of the 1,000 or so I have that single folks don\'t have) as marriage, but just did not want to redefine the word \"marriage.\"  I feared that it would open the door to plural marriage.  I do want equality for gays, but I wonder if those who are so strong on this issue would think me bigoted if I said I hope we can at least confine marriage to be between two people.  I\'ve been on some sites where you are considered bigoted if you don\'t support plural marriage, and I think if we are going to make it legal for any amount of people, be they a group, a cult, or whatever can be married to each other, we might just as well toss out marriage altogether and just have legal commitments for anyone who wants to be committed to however many people they want.  Like I have said many times, I do believe in equality for all, but I wonder where this is all taking us, and mainly I worry about what it will do to the strides women have made throughout the centuries.  I\'ve heard even some feminists say nothing\'s wrong with plural marriage, that they could dig it, while some of my liberal women friends say it\'s not for them, but they are okay with it for others.  I believe that no matter what people say there are some basic differences with the majority of men and women and that most women favor monogamy, while most men like the idea of \"severals\" and if it there were no laws against it, women who want to marry would not have a very strong argument against it if their beloved wanted to bring others into their home.  Not a bigot in my heart, only truly concerned.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(846,3290,'Rev. Pat Kriss','patkriss@aol.com','','96.233.184.86','2012-01-03 14:13:33','2012-01-03 22:13:33','Derek, thank you for your very thought-provoking article. I used the key points of your thoughts in my New Year\'s Day sermon to challenge the congregation to think about their claim to being Christian. We are also going to discuss your article on Thursday during our Interfaith Clergy meeting for, whether we\'re talking church or synagogue, the core of the concept is whether or not we are truly living our respective faiths in the insightful eyes of young adults. Thank you for some very rich food for thought.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,0),(847,3290,'drdlpenwell','dlpenw01@gmail.com','http://drdlpenwell.wordpress.com','74.134.93.99','2012-01-03 15:02:01','2012-01-03 23:02:01','How incredibly kind of you to write, Pat.  Thank you.  I\'m glad you find this stuff useful!\n\nI\'m especially interested to know how this comes across in an interfaith context.  Please do let me know.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',846,93),(848,3452,'David Henson','bluegrassrambling@gmail.com','','24.42.177.57','2012-01-03 17:41:14','2012-01-04 01:41:14','What a great comparison. You\'ve got a great thesis under the right adviser here!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.21.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.5 Safari/533.21.1','',0,31),(849,3452,'Jeremy Stephens','jeremylovesjesus@gmail.com','http://www.quarterlifechristian.com','71.56.47.104','2012-01-03 18:14:58','2012-01-04 02:14:58','Thanks! It would definitely be something worth doing the legwork of a thesis for!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',848,0),(850,3334,'Morgan Guyton','maguyton@gmail.com','http://morganguyton.wordpress.com','173.73.75.39','2012-01-03 20:18:20','2012-01-04 04:18:20','But you\'re talking about a modernist propositional account of \"belief.\" Take this argument to its logical extreme and you can apply it to language itself so that only pre-linguistic experience is authentic. Everyone lives inside a story; no one can transcend this basic epistemological foundation. For me, the Christian story has the most promise (though not necessarily as it\'s been told by Western modernity which almost destroyed it).',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,57),(851,3444,'Morgan Guyton','maguyton@gmail.com','http://morganguyton.wordpress.com','173.73.75.39','2012-01-03 20:27:45','2012-01-04 04:27:45','Of course, the important thing to keep in mind when we apply this to Christian history is that the heretics have often been the side that was winning at the time. The Marcionites, Gnostics, Donatists, Arians, Nestorians, et all were not always fringe groups that the mainstream stomped out; some of them were the majority perspective before Nicaea, Chalcedon, etc. \r\n\r\nSo I would deploy the linguistics differently than Godin is. He\'s using \"heretic\" as an unequivocally positive term. I think that heresy refers to that part of what is generally thought to be \"orthodoxy\" that is in the process of being revealed as inadequate. Those who defend the inadequacy for the sake of maintaining the status quo are the heretics, while those who \"will not keep their peace until Zion shines like the dawn\" (Is 62:1) are the prophets.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,57),(852,2980,'Morgan Guyton','maguyton@gmail.com','http://morganguyton.wordpress.com','173.73.75.39','2012-01-03 20:33:54','2012-01-04 04:33:54','I tend to use the terms \"good\" and \"evil\" differently (perhaps). Evil is not the opposite of good, but rather describes my need to claim whatever good passes through me as my private property rather than the product of my participation in God. I would say that we are good insofar as we are vessels through whom God moves, but good never originates in us.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',820,57),(853,3444,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.5.255.56','2012-01-03 22:49:05','2012-01-04 06:49:05','Morgan, you said, \"I think that heresy refers to that part of what is generally thought to be “orthodoxy” that is in the process of being revealed as inadequate.\" \r\n\r\nI don\'t know if history agrees with you.  Jesus was a heretic and was crucified for it.  He was on the losing side but ended up winning. I think a heretic is often (although not always) exactly what the prophets are in their time, only vindicated later on.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',851,1),(854,3334,'John Ptacek','ptaceks@hotmail.com','','65.30.31.100','2012-01-04 03:56:24','2012-01-04 11:56:24','Morgan,\r\n\r\nIt is indeed possible to breech one\'s story by becoming thought\'s witness. To understand that thought is limited is the beginning of intelligence. Surely Jesus, who transcended the realm of thought, pointed to this truth.\r\n\r\nJohn',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1; Trident/4.0; SU 3.95; .NET CLR 1.0.3705; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; Media Center PC 4.0; eMusic DLM/4; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; AskTbBCPA/5.11.3.15590)','',0,0),(855,3023,'Austin','aleikenberry@yahoo.com','','12.189.199.68','2012-01-04 06:32:24','2012-01-04 14:32:24','This is a functional misnomer. While the words in the Greek typically refer to an older man and a younger boy, they also were applied to men of the same age in comitted relationships. Likewise, the Greeks played on the idea of female same sex unions (the Isle of Lesbos is where we get our word Lesbian from). They had these ideas and they applied them. While it is popular nowadays to read into the culture a condemnation only of the adult/child homosexual relationship, this is only possible if it is read into the scripture, rather than extracted from scripture. Likewise, looking at the Greek fails to address the Hebrew basis (OT) for the Greek usage (NT). In Leviticus, there was no pattern of adult men/boy relationships to be paralleled. From a biblical basis, the pattern of behavior has to be understood from the earlier basis rather than viewing this strictly as a Greek discussion. Remember that Paul was a Hebrew first, a Pharisee second, and a Christian Apostle third. His understanding would be derived from the Hebrew Scriptures.\r\n\r\nWhile the word used in Leviticus can be debated, the understanding is difficult to reverse. The List of sins decried in this list is all sexual sins, and homosexuality is included. The idea of homosexuality being openly allowed in the society is difficult to accept... The committed relationship is not talked of because the committed relationship is only allowed in marriage which is by implication between a man and a woman. The idea is to remove sexual sin - which includes sex outside of marriage. Since marriage is between a man and a woman (there are innumerable marriages listed in scripture and not one of them is homosexual in nature, the creation was a man and a woman, the institution of marriage is between a man and a woman - for this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and they will become one flesh, the language has words for bride and groom seperate than man and woman, and they are used in complementary text - I could keep going), committed homosexual relationships cannot be called marriage in a religious sense, therefore, they still fit the category of sexual sin.\r\n\r\nIf we as a society want to look beyond the biblical definition of marriage, I have serious issues with using the religious word marriage, or claiming that it is based off religious understandings (that is, allowed to be instituted by clergy). If this is the case, it becomes merely a legal institution, which is fine.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; InfoPath.3; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E)','',826,0),(856,3023,'wiskers','dannywickham@yahoo.es','','85.57.25.67','2012-01-04 06:40:59','2012-01-04 14:40:59','I think it sounds a bit presumptuous to say that one´s Bible study has to be considered the most serious like our friend Liz inferrs above. So I throw the glove down and ask her to show how she has come to her conclusions based on very (very, very) serious study of the Bible. I don´t wish to knock, this is an open forum of ideas and i am learning as I go along from everyone else so its the wrong scenario to push everyone against the wall and make us think our own opinion might not be as kosher as someone elses. I know Liz doesn´t say that but I suggest it would help the forum to avoid being too categorical about our opinions or be prepared to be challenged. Having said that, I am also glad that Liz seems to take this seriously and so can we benefit from what Liz has discovered please? I would really appreciate the data as this is a controversial subject and we need as much input as possible. But I would ask one thing. Please don´t keep using love as the main reason for acquiessence. God´s love is on a par with His total, out and out determination to extinguish our fallen nature. For some that may be a real shock. God´s love delays His judgement. But judgement on sin will be carried out, dare I say \"whether we like it or not\", so best be sure we got our lifestyle right!\r\n \r\n\r\nOne last comment: If I stand the risk of being called \"bigoted\" because I do not think same sex partnerships or relationships are allowed by God then please call me bigoted.  I´d say another example of my possible \"bigotry\" is about abortion. Where I live I am anti abortion and that puts me in the male chauvinist bigotry crowd for the majority of my fellow countrymen and women. It doesn´t bother me. I don´t think even Hitler killed as many innocents as the democratic and \"free\" Western civilisation has done since abortion was legalised. Sorry to digress, it was just an example of acquiessence to fallen nature that I won´t go along with.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,0),(857,3023,'Austin','aleikenberry@yahoo.com','','12.189.199.68','2012-01-04 06:58:10','2012-01-04 14:58:10','If sin hurts the individual, then sin always hurts someone.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; InfoPath.3; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E)','',844,0),(858,3023,'Joe Machuta','joe@rijenterprises.com','http://www.paradigmshift-jmac.blogspot.com','99.189.116.26','2012-01-04 07:30:47','2012-01-04 15:30:47','Hi Wiskers,\r\nHave you ever stopped to wonder if you could be wrong? Could mainstream evangelical theology be wrong? I think that it is, and quite frankly substantiate it by using the bible and the writings of the first century believers. Jesus and his followers redefined the term word of God to mean either him or the gospel. I think it was to avoid the worship of the book that evangelicals are victims of. He also gave scripture a *solely* redemptive focus that points to God\'s unconditional love and grace. So then, what if the bible is not the word of God per se, and is not a rule book that God judges anyone by? What if we arrived at this error by insisting on *sola scriptural* to overthrow the bad theology of the Roman Catholic Church?\r\n\r\nBelieve me when I say that if one spends some time in study and begins to use the hermeneutics of Jesus instead of the hermeneutics of the scribes and Pharisees one gets a very different picture. A picture where God does accept loving monogamous same sex relationships. \r\n\r\nThink of the thousands, perhaps millions of miserable hetrosexual marriages, that remain intact year after painful year solely based upon the misreading of the book.\r\n\r\nI have written 150 blog posts that if you read them over time you can see that there is some substance to what I am positing. The minute you see that I have a scriptural viable hermeneutic then your certainty is gone forever.\r\n\r\nBlessings,\r\nJoe',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',856,0),(859,3023,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2012-01-04 07:56:11','2012-01-04 15:56:11','Wiskers, you said above that if you divorce reproduction from marriage, it makes it possible to agree to anything.  You said that men and women can have \"natural\" children to cement their bond, while same-sex couples can\'t.  So would you suggest that couples who don\'t want any children, or couples who go into marriage knowing that they don\'t possess functional reproductive organs should not get married?  What if couples simply fail to produce offspring?  Is their marriage bond weaker?  How about couples who adopt--that\'s not \"natural,\" it\'s a way around the natural reproductive process.  Is the non-biological child preventing a deeper bond in the marriage?  How about when one person has been married before and has kids, but the other hasn\'t, and they don\'t end up having kids together?  Or how about the elderly, long past their reproductive years (and do NOT quote to me about the unusual late-life pregnancies in the Bible).\r\n\r\nI\'m not going to argue about same-sex marriage with you, we would just have to agree to disagree on that one.  But I do take issue with your reduction of the marriage bond to biological children.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',856,43),(860,3558,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.5.255.56','2012-01-04 09:55:47','2012-01-04 09:55:47','Travis, I would like you to write this post speaking to yourself.  Make it reflective in what you learn, rather than try and ask if your audience is similar. It will make the post stronger.',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','editorial-comment',0,0),(861,1000,'Don Harris','don@thecompanyofjob.com','http://www.thecompanyofjob.com','12.146.242.4','2012-01-04 09:57:12','2012-01-04 17:57:12','And you wonder why so many people are rejecting the idea of going to church? This is truly sad, embarrassing, absurd, and all the other things people have said it is. What is is NOT is uplifting and beneficial to the body of Christ. Who was it who said \"Christianity would be wonderful if it weren\'t for the Christians\"?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(961,3564,'Donal','donal.storey@gmail.com','','79.97.157.95','2012-01-11 16:35:05','2012-01-12 00:35:05','Geeez... OK I know this sounds trivial but really if you want to put a picture of a Dublin pub on your post put a picture of a \'genuine\' one what ever that might be. Temple Bar (the street where the Temple Bar pub is located) is just a drinking den for English stag and hen nights. Sweep up the vomit and piss the following morning. Maybe that is what the Irish pub has become? \r\n\r\nThe pub is made to look like an \'old pub\' but it is not.\r\n\r\nBut then the type of pub it is supposed to represent only ever existed as a mythology anyway - kind of like the church I suppose',0,'1','Opera/9.80 (Windows NT 5.1; U; en) Presto/2.10.229 Version/11.60','',0,0),(863,3023,'Alise Wright','Buddynet02@att.net','http://MarriageEquality','108.94.51.78','2012-01-04 10:14:57','2012-01-04 18:14:57','I don\'t know how to get a name and picture on here, but this comment was made by Buddy AKA Beverly, Alise.  I was hoping to get a response to my post from someone, if not you.\r\n\r\nI want to add that I don\'t think we Christians or any other religion have the right to make laws based on what we view as sin.  My fears about plural marrage are not based on sin or if I think \"severals\" in a mutual sexual relationship is sinful because polygamy was practiced in biblical times, but purley as something not good for our culture and that could reduce many strides women have made.  I do not see same sex marriage in the same way, as they are two people, a couple, which comes a lot closer to my view of how marriage should be and less chance for exploitation.\r\n\r\nI\'m not sure that I buy the idea that the homosexuality \"do nots\" in the Bible were purely about temple prostitutes or older men with young boys, although I\'ve heard that a lot.  I also do not believe that the sin going on in Soddam and Gormmorah were just homosexual acts, but people wrapped up in all forms of sexuality to the point where they had forgotten lost their humanity to their own lusts.  However, I believe that scripture is up for intrepertation, and I respect others to have their own views and interpretations.  And my feelings about all of this aren\'t really biblical anyway, but based on concerns for society and for the impact on the female sex especially.\r\n\r\nI am aware of different cultures both ancient and more recent, and there have been some where same sex is okay, but people married opposite sex partners to reproduce.  That said, I\'m not sure reproduction is a necessary function for all persons in today\'s world as we are already overpopulated, and some people cannot reproduce and some choose not to.  I would not base any opposition to anyone marrying based on that.  In fact, it could be said that homosexuality is a built-in evolutionary response  our burgeoning overpopulated world.\r\n\r\nWith all the things we have to worry about, people without work, caused by greedy corporations moving their factories to other countries to exploit foriegners while denying their fellow Americans a way to support their families, with people dying because they cannot get health insurance or afford it, with a war going on where children and civilians are often maimed and killed by our own soldier children, with our own laziness poluting our planet, who people love and marry is the least of our problems.  And that said, I think same sex marriage is way healthier than group marriage, and I do support it but hope in my heart of hearts that it doesn\'t open the door for something I do not see as a good move for feminie equality which I believe would be the outcome of legiticizing plural marrage\r\n\r\nGod bless us and help us,\r\nBuddy aka Beverly.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',845,0),(864,3533,'Linda B.','lindabaley@aol.com','http://rawfaithrealworld.wordpress.com/','70.181.144.147','2012-01-04 10:44:34','2012-01-04 18:44:34','I am 53. My hair is graying. I\'m looking older all the time. I\'m good with that. I am the only one of my friends who doesn\'t color my hair. I don\'t have a problem that they do. But it does make me sad that so much of our conversations revolve around them trying to look younger... different clothes... different makeup ... special diets ... now there\'s talk of plastic surgery. Yet to me the things they are doing don\'t make them look any younger. It\'s just making them look more and more like a distorted version of themselves.  I say embrace the gray. Other than the health issues that come with aging I\'m enjoying the process.  I feel like I have so much more to give. I have a wealth of life experiences. I appreciate my time on the planet so much more. I\'m not dead yet... I\'m just older. Here\'s to the next set of adventures life has to offer.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/4.0; SLCC1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; Media Center PC 5.0; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; .NET4.0C)','',0,0),(865,3471,'JohnPtacek','ptaceks@hotmail.com','http://www.johnptacek.com','75.249.75.241','2012-01-04 10:50:38','2012-01-04 18:50:38','Deana, you had me at nature but lost me at God. As part of the natural world  we are governed by natural law. We are an infinitesimal yet sacred part of life\'s manifestation. Life comes coursing through us from the day we are born until the day we die. Any idea that we are the authors of our actions is illusion. We\'re all doing the best we can with what we\'ve got. \r\n\r\nUnder God\'s laws, however, we are permitted to judge ourselves and each other unmercifully. This stems from the concept of free will, which assumes that we are apart from nature rather than part of it.\r\n\r\nOne set of laws permits us to live in a permanent state of forgiveness, the other requires that we have to qualify for it - which strikes me as rather unnatural.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,123),(866,3399,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.5.255.56','2012-01-04 11:28:37','2012-01-04 11:28:37','Joy, I sent this back to draft.  Just resubmit it when you have the four posts ready.',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','editorial-comment',0,0),(867,3533,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-01-04 11:34:02','2012-01-04 19:34:02','Linda, I love your line,\"It\'s just making them look more and more like a distorted version of themselves.\"  As you can tell, I embrace the gray.  It saddens me to see how many older women have bought into our culture\'s demand for \"perpetual youth\". I\'m glad you live authentically as yourself, and hope the day will come when your friends do, too -- whatever authenticity means for them.  Thanks for your response.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',864,35),(868,3399,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-01-04 11:39:10','2012-01-04 11:39:10','Will do.  Be aware that the same photo attached for Part 1 will be used for all four articles.  I finished writing my third article today.  One more to go, then I will submit them all.  Thanks for your support, friend.',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','editorial-comment',0,0),(869,2318,'Warren Aldrich','warrenaldrich@hotmail.com','','71.181.79.6','2012-01-04 13:03:01','2012-01-04 21:03:01','Great.  Nice and clear.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(870,2318,'Jonathan Crouch','jmcrouch@gmail.com','','99.35.129.175','2012-01-04 13:16:47','2012-01-04 21:16:47','Thank you Warren. Yours is the 1st comment I have received ever on this site.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',869,24),(871,3023,'Justin Scott','justin@itsjustjustin.com','http://itsjustjustin.com','67.180.194.160','2012-01-04 13:55:44','2012-01-04 21:55:44','Totally agree, marriage equality, not gay marriage.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(872,3023,'wiskers','dannywickham@yahoo.es','','85.57.25.67','2012-01-04 14:58:48','2012-01-04 22:58:48','Response to Joe Machuta;  I respect what you are saying and if you reread my comment you will note that my mind is more open than you may think. But I can´t easily get away from Bible based discussion. You seem to suggest (and forgive me if I have misunderstood your view) that we can dispense with the Bible as the Word of God. If that is what you are saying then we have not much to base any discussion on because I happen to believe firmly in a generous interpretation of Scripture certainly not from a Scribe or Pharisaic view (which was exactly what Jesus was opposing) but more based on His forgiving attitude. However, may I make the point that although Jesus forgives, his advice is 2 go and do not sin anymore\". So I don´t think anyone can show plausible proof for Jeus´theology on accepting same sex marriages in any way. In fact, his disciples and the writers of the New Testament develop his teaching and this makes clear that any sexual relationship outside of marriage is not in God´s plan and can not therefore be blessed by Him. \r\n\r\nMay I also make the point that God forgives ONLY when there is repentance from sin.  If the New Testament does not condone any sexual relationship outside of marriage then I cannot honestly be inclined to think that He is condoning as good same sex marriages either.Very sorry but I remain unconvinced although open to more comment, of course.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,0),(873,3023,'wiskers','dannywickham@yahoo.es','','85.57.25.67','2012-01-04 15:15:17','2012-01-04 23:15:17','For amy Mitchell: You have probably misread my intention which was to state clearly that the natural way of God is to marry man with woman. Ask any biologist if that isn´t the 100% natural way. But you are right about other possibilites and i haven´t suggested that couples who don´t want to have children shouldn´t get married, nor if they can´t have kids, for some reproductive problem,  not be able to adopt. And hey, how many unsual births are recorded in the Bible (Isaac´s mum, Samuel´s mum, Jesus´mum! But the point I was making was that God´s norm is man + woman= child.  That is something that can´t \"naturally happen with same sex couples. I can´t equate sterility or adoption with same sex marriage. The fact that there are many hiccups in \"normal\" marriage doesn´t invalidate God´s plan. I´m saying that normal is a guideline to knowing what God intends. It is also a guideline to God´s intention that sex be kept within the marriage bond of male/female. The fact is that sin has brought about a total move away from God´s plan so I don´t see we can use current practice (extramarital sex) as the norm because that is called situational ethics. If we begin to use situational ethics then it will be difficult to get anything straight here. \r\n\r\nIf God had intended same sex marriages then would he not have said so or given even a miniscule indication to open the door? What I see in the Bible, correct me if I am wrong using the Bible please, is that any sex outside of man woman and marriage is not God´s plan. Maybe you can prove that it is. If so I will gladly discuss that with you.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,0),(874,3558,'Travis Mamone','travismamone83@gmail.com','http://www.travismamone.net','69.2.182.113','2012-01-04 15:51:19','2012-01-04 15:51:19','Okay, cool, thanks.  I\'ll tinker with it some.',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','editorial-comment',0,0),(875,3023,'Arbie','arb06@alum.dartmouth.org','','71.62.202.150','2012-01-04 17:26:58','2012-01-05 01:26:58','To wiskers, Austin, Ken, and Marni:  I\'m sure glad so many people know what God intends and what he considers \"normal.\"  Whew!  What would I possibly do with myself if I didn\'t have an enlightened elite to tell me exactly what\'s best for my life?  I wouldn\'t have known that the golden rule wasn\'t a good enough principle upon which to model my own thoughts and actions.  I don\'t know where I\'d be if I didn\'t have them to craft and pass laws that try either to outright prohibit me from being intimate with someone to whom I have committed my whole life and being, or at least to confer upon themselves the right to stick their noses obsessively, authoritatively, and creepily in my bedroom and make me suffer and feel ashamed and stigmatized about whatever I do there with another consenting adult.  What would I do if I didn\'t have all this helpful \"moral\" guidance to gently persuade me that I desperately need to return to the Christian faith?\r\n\r\nWhy, without all of these things, maybe I would have never left the faith in the first place, or at least not have shaken the dust off my feet on the way out.\r\n\r\nI regret coming here and naively hoping that I would encounter arguments different from what I expected (although there were a few comments that inspired gratitude and hope).  I\'ll leave you all to quibbling about what the holy books say about this, that, or other, or what word to use to describe a wedded couple of which you don\'t approve, or how/whether Leviticus is to any degree relevant to our modern society.  I think I\'ll stick to trying to live my life by having a realistic view of human nature and aiming to help and not harm others.  Not because God or a book told me I should, but because it *just makes sense.*  Not because I\'ll get a reward in heaven, but because we all need a real, helping hand when we\'re down, without anything being expected in return.  Because life is tough and short, and the last thing we need is people tying up monstrous burdens to place on other people\'s backs without lifting a finger to help.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(876,3023,'Joe Machuta','joe@rijenterprises.com','http://www.paradigmshift-jmac.blogspot.com','99.189.116.26','2012-01-04 18:19:23','2012-01-05 02:19:23','Wiskers, I don\'t think you read what I said. I said that Jesus and his followers redefined the term/phrase word of God from scripture/Torah to Jesus/gospel. If there is one thing that I have proven by a preponderance of the evidence over two years of blogging it is that Jesus and his first century followers did not refer to scripture as the word of God. My question is this if Jesus and his followers changed the definition as they did, why is it that 2000 years later his followers have bought the Scribe and Pharisee definition. Please check it out at http://www.paradigmshift-jmac.blogspot.com. \r\n\r\nFurther, when the New Testament was written there was a transition period going on where the Old Covenant/Temple and the New Covenant Church were limping along side by side. That changed at the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem.. Jeremiah stated that Leviticus, et. al. was obsolete and the writer of Hebrews quoted that and explained that though it was obsolete is was soon passing. It passed.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',872,0),(877,2318,'Colby Chambers','delosworld74@gmail.com','','76.20.104.237','2012-01-04 22:02:29','2012-01-05 06:02:29','Maybe Nietzsche meant that as truth can be interpreted as \"subjective\" it cannot be absolute...however by using the phrase \"there are no absolute truths\" he does indeed contradict himself. Nicely written as always Jon.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(878,3023,'wiskers','dannywickham@yahoo.es','','85.57.25.67','2012-01-04 23:01:38','2012-01-05 07:01:38','Arbie;  I am not so sure from your comments above that you want to hear anything different from what you have already made your mind up about. Perhaps this is the problem. Stay with the conversation and extract what you can find of good in it and decide later whether this conversation is helpful or not. People have different views. Ours tries to include what we understand as God´s leading in our lives. You seem to be rejecting submission not to us but to what we see as guidance in God´s word. And Arbie, God´s word was sent not just to tell us that we can do anything we like cos God loves us but also to instruct and guide us towards His way of thinking and doing. It is a sincere search for us all and the fact that you don´t feel happy about our ideas is perfectly understandable. Keep questioning and we may all learn more but be sure about this, for those of us who believe in God, His Word is paramount, we may get it wrong or we may get it right but our motives are to learn for ourselves what we should submit to. And in the end the crux of the matter is submission to God or not. That is where the cookie crumbles. I don´t judge anyone for not submitting to God´s Word. It is their personal and private decision but at least can we continue to talk about it? Conviction is of the heart, not just the mind. The mind is coninced and the heart convicted and by love. That´s when you learn to submit. And believe me, noone, Christian or not, can expect to please God if we reject living in the power of His Spirit, sent to us precisely to empower us to live getting victory over the root of sin in our lives. That is the essential message of the Gospel for me. That is my conviction. Blessings.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,0),(879,3471,'Ian','ian_stephenson@hotmail.com','','118.208.222.37','2012-01-05 00:29:23','2012-01-05 08:29:23','Thanks Deana for sharing a snippet of your journey.  I can identify with much of what you wrote.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,0),(880,3023,'Buddy aka Beverly','Buddynet02@att.net','http://MarriageEquality','99.65.145.189','2012-01-05 02:18:44','2012-01-05 10:18:44','Okay, I think I figured out what I\'ve been doing wrong here.  Alise Wright\'s name has been showing up under my posts.  Sorry Alise, I didn\'t mean to do that.  I just wanted to ann another comment about biblical condemnation of same sex relations.  I guess I\'m still a Christian, but I know that as we learn from science, our ideas on many things change.  I\'m thinking that in biblical times there was a concern about the human race surviving and reproduction was the main reason for marriage.  Nowadays we marry for love and other reasons as well, but not necessarily to have children.  Our world is overpopulated and in addition to a lot of people having fertility problems, there does seem to be more homosexuality as well.  Could this be evolutionary nature taking over to correct so that we don\'t overpopulate ourselves out of existence.  Just a thought.\r\n\r\nBuddy aks Beverly',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',863,0),(881,2318,'Warren Aldrich','warrenaldrich@hotmail.com','','71.181.79.6','2012-01-05 04:12:09','2012-01-05 12:12:09','Sad.  When you\'re not being completely f\'in enigmatic, you\'re brilliant.  Ok, even your enigmaticness is brilliant...but I\'m not sure how I know that.  \r\nAnyway, I\'m trying to get you out there.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',870,0),(882,3023,'wiskers','dannywickham@yahoo.es','','85.57.25.67','2012-01-05 06:29:27','2012-01-05 14:29:27','Joe Machuta: I have no doubt that the OT has passed away and none of my thinking is based principally on that although one has to take into account God´s \"weaning off\" period of OT revelation to mankind to then understand the basics of Jesus´teaching. \r\n\r\nI am sure that neither the OT or NT were considered Word of God until much after they had been written but there are indications in the NT that show an acceptance of the Pauline and Peter letters that were already widely accepted at least as testimony to what Jesus taught. So, for you and me in the 21st century, the debate about what is WOG is rather sterile given that most evangelical scholars now accept that the Bible as we know it contains (in its original texts) the revealed word of god and testimony of Jesus, sufficient for our `present and eternal salvation. At the present we are \"saved\" progresivelly from the root of sin through the power of the Holy Spirit (if we continually submit to Him) and eternally we are saved by grace so that we can enjoy Jesus in heaven directly. In my understanding which can be challenged by all means, the NT collection of writings we have today contain enough of Jesus´life and teaching inspired by the Holy Spirit to be enough to go on. No scribes and Pharisees for me, just W.O.G and Holy Spirit. \r\n\r\nI hope this helps a little. I don´t always manage to explain myself correctly and please forgive this.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,0),(883,3023,'Austin','aleikenberry@yahoo.com','','63.240.121.193','2012-01-05 07:33:44','2012-01-05 15:33:44','It is dangerous to say that People redefined words, and therefore, we can do the same. If the Bible is the Word of God, then the meanings intended by the original authors (or speakers if you hold to the theory that many of these were spoken at one time, and written down later) to the original audience. If we are willing to add/change the meanings of words, grammar, etc, then the Word of God changes over time. While that may be what you are intending, it is concerning to me. If the Word of God changes over time, then we end up with the possibility of Scripture saying very different things tomorrow than it did yesterday - Jesus wasn\'t really God (He himself said that he was the son of God and the son of man, so clearly, he was just a man like all of us who are called sons of God), there is no afterlife (we know better now, this was merely a cultural artifact), etc.\r\n\r\nI think you are also mistaken in some of your details. Jesus didn\'t reinterpret scripture to be SOLELY redemptive, but to be leading to the redemptive climax. He Himself said \"I have not come to change the law, but to perfect it\". It\'s a question of highlighting the redemptive nature of God, which only has an effect in the context of a sinful world. The 1st century Christians may have reinterpreted the word of God to apply both scripture and Christ. That\'s not the same as reinterpreting marriage to apply to both heterosexual and homosexual couples (in contradiction to the Bible), or reinterpreting the words that decry homosexuality to apply only to what we currently view as clearly inappropriate homosexual relationships (men and boys or temple prostitution as have been mentioned here). It seems like we are ignoring the judging, holy, awesome God we see in the Old Testament and in Revelation (and Acts - Ananias and Sapphira had an experience with Him) who played out the drama of judgement on His son as a substitutionary sacrifice so that He could eliminate the obstacles that we have built between God and ourselves in favor of the loving self-sacrificial God who in love and mercy accepted this judgement knowing full-well what the cost would be to Himself. We are in danger of ignoring the Father because we like the Son so well. Not only that, we are ignoring the difficulties Jesus raised for his disciples to come to Him (let the dead bury the dead -you must eat my flesh and drink my blood, and it is true flesh and true blood - You will indeed suffer what I will suffer - you must daily pick up your cross and follow me).\r\n\r\nThe Christian walk is a hard one, and will ask something of each one of us that we don\'t want to give.\r\n\r\nAs to whether my hermeneutic is wrong... It\'s entirely possible. Acknowledging that doesn\'t overturn my beliefs. It\'s merely acknowledging the human nature of understanding. We are still responsible to come to the best conclusion that we are capable of. As Saint Anselm said so well, we are [people] of faith seeking understanding. While I might acknowledge my potential wrongness, you must also. If we disagree on a point that is not fundamental to salvation, I\'ll call you brother and we\'ll talk. If we still can\'t come to an agreement, I\'ll call you brother and I\'ll go away praying for greater enlightenment for both of us so that we can continue to love and pursue God in the best way possible. If we disagree on an issue fundamental to salvation, I might not call you brother, but I\'ll still talk to you. If we still don\'t agree, I may call you heretic and walk away praying for greater enlightenment so that we can continue to love and pursue God in the best way possible.\r\n\r\nOn this topic in particular, I think we have a peripheral issue that may affect core issues. The Bible must still be authoritative, or the basis for Faith is overthrown.\r\n\r\nAustin',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; InfoPath.3; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E)','',858,0),(884,3023,'Austin','aleikenberry@yahoo.com','','63.240.121.193','2012-01-05 07:46:56','2012-01-05 15:46:56','Your hermeneutic seems to be driven by your theology. You are assuming the New Covenant replaces the previous covenants, but looking at the OT, each covenant builds upon the previous covenant. We don\'t have to worry about God destroying the Earth with a flood anymore, and we have the proof in the rainbow.\r\n\r\nIf instead, the New Covenant builds upon the previous covenant, then the law reveals our sinfulness, and the new covenant allows a path for redemption from that sinful nature. If Jesus\' followeres did not refer to the scripture as the word of God, that doesn\'t necessarily mean anything... it\'s an argument from silence. They may have been trying to distinguish the climactic revelation of Jesus, they may just have used other words (the law and the prophets, the torah, the law of moses, the writings, the scripture, etc) which were equally important and useful for description. \r\n\r\nThe idea of the OT covenants and the New Covenant existing side-by-side until the destruction of the temple is interesting and attractive, but to imply that replacement theology allows for the removal of the law itself (or the condemnation from disobedience) contradicts many passages of scripture (including Hebrews).\r\n\r\nI agree that we tend to idolize the Bible over God, and we should seek to correct that as the Bible is the guidebook to salvation, not the means of salvation. We can also talk about replacement theology, but that\'s peripheral to the discussion of Gay/Equal marriage.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; InfoPath.3; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E)','',876,0),(885,3023,'Austin','aleikenberry@yahoo.com','','63.240.121.193','2012-01-05 08:01:33','2012-01-05 16:01:33','I find it interesting Arbie that you describe our comments as dictating to you. This is the first time that I\'ve been called elitist, thank you. I\'m not arguing against homosexuality, or even against the state recognizing homosexual unions to the same degree that it recognizes heterosexual unions. Nor am I saying that because (I assume) you are homosexual, you are any more sinful that myself (who is heterosexual). I\'ll admit that I am a liar, I am a hater, I am a theif, an idolator, I have been, and probably still am a sexual sinner. I could probably agree with Paul that I am the foremost of sinners, but that is because I recognize these things as sin.\r\n\r\nI am not saying you have to change your lifestyle to be Christian, or that you should desire Christ because of your sexual identity, or even that your identity (sexually or otherwise) needs to change UNLESS you are not recognizing yourself as a sinner in need of the grace God provides. My concerns have to do much more with Scripture, grace, and life.\r\n\r\nIf I\'m offending you because I am saying that the Bible says homosexuality is a sin, then it\'s a failure to recognize sin that offensive, or a failure to accept the Bible as having the authority to identify sin, or a belief that my interpretation is so far off that I\'m offending the truth by proclaiming it to be so. If it\'s the last, then let\'s talk about it. If it\'s the first 2, I\'m almost certainly not going to change my mind after having spent the last 10 years in theological study to come to that understanding. If the Bible isn\'t the authority, then I have no hope of salvation, and I have no reason to believe that God is, God is personal, God is loving, or that there\'s a heaven. \r\n\r\nI absolutely agree that we all need a helping hand, but we can\'t give it to each other. That\'s the story of the prophets to me. Trying to help people live rightly, and failing miserably. God is the only one who can help us, and I pray that he does. I have no intent to pile burdens on others, and I would hope that I help, although I am certain that I do not help as much as I could.\r\n\r\nI may be wrong, and I\'ll acknowledge that as a possibility, but God helps us wherever we find ourselves. If we have to be perfect then only God is in heaven, and we\'re all going to hell. If he comes where we are to help us where we are, then we have hope. But all that comes from the Bible.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; InfoPath.3; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E)','',875,0),(886,3533,'Liz','lizdyer@verizon.net','http://gracerules.wordpress.com/','63.240.122.129','2012-01-05 08:09:23','2012-01-05 16:09:23','Thanks for the post - I believe in living authentically even when we have to struggle past the cultural pressures to do it!  I can relate to a lot of what you said as I am also a 57 year old woman.  I do color my hair and wear light makeup but that has nothing to do with my age - that is just what I have always done as an adult and I do it for the same reason you said you wear the lingerie ... \"I like the way it makes me feel\" ... but I will admit that I get frustrated with some of my aging family and friends when they seem so against current stuff - whether it is music or tech or politics or religion or movies or books.  Some of them seem to think that anything that young people think or anything that is current or new is inferior or silly or maybe even bad. I don\'t think that getting older means we can\'t also be interested in and enjoy what is current.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(887,2436,'Liz','lizdyer@verizon.net','http://gracerules.wordpress.com/','63.240.122.129','2012-01-05 08:37:45','2012-01-05 16:37:45','As I grow older and as men and women get older I see less and less difference in the male and female genders ...  that leads me to think that maybe most of the differences come from cultural biases.  For example - I used to think that my husband was very different than I am but over the years as we have continued to reveal ourselves to one another the truth is that at the core of ourselves we are very much alike and a lot of what we were \"being\" for so many years came from what we were taught we should be because of our gender.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(888,2318,'Jonathan Crouch','jmcrouch@gmail.com','','99.189.168.178','2012-01-05 08:39:12','2012-01-05 16:39:12','I follow the Inner Path the allowing Truth to emerge as obstacles are exposed as illusions. One of the main obstacles is the mind. \"It is the mind that tells you that the mind is there.\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',881,24),(889,2508,'Austin','aleikenberry@yahoo.com','','63.240.121.193','2012-01-05 08:39:17','2012-01-05 16:39:17','Well, I know that I am very late in commenting on this, but I see a distinct lack of men commenting and I would like to add my own 2 cents here.\r\n\r\nI love this article because it states very well what I have tried to inculcate in my own marriage (and to a lesser extent the larger culture). It is very difficult, and very rewarding. However, I think the gender roles still have a part to play in marriages and in the church. My wife and I by and large operate in this manner, although there are of course times when one or the other (or both) of us fail to live up to this ideal. However, I have found the defined gender roles to be useful. In the home, there has been exactly one time in the last 10 years when I believed that I knew what God wanted for us in a situation and my wife was \"uncertain.\" Because of her uncertainty, I went back and prayed for an additional 3 months, and I came only under a greater conviction, a greater certainty. I shared this with her and (I believe appropriately), she said, I still don\'t know. In further discussion, I said, this is one I\'m going to put my foot down on, and I started forward, still praying that God would make things clearer. In the end, God was gracious to remove the problem, so that it ended up not being only my decision. I still give thanks for that.\r\n\r\nThis is where I think there is the benefit - In the case of indecision/lack of agreement, there still needs to be a decision made (in some cases). That\'s why government by consensus fails. We aren\'t always going to be on the same page, and when we aren\'t, how do we move forward? I have always viewed this as the reason for the \"man is the head of the household.\" When things need to move forward and because of the fallen state of mankind, we still have that capacity. As a man, this terifies me, and I struggle to minimize or eliminate the times when this has to be applied. I haven\'t been able to completely eliminate it, but clearly minimizing has been somewhat effective.\r\n\r\nIn the Church, the same situation applies, although I do not  believe that it is a gender role. Regardless of who the leader is in the church, they should have the same fear, and the same responsibility. Women in the pulpit are not fundamentally different from men in the pulpit. Where I get completely stuck is understanding how the marital roles would play out if the husband were in the church his wife was the pastor of, but fundamentally disagreed (after the serious consideration and prayer that should occur) with her on some question that directly affected both the church and his family.\r\n\r\nAnyway, I thought I\'d chime in and provide a male voice in fundamental agreement.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; InfoPath.3; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E)','',0,0),(890,2318,'Jonathan Crouch','jmcrouch@gmail.com','','99.189.168.178','2012-01-05 08:42:35','2012-01-05 16:42:35','Thank you Colby. The brilliant thing about the Absolute is that it is not arbitrary or relative. Grace gives Truth permission to shift our subjective experiences into alignment with the nature of Divinity.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',877,24),(891,3533,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-01-05 08:48:02','2012-01-05 16:48:02','I absolutely agree with you, Liz.  A common thing that happens with older people is they might authentically live as who they are, but they fail to grow and recognize significance in current things.  My mother died two years at age 89, and she still lived in the 1950\'s.  However, my dad, who is 90 today, keeps current on learning new computer programs, and visits my comtemporary church when the grandchildren are in town.  He has found a balance between what he likes - which includes current things - and still loving Big Band music, for example, and he\'s active in World War II reunions.\r\n\r\nI choose to respect middle-aged - older people\'s opinions, even if they don\'t respect mine.  Personally, I wish, for their sakes, that my peers didn\'t shut themselves off from current things, but that\'s their choice, just like my choice is an integration from what I love of my past and what I love of the present.  Many of them don\'t understand how I can love Bach, Led Zepplin, and Adele all at the same time.  Well, I do.\r\n\r\nI celebrate that you both accept and recognize the assets that come with age, and that at the same time you enjoy the delights of current events.  Rock on, friend!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',886,35),(892,3372,'Liz','lizdyer@verizon.net','http://gracerules.wordpress.com/','63.240.122.129','2012-01-05 08:48:21','2012-01-05 16:48:21','I\'m speechless.  This is powerful and something I think we need to examine and consider.  Right now I can\'t move past dealing with being angry at the church and Christians because of the way we have historically glossed over stuff like this.  I am going to share this on Facebook.  Thanks!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(893,3281,'Jonathan Crouch','jmcrouch@gmail.com','','99.189.168.178','2012-01-05 09:00:20','2012-01-05 17:00:20','A Truth in the greek mindset of the time of Christ is the same word for Reality. Used when Jesus said, \"You shall know the Truth, and the Truth shall set you free.\" Truth is subjective, therefore viewed differently from people\'s perceptions. The Truth Jesus spoke of is the state experienced when one gives up trying to right the wrongs of the world. One no longer needs \"beliefs\" to feel secure, one is secure because one has experienced The Presence of God as complete security. Tebow is pointing to something, the problem is everyone is looking at Tebow.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',0,24),(894,3281,'Marni Arnold','marni@relevantbrokenness.com','http://relevantbrokenness.com','98.24.78.34','2012-01-05 09:25:07','2012-01-05 17:25:07','You honestly pinned it well with this, \"...the problem is everyone is looking at Tebow.\"\r\n\r\nThis alone, therein, lies a big problem. The distortions of people\'s lenses is. \r\n\r\nBut while Tebow reveals these public displays of pointing to God through his life, I just have to wonder lately...how could he be doing it differently to truly penetrate those distortions two \"the truth\" (Christ) is truly seen...and in turn, He penetrates hearts to transform them? Be ause this far...his efforts seem to be \"falling on deaf\" ears too much? Or...does he need to adjust his methods and simply stay the course and leave it in everyone else\'s court to handle the responsibility to have them make the choice to put on some corrective lenses?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,0),(895,3281,'Marni Arnold','marni@relevantbrokenness.com','http://relevantbrokenness.com','98.24.78.34','2012-01-05 09:26:42','2012-01-05 17:26:42','Pardon my typos...I am on my iPad and it autocorrects on a whim and I miss these at typos times.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',894,0),(896,3023,'brian','bkwilless@yahoo.com','','109.242.122.13','2012-01-05 09:27:34','2012-01-05 17:27:34','I am not understanding this legal ramifications point. \r\n\r\nSo we should not ever legislate morality? But isn’t defining what is criminal an issue of morals in general? Where does this lead? Where does this end? So when I say murder is wrong are you going to call me religious?\r\n\r\n What about prostitution? Like Nevada should it be legal in all states. Then there are drugs, polygamy, and ultimately bestiality (I mean how can an animal ever give communicative consent and yet at my friends house her dog tries to hump my boots each time I am there – is that consent? Should I have at it. Am I negligent to the dogs needs? [Rather I kick her away]).\r\n\r\nNow drugs and prostitution in some instances benefit from it being illegal - for it keeps prices high. Honestly I have seen the destructiveness of polygamy it lessens the relationships and causes all kinds of neglect and abuse throughout the family. I have not seen anything by my own eyes in a homosexual relationship so I cannot speak to its destructiveness. But where does it end?\r\n\r\nIf you don’t grant these and fight for these at the same time as “equal marriage” are not biased? Are you not being selfish for wanting only what you want?\r\n\r\nIt seems to me (I am not an educated man or smart) that this is the same type of logic the Nazis used for killing gays, Jews, cripples, etc.! “We were just following our law” they would say; and in order to defend that killing GAYS was wrong the allied attorneys appealed to Natural moral law.\r\n\r\nJust because it is legal or illegal don’t make it write. The majority may rule but that does not mean the majority is not wrong.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',825,0),(897,3023,'Joe Machuta','joe@rijenterprises.com','http://www.paradigmshift-jmac.blogspot.com','99.189.116.26','2012-01-05 09:38:27','2012-01-05 17:38:27','To Austin,\r\nI am answering outside of the actual thread because I don\'t like the narrow indent that results from several replies. Actually, my hermeneutic is driven by my presuppositions as is everyone\'s.  My theology is informed by my hermeneutic not the reverse. \r\n\r\nAgain, Jesus and his followers ... not I... redefined the term word of God. (Maybe that should be addressed to Whiskers) Further, Paul stated that anything not done by faith is sin (Rom 14:23.) One could conclude then, that a loving, monogamous same sex relationship from faith would not be sin.\r\n\r\nI see more clearly where you are coming from and I will admit that it is not as judgmental as I had thought. Having said that, Christ did away with sin. To one of faith in Christ there is no sin. That is the state of the new covenant. Now, practically, does my anger, jealousy, lust or any other such sinful practice affect me and others? Of course. However, if one by faith concentrates on their sinless status... it automatically produces peace with God, love for God and love for God is the catalyst for our transformed living. That is not affected by what we do with faith or who we are partners with. \r\n\r\nThere is no room in the new covenant for a legal mentality about scripture. It is not a rule book that makes one right with God. Using the scripture to condemn all homosexuals is legalistic and there is no way around it. The law of the spirit of life which is the law of the New Covenant does not condemn. Evangelicals use the law unlawfully.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,0),(898,3023,'Marni Arnold','marni@relevantbrokenness.com','http://relevantbrokenness.com','98.24.78.34','2012-01-05 09:50:37','2012-01-05 17:50:37','This is where the detachment comes in...there is truly always a different lens in which to utilize to read scripture. I understand where you are coming from, Alise...I do. I used to actually believe as you do now. I have been an encouraging guest at a family member\'s union many years ago (when I wasn\'t a Christian, however)...and didn\'t understand how God wouldn\'t condone a loving union between same gender couples when He honors the man/woman union. Because love is love, right? No. It\'s not. Love is objective (Christ), not subjective (prone to different lenses being use to bring about various versions of truth).\r\n\r\nThis all goes well beyond just on the surface here that we don\'t find specfic areas of scripture to address this...but we\'re given enough examples of how He responds when human beings engage in same sex unions...and it isn\'t the kindest of responses. This leads me to believe (based on scripture) that He looks upon sex and intimacy between humans in a very holy manner...and He created man to be with woman and woman to be with man to give us an image (an example) of the relationship we are to have with Him, and it doesn\'t involve man being with man or woman being with woman.\r\n\r\nTo address  the Pagan worship that you reference as well...while it did occur frequently in scripture (the two hand in hand)...these are two very separate sins being addressed. Therefore, no...it isn\'t any greater of a sin than another. Many Christians have this all twisted unfortunately...and it is time it needs to be addresssed in such a manner. But I can\'t blame many for being upset, because it does violate God\'s example of relationship; however, how it is being addressed is far from appropriate in my opinion. For it\'s magnifying one sin to be greater than another...when in reality it is no greater than any other.\r\n\r\nThere is a fine line being played with here when eveangelicals getting into the mox politicall. One side is addressing the holiness of the scriptures, and one is keeping it some kind of balance to make it all digestible to the world. The truth is...it doesn\'t mesh. So we need to make a choice...Him or this world. Plain and simple. Not an easy choice...for this world makes it confusing...but it is one we need to make as Christians. But despite the choices we make on the level of which side we choose to be on...we really should respect one another and value others viewpoints.\r\n\r\nI value and appriciate yours and others in opposition to mine...for they are valid. They bring up very vital points...and this is all a journey. And the journey should prompt us to learn from one another. This however never means my viewpoints are going to change another\'s...or another\'s will change mine. That should never be the agenda on either side, for the only one who should always be changing us is Jesus...no one else.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',825,0),(899,3281,'Jonathan Crouch','jmcrouch@gmail.com','','99.27.203.182','2012-01-05 10:00:59','2012-01-05 18:00:59','Tebow does not need to do it differently. He is doing it from what he is. The only way that would change is if what he is changes. Look at his upbringing and what he was told was important. From that he displays the Truth as he knows it. The people who do not like Tebow simply put, do not like themselves. It is one thing to disagree with an expression, another to attack a person.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',894,24),(900,3501,'Marni Arnold','marni@relevantbrokenness.com','http:/relevantbrokenness.com','98.24.78.34','2012-01-05 10:28:23','2012-01-05 18:28:23','Ray...what a refreshing article! Refreshing in that is relates such a \"dirty\" truth that we all need to be constantly aware of to address it appropriately! I especially appreciated your takeaway here,\r\n\r\n\"Let us rise together to walk with those who need restoration, because one day it may be one of us who needs the grace of the community.\"\r\n\r\nPastors...leaders...new believers...all Christians alike need this encouragement, because at one time or another, we all break.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/9A405','',0,0),(901,3501,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.28.91','2012-01-05 10:32:27','2012-01-05 18:32:27','Thanks, Marni. I used to be one who was harshly judgmental of sin. I had zero tolerance of it when I was a pastor. Then suddenly, I found myself in a place where I needed grace and restoration. I had only two close friends left in the world and of course, Christ, who never turned his back on me.\r\n\r\nIt was during that time that I learned what compassion really was.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',900,12),(902,3023,'Lucas','lucasmkramer@gmail.com','','131.212.12.111','2012-01-05 10:33:49','2012-01-05 18:33:49','Another interesting and applicable and referenced article.  \r\n\r\nhttp://www.christianity-revealed.com/cr/files/whensamesexmarriagewasachristianrite.html',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(903,3023,'Ellen','ellenmurphy99@gmail.com','','173.57.166.72','2012-01-05 10:33:49','2012-01-05 18:33:49','We live in a culture that has a real problem with sexuality. Sinful sexual practices abound from things that nearly everyone can agree is wrong to things that some people won\'t agree is sinful.\r\n- adultery, sex with someone else\'s spouse\r\n- sex outside of a lifelong commitment \r\n- pornography\r\n- sexual slavery\r\n- vivid depictions of a sex act in non-pornographic movies\r\n- stripping, exotic dancing\r\n- prostitution\r\n- homosexual sex\r\n- furries\r\n- fetishes\r\n\r\nSex is a beautiful and powerful drive with the primary biological purpose of propagating the species. Like any drive for a good thing, it can be twisted into something bad or simply made into something less than it could be at its best. Homosexual practice misses out on all the great things that the opposite sex has to offer. No matter how feminine a man nor how butch a woman, same sex pairing misses out on the union of male and female that makes a complete whole. The ideal in sexual expression is the life-giving, love sharing union of a man and a woman who know only each other for their entire lives. Any homosexual union, no matter how committed, falls short of this ideal. Nearly all heterosexual unions will fall short of the ideal. However, any heterosexual union has a greater chance of achieving the ideal because it starts out with both different pieces that are made in the image of God.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.9) Gecko/20100824 Firefox/3.6.9 ( .NET CLR 3.5.30729)','',0,0),(904,2508,'Kristen','kristenrosser@hotmail.com','http://krwordgazer.blogspot.com','75.145.77.153','2012-01-05 11:01:47','2012-01-05 19:01:47','Austin, I don\'t see that the Bible gives a husband a \"trump card\" to get his own way-- though I appreciate that, since you believe it does give you one, you exercise it with \"fear.\"  That said, in the situation you describe, I think my husband and I would have handled it just as you did-- except that we wouldn\'t have said it was because he was the male; rather that it was because he was the one who believed he had a clear leading from the Holy Spirit.  Conversely, if I had been the one with a clear leading from the Holy Spirit, and my husband was uncertain, he would have gone along with me, trusting my relationship with God as I trust his.  We believe that is what \"submit to one another\" in Eph. 5:21 is all about.\r\n\r\nIf we had a situation (which has never arisen) where I felt strongly led in one direction and he felt strongly led in the opposite (not just uncertain), then we would pray some more and not act until we were sure why we felt so differently and what could be done about it.  We simply don\'t believe one spouse has a God-given right to override the other, however carefully and fearfully.   However, when a couple does believe the husband has that right, it\'s wonderful when he is as careful as you are.  When he is not, the wife is up a creek without a paddle.  Many wives find themselves in this situation when a husband is not mature enough to handle the power the church tells the wife she is required by God to give him.   \r\n\r\nI think the Holy Spirit, through Paul, was leading first-century Christian marriages in the direction of empowering wives who had been little more than slaves, to be raised up to be beside their husbands.  We misunderstand that now because our marriages start out looking very different.  We have to be careful not to go backwards towards that first-century norm, thinking that that culture is endorsed by God simply because it\'s the culture first-century Christians had to live with. \r\n\r\nWith regards to church leadership, the New Testament shows that a plurality of leaders was the norm in the early church, so I don\'t think it\'s a good idea to have one sole person, man or woman, leading the congregation.  In short, I think leadership by consensus is not only <i>not</i> inherently a failure, but is anticipated and expected (under the leadership of the Holy Spirit) by the NT, and there\'s no reason why one person should be able to impose his or her will over the whole congregation. \r\n\r\n However, if a church decision were going to be made that affected one church leader\'s family, and not any other family in the church, I think it becomes a family matter and not a church matter and is for the affected family to decide.  If it affects all families in the church, then the church leaders should take that into consideration but not allow one family more say than another in the congregation just because they\'re the family of a church leader.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1; Trident/4.0; GTB7.2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E)','',0,0),(905,3023,'Austin','aleikenberry@yahoo.com','','63.240.121.193','2012-01-05 11:25:15','2012-01-05 19:25:15','I agree absolutely that using the scripture to condemn all homosexuals is legalistic and against the spirit of life. But this doesn\'t necessarily mean that condemning homosexual activity or gay marriage is likewise legalistic.\r\n\r\nThe New Covenant says not that we are sinless, but that when we acknowledge our sins, repent, and confess, that we are deemed as not having sin AND that we are no longer slaves to our sin. If we were perfectly repentant, we would be sinless, but then we would be perfect in some way anyway, so kind of a sidestep :). Further, the grace that Jesus revealed, and is made more explicit in the NT eschatology, is that we can be/have been reconciled with God - that the effective barrier of sin has been removed. This is one area where I do and probably always will call \"MYSTERY\" - meaning I can\'t explain it. That when we accept the call of Christianity, we are at once eternally perfected, and temporally still flawed. Our eternal state is more of less set (I don\'t really want to go down the once save, always saved route - I think there are exceptions but it would be a serious rabbit trail), but we still have to live out the temporal world and the consequences of a fallen state in that world. I am still a sinner from my own perspective, and that is freeing. When seeing the eternal (which is a part of the struggle), I am not a sinner, and that is awesome, but I\'m still temporal and still flawed.\r\n\r\nThe law is what reveals to us our sinfulness, the grace of Jesus is that that sinfulness no longer has an eternal consequence. The new covenant doesn\'t discard the law, or it\'s imputation of wrong, but rather allows for that wrong to be passed on. The problem is that when we actively refuse to accept that there is something wrong, when we deny that we are in sin, or when we deny that something is sin that the law reveals as sinful. Then we are unwilling to release that, and have to deal with the consequences of that sin. We can\'t ignore the law simply because we don\'t like it, but we can put aside the death sin brings because God has overwritten that consequence and allowed us to attain the life He desires.\r\n\r\nI would say that there is room for a legal mentality ONLY to convince ourselves and each other of our first and ongoing need for salvation, not to conemn anyone out of hand. If I am no longer a sinner because of Jesus prior intervention then what do I do with my ongoing struggle with sin - that part of me that, as Paul says \"does what I do not want to do\"?\r\n\r\nI think the only way to make sense of the whole issue is to say that I am a sinner at the same time I am redeemed. I can not explain it any more than that, which is why I call \"MYSTERY\".',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; InfoPath.3; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E)','',897,0),(906,3281,'Marni Arnold','marni@relevantbrokenness.com','http://relevantbrokenness.com','98.24.78.34','2012-01-05 11:57:48','2012-01-05 19:57:48','\"The people who do not like Tebow simply put, do not like themselves.\"\r\n\r\nExcellent insight! Something I have heard in snippets throughout my life...but it honestly hasn\'t sunk in. I believe I need to really need to immerse myself in this understanding...because this truly reveals the whole aspect I blog from on my own blog...brokenness. When something rubs up against us that is counter to ourselves...a brokenness (a wound) is revealed that needs addressing and healing.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',899,0),(907,2436,'Kristen','kristenrosser@hotmail.com','http://krwordgazer.blogspot.com','75.145.77.153','2012-01-05 12:22:42','2012-01-05 20:22:42','Coming to this conversation late-- but I can hear your respectful, honoring voice, Jonathan, and I think part of the pushbacks are a result of miscommunication.  When you said, \"I don\'t want women to be equal in the traditional sense,\" the context in which you wrote that leads me to believe you meant, \"I don\'t want women and men to be exactly alike or for women to have to act like men to get ahead in this world or in the church.\"  But \"alike\" and \"equal\" are two different things, and I, too, found myself bristling at the idea that you don\'t want women to be \"equal\"--  that is, to have the same rights and opportunities that men have.  However, I don\'t think that\'s what you meant. \r\n\r\nI agree that there are no good qualities of character that are \"pink\" or \"blue\" -- for Jesus embodied all the virtues, including strength and nurturing, assertiveness and gentleness, and we are all called to imitate Him.  The differences between men and women seem to me to be related to our biology.  Men can be fathers but not mothers; women can be mothers but not fathers; women have more estrogen and men have more testosterone-- all of which leads to different experiences of, and ways of approaching, the world.  But Christianity is not about the spiritual only.  It is a faith that considers the physical to be good, and our physical bodies are gendered.   So we do have differences and should celebrate them.  We are not all alike and should not try to be-- but it is the stereotypes of \"gender roles\" that really try to make us all alike (all the women one way, all the men another), not the notion of true equality in which we can all be who we are, with our individual differences, and yet have the same powers, rights and opportunities.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1; Trident/4.0; GTB7.2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E)','',0,0),(908,3501,'Michael Levitt','levitt.mike@gmail.com','http://levittmike.com','38.99.140.226','2012-01-05 12:30:26','2012-01-05 20:30:26','This is why I\'m so passionate about your book, Ray.  We are called to accept and give grace to others.  We all fall short, and stumble.  No one should have to go through their struggles alone, nor be cast aside.  Thankfully, Jesus hasn\'t  (and won\'t) cast us all aside.\r\n\r\nBlessings!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(909,3023,'Austin','aleikenberry@yahoo.com','','63.240.121.193','2012-01-05 12:43:55','2012-01-05 20:43:55','To be fair, Boswell\'s hypothesis (the basis for this article) has been repeatedly repudiated, and the historical basis for these saints is questionable (as no evidence of them or their activities exists for more than a hundred years after their deaths). Regardless, the precise nature of their relationship is not known and not even really indicated until 600+ years after their death. Also, the Vatican\'s position should be explored using their documentation rather than the potentially aberrent behavior of priests in the Catholic church. \r\n\r\nThis does bring up interesting ideas though, as it seems at least possible if not likely that there were groups of Christian leaders who have been debating this for millinea. At the very least we join in the conversation. I have not been able to find any of these documents online and I don\'t have access to the libraries that are likely to hold them. I would be very interested in finding the documents themselves if you know where they can be found.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; InfoPath.3; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E)','',902,0),(910,3501,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.28.91','2012-01-05 12:51:50','2012-01-05 20:51:50','Thanks Mike. We know that with Christ we are never alone. But He has also given us the gift of the church so that we might walk together in our weakness.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,12),(911,3023,'wiskers','dannywickham@yahoo.es','','85.57.25.67','2012-01-05 13:55:37','2012-01-05 21:55:37','Ellen: Thankyou for that and agreed fully. Sin distorts, if sin is the norm then it gets harder to refute. The Word of God points us in the right direction. Biology confirms the uniqueness and suitability of male/female reproductive and pleasure organs. Paul´s letter to the Roman church clearly spells out a series of results of the fallen nature. Amongst them, not exclusively, is the opposites of heterosexual relationships. I take the NT as Word of God. Its difficult for me to extract from what I read any indication that anything outside of matrimonial sexual relationships are God´s plan for us, especially when we are given the best tool ever to defeat our fallen nature as I have mentioned before. \r\n\r\nIf anyone can find for me any reference in the Bible which points toward a God approved sexual relationship outside of marriage please let me know. i´ve studied the Bible most of my life now and new things strike you each time that you didn´t see before. Will those in favour of same sex partnerships please show me where they get biblical approval for it? Someone mentioned Sola Scriptura as being a little narrow. Its an interesting theory. What other sources have we got that teach us about God or reveal His will for our lives? He is the Creator and therefore I reckon we do well to listen to everything that reveals Him to us. \r\n\r\nThis is a very stimulating blog, thankyou everyone!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,0),(912,2436,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.5.248.78','2012-01-05 14:52:23','2012-01-05 22:52:23','Thank you Kristen.  You have heard my heart.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',907,1),(913,2624,'wayne rumsby','wayne@rumsby.ca','','99.231.82.159','2012-01-06 05:06:09','2012-01-06 13:06:09','I would just like to add, that there are many paths in christianity that don\'t lead to God either. It is my humble opinion that all religions are just attempts to construct our own towers that reach toward God. Rob Bell calls it Brickianity. The Good News is, He doesn\'t live in the tower. Won\'t we all be shocked when we get to the gate, and find a fat guy sitting lotus and saying, \"Welcome, my name is Jesus, I am the gate, I\'ve been dying to see you.\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,0),(914,3533,'wayne rumsby','wayne@rumsby.ca','','99.231.82.159','2012-01-06 05:46:13','2012-01-06 13:46:13','The first 40ish years of life is like the climb phase of a roller coaster, then it\'s over the top and the fun begins. I\'m 53 and so happy to be in a phase of life that is more about who I am, rather than who I\'m going to be. \r\n\r\nGuys may not have to contend with the makeup thing, but we have our trappings too, we\'re all about toys and power.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,0),(915,3471,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','68.73.44.130','2012-01-06 08:01:16','2012-01-06 16:01:16','John,\r\n\r\nI don\'t think I quite understand what mean, though I would love to hear you elaborate on this. I\'ll pop over to your website and send you an email!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',865,38),(916,3471,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','68.73.44.130','2012-01-06 08:02:07','2012-01-06 16:02:07','Thanks, Ian! And thanks for stopping by. The best part about opening up and sharing your journey is finding that I might not be as alone as I imagine myself to be. I\'m glad you can relate!\r\n\r\nDeanna',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',879,38),(917,3471,'John Ptacek','ptaceks@hotmail.com','http://www.johnptacek.com','207.250.200.131','2012-01-06 10:19:52','2012-01-06 18:19:52','Deanna, if we can agree that God and nature are interchangeable, then I understand your point. Each is a term we reach for to describe the indescribable. However the God that many hold dear is one that punishes, one that sends people to hell, etc. This is not the God I refer to. This is a God created by man, a complete illusion. The God I refer to is the source of all things natural, a life force not a moody person with an agenda. The philosopher baruch Spinoza put it nicely when he said: \"Nature is everything. There is mass, energy, atoms, molecules, life, thought, people, societies, galaxies and perhaps multiple universes (pure speculation). But there is nothing outside nature, including spiritual visions and other phenomena we don\'t yet understand. If they exist, they are part of nature.\" If you do stumble onto my site and read the essay filed under CHOICE, I go deeper into this concept. It has cocked a lot of heads, and I would be interested in your feedback.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E; InfoPath.2)','',915,0),(918,3533,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-01-06 13:09:28','2012-01-06 21:09:28','\"What you have and do is who you are, and indicates what you are worth.\"  God have mercy....who made these \"rules\" anyway?  Hooray for men like you, Wayne, who don\'t play the game when the game is unhealthy.  I\'m glad you responded.  Love your last sentence.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',914,35),(919,440,'Kevin Gonzaga','kglethean@gmail.com','http://speakfaithfully.wordpress.com','65.118.138.127','2012-01-06 14:35:35','2012-01-06 22:35:35','jeremyers,\r\n\r\nI can relate to a lot of what you said.  There have been many times where I felt certain passages of scripture were bold faced lies because of my personal experience or what was going on in the wider world.  For example, when Jesus talks about bringing life and life to the fullest, I had a hard time reconciling that with a Jesus who would allow people to be sexually assaulted or for my own painful descents into depression.\r\n\r\nThat being said I think you are ultimately right in that many times it is how we use the Bible that is more the issue.  I am so tired of people using \"verse-bites\" of the Bible to support their own agenda and attack other people, usually other followers of Jesus when read in context, or when the Bible is read as a whole, these are usually not justified.\r\n\r\nAt the end of the day I think we need to wrestle with the whole Bible, even when parts of the Bible are difficult to accept or difficult to reconcile with our experiences of life, but we should never use the Bible as a weapon or it (or faith in general) as a way to control people and stay in power.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',0,124),(920,440,'Marni Arnold','marni@relevantbrokenness.com','http://relevantbrokenness.com','98.24.78.34','2012-01-06 18:07:00','2012-01-07 02:07:00','I have few words...but those few words are...\r\n\r\nI agree. I relate.\r\n\r\nThank you for this!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,0),(921,440,'Jeremy Myers','jmyers@tillhecomes.org','http://www.tillhecomes.org','24.47.173.38','2012-01-06 20:33:37','2012-01-07 04:33:37','Kevin, \r\n\r\nYes, we need to wrestle with the whole Bible, even (and especially) the difficult parts. The brightest gems lie under the hardest surfaces. So keep digging!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',919,0),(922,440,'Jeremy Myers','jmyers@tillhecomes.org','http://www.tillhecomes.org','24.47.173.38','2012-01-06 20:34:19','2012-01-07 04:34:19','Thanks Marni, \r\n\r\nAnd thanks for sharing this post on Facebook also!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',920,0),(923,2624,'Bronwen','bronwen.henry@newchurch.org','','64.134.241.7','2012-01-07 07:25:55','2012-01-07 15:25:55','A great reminder, that communicated truth and made me smile. Thanks Wayne.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',913,0),(924,3529,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.5.248.78','2012-01-07 09:10:39','2012-01-07 09:10:39','This went out today.',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','editorial-comment',0,0),(925,3562,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.5.248.78','2012-01-07 09:25:50','2012-01-07 09:25:50','Amy, I love your posts, but this one seems angry.  I don\'t want you to take out the anger, but instead provide better context.  The book/movie came out several years ago, so why bring this out now.  What was the context that spurned you to write about this now. It makes better sense with that story, and fleshes it out.',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','editorial-comment',0,0),(926,3529,'Cody Stauffer','staucody72@gmail.com','http://wearebecoming.org','75.167.151.148','2012-01-07 09:39:23','2012-01-07 17:39:23','Morgan, this is a terrific, succinct distillation of these questions. Well done. I notice your author description gives a little bit away about which of each of these stances you lean toward. :)\r\n\r\nQuestions are far more engaging than debates and propositions, and these questions are exactly the questions I have asked and been asked this past year.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,17),(927,3665,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.5.248.78','2012-01-07 09:44:06','2012-01-07 09:44:06','These go out the 10th-12th.',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','editorial-comment',0,0),(928,3641,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.5.248.78','2012-01-07 09:58:44','2012-01-07 09:58:44','Jonathan, I love this post, but it needs a little more setup to connect the reader to the video.  Add an opening paragraph that really states the connect and even frustration.',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','editorial-comment',0,0),(929,3641,'Jonathan Crouch','jmcrouch@gmail.com','','99.35.131.154','2012-01-07 10:42:17','2012-01-07 10:42:17','Hope what I added gives the clarity needed. Thanks for refining.',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','editorial-comment',0,0),(930,3529,'Morgan Guyton','maguyton@gmail.com','http://morganguyton.wordpress.com','173.73.75.39','2012-01-07 12:05:15','2012-01-07 20:05:15','Yeah I\'m a Wesleyan and the way I framed the questions is probably reflective of my Wesleyan bias as well. Thanks.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',926,0),(931,2436,'Sarah','sarahboote@hotmail.com','','108.2.141.102','2012-01-07 13:46:25','2012-01-07 21:46:25','I reacted to two phrases: \"the fathers of the faith were male\"... yes, and the mothers of the faith were female, and there were many of them.  Also, \"Jesus chose men to be the twelve\" yes, and the women were right there along with them from the beginning. Here is where I suspect the writers have deliberately chosen to overlook the role of women in the gospels and the early church, either because it was unfathomable to them, or on purpose to uphold the societal norms of their culture..',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_8) AppleWebKit/534.50.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.6 Safari/533.22.3','',0,0),(932,3529,'Kristen','kristenrosser@hotmail.com','http://krwordgazer.blogspot.com','97.125.27.44','2012-01-07 15:33:24','2012-01-07 23:33:24','Thank you for making us think-- and for consolidating the issues to make them easier to think about.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1; Trident/4.0; FunWebProducts; GTB7.2; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; eMusic DLM/4; SpamBlockerUtility 4.8.4; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; BRI/2)','',0,0),(933,3501,'Travis Klassen','travklassen@me.com','http://churchburned.com','96.53.86.134','2012-01-07 17:30:44','2012-01-08 01:30:44','Ray-thanks for this article. Your book is at the top of my must read list!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,0),(934,3290,'Morgan Guyton','maguyton@gmail.com','http://morganguyton.wordpress.com','173.73.75.39','2012-01-07 20:08:52','2012-01-08 04:08:52','Honest question: Are millennials really leaving church or is this only true on the mainline side of things? I guess it\'s hard for me to believe that, because I see enormous \"Bible\" churches under construction everywhere I look. People in postmodernity starve for community. I worry more that millennials are going to end up in ginormous churches with bad theology that have \"strong, successful singles programs.\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,57),(937,3529,'Morgan Guyton','maguyton@gmail.com','http://morganguyton.wordpress.com','70.167.242.166','2012-01-08 09:37:45','2012-01-08 17:37:45','Thanks for your responses, Bram. I\'m recognizing that there\'s a particular kind of conversation that is driving the way I\'m framing these questions. Holiness is of course more than just \"intolerable.\" It\'s also awe-inspiring, beautiful, wonderful, etc. In the context of describing hell as a product of God\'s holiness, the question would be whether God cannot tolerate sin or sin cannot tolerate God. I like to say it the second way because it preserves God\'s sovereignty and perfect benevolence. God doesn\'t need to \"react\" to sin with wrath. Being entirely self-sufficient, God\'s God-ness simply IS wrath to sin, which cannot survive its encounter with His holiness.\r\n\r\nAs far as the ontological question about God\'s relation to our being, I really think that the problem with Western Christianity is nominalism, the idea that God is just another being in the universe which is held in place by His externally-imposed will, instead of the sacramental view from the first half of Christian history that God is the only \"real\" thing in the universe and all other things are contingent upon God for their being. \r\n\r\nAll of the arguments about free will vs. determinism, etc, disappear under the sacramental ontology, because if God is the source of our existence, then following God\'s will for our lives is not submitting to some arbitrary omnipotent bully completely outside of us, but instead connecting fully with the source of our being instead of getting tossed around by idolatrous fetishes that don\'t represent our true desires. Augustine\'s definition of free will occurs within a sacramental ontology and thus has a completely different meaning than the nominalist definition of free will. Calvin read Augustine with a late-medieval nominalist lens rather than a sacramental one. Hence TULIP.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:5.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/5.0','',936,0),(936,3529,'brambonius','bramc777@hotmail.com','http://bramboniusinenglish.wordpress.com','94.109.131.142','2012-01-08 05:16:31','2012-01-08 13:16:31','Hmmm; some very good and importanty point here, but I would go further...\r\n\r\n1) why either/or, I would say both, but the second one is very important indeed and something we miss. We should pay more attention to the church fathers of the eastern orthodox sometimes...\r\n2) I\'m not John Piper, so I go with the first one..\r\n3) primiraly restorative, and this is a very important point missed by a lot of protestants. \r\n4) I wouldn\'t frame it in either terms, but I go with your description of the second option, which reminds me of Sadhu Sundar singh and of the eastern orthodox. Very powerful paradigm shift if contemplated in combination with the first one...\r\n5) I think there\'s more to it than changing minds. I would say there also is an ontological change in the universe due to the incarnation, cross, and resurrection (death, evil and sin being defeated Christus Victor-wise). But again the second option...\r\n6) the second option, but again there\'s more to the subject. Maybe associated with the ontological changes I see in Christ (see 5)\r\n\r\nI would add\r\n\r\n7) is the scope of salvation focussed on saving single persons of on saving the cosmos as a whole\r\n8) Is the gospel centered on the saved person or in the Reign of Jesus and the Kingdom of God. \r\n\r\n(these are the same comments as I made on the CA group on FB)\r\n\r\nbut thanks, these conversations are much needed!\r\n\r\nshalom\r\n\r\nBram',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(938,3529,'brambonius','bramc777@hotmail.com','http://bramboniusinenglish.wordpress.com','94.109.169.222','2012-01-08 10:33:29','2012-01-08 18:33:29','interesting, and I think I agree... In Him we live, in Him we move, in Him we have our being... Or like the orthodox say, the energies of God sustain all of creation and we would not \'be\' without them. This is close to the panentheism of some in the emerging church, but faraway from most of protestantism. Deism could never have emerged from the older view, and in a way this absent God of much protestants (which is only te be found in the bible) is a precursor for the non-existent god of atheism...\r\n\r\nI would never have made the connection with nominalism; I have to reread and rethink some stuff, I hope I find the time for that, because this seems like something very important.\r\n\r\nSo we have 2 aspects of hell, none of which have to do with being tormented or actively punished. The C.S. Lewis view of getting our own Kingdom and getting cut away from God, which may result in non-existence or at least ceasing to be the imago dei (as NT Wright says somewhere) and the intolerable holiness of God (an idea I first encountered in Sundar singh, and later found again in the orthodox tradition, but might also be implied in the end of Lewis\' great divorce, when the ghostly narrator seems to get dissolved in the breaking light of the morning) which makes it impossible for an unreconciled person to be in Gods presence. (which is why in the OT people who encountered YHWH were surprised that they had not died)\r\n\r\n\"All of the arguments about free will vs. determinism, etc, disappear under the sacramental ontology, because if God is the source of our existence, then following God’s will for our lives is not submitting to some arbitrary omnipotent bully completely outside of us, but instead connecting fully with the source of our being instead of getting tossed around by idolatrous fetishes that don’t represent our true desires.\"  \r\n\r\nYESSS!!!\r\n\r\nshalom\r\n\r\nBram',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',937,0),(939,3529,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.5.248.78','2012-01-08 21:34:45','2012-01-09 05:34:45','Morgan, Mark Driscoll asked a different six questions on hell. \r\n\r\nhttp://www.churchleaders.com/pastors/pastor-articles/149639-mark-driscoll-to-hell-with-hell_part1.html',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,1),(940,3564,'Travis Klassen','travklassen@me.com','http://churchburned.com','96.53.86.134','2012-01-09 06:01:06','2012-01-09 14:01:06','This is right on, Ray. Church is about being who we are and who we are called to be, in relationship with one another and with God. It\'s about being intentional with our faith. Another awesome read.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; .NET4.0C; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; InfoPath.1)','',0,0),(941,3564,'Ray Hollenbach','ray.hollenbach@gmail.com','http://studentsofjesus.com','71.28.224.176','2012-01-09 06:58:19','2012-01-09 14:58:19','Thanks, Travis. Imagine what could happen if we were all \"intentional with our faith.\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',940,0),(942,3562,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.5.248.78','2012-01-09 09:33:32','2012-01-09 09:33:32','Amy, I\'d like you to take one more stab at setting it up better.  It still needs more context for your anger.',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','editorial-comment',0,0),(943,3618,'Christian Salafia','christian@homebrewedtheology.com','http://homebrewedtheology.com','65.114.230.33','2012-01-09 10:13:15','2012-01-09 18:13:15','IMO, in the non-denom community, yes, they want the unchurched to come but there\'s this expectation that they will conform to what that community\'s version of \"churched\" is.\r\n\r\nIt\'s been my experience that the mainline denominational churches, or at least the ones I\'ve been to, tolerate, at a minimum, or welcome kids who are active during the service.  Where I\'m attending now, the Pastor sees it as part of what makes being Christian a \"beautiful mess\".\r\n\r\nNow, on the poopy diaper, yeah, that probably should have been changed.  I do agree with you, though, what if they just weren\'t aware of what to do and were scared of getting up and possibly causing a scene.\r\n\r\nI just feel that the service is an hour of my time, one where I\'m responsible for how I respond to God, and that any of these inconveniences are just that... and temporary.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',0,47),(952,3618,'Christian Salafia','christian@homebrewedtheology.com','http://homebrewedtheology.com','65.114.230.33','2012-01-10 10:50:22','2012-01-10 18:50:22','That\'s a good point, that it\'s comes down to the attitude and love of the pastor.  \r\n\r\nLike most \"organizations\", so to speak, the members are a reflection of the leadership.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',950,47),(945,3558,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-01-09 12:27:15','2012-01-09 20:27:15','Travis, I\'ve been there many times, especially when my self-destruct mode kicks in.  In that passage, I note that God agrees with Elijah that the journey is too much for him.  God\'s solution?  Rest and nourishment for both the body and the soul.  God provided for his needs and reminded him that his life wasn\'t over and wasn\'t pointless.  Best of all, God showed up so Elijah wouldn\'t think he was all alone in the mess.\r\n\r\nThank you for your blunt honesty.  It helps that not only is God with us no matter what, but there are other people willing to share who have struggled with death, too.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,35),(951,3807,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.206.213','2012-01-10 10:38:15','2012-01-10 10:38:15','Ron, your document was likely imported from Word.  Please scrub the text when you import it.  It had a lot of funky formatting.  You can do that by selecting all the content and then using the eraser icon above.',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','editorial-comment',0,0),(946,3825,'M. Horn','hornmike@sbcglobal.net','http://millenials','67.125.139.174','2012-01-09 15:18:07','2012-01-09 23:18:07','Have you checked out the stats posted on the internet today?  All 316, 31.6, 3.16 stats.  More superstition or coincidental?  Not sure what to make of it, if anything.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(947,3825,'Sherry','shrry604@gmail.com','http://dancingintherainbow.com','74.232.65.116','2012-01-09 17:44:07','2012-01-10 01:44:07','There\'s a part of me that wants to say something profound. But instead, I\'m just going to say that I truly appreciate your voice.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(948,3564,'Cam','csobalvarro@gmail.com','http://blog.realfaitharts.com','71.146.132.171','2012-01-09 20:55:23','2012-01-10 04:55:23','You had me wanting to stand-up and cheer at, \"Hope is the real fuel of the church, but too often we are met with hype.\"  That is SO true and I see it repeated over and over again in so many churches. As a musician and one who loves great production, ironinically I find myself far more drawn to simple, soulful, even rough-around-the-edges worship art than slick, perfect, and recycled worship. Similarly, I\'d rather hear a humble person with a broken past proclaim the depth of God\'s grace in stammering words than someone who\'s isolated themselves in a world so exclussively religious that, while never having to confess one of \"those\" sins, they end-up with an arrogance that makes them incomparable and unapproachable by others. \r\nThank God He sees us for what He made us to be, for His image, and not necssarily for what we allow ourselves to become. Inside or outside the church, it isn\'t necessarily pretty. But there is great beauty in a community of imperfect people seeking to know and pursue the God who first loved them. ',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X; en_US) AppleWebKit (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile [FBAN/FBForIPhone;FBAV/4.1;FBBV/4100.0;FBDV/iPad2,1;FBMD/iPad;FBSN/iPhone OS;FBSV/5.0.1;FBSS/1; FBCR/;FBID/tablet;FBLC/en_US;FBSF/1.0]','',0,0),(949,3529,'csobalvarro','csobalvarro@gmail.com','http://blog.realfaitharts.com','71.146.132.171','2012-01-09 21:31:56','2012-01-10 05:31:56','Honestly, I have a different take entirely. Not argumentative of either position really, and not to say there\'s not value in the conversation. But throughout the last year as the debate has continued acorss the bookshelves and the blogosphere, my thoughts have more and more come down to this:  Heaven, regardless of what, how, and where it is, is immeasurably good. It\'s of God, and it\'s His desire for all His beloved to be with Him there.  Hell, regardless of what, how, and where it is, is immeasurably bad. It\'s not of God, and it\'s His desire that none of His beloved will be there.   I would just like to see the church rally around wanting what God wants — for as many as possible to experience the goodness of God, starting now, and in progressively greater measure. But to hear the passion in some as they speak about Hell, I\'d swear they\'re secretly looking forward to seeing many sent there. I\'m with God on this, I\'d like NONE to perish.  I\'m going to focus on that.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,126),(950,3618,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.141.39','2012-01-10 07:12:22','2012-01-10 15:12:22','Good points, Christian. I\'m in a denominational church that acts very non-denominational. It really comes down to the attitude and love of the pastor.\r\n\r\nYour last comment was great and I think the heart of the message. \"What are we willing to do/put aside for the hour of worship?\" I don\'t know the whole story. Maybe it was this couple\'s last diaper. Who knows? Maybe they were lazy. But we don\'t know. It\'s intriguing for me to think about.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',943,12),(953,3618,'Victoria Cooper','vika.99@gmail.com','','99.42.106.141','2012-01-10 10:52:43','2012-01-10 18:52:43','Haha, well, I am told I am always contrary &amp; unfortunately, my experience in the non-denom realm is the exact opposite. My ex-husband &amp; I were on staff at a non-denominational church for several years &amp; frequently had discussions about how Christ himself would not be let in this church because they would be afraid that he would bleed on the carpet. There was a time when my middle son was an infant when I never went to service if I wasn\'t serving because proper accommodations were simply not made for nursing mothers &amp; I was constantly shooed from the sanctuary for the stupidest of reasons, such as him babbling during the musical portion. This led to an old blog of mine I titled, \"The Value of Incoherent Praise.\" I don\'t know if this is different elsewhere, but every \"non-denom\" ministry I have encountered thus far has extreme doctrines which place a lot of guilt on the imperfect, regardless of repentance, and invent prophecies or otherwise make feel unwelcome the \"different\" sorts (ie: goth). They might say they want the unchurched, but that wore on me, and I finally left at a time when I needed church more than anything as a result.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,0),(954,3618,'Victoria Cooper','vika.99@gmail.com','','99.42.106.141','2012-01-10 10:54:49','2012-01-10 18:54:49','re-reading, perhaps not so \"opposite\"... ok... you get what I mean though LOL... squalling babes &amp; all...',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,0),(955,3677,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.206.213','2012-01-10 11:39:51','2012-01-10 11:39:51','Kevin, I want to feature this next week.  Do you have a higher res image.  Featured Image Posts need 1024x512.  Send it to me and I\'ll add it, if you do have it.',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','editorial-comment',0,0),(956,3564,'Ray Hollenbach','ray.hollenbach@gmail.com','http://studentsofjesus.com','98.17.243.252','2012-01-10 15:29:15','2012-01-10 23:29:15','Thanks for your kind words, Cam. I\'m also reminded of the passage that tells us, \"Hope does not disappointment because the love of God has been shed abroad in our hearts.\" Churches fueled by hope are supplied by God, and as such will never run out of supply. Churches fueled by hype will, eventually, come to an end.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:6.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0.2','',948,0),(957,3529,'Morgan Guyton','maguyton@gmail.com','http://morganguyton.wordpress.com','173.73.75.39','2012-01-10 15:41:03','2012-01-10 23:41:03','\"There are degrees of punishment in hell like there are degrees of reward in heaven.\" In other words, atonement doesn\'t change anything about his capitalism-derived understanding of justice as equivalent to retribution. It\'s all just about rewards and punishments. No transformation whatsoever. Yeah that\'s pretty much everything that I\'m against.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',939,0),(958,3529,'Morgan Guyton','maguyton@gmail.com','http://morganguyton.wordpress.com','173.73.75.39','2012-01-10 15:43:50','2012-01-10 23:43:50','Sounds reasonable. I think the only reason to question the (very recent) \"traditional\" evangelical understanding of heaven and hell is because so many non-believers get hung up on it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',949,0),(959,3625,'Morgan Guyton','maguyton@gmail.com','http://morganguyton.wordpress.com','173.73.75.39','2012-01-10 16:07:01','2012-01-11 00:07:01','Paul is instructing husbands on how to treat their wives like Christ treated the church. I don\'t think there\'s any hierarchy that\'s supposed to be part of that. Here\'s my own two cents on the issue: http://morganguyton.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/why-gender-hierarchy-makes-no-biblical-sense-to-me/',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,57),(960,3618,'Michael Levitt','levitt.mike@gmail.com','http://levittmike.com','173.32.167.10','2012-01-10 18:37:56','2012-01-11 02:37:56','I\'m concerned that too many churches have turned into faith-based country clubs.  \r\n\r\nI recommend everyone in their lifetime visit a street mission-based church, where you will likely encounter homeless parishioners, and other \"unchurched\" individuals.  \r\n\r\nPraying our churches will be filled with the unchurched, not so we can get them to speak \"Christianese\", but so they can learn to walk and grow with Jesus.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(962,3564,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.28.78.232','2012-01-11 16:40:28','2012-01-12 00:40:28','Donal, thanks for the local knowledge.  The choice of images was inadvertent.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',961,1),(963,3471,'Ryan M.','jeevesths@netscape.net','','67.149.108.241','2012-01-11 21:38:33','2012-01-12 05:38:33','Huh.  As a scientifically-minded guy, I run into a different problem.  I\'ve seen enough of the cold equations that the universe as I see it is a cold and heartless place.  The weather doesn\'t care that your favorite flower is dead now.  Bacteria don\'t care that you wanted to go to an event, they just make you sick.\r\n\r\nIt\'s mercy that puzzles me, grace that surprises me.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(964,4019,'Cody Stauffer','staucody72@gmail.com','http://wearebecoming.org','75.174.113.163','2012-01-13 09:43:06','2012-01-13 17:43:06','To be 100% honest with you, a lot of the people I know who\'ve shared it don\'t really buy it. It\'s a talking point they like to nod with, but of course it really means (gauging by the their actions at other times): \"what I believe is Jesus, but everything else that I don\'t agree with is merely religion.\" They have just as strict boundaries as anyone else I know, and it really is just another version of the \"in-out\" game.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,17),(965,4019,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.28.78.232','2012-01-13 09:52:57','2012-01-13 17:52:57','Cody, so is the tension (he got over 1,600 dislikes on Youtube) that its disingenuous?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',964,1),(966,4019,'Morgan Guyton','maguyton@gmail.com','http://morganguyton.wordpress.com','70.167.242.166','2012-01-13 11:01:01','2012-01-13 19:01:01','Here\'s what I wrote in response to the video. The problem in the American church is not an obsession with \"religion\" but an idolatry of \"doctrine.\" http://morganguyton.wordpress.com/2012/01/12/why-i-hate-doctrine-but-love-jesus-response-to-a-similarly-named-video/',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:5.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/5.0','',0,0),(982,3551,'Bill','williamawalkeriii@gmail.com','','24.160.34.219','2012-01-15 14:44:26','2012-01-15 22:44:26','Thanks Travis.  Yeah, I just noticed your post on churchburned about \"being or going\" - very good stuff.  I especially like the \"Understanding Ministry\" excerpt.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',981,0),(983,4019,'Bill Walker','williamawalkeriii@gmail.com','http://billwalker.wordpress.com','24.160.34.219','2012-01-15 15:49:56','2012-01-15 23:49:56','\"What nerve has it touched in people that it would generate 6 million hits in two days and countless responses?\"  \r\n\r\nI\'m in agreement with what you all have said so far I think - especially the \"idolatry of doctrine\" aspect.  In addition, It seems to me the nerve here is in part the same nerve that kicked off the Reformation and that still defines so much of American evangelicalism in a one-sided way - namely, \"salvation by grace through faith alone.\" And when you add the alleged bipartisanship (i.e., Christianity ~= GOP) while also getting tough on sexual sin, this strikes a chord with the same millions of people that podcast Mark Driscoll\'s sermons (and in turn don\'t mind the gender-exclusive language). And still further, most 20\'s and 30\'s will strongly identify with the expressed disapproval of highly adorned church buildings and a lack of social justice initiative among many religious folks.  \r\n\r\nThe biggest shortcoming of this brand of Christianity in mind, however, is that it\'s still individualistic to the core.  It\'s a \"personal relationship with Jesus,\" as Cody indicated, so much so that even concern for the poor and the common good is necessarily relegated to the periphery - despite being mentioned as a kind of important accessory.  It\'s \"It is finished\" theology, in other words, with \"why have you forsaken me\" left conspicuously absent.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,20),(968,3873,'Laura Droege','laura_droege@bellsouth.net','http://lauradroege.wordpress.com','98.67.161.160','2012-01-13 13:33:34','2012-01-13 21:33:34','Got a couple of questions. 1) I\'m not currently a write for Provoketive. How much of a time committment is it? \r\n2) I want to write on the topic of hope and I have an idea that i can develop; however, I\'d need to get the okay to write about the situation from other people. If I sign up to write and then they say \"no, please don\'t post this piece\", am I still obligated to post something?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(969,3587,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.28.78.232','2012-01-13 17:12:48','2012-01-13 17:12:48','John, are you submitting this post for the Synchroblog, or separately?',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','editorial-comment',0,0),(980,4065,'jeremyers1','jmyers@tillhecomes.org','http://www.tillhecomes.org','206.138.130.2','2012-01-15 07:05:06','2012-01-15 07:05:06','This is for the January Synchroblog on Hope.',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','editorial-comment',0,0),(971,4019,'Cody Stauffer','staucody72@gmail.com','http://wearebecoming.org','71.220.128.218','2012-01-13 17:29:50','2012-01-14 01:29:50','I would guess that\'s probably a part of it. Growing up in a conservative Evangelical background, the popular saying at the time was : \"Christianity is a relationship, not a religion.\" But it didn\'t take me very long to learn what that really meant was \"Only this specific group of people have that relationship\" and, shock of all shocks, it just so happened to be the group I was in. Everything else was just religion, and they were all missing out on the relationship- and most often, because they didn\'t sign on to some doctrines (inerrant Bible, etc.). My experience has been that the people who say this stuff the most have some of the strongest boundaries for who actually has that relationship with Jesus.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',965,17),(981,3551,'Travis Klassen','travklassen@me.com','http://churchburned.com','96.53.86.134','2012-01-15 08:21:17','2012-01-15 16:21:17','I think the opening phrase of each statement says it all: \"We want to \'be\' a church...\"  It says, we want to intentionally engage via these well articulated principles. Thanks for sharing!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,0),(977,3677,'Kevin Gonzaga','kglethean@gmail.com','http://speakfaithfully.wordpress.com','99.182.66.194','2012-01-14 08:15:11','2012-01-14 08:15:11','Jonathan, I emailed it to you.',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','editorial-comment',955,0),(976,4019,'Cody Stauffer','staucody72@gmail.com','http://wearebecoming.org','71.220.128.218','2012-01-13 21:16:09','2012-01-14 05:16:09','Morgan, I think that\'s a good call.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',966,17),(984,3618,'David','dxt1157@gmail.com','','74.132.162.189','2012-01-15 23:52:03','2012-01-16 07:52:03','It is interesting that the person initiating the comments about the 2 yo did not want to leave because she was afraid of offending the family, but is is okay to kind of \"kill\" them with her words on the radio after the fact. Either you want these uncomfortable families in your church or you do not. Seems to me that the person making these comments about the family could have offered to assist the family with a way to take care of the problem instead of letting it linger. Maybe this is a harsh response, but it seems hypocritical to not want to offend the family in church, but yet it seems okay to discuss them on radio later.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,0),(986,4070,'Steve Martin','steve.martin37@aol.com','http://theoldadam.wordpress.com','68.4.142.252','2012-01-16 08:10:45','2012-01-16 16:10:45','Interesting piece.\r\n\r\nI think the \'Rosa Parks\' moments, or the Mahatma Ghandi moments can eventually break through in decent (not perfect) societies.\r\n\r\nBut the human heart and will has a much tougher time in a brutal society led by truly evil people.\r\n\r\nOne wonders how many Rosa Parks, or Ghandis were snuffed out by the Mao\'s, Stalins , Hitlers, and Pol Pots of the world.\r\n\r\nAs my pastor says, \"In this world there is no rest, no peace, and no victory\". Not lasting, anyway.\r\n\r\nThanks, very much.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1; Trident/4.0; SearchToolbar 1.2; GTB7.2; .NET CLR 1.0.3705; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; Media Center PC 4.0; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; WinNT-PAI 18.08.2009; BRI/2; AskTbFTB/5.','',0,0),(987,4070,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.28.78.232','2012-01-16 08:19:03','2012-01-16 16:19:03','Steve, I think that\'s what makes the human heart idea so powerful.  For every sense of oppression there is an equally powerful story of courage.  In sitting on that seat, Rosa Parks created an idea that was more powerful than her oppressors.  But it took someone to first speak it out loud for others to hear it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',986,1),(988,3842,'Jane Willis Gardner','janegardner33@gmail.com','','66.87.84.92','2012-01-16 09:14:05','2012-01-16 17:14:05','So practical ... so \"simply\" Divine.  Thank you for sharing.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; en-us; MB855 Build/4.5.1A-1_SUN-198_6) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1','',0,0),(1004,4046,'Liz Dyer','lizdyer@verizon.net','http://gracerules.wordpress.com/','63.240.122.129','2012-01-18 09:03:49','2012-01-18 17:03:49','Jonathan - thanks for this!  I also have some things that I feel confident enough about that sometimes make me wonder if I haven\'t moved from one box to another but like you I believe that this time things are different!  This time (like you) I am not putting my hope and confidence in what I believe as much as I am putting my hope and confidence in the love of God ... and when I say \"the love of God\" I am not just talking about the love that he has for me ... I am talking about \"THE LOVE OF GOD\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(990,3842,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-01-16 11:44:51','2012-01-16 19:44:51','God taught me to hear Him through a variety of ways so I would understand.  \"Practical\" is the only way God can get through to me!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',988,35),(992,3533,'Tracy','tracychiara@gmail.com','http://abundantliving-tracy.blogspot.com/','71.105.186.166','2012-01-16 13:11:54','2012-01-16 21:11:54','Appreciate this post as it echos the atmosphere in my own mind.  I\'m grateful to be 51 years old.  Grateful for the life I have today, grateful for my sons and the young men I get to watch them become,  grateful for what I\'ve learned from the mistakes I\'ve made (and that I don\'t have to do that again!), grateful for decades of blessings I look at to build my faith for the future, grateful for the more complete sense of self that I enjoy today, grateful for the life ahead of me.  I tire of the you\'re-not-good-enough messages that our culture abounds in, no matter what your age.  I remind myself of truth on a regular basis; one truth is that God has a plan for my life where ever I am.  Moses did not lead the children of Israel out of Egypt until well after he was 40 years old.   In 2009, when I was 49yrs old, I lost a career job for a company that I\'d worked for the preceding 10 years.  It was scarey, but I knew God was in control of my life.  For 10 months I even went  back to working at something that I\'d done 17yrs prior.  Then this past August I started on a new career path and I am currently challenged by a whole new work world where I\'m looking forward to a substantial promotion this coming July that the company is currently grooming me toward.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,0),(993,3533,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-01-16 13:33:15','2012-01-16 21:33:15','Amen and Amen, Tracy!  It\'s interesting how many women God continues to put across my path who are yearning to know this message of hope.  It had never occured to them that they could start new careers in their fifties and sixties, or that some of the most meaningful times of their lives were yet to come.  Keep telling your story to others, Tracy.  Women AND men of all ages need to hear it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',992,35),(994,2508,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://www.quietanthem.com/','75.71.99.63','2012-01-16 17:14:12','2012-01-17 01:14:12','Thank you, Laura. :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',786,102),(995,2508,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://www.quietanthem.com/','75.71.99.63','2012-01-16 17:26:36','2012-01-17 01:26:36','I\'ll reply here to both Austin\'s comment and Kristen\'s response. \r\n\r\nAustin, thank you for providing a male\'s perspective here. It\'s most appreciated, especially since you take such loving care to maintain equality in, what would seem, all your relationships. \r\n\r\nIn large part, I absolutely agree with Kristen\'s points about how you handled you and your wife\'s predicament, and what a husband should do if he disagrees with his pastor wife. \r\n\r\nI\'ll add that I place a very firm emphasis on the unity brought forth by the Holy Spirit. This is key for marriage and churches. If people operate and abide by this power, I\'ve found that there is very little disunity when it comes to spiritual (or practical) matters. \r\n\r\nGod desires unity; it\'s what Jesus prayed for in the Garden (\"...that they would be one.\").',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',889,102),(996,3704,'Tiaan Kruger','tiaank@gmail.com','','66.187.233.202','2012-01-17 13:18:45','2012-01-17 21:18:45','Great article! I am curious - why are you saying \"...this is an authority structure that many groups of Christians believe is biblical and ideal\". Our Pastor teaches that if Christians are working within the will of God they will be like-minded and even though having someone \"lead\" they are not given dictating powers. He often explains this when talking about the vision for our Church and the way the leadership opperates. I am curious if there is scripture that points to something else and would love to hear what Pastor would take from it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.33 Safari/535.11','',0,0),(997,3704,'Brooke Eikenberry','brooke.eikenberry@gmail.com','http://30somethingcrisis.tumblr.com/','65.190.94.26','2012-01-17 13:55:08','2012-01-17 21:55:08','Tiaan,\r\n\r\nThanks for the comment and opportunity for further discussion! \r\n\r\nIf I am being completely frank and not just trying to be diplomatic or provoke discussion, I agree with the premise that, if Christians are following the will of God, they will be like-minded (for the most part) and that leading does not include dictatorial powers. In my experience, those who follow a more dictatorial approach to leadership also agree that if Christians are all in God\'s will there will not be disagreements or disputes with leadership. but, that is idealistic in a fallen world. So the problem comes when there is disagreement, as there will be. For, we all still fall prey to sin, and I think we can agree that means everyone falls out of the will of God on occasion. What then? In the dictatorial churches, it is assumed that leadership is never wrong and should always be followed. So, the member or lay person is assumed to be always wrong. That is a dangerous set-up, much like the belief that the Pope is infallible. \r\n\r\nEven if they will admit that leadership can be wrong, dictatorial churches will still say members must always \'submit\' to leadership-- for the leadership will be accountable to God in that case, not the member. They tend to extrapolate on verses about women submitting to husbands(Colossians 3:18, Ephesians 5) general verses about submitting to earthly and church authority (Romans 3:1-7, Hebrews 13:17,1 Peter 2: 13-14) and Old Testament references, like when David refused to harm King Saul, because he was the Lord \'s anointed. They also go so far as to suggest that disagreeing with leadership is always rebellion, which allows for clobber verses like 1Samuel 15:22-23, which states that rebellion is like the sin of witchcraft. These are verse that I\'ve personally heard used for such purposes, and I am sure there are many more. In my opinion, it\'s QUITE a stretch, yet it is not that uncommon. \r\n\r\nIn the end, we are all accountable to God, and I doubt \"but my Pastor/minister/whatever told to do it this way, so I did it even though I knew in my heart that was wrong\" will fly.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',996,48),(1003,4055,'Liz Dyer','lizdyer@verizon.net','http://gracerules.wordpress.com/','63.240.122.129','2012-01-18 08:54:58','2012-01-18 16:54:58','Mike - Thanks for writing such a transparent piece.  I too was surprised a few times in the last year by the presence of God and it was most certainly a significant moment of encouragement to me each time!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1002,3587,'John Ptacek','Ptaceks@hotmail.com','http://www.johnptacek.com','76.229.161.39','2012-01-18 08:49:41','2012-01-18 16:49:41','Well, I guess that makes two of us, Liz. Clue me in if you write anything in this vein. Scratch that; I just read and commented on your essay.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,0),(999,3704,'Tiaan Kruger','tiaank@gmail.com','','65.190.200.218','2012-01-17 18:07:06','2012-01-18 02:07:06','Wow. I am glad you got out of that situation. Definitely understand what you mean about leadership not always being right - but in a healthy Church I would hope that the people in leadership is aware of their clay feet and can acknowledge it. Far too many times though that is not the situation, truly sad. I really do appreciate your open honest sharing in this piece and definitely gave me a lot of food for thought!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1000,3587,'Liz Dyer','lizdyer@verizon.net','http://gracerules.wordpress.com/','63.240.122.129','2012-01-18 08:40:49','2012-01-18 16:40:49','John - I have also been learning about abandoning hope and how to be fully present in the moment and learn from and savor what the present has to offer.  So I was pleasantly surprised and relieved to read your contribution to the synchroblog on Hope as  I was a little concerned that no one would get what I was writing about. Now I have \"hope\" (LOL) that at least one person can relate :&gt;)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1001,4004,'Liz Dyer','lizdyer@verizon.net','http://gracerules.wordpress.com/','63.240.122.129','2012-01-18 08:47:23','2012-01-18 16:47:23','Wayne - what a beautiful and moving piece!  May we all be able to see \"possibilities through the magnifying lens of God\'s imagination\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1005,4145,'amaris','amaris.kress@gmail.com','','24.179.31.187','2012-01-18 09:27:50','2012-01-18 17:27:50','I never know what to write as I comment on your essays. \"Love this!\" \"So prolific and profound.\" \"Thank you for sharing!\" Renee, your words are calling out to deep and rising echos in the heavenlies. I love you, friend. Thank you for sharing ;)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(1006,3918,'Tor Constantino, MBA','torconbooks@gmail.com','http://www.thedailyretort.com','80.254.147.164','2012-01-18 09:31:29','2012-01-18 17:31:29','Scathing, true, blisteringly funny - it doesn\'t get better than that! Fantastic post, Matt!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1007,4106,'Adam Gonnerman','gonnerman@burntmail.com','http://missionaljourneyman.com','68.39.10.145','2012-01-18 09:44:51','2012-01-18 17:44:51','It\'s challenging to try to live hoping in God\'s love, when it\'s so habitual to hope for future events. I suppose my hope in God is that he will guide my steps, understanding that no hoped-for event in this life is the definitive fulfillment of hope.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:5.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/5.0','',0,0),(1008,4115,'Adam Gonnerman','gonnerman@burntmail.com','http://missionaljourneyman.com','68.39.10.145','2012-01-18 09:48:10','2012-01-18 17:48:10','I believe that\'s the most hopeful, clear-headed rant I\'ve ever seen online!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:5.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/5.0','',0,0),(1009,4187,'Adam Gonnerman','gonnerman@burntmail.com','http://missionaljourneyman.com','68.39.10.145','2012-01-18 09:56:26','2012-01-18 17:56:26','I was unemployed briefly in 2010, and remember both the anxiety each morning as I faced another day, and the lack of a sense of purpose. Worse than that was 2005, when my father died, I quit full-time ministry and spent the year and then some underemployed. Those were the darkest of my dark days, and I couldn\'t see God in it. In retrospect I\'ve come to understand it as a wilderness period. He wasn\'t apparent, but God was there with me through it all.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:5.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/5.0','',0,0),(1010,4196,'Adam Gonnerman','gonnerman@burntmail.com','http://missionaljourneyman.com','68.39.10.145','2012-01-18 09:59:28','2012-01-18 17:59:28','I can understand people\'s pessimism and doubt that those ideals can be realized on a global scale in this age, but they are certainly central to the high calling of the Gospel. People will be won over if they see it in action, rather than simply here about it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:5.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/5.0','',0,0),(1011,4198,'Adam Gonnerman','gonnerman@burntmail.com','http://missionaljourneyman.com','68.39.10.145','2012-01-18 10:03:45','2012-01-18 18:03:45','I\'m terribly curious as to whether either of the church splits you\'ve seen were over teaching or egos. In general I\'ve found it\'s always the latter, sometimes dressed up as though it were something more objective.\r\n\r\nIn any case, it isn\'t fun. I once served a church that had gone through several splits and was assured that the fighting was over, that everyone remaining was on the same page. This was true, but it was a deeply dysfunctional bunch, and it was that church that got me out of full-time ministry and nearly broke my faith in the process.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:5.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/5.0','',0,0),(1012,4206,'Adam Gonnerman','gonnerman@burntmail.com','http://missionaljourneyman.com','68.39.10.145','2012-01-18 10:07:54','2012-01-18 18:07:54','Very nice post. My wife and I decided when we got married that \"someday\" we\'d adopt a child. Just the other night she repeated once again her intention to get our names on the adoption list as soon as we move back to Brazil. All the best with yours!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:5.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/5.0','',0,141),(1013,4302,'Adam Gonnerman','gonnerman@burntmail.com','http://missionaljourneyman.com','68.39.10.145','2012-01-18 10:12:13','2012-01-18 18:12:13','You\'ve made me glad I don\'t watch much TV. Then again, I\'m not sure how well Perry\'s message would have played here in New Jersey. Keep that girl dreaming. One of the worst things I see in life on a regular basis is young people becoming adults and settling for less.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:5.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/5.0','',0,141),(1014,4314,'Adam Gonnerman','gonnerman@burntmail.com','http://missionaljourneyman.com','68.39.10.145','2012-01-18 10:15:53','2012-01-18 18:15:53','We didn\'t talk about New Years resolutions in my family when I was a kid. It was only after I became a Christian that I started setting goals for the New Year. Last year was perhaps the most depressing, when I realized how much I hadn\'t accomplished. This year was considerably better. Not all the goals were realized, but some things worked out better than expected. I couldn\'t plan most of the great things that have happened. It\'s been the work of God.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:5.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/5.0','',0,141),(1015,4065,'Wayne Rumsby','wayne@rumsby.ca','','142.47.58.178','2012-01-18 10:16:11','2012-01-18 18:16:11','Nice close. The only part of the problem I have any possibility of changing is me.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/4.0; SLCC1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.21022; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30618; .NET4.0C)','',0,0),(1016,4320,'Adam Gonnerman','gonnerman@burntmail.com','http://missionaljourneyman.com','68.39.10.145','2012-01-18 10:21:01','2012-01-18 18:21:01','The thing about genuine hope is that it is disruptive and deeply subversive. Slave owners do all they can to eliminate the hope of those they have in bondage. Politicians tell us to put our hope in them, thus making us feel at least somewhat dependent on them or \"the system\" to have our hopes realized. The hope of God turns the world on its head and leaves the powers exposed for the fraud they are.\r\n\r\nWe seek stability and contentment, only to find a hopeless status quo.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:5.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/5.0','',0,141),(1017,4198,'Laura Droege','laura_droege@bellsouth.net','http://lauradroege.wordpress.com','98.81.15.115','2012-01-18 10:24:17','2012-01-18 18:24:17','Adam, \r\nIn this case, I\'m not sure. The situation is getting better, though; the leadership is dedicated to bringing unity and peace to the situation. The first split I saw, when I was a preteen, involved moral issues about deception (over finances) and sexual immorality. I\'m sorry you had such a horrible time serving at that church; being affected by a split is heartbreaking. Thank you for reading.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',1011,146),(1018,4206,'Travis Klassen','travklassen@me.com','http://earthtourist.org','96.53.86.134','2012-01-18 10:40:33','2012-01-18 18:40:33','Thanks Adam! Be blessed on your journey.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; .NET4.0C; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; InfoPath.1)','',0,149),(1019,4331,'Adam Gonnerman','gonnerman@burntmail.com','http://missionaljourneyman.com','68.39.10.145','2012-01-18 10:43:51','2012-01-18 18:43:51','There are 7 billion+ of us now, so it\'s bound to get more interesting....',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:5.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/5.0','',0,141),(1020,4004,'Adam Gonnerman','gonnerman@burntmail.com','http://missionaljourneyman.com','68.39.10.145','2012-01-18 10:47:09','2012-01-18 18:47:09','Heartfelt and beautiful. Thank you for this post.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:5.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/5.0','',0,141),(1021,4004,'Laura Droege','laura_droege@bellsouth.net','http://lauradroege.wordpress.com','98.81.15.115','2012-01-18 10:52:47','2012-01-18 18:52:47','Beautiful. Thank you for sharing.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,146),(1022,4331,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','68.73.44.130','2012-01-18 11:15:58','2012-01-18 19:15:58','Heh, absolutely!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',1019,38),(1023,4320,'HopefulLeigh','leighkramerblog@gmail.com','http://www.leighkramer.com','69.137.115.92','2012-01-18 11:30:08','2012-01-18 19:30:08','\"hope can be a precursor to disappointment, but it can also be a gateway to joy and excitement.\"\r\n\r\nI\'ve lived with the first part of that sentence for so long. But in choosing hope as my #OneWord365, it\'s time for me to embrace the second part of that sentence.  Let\'s hope together, friend.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,0),(1024,4065,'Liz Dyer','lizdyer@verizon.net','http://gracerules.wordpress.com/','63.240.122.129','2012-01-18 11:46:36','2012-01-18 19:46:36','if you were talking about yourself how come I felt so convicted ?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1025,4065,'Liz Dyer','lizdyer@verizon.net','http://gracerules.wordpress.com/','63.240.122.129','2012-01-18 11:47:36','2012-01-18 19:47:36','if you were pointing to yourself how come I felt so convicted?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1026,4106,'Liz Dyer','lizdyer@verizon.net','http://gracerules.wordpress.com/','63.240.122.129','2012-01-18 12:04:05','2012-01-18 20:04:05','if we represent the love of God well we just might bring Up There, down here this year!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1027,3587,'Mihee','miheekk@gmail.com','http://www.miheekimkort.com','24.1.105.103','2012-01-18 12:17:51','2012-01-18 20:17:51','This is so incredibly expressive and honest, and just so real. Thank you for sharing it. Hard and beautiful.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1028,4106,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2012-01-18 12:18:21','2012-01-18 20:18:21','I have trouble with that, too.  Sometimes, I have so many future hopes that I forget that right now is a moment I should be living.  May God guide our steps and remind us that He is the fulfillment of our hopes.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1007,43),(1029,4106,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2012-01-18 12:18:48','2012-01-18 20:18:48','I sure hope so!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1026,43),(1030,4004,'Mihee','miheekk@gmail.com','http://www.miheekimkort.com','24.1.105.103','2012-01-18 12:20:23','2012-01-18 20:20:23','So courageous and inspiring. Thank you.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1031,4055,'Mihee','miheekk@gmail.com','http://www.miheekimkort.com','24.1.105.103','2012-01-18 12:22:40','2012-01-18 20:22:40','The photo takes my breath away. Your words are brave and honest and true - thank you for the reminder to be mindful of those small things.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1032,4277,'John Ptacek','Ptaceks@hotmail.com','http://www.johnptacek.com','76.229.161.39','2012-01-18 12:38:28','2012-01-18 20:38:28','Hi Kathy,\r\n\r\nI enjoyed reading your essay. Interestingly, your bolded text sort of turned hope on its ear. You referred to it in the present tense, so in a way it wasn\'t hope at all, but rather an uncomfortable collision with the present moment (until you got to the part about God\'s help and hope). In my view, and in my interpretation of your description, the present moment contains everything we need even at its most uncomfortable. Don\'t mean to be putting words in your mouth here, this is just my interpretation.\r\n\r\nJohn',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,0),(1033,3587,'JohnPtacek','ptaceks@hotmail.com','http://www.johnptacek.com','76.229.161.39','2012-01-18 12:50:38','2012-01-18 20:50:38','Thanks, Mihee. Look forward to getting to your essay.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',1027,123),(1034,4211,'JohnPtacek','ptaceks@hotmail.com','http://www.johnptacek.com','76.229.161.39','2012-01-18 13:04:27','2012-01-18 21:04:27','You have a rough and tumble relationship with hope, Mihee, but in the end it lights your way. So interesting to learn how differently we all frame this elusive concept.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,123),(1035,4320,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://www.quietanthem.com/','75.71.99.63','2012-01-18 13:05:55','2012-01-18 21:05:55','I think you speak to an underlying fear in all of us. I choose to be content with you.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,102),(1036,4145,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://www.quietanthem.com/','75.71.99.63','2012-01-18 13:06:51','2012-01-18 21:06:51','You are so beautiful, Amaris, and any words you have for me would be perfect. You\'re welcome and thank you.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',1005,102),(1037,4065,'Liz Dyer','lizdyer55@gmail.com','http://gracerules.wordpress.com/','63.240.122.129','2012-01-18 13:25:32','2012-01-18 21:25:32','sorry about the duplicate comment.  My browser went haywire and I didn\'t think my comment posted.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',1025,132),(1038,796,'matthew','matthew.zadow@gmail.com','','213.49.244.9','2012-01-18 14:58:01','2012-01-18 22:58:01','Why is it so haunting?\r\n\r\n1) because it\'s a song about someone who was voted off one particular show, the show being the romantic life of someone she cares about\r\n\r\n2) because Adele is a fat chick crying about it in song, and \r\n\r\n3) because it\'s a record of a voice destroyed by a parasitic industry that doesn\'t care a bit about the vocal health or the long-term success of its \"host\".\r\n\r\nIt\'s not a fabulous voice at all; it\'s a voice damaged beyond repair, that has bled itself out twice in the last year because no one in the industry gives a $hit about Adele.  She sings like she\'s 50, not 23.  Another one bites the dust...',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101203 Firefox/3.6.13','',0,0),(1039,796,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.5.246.252','2012-01-18 15:12:19','2012-01-18 23:12:19','Why so negative Matthew?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1038,1),(1040,4065,'Jeremy Myers','jmyers@tillhecomes.org','http://www.tillhecomes.org','24.47.173.38','2012-01-18 16:47:10','2012-01-19 00:47:10','Liz, \r\n\r\nI wasn\'t pointing at you! Honestly!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',1025,0),(1041,4065,'Jeremy Myers','jmyers@tillhecomes.org','http://www.tillhecomes.org','24.47.173.38','2012-01-18 16:48:40','2012-01-19 00:48:40','Thanks. Yes, we need to change ourselves first, before thinking of taking the speck out of someone else\'s eye. Seems like I\'ve heard something about that somewhere...',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',1015,0),(1042,4320,'Ken Hagerman(The Barba)','kensebay1@yahoo.com','http://ramblingbarba.com','190.104.162.218','2012-01-18 16:53:21','2012-01-19 00:53:21','Well done. If you\'re going to hope it must be something with a possible margin a failure otherwise you would just go do it. Sometimes I don\'t have what it takes to gamble on the thin possibility of disappointment. I think I will also choose to be content. It is probably with that contentment as a base that hope emerges and is fulfilled. If not the contentment remains and the disappointment is staved off.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1043,4115,'Wayne Rumsby','wayne@rumsby.ca','http://markysroom.blogspot.com','99.231.82.159','2012-01-18 17:21:19','2012-01-19 01:21:19','I agree Adam. This piece is a rant because it has long paragraphs that leave no stone unturned, and should be read aloud in a voice that is half shouting.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,137),(1044,4115,'Glenn Hager','glennhager1@gmail.com','http://glennhager1.wordpress.com','76.245.207.7','2012-01-18 20:32:06','2012-01-19 04:32:06','Adam,\r\n\r\nThat\'s very kind. Part of the post is a rant, but it is really stuff we all know. We get so used to \"living with it\" that seeing it in written form can seem both blunt and undeniably truthful at the same time. I\'m glad that you found it hopeful!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,144),(1045,3587,'Glenn Hager','glennhager1@gmail.com','http://glennhager1.wordpress.com','76.245.207.7','2012-01-18 20:44:21','2012-01-19 04:44:21','John,\r\n\r\n\"Surrender was where I stumbled into peace. I didn’t give up on life, I just stopped trying to outwit it. Surrender meant discarding the idea that life is always supposed to be wonderful; it’s just supposed to be life.\"\r\n\r\nSo well said and so beautiful! Thank you for sharing something so personal, yet real in some way, to all of us.\r\n\r\nGlenn',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,144),(1046,4004,'Glenn Hager','glennhager1@gmail.com','http://glennhager1.wordpress.com','76.245.207.7','2012-01-18 20:51:10','2012-01-19 04:51:10','Wayne - Beautiful! Thank you!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,144),(1047,4055,'Glenn Hager','glennhager1@gmail.com','http://glennhager1.wordpress.com','76.245.207.7','2012-01-18 20:58:09','2012-01-19 04:58:09','Mike - It is so good to hear from you! It sounds like it was a heck of year for you and yet you have perspective. I dig that!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,144),(1048,4055,'Mike Victorino','bobbavicto@gmail.com','http://www.stillanightowl.wordpress.com','69.59.125.230','2012-01-18 23:28:43','2012-01-19 07:28:43','Hi everyone.  I apologize for my tardiness in getting back to you.  This was my first day back to work in about a week and I got slammed!   It is 1130 PM and I am just now getting to the post on my own blog as well as finally getting to take a look at some of the others.      I will be replying to each of you individually but I wanted to take the opportunity to put out the disclaimer first!  :D',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,142),(1049,4055,'Mike Victorino','bobbavicto@gmail.com','http://www.stillanightowl.wordpress.com','69.59.125.230','2012-01-18 23:41:32','2012-01-19 07:41:32','Hi Liz.   I\'m pretty certain that in those times when I was at my lowest, I wasn\'t focused on God.  It\'s been a long time since it has been.   When I left the organized church, one of the things that I felt the most free from was the belief that all of my time and energy was supposed to be toward Jesus and prayer and worship but what I found out was that when I was devoting all of that time to those things, I wasn\'t really doing what he wanted  Don\'t get me wrong, I have not lost my faith; quite the opposite\r\n\r\nWhen I am out doing my photography, I am usually secluded or out in the woods; somewhere where the white noise of civilization doesn\'t exist.  In these moments, I can reflect and that when God speaks to me.   Or is it a matter of that being when I listen???',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1003,142),(1050,4055,'Mike Victorino','bobbavicto@gmail.com','http://www.stillanightowl.wordpress.com','69.59.125.230','2012-01-18 23:42:27','2012-01-19 07:42:27','Thanks Milhee.  It\'s the little things that mean the most.   Never underestimate the power of quality time!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1031,142),(1051,4055,'Mike Victorino','bobbavicto@gmail.com','http://www.stillanightowl.wordpress.com','69.59.125.230','2012-01-18 23:44:46','2012-01-19 07:44:46','Thanks Glenn.  I probably have more perspective now that in all of the years of my life put together.    Thanks for the props.  I miss it sometimes but I just don\'t have the motivation to write anymore (at least not as much as I used to anyway).   I\'m still following you though so every time you post, I\'m reading and lurking around!!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1047,142),(1052,3587,'Mike Victorino','bobbavicto@gmail.com','http://www.stillanightowl.wordpress.com','69.59.125.230','2012-01-18 23:54:55','2012-01-19 07:54:55','Thanks for a beautiful essay John.   Thanks for being so open and honest about a subject so sensitive.   A great reminder that life is simply life and what is going to happen is going to happen.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,142),(1053,4004,'Mike Victorino','bobbavicto@gmail.com','http://www.stillanightowl.wordpress.com','69.59.125.230','2012-01-19 00:00:08','2012-01-19 08:00:08','A beautiful post Wayne.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,142),(1054,4065,'Mike Victorino','bobbavicto@gmail.com','http://www.stillanightowl.wordpress.com','69.59.125.230','2012-01-19 00:15:53','2012-01-19 08:15:53','&lt;-----  Guilty!!     Thanks Jeremy.  You never cease to come up with something great.     I&#039;m going to go swear at myself in the mirror now!!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,142),(1055,796,'matthew','matthew.zadow@gmail.com','','213.49.244.9','2012-01-19 01:09:57','2012-01-19 09:09:57','Dear Jonathan,\r\n\r\nI am sorry, in re-reading my comment, I realize that I was too harsh.  I just cannot help being horrified at the tragedy of this young women, squeezed dry by a cruel and uncaring music industry.  She has unfortunately had two vocal haemorrhages and yet the only thing her agents and managers seem to be interested in is making money.  Her voice to me shows unmistakable signs of being permanently damaged.\r\n\r\nTo be given the talent to create beauty and share it with others is one of our greatest, most sublime gifts, and to see it squandered as in the case of Adele cuts me to the heart.  To me \"using\" another person is one of the greatest sins..',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101203 Firefox/3.6.13','',1038,0),(1056,4145,'Serena Abdelaziz','serenasjunk@live.com','','174.29.23.121','2012-01-19 08:14:40','2012-01-19 16:14:40','God is so good.  The way you write makes me feel like I was right there, in the presence of God. Even the idea of listening in as He speaks to you about your destiny in Him.  May He continue to hold your hand and speak words of affirmation to your spirit.  Love you!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,0),(1057,4320,'Wayne Rumsby','wayne@rumsby.ca','http://markysroom.blogspot.com','99.231.82.159','2012-01-19 08:15:53','2012-01-19 16:15:53','\"...hope nudged me to share...\" I love this, it\'s exactly what motivated me to write my bit.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,137),(1058,4314,'Wayne Rumsby','wayne@rumsby.ca','http://markysroom.blogspot.com','99.231.82.159','2012-01-19 08:50:32','2012-01-19 16:50:32','This is a great piece, I like your style. \r\n\r\nAs for hope, I think it is too often confused with wishing. \r\n\r\nAs for Kingdom Come, I grew up in a time and place, where dispensationalism was to bible study as ketchup is to fries. I am damaged goods in that area.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,137),(1059,4284,'Wayne Rumsby','wayne@rumsby.ca','http://markysroom.blogspot.com','99.231.82.159','2012-01-19 09:00:48','2012-01-19 17:00:48','Two authors, not present in this discussion, come to mind. Greg Boyd, Perfect Present and Tim Huff, Dancing with Dynamite. Tim get\'s into what it really means to give up.\r\n\r\nNice word ordering.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,137),(1060,4277,'Wayne Rumsby','wayne@rumsby.ca','http://markysroom.blogspot.com','99.231.82.159','2012-01-19 09:18:25','2012-01-19 17:18:25','I think hope is a very present experience. Hope is the linear connecting of the dots, those learning moments, on the messy spiral of life. Thanks Kathy.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,137),(1061,4115,'Liz Dyer','lizdyer55@gmail.com','http://gracerules.wordpress.com/','63.240.122.129','2012-01-19 09:26:30','2012-01-19 17:26:30','Glenn - I love the idea of being actively hopeful because I often think of hoping as a passive thing.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,132),(1062,4284,'Liz Dyer','lizdyer55@gmail.com','http://gracerules.wordpress.com/','63.240.122.129','2012-01-19 10:04:13','2012-01-19 18:04:13','Wayne,  I am familiar with Boyd but not with Tim Huff.  I will check him out.  Thanks.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',1059,132),(1063,4145,'Rick','rickmorganwwjd@yahoo.com','http://www.diggingtheword.blogspot.com/','192.76.82.89','2012-01-19 10:28:53','2012-01-19 18:28:53','It is difficult for us to love what God loves, he loves the empty, the poor, the weak, the last. Good post.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,0),(1064,4314,'K.W. Leslie','kw.leslie@gmail.com','http://morechrist.blogspot.com','71.198.65.89','2012-01-19 10:54:51','2012-01-19 18:54:51','I grew up Dispensationalist myself. In my experience, it was more like throw out the fries and drink the ketchup.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1058,0),(1065,4233,'Wayne Rumsby','wayne@rumsby.ca','http://markysroom.blogspot.com','99.231.82.159','2012-01-19 11:36:07','2012-01-19 19:36:07','I\'ve heard his name enough now that I know I\'ve gotta get me some of that Moltmann.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,137),(1066,4211,'Wayne Rumsby','wayne@rumsby.ca','http://markysroom.blogspot.com','99.231.82.159','2012-01-19 11:46:30','2012-01-19 19:46:30','\"Not simply as optimism or a naive clinging to fantasies, but as something that would constantly transform me from the inside out even if the world around me stayed the same.\"\r\n\r\nNice.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,137),(1067,4115,'Glenn Hager','glennhager1@gmail.com','http://glennhager1.wordpress.com','76.245.207.7','2012-01-19 11:59:24','2012-01-19 19:59:24','Wayne - I wrote the \"ranty\" paragraph a few weeks ago in an effort to to both summarize my observations and clarify the need for improvement in a few areas. I wish it weren\'t all true, but I know that we can do better. That\'s my hope. I hope that I can be as \"loud\" in dealing with solutions and improvements, as I was in describing the problems.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',1043,144),(1068,4042,'Wayne Rumsby','wayne@rumsby.ca','http://markysroom.blogspot.com','99.231.82.159','2012-01-19 12:01:01','2012-01-19 20:01:01','I\'ve spent the day wandering through each of the essays which make up this synchroblog. It\'s a little like an open stage, or maybe more like an art gallery. I\'m not thinking big fancy art gallery. In Toronto terms I\'m thinking more like Queen Street, rather than the AGO. Those galleries that occupy old store fronts from a century past, where indy artists hang their ideas out to dry. As I wander, i sometimes stop to sign the guest book. This is a lovely show, thanks all.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,137),(1069,4115,'Glenn Hager','glennhager1@gmail.com','http://glennhager1.wordpress.com','76.245.207.7','2012-01-19 12:01:05','2012-01-19 20:01:05','Liz - It was something that I needed to say to encourage myself, though I stand my it. We can be actively hopeful!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',1061,144),(1070,4115,'Wayne Rumsby','wayne@rumsby.ca','http://markysroom.blogspot.com','99.231.82.159','2012-01-19 12:12:49','2012-01-19 20:12:49','Hope Activist, I like it too. I wonder if that gets you on a list somewhere ;-)\r\n\r\nIt really bothers me that hope and wish are synonymous. I like the idea that hope is grounded in belief. Wishing is for lotteries and good looks, hope is despite reality.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,137),(1071,4320,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2012-01-19 13:06:11','2012-01-19 21:06:11','Well said Adam. I think that contentment is good, but I also think that I often confuse complacency with contentment and THAT is where hope goes to die.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',1016,30),(1072,4320,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2012-01-19 13:06:56','2012-01-19 21:06:56','I look forward to the journey! There are some exciting days ahead, I can feel it!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',1023,30),(1073,4320,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2012-01-19 13:12:24','2012-01-19 21:12:24','Indeed - I think that many of us struggle with the idea that it\'s okay to hope. It\'s certainly a goal of mine to embrace that more and more!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; Trident/5.0)','',1035,30),(1074,4320,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2012-01-19 13:13:27','2012-01-19 21:13:27','Indeed - I think it\'s something that many of us struggle with. I welcome your companionship along the way!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; Trident/5.0)','',1035,30),(1075,4320,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2012-01-19 13:15:29','2012-01-19 21:15:29','That possibility of disappointment is hard, but without hope, we often don\'t DO. And since that\'s my word this year, it\'s important for me to get out there and DO. So there will have to be some hope mixed in.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; Trident/5.0)','',1042,30),(1076,4320,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2012-01-19 13:17:13','2012-01-19 21:17:13','When I acknowledge hope, I it can open up a lot of possibilities. Thank you for your comment!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; Trident/5.0)','',1057,30),(1141,4431,'Andrew Kukla','andrew.kukla@palmschurch.org','','66.147.15.5','2012-01-23 09:20:27','2012-01-23 17:20:27','I think that is a very good question.  And I certainly cannot \"answer\" it.  But here are some thoughts in response:\r\n\r\nIf - the question itself is based on a previous reply, does God actually send people to hell?  I know people will answer this in radically different ways, and many - if not most - will use the Bible to arrive at those responses.  But three quick pieces jump to mind as important thoughts on that BIG IF.  \r\n\r\nIn Hosea 11 God \"remembers\" that God is not mortal but God, and that God can decide to forgo retributive justice for mercy and redemptive love.  So God, prepared to \"reign hell\" in a way, stops God\'s self from doing so out of divine mercy.  \r\n\r\nSimilarly when Jesus greets \"doubting\" Thomas post-resurrection Jesus tells us (through the foil of Thomas) that he would like that we would have believed without needing to see, but that won\'t stop God from getting redemptive faith by any means necessary - even if it means needing to touch wounds, or descending into Hell itself.\r\n\r\nThirdly that Psalm 139 builds on that thought, blend in a bit of 1 Peter 3 if you read it that way, and you get the idea that perhaps hell isn\'t any more final judgement than a mid-term grade in school.  The Psalmist says, that regardless of ascending into heavens or lying in Sheol, God is there.  So maybe we need to rethinking what exactly hell is anyway.  It doesn\'t seem to me that hell is any more able to limit God\'s forgiveness than retributive justice is, and that the constant abiding story is that no depth can separate us from love - not even the depths of hell.  \r\n\r\nIs it true that there are other stories that can demonstrate non-forgiveness in God? Yes.  This is part of the challenge of Christian faith - ambiguity abides and flourishes.  \r\n\r\nBut if the Cross and Resurrection stand at the center of our faith and the self-revelation of God than the story through which all other Christian rhetoric, story, and truth needs to be viewed is one of a God who descended and emptied God\'s self of divine separateness, descended to the point of humiliating death on behalf of the world, descended into Hell on behalf of healing and wholeness for all. And then rose again in a testimony of abundant life.  \r\n\r\nGod invites us to do as God has done for us, not a command of something God was unwilling to model in God\'s own life, but to share in that overflowing life that is wrapped up in humility, love, forgiveness, healing, and blessing of the brokenness that abounds but is nevertheless not the end of the story.  \r\n\r\nAnd I could be absolutely and completely off track... but I do not believe so - whether I have seen it or not.  Love to you my anonymous friend.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1077,4114,'Mike Victorino','bobbavicto@gmail.com','http://www.stillanightowl.wordpress.com','69.59.125.230','2012-01-19 22:10:46','2012-01-20 06:10:46','Adam.   Nice to hear your \"voice\" again.   I have shared some of your struggles with you and I can say from my vantage point that your patience and calm demeanor has always been something that I would love to be able to emulate.    Of course, I have to keep learning patience every day......hmm.  Wonder why??',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,142),(1078,4115,'Mike Victorino','bobbavicto@gmail.com','http://www.stillanightowl.wordpress.com','69.59.125.230','2012-01-19 22:14:26','2012-01-20 06:14:26','I love it Glenn.   Well vented!!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,142),(1079,4206,'Mike Victorino','bobbavicto@gmail.com','http://www.stillanightowl.wordpress.com','69.59.125.230','2012-01-19 22:19:16','2012-01-20 06:19:16','Travis ~ I am very touched at your feelings because I once shared them; and still do.  I have a four year old boy who is adopted and he is the absolute joy of my life.  The journey toward his adoption was long, hard, stressful and expensive but I can tell you that when he smiles and giggles and calls me daddy, it was all worth it.      I wish the best for you in this journey you\'ve undertaken and I applaud you for it!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,142),(1080,4277,'Mike Victorino','bobbavicto@gmail.com','http://www.stillanightowl.wordpress.com','69.59.125.230','2012-01-19 22:26:40','2012-01-20 06:26:40','Thanks Kathy.  As always, you have come up with a highly inspiring post.  Alhough I think that my spiral might be wound a little more tight!!    :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,142),(1081,4145,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://www.quietanthem.com/','75.71.99.63','2012-01-20 10:11:21','2012-01-20 18:11:21','Thank you, Serena. I love you, too. May His destiny be revealed in you.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',1056,102),(1082,4145,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://www.quietanthem.com/','75.71.99.63','2012-01-20 10:12:31','2012-01-20 18:12:31','Indeed. But His grace (and the hope of said grace) allows us to see ourselves as He sees us. Thank you, Rick.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',1063,102),(1083,4065,'Glenn Hager','glennhager1@gmail.com','http://glennhager1.wordpress.com','76.245.207.7','2012-01-20 10:26:50','2012-01-20 18:26:50','Me too!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,144),(1084,4004,'Janis','janis.purdy@provincialadvocate.on.ca','','207.112.9.146','2012-01-20 12:22:06','2012-01-20 20:22:06','Brought tears to my eyes! Beautiful writing. Thank you.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,0),(1085,4004,'Camille Sobalvarro','csobalvarro@gmail.com','http://blog.realfaitharts.com','71.146.132.171','2012-01-20 12:30:14','2012-01-20 20:30:14','\"isn’t idealism the structural helix of a healthy imagination?\"\r\n\r\nTHAT is such a beautiful way of looking at it, and I believe it\'s true.  Thanks for such a beautiful telling of a personal story that demonstrates truth for us all.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,126),(1086,4331,'kathyescobar','kathy@therefugeonline.org','http://www.kathyescobar.com','97.118.175.86','2012-01-20 12:34:21','2012-01-20 20:34:21','people are awesome.  so much to learn from small interactions &amp; big conversations if we just let go and enjoy our uniqueness.  thanks for the reminder.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,18),(1087,4211,'kathyescobar','kathy@therefugeonline.org','http://www.kathyescobar.com','97.118.175.86','2012-01-20 12:39:46','2012-01-20 20:39:46','thanks for sharing. i didn\'t know you had twins, too.  mine are 12 now.  time flies.  i like your line \"hope can be a bitch, too..\" it makes us feel and long in ways that are scary. i always say it\'s dangerous, in a good but scary way.  it takes guts to hope.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,18),(1088,3587,'kathyescobar','kathy@therefugeonline.org','http://www.kathyescobar.com','97.118.175.86','2012-01-20 12:43:13','2012-01-20 20:43:13','beautiful piece.  thank you for sharing so honestly.  i love what you said about finding deep peace underneath hope.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,18),(1089,4004,'kathyescobar','kathy@therefugeonline.org','http://www.kathyescobar.com','97.118.175.86','2012-01-20 12:47:14','2012-01-20 20:47:14','wayne, what a beautiful &amp; powerful post.  thank you for sharing.   shifting our equations can change everything. i love the new ones you plugged in there, possibility &amp; imagination.  so good.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,18),(1090,4055,'kathyescobar','kathy@therefugeonline.org','http://www.kathyescobar.com','97.118.175.86','2012-01-20 12:51:39','2012-01-20 20:51:39','what a beautiful piece. i am not a winter person at heart. i don\'t like it for all kinds of reasons but i am learning to embrace the bigger story of winter and how much i can learn from it.  your post reminded me of that.  (ps: super funny image, thinking about coffee going through God\'s nose from laughing about you! :))',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,18),(1091,4046,'kathyescobar','kathy@therefugeonline.org','http://www.kathyescobar.com','97.118.175.86','2012-01-20 12:54:17','2012-01-20 20:54:17','thanks, jonathan.  i like that reminder of remembering what\'s underneath it all, really. underneath all our constructs and things we can try to articulate.   good synchroblog, clearly a really great topic for the new year!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,18),(1092,4277,'kathyescobar','kathy@therefugeonline.org','http://www.kathyescobar.com','97.118.175.86','2012-01-20 12:57:07','2012-01-20 20:57:07','yeah, for me, this synchroblog was about writing what was bringing me hope right now.  this awareness is.   like so many things, hope can look so different for people, and this is just what feels hopeful to me.  thanks for sharing your perspective.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',1032,18),(1093,4277,'kathyescobar','kathy@therefugeonline.org','http://www.kathyescobar.com','97.118.175.86','2012-01-20 12:59:29','2012-01-20 20:59:29','oops, somehow the comment i wrote never made it there.  thanks for sharing your reflection. for me, this synchroblog was just about what was bringing me hope right now.  that\'s the perspective i wrote it from; i think hope looks so different for different people.  this is just what\'s hopeful &amp; sustaining for me at the moment.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',1032,18),(1094,4277,'kathyescobar','kathy@therefugeonline.org','http://www.kathyescobar.com','97.118.175.86','2012-01-20 13:01:16','2012-01-20 21:01:16','thanks, wayne!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',1060,18),(1095,4277,'kathyescobar','kathy@therefugeonline.org','http://www.kathyescobar.com','97.118.175.86','2012-01-20 13:01:56','2012-01-20 21:01:56','no kidding, mine come up and back around pretty quick, too, ha ha :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',1080,18),(1096,4424,'Tami Weinert','t.weinert@comcast.net','','71.202.34.164','2012-01-20 16:19:30','2012-01-21 00:19:30','I wiil check it out, Camille. You are so right. Check it out before you share your opinions and save yourself an awkward apology. More importantly, you could save yourself from leading someone else astray. ',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,0),(1097,4233,'Camille Sobalvarro','csobalvarro@gmail.com','http://blog.realfaitharts.com','71.146.132.171','2012-01-20 17:57:06','2012-01-21 01:57:06','Your comments on reading really resonate with me. I find there are some books, good ones, I read through quickly and learn from. Then there are others, and you can usually know it in just a few minutes, where you\'re not in a hurry. You dread getting to the last page. Where the words are not just informative, but therapeutic. The gift reading is inspires me in writing. it\'s a gift.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,126),(1098,4065,'kathyescobar','kathy@therefugeonline.org','http://www.kathyescobar.com','97.118.175.86','2012-01-20 22:09:53','2012-01-21 06:09:53','whoa, that was powerful jeremy. thank you.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,18),(1099,4074,'kathyescobar','kathy@therefugeonline.org','http://www.kathyescobar.com','97.118.175.86','2012-01-20 22:14:21','2012-01-21 06:14:21','that\'s my favorite christmas carol.  there\'s something about morning, too, a  new day that always dawns, God\'s mercies new every morning. thank you for sharing.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,18),(1100,4090,'kathyescobar','kathy@therefugeonline.org','http://www.kathyescobar.com','97.118.175.86','2012-01-20 22:16:34','2012-01-21 06:16:34','this was a really pretty post, carol.  i love that last line of wendell berry\'s poem \"keep going toward that blessed light that yet to us is dark....\"  so good. thank you for sharing.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,18),(1101,4424,'PQ','pjuquezada@yahoo.com','','24.4.83.162','2012-01-21 07:19:28','2012-01-21 15:19:28','Good job, Camille.  You make great points and it was mature of you to look beyond the surface, deeper to get to the facts.  Unfortunately, we\'ve let technology move us  into a world of quick reactions rather than spending the extra time to find out the details.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1102,4424,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2012-01-21 08:31:02','2012-01-21 16:31:02','\"people from differing theological corners have an insanely difficult time communicating effectively. \"  feel you there.  trying to talk about anything online feels divisive and tawdry at this point even while trying to be civil, and working to be intelligent, thoughtful or theological.  it\'s so hard!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,64),(1103,4114,'Adam Gonnerman','gonnerman@burntmail.com','http://missionaljourneyman.com','68.39.10.145','2012-01-21 08:56:36','2012-01-21 16:56:36','Mike! It\'s been too long. I\'m not sure how calm I am in person, but I try to stay focused. Some days are more of a challenge than others.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:5.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/5.0','',0,0),(1104,3975,'Johnny Douglas','revjohnnydouglas@gmail.com','http://www.johnnydouglas.org','78.145.18.192','2012-01-21 10:11:05','2012-01-21 18:11:05','Great stuff here Chloe. Lovely to hear the fruit of \'less as more\' in your life..... Great to see you flourishing in 2012!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1105,3975,'Chloe Lynch','theartofsteering@gmail.com','http://theartofsteering.wordpress.com','94.193.36.193','2012-01-21 10:18:33','2012-01-21 18:18:33','Thanks, Johnny.  Here\'s to an even deeper working out of the \'less as more\' in all our lives!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',1104,119),(1106,4179,'Carol Kuniholm','ckuniholm@verizon.net','http://wordshalfheard.blogspot.com','68.238.248.159','2012-01-21 10:48:41','2012-01-21 18:48:41','Your conversation with friends sounds wonderful - and what a challenging idea to play with. I\'m halfway through my sixth decade - and hadn\'t really paused to think of it like that. But I love the idea of spiritual eldering, and have been touched by how many are hungry for that, and appreciate even the little bit of wisdom I have to offer. Wisdom may not be the right word: long-term experience of God\'s faithfulness in what may appear like disaster.\r\nThanks for sharing this. It encourages me to continue in my own journey of eldering, and to invite others to consider it with me as I go.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1107,4046,'Mihee','miheekk@gmail.com','http://www.miheekimkort.com','24.1.105.103','2012-01-21 11:03:21','2012-01-21 19:03:21','I like your process, and the way you discover the depth of hope in a new and simple way. Thought-provoking...',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1108,4065,'Mihee','miheekk@gmail.com','http://www.miheekimkort.com','24.1.105.103','2012-01-21 11:05:59','2012-01-21 19:05:59','Crazy twist at the end, and really effective. Love the line about the gap.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1109,4074,'Mihee','miheekk@gmail.com','http://www.miheekimkort.com','24.1.105.103','2012-01-21 11:09:02','2012-01-21 19:09:02','I like the way you \"play with hope.\" Lovely images and words, and very accurate; it definitely resonates.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1110,4090,'Mihee','miheekk@gmail.com','http://www.miheekimkort.com','24.1.105.103','2012-01-21 11:12:28','2012-01-21 19:12:28','I loved how you bookended this with such beautiful poetry...a really thick and heady post, also poetic.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1111,4106,'Mihee','miheekk@gmail.com','http://www.miheekimkort.com','24.1.105.103','2012-01-21 11:14:33','2012-01-21 19:14:33','I love that phrase \"be the miracle.\" Thinking I\'m going to hold onto that as a mom-mantra.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1112,4114,'Mihee','miheekk@gmail.com','http://www.miheekimkort.com','24.1.105.103','2012-01-21 11:17:26','2012-01-21 19:17:26','What a neat story, and your organization sounds amazing.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1113,4115,'Mihee','miheekk@gmail.com','http://www.miheekimkort.com','24.1.105.103','2012-01-21 11:18:54','2012-01-21 19:18:54','Articulate so much of what I have felt in my own life in different seasons.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1114,4145,'Mihee','miheekk@gmail.com','http://www.miheekimkort.com','24.1.105.103','2012-01-21 11:21:08','2012-01-21 19:21:08','There\'s such music in your writing.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1115,4397,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-01-21 11:25:13','2012-01-21 19:25:13','Ray, I have been one of those casualties several times, ignored because I made people uncomfortable with my depression, addiction, radical deviations from the \"Christian norm\".  But I also know I\'m guilty of feeling God nudge me to help someone else who is hurting, and I didn\'t because I was busy or didn\'t want to be bothered, or hoped someone else would intervene.\r\n\r\nGod doesn\'t call me to help every hurting person, but for those He nudges me to help, I AM responsible, and there is only a window of time before the opportunity closes.\r\n\r\nHere\'s something my 26-yr-old daughter messaged me today.  I\'m humbled and grateful for it, because she and I have been through hell together her entire life. That makes what she wrote especially sweet, because she describes the God she met through me.  I don\'t know if she wrote this or copied it, but it mirrors what your\'ve stated here.\r\n\r\n\"If I asked God to get in his car and drive 30 minutes to a random location to come have a drink with me.....just so we could talk.....would he join me at happy hour?  If I asked God to step outside.....so I could end a long day with a cigarette and a soap box.....would he cancel his prior engagements and come sit next to me on a park bench on a rainy day?  I bet he would.....I bet my life he would.....because that\'s what kind of God I know.....at the end of the day.....I\'d like to think you taught me one thing, Mama.....judgement is as evil as any other crime the human race can achieve.....and I\'d like to think that understanding that we are all human would benefit anyone.....my best friend would do the same for me.....my true best friend.....you\'re one of my best friends.....I love you.\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,35),(1116,4046,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.5.246.252','2012-01-21 11:29:50','2012-01-21 19:29:50','Liz, the love of God just feels so much better than my own belief.  Do you feel that way too?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1004,1),(1117,4046,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.5.246.252','2012-01-21 11:32:52','2012-01-21 19:32:52','Thanks for your kind words...as you always give. Hope is such a great and intangible but life-giving thing.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1091,1),(1118,4046,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.5.246.252','2012-01-21 11:33:37','2012-01-21 19:33:37','Thank you Mihee.  Simple it was not but it was life giving.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1107,1),(1119,4397,'Jan Fischer','janfischer66@gmail.com','http://www.reverbnation.com/lebensartmusic','178.10.194.216','2012-01-21 12:22:03','2012-01-21 20:22:03','As the investigations reveal further details of the accident it looks like that the captains behavior and consequent failure cannot be regarded as a one persons fault or a singular event. The captain was part of system where it was known and tolerated that ships again and again took a route that brought them dangerously close to the island. In my humble opinion it is therefor to simple to just blame the captain for the catastrophe.\r\nLikewise with the church. It is not mainly the fault of the individual church member to neglect those who go overboard but a flaw in the way many churches are set up and run: mainly concerned with their own salvation, busy with subcultural activities and with no real connection or concern for the world, people and culture it is surrounded by.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko)  Iron/13.0.800.0 Chrome/13.0.800.0 Safari/535.1','',0,0),(1120,4489,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.5.246.252','2012-01-21 12:37:34','2012-01-21 12:37:34','Do you have a higher res image of the book cover?',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','editorial-comment',0,0),(1121,3562,'melinda','a.2.refrain@gmail.com','http://melindaguerra.myadventures.org','75.207.240.45','2012-01-21 13:07:54','2012-01-21 21:07:54','Hey Amy \r\nThanks for this.  My education was as a youth minister and I have always felt uncomfortable with the way modesty and sexuality and our embodiment of each, are given to our young people in particular (and then used to create foundations for the way we view these things as we get older).  \r\n\r\nI\'ve been doing a lot of re-framing of things, finding just how far I have to go to deconstruct the things (spoken and non) that impact how I view and express my sexuality and that of others.  Your article serves as a perfect way to start people thinking about there, through the door of modesty.  \r\n\r\nThanks for writing and for asking for more of us.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1122,4397,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.145.12','2012-01-21 13:43:38','2012-01-21 21:43:38','Joy, great reflection. And I\'m so glad that God doesn\'t forgive and love like we tend to. That\'s why we\'re told to be imitators of God, I suppose. Great text by your daughter as well.\r\n\r\nJan, excellent observation and addition. The problem is one of the culture within the church. Many times I don\'t think that we realize we act that way. In fact, we think it\'s normal to treat those who go overboard in that manner. Honestly, many of the behaviors we show in church, which are downright un-Christlike, have been ingrained into us not by any lesson of Scripture, but by our tradition. A lot of the way we do things is very similar to the way the Pharisees and Scribes - the \"blind guides\" who thought they were perfectly fine and thought Christ was the fanatic.\r\n\r\nGreat stuff by both of you, thank you.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,12),(1123,4397,'Camille Sobalvarro','csobalvarro@gmail.com','http://blog.realfaitharts.com','71.146.132.171','2012-01-21 13:55:46','2012-01-21 21:55:46','I love cruise ships. I also love the church. For the most part cruise ships do a pretty good job of keeping people on board, and they rarely push anybody off on purpose. In churches however, I\'d say it\'s not uncommon that people with certain kinds of wounds (or just differences) are not only not helped back on board, but they\'re actively pushed out into the open sea! We need better rescue services available!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,126),(1124,4211,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://www.quietanthem.com/','75.71.99.63','2012-01-21 14:03:51','2012-01-21 22:03:51','I share your misgivings about seeing your children endure middle school (and all the other stages of adolescence that make life less worth while). Perhaps with the hope we inspire in them, they\'ll be less susceptible to any naysayers of culture or creed.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,102),(1125,4145,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://www.quietanthem.com/','75.71.99.63','2012-01-21 14:09:09','2012-01-21 22:09:09','Thank you, Mihee. I\'m married to a composer. :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',1114,102),(1126,4065,'Jeremy Myers','jmyers@tillhecomes.org','http://www.tillhecomes.org','24.47.173.38','2012-01-21 14:57:47','2012-01-21 22:57:47','Don\'t be too hard on yourself. And watch that bad language! Ha!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',1054,0),(1127,4065,'Jeremy Myers','jmyers@tillhecomes.org','http://www.tillhecomes.org','24.47.173.38','2012-01-21 14:58:45','2012-01-21 22:58:45','Thanks, Kathy. I have had a crazy, busy week, so haven\'t had a chance yet to get around and read everyone else\'s. Hopefully in the next day or two.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',1098,0),(1128,4065,'Jeremy Myers','jmyers@tillhecomes.org','http://www.tillhecomes.org','24.47.173.38','2012-01-21 15:00:15','2012-01-21 23:00:15','Thanks Mihee. \r\n\r\nI do think we need to show grace and forgiveness even to ourselves. All change begins with wanting to change, and the actual change sometimes lags behind a bit...',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',1108,0),(1129,3677,'Casper','casperdenck@gmail.com','http://www.nicodemist.com','62.255.199.1','2012-01-21 16:43:13','2012-01-22 00:43:13','Isn\'t the real issue then less a case of Church\'s losing their tax exemption rather than the failure to forsake it? \r\n\r\nIt\'s certainly not a US issue alone, in the UK we have the sme challenge.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,0),(1130,4106,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2012-01-21 18:42:52','2012-01-22 02:42:52','Me too!  I loved it when I heard it.  It has stuck with me all these years.  That\'s what I want my life to look like--to be the miracle.  Thanks for the reminder that it begins at home, even with our own kids.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1111,43),(1140,4465,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.5.246.252','2012-01-22 21:35:35','2012-01-23 05:35:35','KW, I\'m very inclined to agree with you.  I think the tension is when we try and make our denomination that \"right\" one.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1138,1),(1132,4465,'Camille Sobalvarro','csobalvarro@gmail.com','http://blog.realfaitharts.com','71.146.132.171','2012-01-22 10:09:37','2012-01-22 18:09:37','I\'ve struggled with the idea of denominations, church plants in areas with lots of churches, church splits, and all the other things that cause the number of congregations to sometimes seem to mirror the number of congregants ;)  I\'d contend there are lots of bad reasons that have contributed to the 30,000+ denominations we have today. But I really don\'t think it\'s all bad. The deeper I go in faith the bigger God becomes, but people stay small. And while God is infinite, we are very, very finite. Because of that we are also all very different from each other, and that\'s okay... In fact it\'s good. It\'s by design. So it actually seems quite right to me that, as different as we are, diversity in style, in emphasis, even in understanding is necessary as we seek to know an infinite God in our finite capacities. Some people need the structure of liturgy. Some people need the systematic theology of Calvin. Some people need the emotional freedom of Pentecostalism. Where we run into trouble perhaps is in our desire to say we are right to the exclusion of others. Rather, perhaps we are right with the inclusion of others.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,126),(1133,4115,'Glenn Hager','glennhager1@gmail.com','http://glennhager1.wordpress.com','76.245.207.7','2012-01-22 10:20:34','2012-01-22 18:20:34','Thanks Wayne! I am sure that I must be on some lists somewhere, but they are most likely \"naught\"y lists.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',1070,144),(1134,4115,'Glenn Hager','glennhager1@gmail.com','http://glennhager1.wordpress.com','76.245.207.7','2012-01-22 10:21:31','2012-01-22 18:21:31','Mike - I feel some better. Now to do something about it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',1078,144),(1135,4115,'Glenn Hager','glennhager1@gmail.com','http://glennhager1.wordpress.com','76.245.207.7','2012-01-22 10:22:32','2012-01-22 18:22:32','That means a lot to me. Thank you, Mihee!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',1113,144),(1136,4397,'Jan Fischer','janfischer66@gmail.com','http://www.reverbnation.com/lebensartmusic','178.10.118.118','2012-01-22 13:18:48','2012-01-22 21:18:48','maybe we need to ask why so many go over board...',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko)  Iron/13.0.800.0 Chrome/13.0.800.0 Safari/535.1','',1123,0),(1137,4284,'Glenn Hager','glennhager1@gmail.com','http://glennhager1.wordpress.com','76.245.207.7','2012-01-22 13:36:18','2012-01-22 21:36:18','Liz - This really hit home with me and was something that I needed to hear. It is an old message about being true to your heart and enjoying the journey, but it is so easy to forget. Well said!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,144),(1138,4465,'K.W. Leslie','kw.leslie@gmail.com','http://morechrist.blogspot.com','71.198.65.89','2012-01-22 17:47:42','2012-01-23 01:47:42','I\'m fairly certain Jesus <i>does</i> visit all those 30,000+ plus denominations every day; at least every place where two or more are gathered in his name.\r\n\r\nI don\'t think he likes all of them. It\'s not the liturgy or lack thereof; he could care less about those things per se. It\'s the authenticity of the people there. Are they participating in the forms of worship because they\'re pursuing a closer connection to God? Or are they doing it because their church is right and all other churches are wrong? Jesus is no fan of spiritual arrogance; the parable of the Pharisee and publican comes to mind. Those who come to worship with a sense of \"Christ have mercy\" are the folks he delights in and can work with, whatever their stripe.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,150),(1139,3562,'Kristen','kristenrosser@hotmail.com','http://krwordgazer.blogspot.com','97.125.27.44','2012-01-22 21:20:54','2012-01-23 05:20:54','Bravo!  Well said.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1; Trident/4.0; FunWebProducts; GTB7.2; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; eMusic DLM/4; SpamBlockerUtility 4.8.4; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; BRI/2)','',0,0),(1142,3562,'Laura','thirsty40@gmail.com','http://bodytheologyblog.wordpress.com','68.6.89.186','2012-01-23 15:31:47','2012-01-23 23:31:47','Thanks for sharing this. I grew up as a good-Christian-girl with many of those messages and had a real complex about my appearance and dress because of my fear that showing any part of my body would cause some man to sin.  I felt completely powerless to control what men think and do while at the same time completely responsible for it.  It\'s true that we can\'t control what other people think and do, but they are responsible for their own thoughts and actions, just as we are responsible for ours.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,0),(1143,4431,'K.W. Leslie','kw.leslie@gmail.com','http://morechrist.blogspot.com','71.198.65.89','2012-01-23 17:46:33','2012-01-24 01:46:33','First of all, God offers us forgiveness <i>now</i>. He\'s not putting it off till Judgment Day, when he has to determine once and for all whether we\'re to head to heaven or hell. He\'s decided <i>now</i> that humans are not irredeemable, that grace is extended to everyone, that we can embrace it and live in his Kingdom and pass forgiveness forward to one another and the world. Talking about God\'s lack of forgiveness at the End is like a homeowner whose parents have sent him $10,000 a month for years to make mortgage payments (and then some), but he spent all that money on crack, the bank foreclosed, and now he\'s furious at his parents for not being able to bail him out... and incidentally, keep the crack money coming.\r\n\r\nBut okay, let\'s discuss forgiveness on that day. Say someone came up to you and said, \"I forgive you for bathing every day, even though in my religion, my god says we\'re only to bathe on the Sabbath.\" Your reasonable (though unkind) response would be, \"What kind of weird god do you follow, and why do I need your forgiveness? Buzz off.\"\r\n\r\nIf we don\'t know God, or don\'t care to; if we have no relationship with him, then forgiveness is neither offered nor accepted. If God bothered to offer it, we\'d blow it off. Even if we were expecting heaven. Of course, the heaven such people would expect would have nothing like forgiveness in it: We\'d still expect to live however we wished, with no changes to our behavior, and with nobody judging us. Now, considering the different tastes and interests of everyone on the planet, how realistic is that idea? For any such world to work, we\'d <i>need</i> forgiveness. But pagans don\'t consider that; their vision of heaven is one where everything conforms to <i>them</i>. That doesn\'t sound at all like heaven. That sounds like a fascist dictatorship. Or hell. Wicked either way.\r\n\r\nHence Jesus teaches that if we don\'t forgive others, God won\'t forgive us. If we can\'t live <i>now</i> like people in the Kingdom ought, we can\'t live <i>then</i> like people in heaven ought. God doesn\'t put the wicked into hell just to punish them; he puts them there to spare everyone else the hell that they will turn heaven into. And frankly, they won\'t want to live in God\'s heaven anyway. Too many rules. They never followed God\'s rules anyway. Hell has no rules; that\'ll suit them just fine.\r\n\r\nI\'d like to believe, as brother Andrew speculates, that hell isn\'t the end of it; that they might repent someday and get out of it. But in my experience people, unless something huge changes them, become more and more like the idealized version of themselves that they\'ve invented (or, if they\'re dysfunctional, they\'ll sabotage themselves and become less and less like it). If they like to think of themselves as right, they\'re <i>never</i> gonna accept that God is in fact the one who\'s right. They\'ll never forgive God for putting them in hell, and never leave hell. Sad, but human. Still, far be it from me to preach that God can\'t make exceptions if he wants.\r\n\r\nMeanwhile, in the Kingdom we\'re to practice living in heaven, and forgive. Any unforgiveness on our part is usually based on evil: Bitterness, anger, self-righteousness, greed, covetousness, and impatience. Any so-called \"righteous anger\" that we use to excuse unforgiveness is rarely righteous. When God withholds forgiveness it is entirely based on fairness, justice, and rightness, and we have no business trying to practice what he does because it can\'t be done without prejudice or self-interest -- which in God\'s hands is no problem because he has no prejudices, and his self-interest is nothing but love. In our hands, it\'s a huge mess.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,150),(1144,4431,'Camille Sobalvarro','csobalvarro@gmail.com','http://blog.realfaitharts.com','71.146.132.171','2012-01-23 21:14:35','2012-01-24 05:14:35','Classic line, \"If we can’t live now like people in the Kingdom ought, we can’t live then like people in heaven ought.\" Very well said!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',1143,126),(1145,2436,'stephanie','stephanie.patterson@asu.edu','','50.132.124.62','2012-01-23 22:33:34','2012-01-24 06:33:34','I have been mulling over your thoughts (and a hopeful interpretation of your intention...) for a week now. I’m new to this site, and I hope I haven’t come too late to this comment string.\r\n\r\nYes, the conversation needs to happen. But, unfortunately, I was quite put off by a lot of what you said. I found myself physically reacting to many of the words above, especially when folks would comment and you chose not to listen from your position as an outsider to the situation (i.e., you are not a woman in the church), but chose instead to figuratively dig in and defend your opinion, even using the formulaic “but I can’t be ____, I did ____,” with regard to the image of God in your published work. It\'s that obstinate stance that evokes in me a torrential history of disappointment regarding the topic of equality in general, not just specifically within the (United States, Christian, Protestant, etc.) church. If what was written was not your intent, then how about a “part two” post? The topic surely is important enough for more airtime, even if your call to action is littered with “maybes.” Or have I missed your part two? I would love to carry on the conversation, and I am now reading through other articles on your site.\r\n\r\nThere are so many pieces of this conversation that must continue, but, for now, I will branch off in one direction and ask if you’ve seen or heard about the documentary \"Miss Representation.\" It’s about women in the media, but I am interested in your thoughts on it. It recently was released in its entirety on YouTube, which you can find here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGlSkdKzolo. I bring up this film because it highlights how pervasive gender inequality is in this country. As for your question of the point of gender…well, that could be part three.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(1146,2436,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.5.246.252','2012-01-23 22:48:13','2012-01-24 06:48:13','Stephanie, this was a process of me being honest, but I have never been more misunderstood in six years of blogging than in this post.  But I take responsibility for that because they are MY words. They were not well said. You don\'t know me so you can\'t know my history with standing up for and with women.  I created this space (Provoketive) to give voice to these types of conversations.  They are not always kind, or fun, and perhaps more awkward.  There is a tremendous amount of tension between the sexes that can stir with a single word. Yet I agree we need to talk about them.\n\nPerhaps you are right and this content deserves another post to share some of my deeper thoughts. And perhaps you\'d like to contribute to the conversation as well.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1145,1),(1148,4114,'Adam Gonnerman','gonnerman@burntmail.com','http://missionaljourneyman.com','208.92.44.113','2012-01-24 09:54:21','2012-01-24 17:54:21','Thanks Mihee!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',1112,141),(1149,4465,'Adam Gonnerman','gonnerman@burntmail.com','http://missionaljourneyman.com','208.92.44.113','2012-01-24 09:58:09','2012-01-24 17:58:09','Humility is essential, but I wouldn\'t be part of a church fellowship unless I was inclined to think it was more \"right\" than others. Not only in theory, but in practice.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,141),(1150,4465,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','64.134.224.88','2012-01-24 10:19:26','2012-01-24 18:19:26','Adam, is there a difference between \"right\" and life giving?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1149,1),(1151,4465,'Adam Gonnerman','gonnerman@burntmail.com','http://missionaljourneyman.com','208.92.44.113','2012-01-24 11:01:30','2012-01-24 19:01:30','By \"right\" I mean in faith and practice equally. Expectations of discipleship individually and the congregation as a whole. I\'ve been down the road of preoccupation with theory and failure in practice, and don\'t care to go there again.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',1150,141),(1152,4465,'Adam Gonnerman','gonnerman@burntmail.com','http://missionaljourneyman.com','208.92.44.113','2012-01-24 11:02:44','2012-01-24 19:02:44','I also don\'t mean to imply that any congregation is perfect or that one denomination is the best for everyone. I know sisters and brothers in different branches of my own movement that would not be comfortable where I am, but who do well where they are.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',1151,141),(1153,3704,'K.W. Leslie','kw.leslie@gmail.com','http://morechrist.blogspot.com','71.198.65.89','2012-01-24 23:05:05','2012-01-25 07:05:05','I don\'t know whether you\'ve read Ronald Enroth\'s <i>Churches That Abuse</i> (<a href=\"http://www.ccel.us/churches.toc.html\" rel=\"nofollow\">found in its entirety here</a>) but it was quite an eye-opener to me, back in college, about how destructive authoritarian churches can be. Thank God I\'ve never stumbled into one.\r\n\r\nChristians go on and on about the \"cults\"--the heretic churches--but simply not enough is said about the <i>real</i> cults, the churches that may totally have their ducks in a row with their basic theology, but have completely crossed over to the dark side when it comes to control and coercion.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,150),(1154,2436,'stephanie','stephanie.patterson@asu.edu','','50.132.124.62','2012-01-24 23:15:07','2012-01-25 07:15:07','Thank you for your response, Jonathan. I would love to continue, and contribute to, the conversation.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(1155,3704,'Ian','i.mcna.ught@gmail.com','','62.61.175.238','2012-01-25 01:07:23','2012-01-25 09:07:23','Great post. I was involved with a \"5 fold\" church similar to what you describe (though definitely not as extreme). A friend of mine was involved in an African \"church\" that was a full on cult (leader sexually abusing young women in the church, my friend threatened at gun point when he said he was leaving, unexplained deaths of significant people in the church). We were sharing our experiences, and were surprised at how many of the underlying characteristics each group shared. In his they were 100 times more matured, but the roots were strikingly similar.\r\n\r\nDespite seeing this similarity, and having many serious misgivings about the teachings of my old church, I\'ve never come close to calling it a cult. It\'s a bit of a strange analogy, but I think you could liken this to consuming alcohol. At what point is someone drunk? There comes a point where someone is so under the influence that there is no doubt you can describe them as drunk - but on the way there are gradations of intoxication ranging from harmless to steaming. Power in itself is not wrong, but as you begin to become intoxicated on it, you become out of control and dangerous to others. My friends group was full on drunk, maybe my group were just mildly tipsy.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1156,3704,'Brooke Eikenberry','brooke.eikenberry@gmail.com','http://30somethingcrisis.tumblr.com/','65.190.94.26','2012-01-25 06:35:04','2012-01-25 14:35:04','It really is sad how common this situation is, isn\'t it? Glad to hear you and your friend are both out from your respective situations. Especially your friend-- wow! \r\n\r\nYour analogy works well with how cults and non-cults, as well as spiritual abuse, works more on a continuum, rather than a pure \'black\' and \'white\' mentality. I think that ministries and churches can start out at the lower end and then slowly inch their way towards the other end -- or take leaps and bounds-- if left unchecked. The trouble is finding someone whom the ministry will listen to and willing allow to speak into the situation.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',1155,48),(1157,3704,'Brooke Eikenberry','brooke.eikenberry@gmail.com','http://30somethingcrisis.tumblr.com/','65.190.94.26','2012-01-25 06:41:55','2012-01-25 14:41:55','I had not read Ronald Enroth\'s <em>Churches That Abuse</em> -- thank you so much for the link to the book in it\'s entirety. From my precursory skimming, it looks like an excellent read, especially for anyone who has found themselves within an abusive church structure or cult. I encourage other reader\'s to check it out!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',1153,48),(1158,4196,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-01-25 08:18:08','2012-01-25 16:18:08','The more we walk and talk with Jesus, the more we become like him.  I believe that\'s something Christ does IN us, resulting in the transformation of our hearts.  But it\'s still our choice to live that out in our actions. If all I do is rant and rave about injustice, but fail to extend mercy to others, I\'m simply a \"noisy gong\" as mentioned in 1 Corinthians 13:1.  But when are actions match our words, it can make a difference in someone else\'s life who then might show mercy to another person.  I know that when I treat other people like I want to be treated, it has the potential of changing the world one person at a time.  And if nothing else, it changes my world.\r\nI\'ve known cynics who refused to vote or volunteer in a soup kitchen because, \"What difference does it make?\" Then someone did a random act of kindness for them that made their day, and I saw a spark of hope light their hearts that, just maybe, being generous DOES matter.  Then they passed that spark on to someone else.\r\nI worked in the drive-through window at a Starbucks for eight years.  Several times a week, a customer would pull up and say, \"I\'d like to pay for the car behind me.\"  When the next car came to the window, I always said, \"You have just been visited by the Coffee Fairy.  The person in front of you paid for your order just to do something nice for you.  You can repay them by doing something kind for someone else today.\"  Reactions ranged between shock and tears.  And frequently they said, \"Well, I want to pay for the car behind me.\"  One time that first act of generousity was passed from person to person eight cars in a row.\r\nJust one act of love, justice and kindness at a time CAN change our world.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,35),(1181,4520,'Bud','thebud99@bellsouth.net','','65.13.98.197','2012-01-26 09:18:04','2012-01-26 17:18:04','Thank you Jan. I hope it spurs me (and others) to doing more to effectively end the use of the death penalty. I do not understand why after 2000 years people of faith haven\'t connected it\'s use to Jesus\' fortelling of the judgement of the nations in Mathew\'s gospel. \"I tell you the truth, when you do it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me.\" Mathew 25:40 NLT',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0; MALC)','',0,157),(1182,4431,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.5.243.34','2012-01-26 09:47:34','2012-01-26 17:47:34','Andrew, how would you respond to someone who would use the verses about Jesus separating the sheep and the goats?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1141,1),(1180,4520,'Jan Fischer','janfischer66@gmail.com','http://www.reverbnation.com/lebensartmusic','178.2.131.126','2012-01-26 09:02:34','2012-01-26 17:02:34','very powerful.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko)  Iron/13.0.800.0 Chrome/13.0.800.0 Safari/535.1','',0,0),(1161,4406,'Travis Klassen','travklassen@me.com','http://earthtourist.org','96.53.86.134','2012-01-25 09:13:31','2012-01-25 17:13:31','I used to be attracted to Mark - not to his message, but to his boldness. I think we could all use a little more assertiveness and a lot less passive aggressive conversation when it comes to major life events such as sex, marriage, love etc.\r\n\r\nThanks for the reminder to open up about what we\'ve traditionally left people to figure out on their own in the dark privacy of their bedrooms.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,149),(1162,4406,'Travis Mamone','travismamone83@gmail.com','http://www.travismamone.net','64.26.72.143','2012-01-25 09:40:34','2012-01-25 17:40:34','When I first saw your name under the words \"Mark Driscoll is right,\" I immediately thought, \"You?  You think he . . .?  But . . . what . . . how . . .?\"\r\n\r\nBut you\'re right, we do need this conversation.  We need a better way of talking about sexuality, marriage, and relationships.  Maybe not the way Driscoll does, of course.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.25) Gecko/20111212 Firefox/3.6.25','',0,46),(1163,4406,'ron cole','labmanster@gmail.com','http://thewearypilgrim.typepad.com','24.68.68.41','2012-01-25 14:33:26','2012-01-25 22:33:26','On the one hand I sort of get what you\'re saying only because the \" church \" has fought out of this trench for years. I\'ve been married to the same woman for 37 years...and have been a christian for almost as long. We can get all biblical about \" open the conversation about marriage, family, relationships, sex, and men \"...and we\'ll bounce back and forth between Paul who was never married, and the Old Testament. And we can likely come up with a formula, construct a rigid box, a map to the perfect marriage. But we won\'t spend to much time in the gospels listening to Jesus. Why?\n\nFor on thing, he didn\'t say too much about marriage, when he was confronted by the religious establishment about divorce.\n\nBut what he does talk about is \" relationship \" between each other, in the context of a community, and as a humanity. To me this is the churches most catastrophic failure. The place where it should be the safest place to talk about anything is the most dangerous, the most critical and the most judgmental. Instead, as the old quote goes, \" the church doesn\'t heal there wounded, it kills them.\"\n\nWe need to learn how to restore the profound redemptive imagination of what \" relationship \" is within in the context of Jesus in the gospels...until we do that will fail at ever aspect of what it means to be fully human.\n\nSex, marriage, men...why people in general are leaving the church are all diversions to distract us from the real issue...we don\'t know how to live with each other.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_8) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1164,4513,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2012-01-25 14:53:47','2012-01-25 22:53:47','Joy,  I completely and utterly understand.  It is hard to be honest especially when people really are not at all certain they want to know.  Hang on sister,  Melody',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,64),(1165,4513,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-01-25 15:05:51','2012-01-25 23:05:51','That\'s true for us all, isn\'t it.  I appreciate your comment.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',1164,35),(1166,4513,'Billy Higgins','memweh@hotmail.com','http://comment','167.29.0.4','2012-01-25 15:18:27','2012-01-25 23:18:27','Good article. All of us with clinical depression or major depressive disorder understand what you are talking about. I was that way for many years. 14 to be exact. I had people that tried to get me into positive thinking and I didn\'t listen or think it would help. I was just too depressed. I still have hope that some day it can click for some of us. A little bit of working on changing my thoughts went a long way. Of course there is many reasons for depression. Physical, chemical. But then there is the me factor. What does my own mind do to me. Does it make me better or worse. There is also the comparison factor as you said, and the one that used to kill me all the time&gt;&gt; That is, that I want to function at a high level and have dreams and aspirations. BUT. BUT. They always seem to have had to take a back burner, because you just never know when depression or tiredness or whatever will hit. Then we can\'t be as regular as other people and fall short.  I do pretty well now though, and don\'t get that depressed. But the dreams and aspirations. It would be nice if we could do things we want to do and be more successful. \r\n\r\nJust kind of rambling. But good article. (Billy H. - Memphis)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.75 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1167,4196,'Christine Sine','seasickdoctor@gmail.com','http://godspace.wordpress.com','67.168.134.141','2012-01-25 15:34:11','2012-01-25 23:34:11','Joy, I love the story you share here. Simple acts of kindness can bring hope in the strangest places. I feel sorry for people who see Jesus\' vision as unattainable idealism. They are probably the ones who would break the kindness cycle by not paying for someone else\'s coffee.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',1158,6),(1168,4513,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-01-25 15:37:59','2012-01-25 23:37:59','A combination of things helps considerably:  support from people who understand, meds, staying connected in social activities, prayer, work, and thinking positive thoughts.  But nothing makes it go away.  As you said, it\'s hard not to make comparisons and be jealous of people who don\'t have a disease like this.  When those feelings come up, I work on accepting it as the way things are, and not let it tie me down.\r\n\r\nThanks for your post, Billy.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',1166,35),(1169,4406,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2012-01-25 15:43:55','2012-01-25 23:43:55','When I first heard of him, I wasn\'t sure what to make of his Very Manly Christianity.  I think his methods are distasteful, but I do believe that you\'re right about passive-aggressive conversation.  I\'m more interested in Driscoll\'s subject matter than in his personality.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1161,43),(1170,4196,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-01-25 15:45:37','2012-01-25 23:45:37','Yes, but there is still hope for them that one day the miracle will happen for them.  I\'ve seem some amazing transformations, and most we never see.  I bet many people who didn\'t pay for the next guy in line emptied someone else\'s waste basket along with their own at work that day.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',1167,35),(1171,4406,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2012-01-25 15:45:58','2012-01-25 23:45:58','Ha!  Well, I did my job, then; I got people\'s attention.\r\n\r\nI\'m not entirely against being so...bold about it.  I just wish he would sound less like he\'s putting everyone else down for not being, well, him.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1162,43),(1172,4406,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2012-01-25 15:49:08','2012-01-25 23:49:08','Those are great points.  So maybe the place to open it up is with Jesus\' words on the Greatest Commandment: Love God, love others.  So how do we begin to talk about relationships under that banner?  I think it would be great if we could get the conversation going about that.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1163,43),(1173,4196,'Christine Sine','seasickdoctor@gmail.com','http://godspace.wordpress.com','67.168.134.141','2012-01-25 17:12:20','2012-01-26 01:12:20','Your right. I have been amazed too by what God can do. I have just been reading Things Hidden: Scripture as Spirituality by Richard Rohr and he talks about how God delights in transforming death into life and calling into being that which does not yet exist.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',0,6),(1174,4196,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-01-25 18:50:57','2012-01-26 02:50:57','We have tandem thoughts on this, Christine.  Here\'s a quote from an article I finish writing this afternoon:\r\n\r\n\"How important it is for us to act when our hearts are stirred with compassion, rather than just sit on the sidelines and think about it.  Each of us has a unique place in God\'s universe.  We are made in His/Her image to fulfill a special part for the redemption of us all.  God loved us into being, and when we pass that love along to someone else, we are literally the hands, feet and heart of Jesus and have the transformational power to change someone\'s life for the better.  Just like God did for us.  Just like someone in our lifetime did for us.\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',1173,35),(1175,4196,'Christine Sine','seasickdoctor@gmail.com','http://godspace.wordpress.com','67.168.134.141','2012-01-25 18:55:20','2012-01-26 02:55:20','Amen',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',0,6),(1176,4406,'K.W. Leslie','kw.leslie@gmail.com','http://morechrist.blogspot.com','71.198.65.89','2012-01-25 19:30:43','2012-01-26 03:30:43','True, Driscoll is right to bring up the subject. It\'ll definitely get folks talking.\r\n\r\nMy worry is that most of the talk will be about how Driscoll\'s conclusions are wrong, sexist, and authoritarian to a degree that isn\'t Christlike; that there will be a brief corrective on how Christian sexuality <i>should</i> work... and then the topic will be dropped like a hot potato. What will be left is Driscoll\'s book, and a bunch of counter-Driscoll books, and anyone seeking some information will wind up reading Driscoll\'s book simply for a lack of anything independently substantive.\r\n\r\nHere\'s hoping I\'m wrong.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,150),(1177,4406,'Wayne Rumsby','wayne@rumsby.ca','http://markysroom.blogspot.com','99.231.82.159','2012-01-25 20:34:24','2012-01-26 04:34:24','Does anybody think he looks like Joe Rogan? Is there a connection between the MMA community and the Neo-Reformers? Maybe it\'s a quantum thing, he\'s the same guy in parallel universes. Just thinkin.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,137),(1178,4406,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2012-01-26 07:14:55','2012-01-26 15:14:55','That seems to be what\'s happening already.  It\'s why I chose not to simply write about what I think is wrong with his brand of Christian marriage.  I hope that instead of playing point-counterpoint with his book, people will start getting to the heart of the matter.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1176,43),(1179,4406,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2012-01-26 07:15:52','2012-01-26 15:15:52','I don\'t know if there\'s a specific connection, but I think his theology is in line with the Neo-Reformed movement.  To be honest, I don\'t spend more time thinking about him than I have to.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1177,43),(1183,4431,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.5.243.34','2012-01-26 09:48:19','2012-01-26 17:48:19','KW, what do you say to someone who has never heard about the grace of God?  Will they be prepared for it in the Kingdom?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1143,1),(1184,4272,'Bronwen','bronwen.henry@newchurch.org','','66.16.105.41','2012-01-26 11:28:18','2012-01-26 19:28:18','(like)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(1185,4431,'K.W. Leslie','kw.leslie@gmail.com','http://morechrist.blogspot.com','71.198.65.89','2012-01-26 19:52:07','2012-01-27 03:52:07','I believe people are saved through Christ Jesus... whether they know they are or not. Moses, for example, was saved through Christ, despite not knowing a thing about Christ\'s sacrificial death, how atonement works, about the Trinity, about the creeds.... Regardless, he had a relationship with God, and responded to the grace and revelation given him.\r\n\r\nAnd if someone in the present day likewise responds to whatever grace and revelation given them by God, I expect they likewise will be saved through Christ. The Kingdom might surprise them -- as it likely will surprise most Christians whose best guesses about what it will be like will fall far short of the reality -- but a part of them will react, \"Well, of course; my entire existence has been leading up to this, and it fits perfectly.\" If they\'re where God wants them, he\'ll have them ready enough for it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1183,150),(1186,3951,'Laura','ljoneill@gmail.com','http://www.agapesantos.wordpress.com','208.53.245.156','2012-01-26 19:56:04','2012-01-27 03:56:04','I skimmed over your review and viewed your interview with Jim over at www.resignationofeve.com (will read more carefully when I\"m more alert.) Thank you for reviewing the book and for some very thoughtful comments about who will and won\'t read it. If nothing else, I hope that the interviews lets women \"out there\" know they aren\'t alone as they relate to one or more of the stories. I am looking for a different expression of church these days... and finding her (the true church) in many unlikely places, where power isn\'t the game but grace, love and service really do define her. Sometimes, I even find this in the traditional model of church... even when those in \"power\" aren\'t listening.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1187,4074,'Sonny Lemmons','sonnylemmons@yahoo.com','http://www.lookthrough.net','71.68.236.55','2012-01-27 12:23:46','2012-01-27 20:23:46','Thanks, Mihee - and I loved your idea of \"playing with\" hope. Sometimes, we do kinda paw at it like a cat with a string, and we may not know what the heck to DO with it when we catch it (just like a cat).',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',1109,58),(1188,4074,'Sonny Lemmons','sonnylemmons@yahoo.com','http://www.lookthrough.net','71.68.236.55','2012-01-27 12:25:20','2012-01-27 20:25:20','Thank YOU for reading - and yeah, that\'s my favorite carol as well. I think i have somewhere around six different arrangements of it. :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',1099,58),(1189,4520,'Steve Brannon','brandnewday1@eplus.net','','207.223.31.119','2012-01-27 21:25:07','2012-01-28 05:25:07','Bud, this is a powerful article.  And, oh yes, in my estimation you are a writer.  Thank you for telling your story with your heart felt desire that the system change.    Blessings . . .',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; HPNTDF; .NET4.0C)','',0,0),(1190,4513,'Steve Brannon','brandnewday1@eplus.net','','207.223.31.119','2012-01-27 21:46:29','2012-01-28 05:46:29','Joy,  thank you for your courage to be soooo real!  I understand where you are coming from. Keep up the good work.\r\n\r\nlove and prayers . . .',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; HPNTDF; .NET4.0C)','',0,0),(1191,4206,'Melanie Thompson','lethmpsn@comcast.net','','24.16.214.71','2012-01-27 22:06:18','2012-01-28 06:06:18','Is there an agency that you would recommend for a Christian couple looking to adopt.  We are just starting the process!',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/4.0; GTB7.2; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; .NET4.0C; Tablet PC 2.0; BRI/2; .NAP 1.1)','',0,0),(1192,4520,'Bud','thebud99@bellsouth.net','','65.13.98.197','2012-01-27 23:02:32','2012-01-28 07:02:32','Thanks Steve.\n\nI appreciate your taking the time to read and comment.\nI have a great deal of respect for you. \nI didn\'t set out to write, but have found it is a way to wander through my though processes as I question everything about my faith, beliefs, and how I relate myself to God and others.Like I told Joy, it helps me wrap my brain aroud concepts and questions too big for my human mind.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0; MALC)','',0,157),(1193,4513,'Kirk Nolen','TheWhitedove2000@yahoo.com','','70.146.171.59','2012-01-28 00:27:59','2012-01-28 08:27:59','Hey Joy,  this is a very good and courageous article.  For over forty years, I\'ve been on-again / off-again with prescribed anti-depressants, various doctor\'s therapies, assorted religeon therepies, and the self-medicating route (beer, wine, whisky, and my old favorite: \"Here try this!\").  I vividly remember the 1st psyciatrist\'s diagnosis &amp; prognosis:  \"He\'s just got a little mild depression and will be over it within a couple of weeks.  No big deal.\"\r\n  I\'ve got no big complaints. Just wanted to lay a little foundation for my comment:  Overall, education of the general public is lacking.  They know the difference between having a little \"heartburn\" and having a major \"heartattack\", so most people respond accordingly.  They just don\'t know that the difference between being \"depressed\" and having \"Clinical Depression\" is just as expansive and serious, so most people respond as if, \"depression is depression\" and either seem to condescendingly pat you on the back and say \"awe...\" or want to give you a pep talk to snap you out of it.\r\n  Anyway, (trying to make the comment shorter) improving our educational system concerning this topic would make a more understanding world and better relations for our children and their children.  Peace, love, &amp; meditate.  ~Kirkn',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(1194,4076,'Wayne Rumsby','wayne@rumsby.ca','http://markysroom.blogspot.com','216.234.60.202','2012-01-28 06:09:35','2012-01-28 14:09:35','Ray I don\'t know your story, other than what you\'ve shared here, but it\'s clear to me that it\'s changing you, in a restorative way. \r\n\r\nI\'m not so sure I agree with the bad leadership (sometimes maybe), I think it\'s more often bad followership. Too often we go to church and judge the experience relative to our expectations.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,137),(1195,4513,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-01-28 06:11:27','2012-01-28 14:11:27','Thanks for your support, Steve.  It did take courage to place this article where anyone in the world can read it.  I know you work with depressed people  You keep up the good work, too.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',1190,35),(1196,4513,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-01-28 06:32:55','2012-01-28 14:32:55','Kirk, it scares the hell out of me to admit this in public -- something I never would have done a few years ago.  But God has given me the courage (at least in print) to tell the truth about my disease in hopes of educating the general public about emotional and mood disorders that are just as debilitating as cancer and diabetes.  In fact, many people are afraid of people like us because \"we\'re crazy, and who knows what we\'ll do.\"  Lovely, huh.  An automatic stigma.\r\nI\'m tired of it, and you are, too.  And I simply can\'t admit it face-to-face in social situations, because I\'m terrified of rejection.  But I\'ve become willing to take a stand in this kind of format, because we tend to isolate, thinking we are all alone, and if only a few people who have misunderstood clinical depression gain compassion for us, it\'s worth it to me to risk criticism to gain some respect for people like you and me.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,35),(1197,4206,'Travis Klassen','travklassen@me.com','http://earthtourist.org','70.69.165.105','2012-01-28 09:05:58','2012-01-28 17:05:58','Hi Melanie, congrats on the start of a beautiful journey. It will not be easy, but it will be worth it. We live in Canada, so we went through the Ministry of Children and Families, adopting a child from the foster care system. I am not sure about private agencies, though I know they are out there and I\'m sure they are good.  Be blessed!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',1191,149),(1388,5225,'Ryan Peter','ryanpeterwrites@gmail.com','http://www.ryanpeterwrites.com','196.25.255.210','2012-02-29 22:40:32','2012-03-01 06:40:32','Yeah, that\'s quite true!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',1383,165),(1389,5225,'Ryan Peter','ryanpeterwrites@gmail.com','http://www.ryanpeterwrites.com','196.25.255.210','2012-02-29 22:41:38','2012-03-01 06:41:38','Great history!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',1386,165),(1390,5225,'Ryan Peter','ryanpeterwrites@gmail.com','http://www.ryanpeterwrites.com','198.54.202.210','2012-02-29 22:42:25','2012-03-01 06:42:25','Thanks man :)\r\n\r\n\"On the other hand, there IS such a thing as being so open minded that your brains leak out through your ears.\" - hahaha, awesome quote! Definitely going to remember that one in the future!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',1387,165),(1199,4546,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.5.249.17','2012-01-28 10:04:46','2012-01-28 10:04:46','Bud, this is awesome.  Goes out on the 31st.',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','editorial-comment',0,0),(1200,4513,'Laura Droege','laura_droege@bellsouth.net','http://lauradroege.wordpress.com','98.67.163.110','2012-01-28 11:03:43','2012-01-28 19:03:43','Understand the feeling. I\'m bipolar (type 2, with more depression than mania), and it\'s really difficult to have someone greet me with that question. And I also identify with the comparison-trap as well. Excellent post, Joy.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(1201,4076,'Laura Droege','laura_droege@bellsouth.net','http://lauradroege.wordpress.com','98.67.163.110','2012-01-28 11:09:10','2012-01-28 19:09:10','So do you think our expectations for good fellowship are too high? Just wondering.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',1194,0),(1202,4076,'Laura Droege','laura_droege@bellsouth.net','http://lauradroege.wordpress.com','98.67.163.110','2012-01-28 11:10:01','2012-01-28 19:10:01','Great post, Ray. I appreciate your vulnerability in talking about your past.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(1203,4076,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.5.249.17','2012-01-28 11:11:29','2012-01-28 19:11:29','Laura, I think that is a great question.  Is our problem that our expectations for what fellowship is, too high, or should we hold those high expectations?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1201,1),(1204,4513,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-01-28 11:25:07','2012-01-28 19:25:07','Thank you, Laura.  I\'m in a support group for people with mood disorders like ours, and have become friends with a number of people diagnosed with bi-polar.  I hope you have access to such a support group.  It has really helped me.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',1200,35),(1205,3704,'justin','justinglobal@gmail.com','','97.115.67.214','2012-01-28 12:25:44','2012-01-28 20:25:44','Brooke,\r\n\r\nYou did the right thing. Don\'t question it.\r\n\r\nOf course its natural for all humans to look at the past, recognize mistakes and try to change them. This is different because it was a borderline cult (i\'m being fair i think).\r\n\r\nI spent 18 yrs in baptist education from K-3 thru my undergrad. I understand cult churches and cult-like organizations.\r\n\r\nOne of the problems we have, in my experience, is staying away from the \'cult\' aspects of religion but also avoiding taking a plunge to far in the other direction.\r\n\r\nBalance is key! Jesus deals with us on a day to day basis and doesn\'t expect perfection. This is Biblical.\r\n\r\nThe implications of having your whole social existence be revealed to be a borderline cult is jarring to say the least, however its well trodden territory. Religion has been used as a tool of control since the beginning, more or less. Its the status quo in the Church Age and will be our struggle in this reality. Of course the Holy Spirit helps us have joy throughout.\r\n\r\nIn other words, you\'re not alone. In fact, now you can empathize with non-Christians in a whole new way. A way that people who are still bound by cult-ish teaching cannot. You can see them from both sides. The point is, you can be a bettter Christian in spite of what they have done to you! Hooray!\r\n\r\nFreedom isn\'t a license to sin, obviously. But its a license to live an authentic life, rising and falling on your own choices, as God intended. We will sin, and go astray at times. This is horrific and we don\'t have to accept it...we can fight it! We just have to know that WE ARE NOT PERFECT and always try to be better! Results!\r\n\r\nGod does the rest...Jesus was perfect for us...He just wants to know us...the REAL us! So my friend, I congratulate you!\r\n\r\n_justin',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_8) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1206,4520,'Ken Hagerman(TheBarba)','kensebay1@yahoo.com','http://www.ramblingbarba.com','190.104.162.192','2012-01-29 07:49:25','2012-01-29 15:49:25','I have to tell ya the title grabbed me because I had written a piece a few months back about being a Christian serial killer. You have a different approach to a similar subject of killing Jesus. \r\n\r\nGood words. To follow Christ  is to allow Him to permeate your entire being, not compartmentalize Him to an area.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1207,3677,'Kevin Gonzaga','kglethean@gmail.com','http://speakfaithfully.wordpress.com','99.106.241.57','2012-01-29 12:04:40','2012-01-29 20:04:40','Casper,\r\n\r\nCould you explain your question a little bit more.  I think I know what you are saying but do not want to mis-respond to your comment.\r\n\r\nCertainly, this is not just a U.S. issue alone and it is certainly not even an issue that has arisen since the concept of nation-states.  This is a rather timeless question always faced by followers of Jesus living in this world under and in political, social and cultural structures of power.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',1129,124),(1208,3677,'Casper','casperdenck@gmail.com','http://www.nicodemist.com','62.255.199.1','2012-01-29 12:22:10','2012-01-29 20:22:10','Simply put talk of \'losing exemption\' point towards state action. However, my question is shouldn\'t the church refuse to classify itself as exempt and thereby limit its witness (it would only need to refuse to make a profit - which seems reasonable to me).',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,0),(1209,4513,'Chris Dowdy','cdowdy77@yahoo.com','','74.221.2.68','2012-01-29 12:48:18','2012-01-29 20:48:18','Joy, Thank you for this lovely article as I can relate in many ways.You see I am Bipolar type 1 and right now fighting the depression many times over.You see 5 weeks ago I had a baby boy and 2 weeks ago he came home.I was out of a job and 2 weeks ago got a job running Over The Road truck driver as I was used to being home every night.There was many times my girlfriend called me at 1 or 2 a.m. crying and depressed and me trying to be strong for her emotionally but it makes me depressed that I can\'t be there for them except for a phone call or a text msg.I also attend the support group with Joy and Billy.I have been going for 2 yrs now and I can tell it has helped me in many ways because I can relate more to people who have the same illness as me but also learned more about depresion and bipolar that has helped me be a better person.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0; yie9)','',0,0),(1210,4513,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-01-30 05:13:18','2012-01-30 13:13:18','Thanks for your comment, Chris.  I can imagine how rough it is for the two of you right now, wanting you to be home and needing you to work.  That would greatly increase both of y\'all\'s depression.  Know that I\'m praying for you.  Please let me know if I can help any other way.  I\'m also grateful for our support group.  It makes all the difference being able to share similar issues and feelings with people who suffer with the same things.  I, too, have gained greater understanding of diseases I don\'t have -- like Bipolar.\r\n\r\nI wish there were support groups for people who live with someone who has depression -- similar to an Al-Anon group.  I was talking with a woman yesterday about my article here, and she asked if there was such a group.  Her brother has clinical depression and she\'s clueless how to help him, and could use the support of other people like herself.  Do you know of such an organization?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',1209,35),(1211,4665,'Edwina R.','lerowell@comcast.net','','192.190.254.254','2012-01-30 08:14:13','2012-01-30 16:14:13','Ray, You have given me a moment of closeness with our Lord today.  Thank you for sharing your \"hound of heaven\" encounters.  I have been encouraged.   EMR',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/534.51.22 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.1 Safari/534.51.22','',0,0),(1212,4508,'Adrian W.','independent739@yahoo.com','http://www.lifebeforethebucket.com','98.172.113.35','2012-01-30 08:18:56','2012-01-30 16:18:56','I think what it will take, sadly, is the dying out of a couple of generations. I think we\'re (VERY) slowly moving in the right direction on this matter, but I think some things are so finely ingrained in the  minds of those who are older that it\'s difficult (and maybe even impossible) to change. \r\n\r\nOf course, I have my own habits and opinions that I suck at changing, so who am I to speak? =)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1213,4508,'K.W. Leslie','kw.leslie@gmail.com','http://morechrist.blogspot.com','71.198.65.89','2012-01-30 09:05:40','2012-01-30 17:05:40','Humans are selfish, and regularly twist things to suit our needs. The reason for the sexism in the church is that there are a lot of sexists in it who have no motivation to change things for the better, to be more Christlike, unless it benefits them.\r\n\r\nI\'d <i>like</i> to think Adrian\'s right -- that we\'re moving in the right direction, and that all we\'ll need is a generation of poor leadership to pass away -- but I dunno. Backsliding happens, and sometimes the older generation are the reformers, while the new generation are the reactionaries. The New Calvinists come to mind.\r\n\r\nSome years ago there was a local meeting in my own denomination, which has had women pastors since its founding last century. Some of the younger pastors in the meeting objected to women in leadership on the grounds that it\'s \"not biblical.\" This went on till one of the leaders, one of older gentlemen in the group, stopped the debate and pointed out that they were out of order: As a denomination, this was a decided issue. If they wanted to make it one, they were in the wrong place.\r\n\r\nNow, what are the chances these young men will repent and conform, as opposed to leaving and starting a new chauvinistic sect? Depends on how right they think they are -- which in the end depends on how much they think they\'ve overcome (or Jesus has overcome for them) their innate total depravity. Or whether they even believe they suffer from it in the first place. That\'s the <i>real</i> issue. Sexism is the symptom.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,150),(1214,4513,'Laura Droege','laura_droege@bellsouth.net','http://lauradroege.wordpress.com','98.67.173.204','2012-01-30 11:14:03','2012-01-30 19:14:03','I know that my local NAMI chapter has support groups and offers stuff for families of the mentally ill. I don\'t know if they have support groups just for family members, but they do offer classes to help teach the families how to cope with the financial/mental/emotional drain of dealing with their loved ones\' illness.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',1210,0),(1215,4513,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-01-30 11:20:30','2012-01-30 19:20:30','Thanks for the info, Laura.  I will pass that along to people.  If there aren\'t support groups for families, NAMI might help one be created by requests from people in the family support classes.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',1214,35),(1216,4665,'RayHollenbach','ray.hollenbach@gmail.com','http://StudentsofJesus.com','98.19.203.25','2012-01-30 11:20:55','2012-01-30 19:20:55','Thanks, Edwina: any time we draw closer to the Lord that\'s a good thing. I\'m honored.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1211,127),(1217,4508,'Pam Hogeweide','pamhogeweide@gmail.com','http://www.godmessedmeup.blogspot.com','70.173.1.108','2012-01-30 11:51:56','2012-01-30 19:51:56','Great questions and I address all of them head-on in my new book, Unladylike: Resisting the Injustice of Inequality in the Church. \r\n\r\nThe taproot for gender inequity is patriarchy and power. \r\n\r\nJesus did have women disciples. I devote an entire chapter examining how Jesus treated women (which does not match how the church treats women!). \r\n\r\nI sent you a copy, yes, Melody?? Message me if I overlooked doing so!!!\r\n\r\nWhat will it take to change?  In my opinion, it will take women like you and me resisting gender inequity and inspiring other women to do the same. For some women this will mean making difficult choices like leaving their faith tribe. For others, it may mean speaking up as you do with your questions and blogging, and me with my book and writing.  Each woman has to find her way in how she will resolve to respond (and resist) the injustice of gender inequity in the church. \r\n\r\nRead Unladylike. I cover all of this!!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1218,4076,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','170.185.168.19','2012-01-30 15:30:20','2012-01-30 23:30:20','Wayne, thank you for that. And as far as leadership or followership, I think it\'s a combination.  The followers will often respond to how the leadership reacts. If a church member falls and the leadership distances themselves, people follow. Then again, we are all responsible for how we treat our fallen brothers and sisters regardless of how leadership responds.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',1194,12),(1219,4076,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','170.185.168.19','2012-01-30 15:32:23','2012-01-30 23:32:23','Great question by both of you. I think the real question is, \"do we really have authentic fellowship?\" When we have authentic Christlike fellowship, I think it\'s a natural reaction to chase after those who fall. When we are just disjointed people in church, we tend to not care when people fall off the radar.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',1203,12),(1220,4076,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','170.185.168.19','2012-01-30 15:34:08','2012-01-30 23:34:08','Laura, thank you. It hasn\'t always been easy. When I did it in the beginning, I did it by blogging under a pseudonym. But I\'ve found that people are helped. But I\'ll tell you who I really admire. Joy Wilson. She\'s one of my heroes. Her story is transformative and amazing and she has amazing grit.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',1202,12),(1221,4397,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','170.185.168.19','2012-01-30 15:37:55','2012-01-30 23:37:55','Good point Camille about the need for rescue services. It\'s a job for the community of faith that for some reason we have not fully grasped. \r\n\r\nJan, great question. Many go overboard, falling into sin. We should seek two things. First, their restoration leading to repentance. But along the way, we have to have an open heart to listen to why they went overboard in the first place. Great observation.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',1123,12),(1222,4508,'Travis Klassen','travklassen@me.com','http://churchburned.com','96.53.86.134','2012-01-30 16:04:58','2012-01-31 00:04:58','Just read a great blog post by Frank Viola about Jesus &amp; women. http://frankviola.org/2012/01/30/godsviewofawoman/\r\n\r\nLooking forward to reading Unladylike, Pam.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,0),(1223,3908,'Eddy Damas','ed@inpulsearts.com','http://www.inpulsearts.com/Word','68.108.128.243','2012-01-30 18:34:08','2012-01-31 02:34:08','The greatest fear that man has is that of commitment. I for one, do not find anything wrong with couples living together before marriage, just as long as both understand that sex is totally off limits, but the marriage is definitely in the future such as Gene and Shannon have shown us.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; Trident/5.0; BOIE9;ENUS)','',0,0),(1224,4508,'Kristen','kristenrosser@hotmail.com','http://krwordgazer.blogspot.com','97.125.25.110','2012-01-30 22:43:57','2012-01-31 06:43:57','Male domination of the female is entrenched in human nature, according to Genesis 3:26.  Also, a view of the universe in terms of hierarchical authority became entrenched in the church in the Middle Ages.  Ths view actually came from mixing Plato and Aristotle\'s ideas into Christianity; but once a teaching becomes part of church tradition, it is very, very hard to change.  The church as a whole is by nature resistent to change, which is both its great strength and its great weakness.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1; Trident/4.0; FunWebProducts; GTB7.2; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; eMusic DLM/4; SpamBlockerUtility 4.8.4; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; BRI/2)','',0,0),(1225,4550,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2012-01-31 08:11:39','2012-01-31 16:11:39','Thanks for writing this.  I particularly needed the reminders. One, that realizing our dreams requires lots and lots of work, even hard work, sweat and perhaps no small amount of tears.  And two, get out there and live.  I live too much in my head, especially as a writer/thinker (duh) but I think sometimes this limits my creativity and passion.  Bravo to you and thanks.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',0,64),(1226,4520,'Bud','thebud99@bellsouth.net','','65.13.98.197','2012-01-31 11:30:57','2012-01-31 19:30:57','Thanks for your comments Ken. I use my writing to clarify my thoughts, and to get my pea brain around theoligical Ideas and concepts that are to much for me to grasp. The thoughtful comments of others helps in further understanding and refinement.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0; MALC)','',0,157),(1227,2436,'Kat Walker','katwalker@gmail.com','','71.226.182.80','2012-02-01 18:47:14','2012-02-02 02:47:14','I think the best thing the church can do is stop devaluing femininity, stop treating womanhood as inherently weak or lesser than manhood, and stop pushing such a narrow, stereotyped, superficial definition of femininity to begin with.  \r\n\r\nOf course most women will reject femininity if they are constantly sent the message that it is all about being pretty, quiet, helpless, passive, and boring.  I think a lot of women are naturally feminine, but they also posses qualities of strength, ambition, intelligence, and drive.  It\'s not so much that they aren\'t being \"womanly\", but that we don\'t allow our definition of womanhood to have any interesting, active, or dynamic characteristics.\r\n\r\nIn short: women will be more comfortable being women once Christians (and secular society, too) get over the idea that girly stuff is stupid and lame.\r\n\r\nWe also need to stop shaming women who naturally embody tougher characteristics.  So what if she\'s a tomboy and looks like one?  Biological sex isn\'t the main thing that determines one\'s personality (your reproductive organs are not the same thing as your gender qualities).  Also, women don\'t exist to be your ornaments or to make you feel comfortable by fitting in a non-threatening little box.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,0),(1228,4792,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2012-02-02 09:26:28','2012-02-02 17:26:28','You are a brilliant clear writer.  Your honesty is beautiful.  \r\n\r\nI still don\'t exactly know what being bipolar means - is it different for everyone, or are there symptoms like with depression that are classic and easily identified?  But I do know that the more people who are willing to talk about it the more we will all learn from their stories and example.  \r\n\r\nIt is hard to live with mental illness.  It\'s hard to not to seek after being considered \"successful\" in the terms of the world.  Much less to believe in our minds and souls, when we simply want to make a contribution that is worthwhile and precious to God.  And on those days, frantic and anxious as they are, the Holy One ministers to me by forcing me to be still.  Forces me to accept that I am nothing and I am everything to him .  (I wrote about that recently on my blog, in a poem that title.)  The point is that we\'re so precious to him, our stories are precious and we should value them!  \r\n\r\nGod values your story, your experience, your desire to help others, and he\'ll do a good work in it and through you.  We just can\'t imagine it yet!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',0,64),(1229,4792,'Laura Droege','laura_droege@bellsouth.net','http://lauradroege.wordpress.com','98.81.18.209','2012-02-02 12:02:06','2012-02-02 20:02:06','Hey, Melody--\r\n\r\nThanks so much for the encouraging words! In answer to your question, bipolar disorder is characterized by extremes in moods: depression on one end of the scale and mania (high, elevated, unnaturally energetic mood) on the other. Sometimes there is psychosis along with the mania. There are two types. I have type 2, which has \"hypomania\" rather than classic \"mania\"  (it\'s a step down from mania and doesn\'t last as long), and horrible depressions. Oddly enough, it\'s kind of hard to get diagnosed with bipolar disorder, even though the definitions sounds clear enough on paper. I kept getting diagnosed with depression because that was my main symptom. \r\n\r\nI love what you wrote about how God values us and our stories. Simply beautiful. Thank you for reading.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',1228,146),(1230,4792,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-02-03 05:37:25','2012-02-03 13:37:25','Laura, I am a fellow contributor to Not Alone, and suffer from clinical depression and PTSD.  It was very difficult to go public about that, but my book Uncensored Prayer brought it to the forefront.  Now I\'m a public advocate for mood disorders and mental illness, because we DO tend to suffer in silence.\r\n\r\nA big part of the reason I kept silent so long was because people were afraid of what I might do or say.  They labeled my disease as my identity.  I can\'t change anyone\'s belief about that, but I do refute it by what I write and sometimes verbally.\r\n\r\nI really appreciate your article and support you 100%.  God created us just as we are, and saw no fault in that.  To live that out in the best possible way is for us to accept and cherish who we are, utilizing our gifts and not focusing on what we can\'t do.  One of the worst things about depression is it can steal my greatest strengths from me because I get sucked into the comparison trap and/or can beat myself on the days when the best I can do is cope.  I\'ve dealt with that pain this week.  Then I ran across a quote from Charles Dickens:  \"The writer that is natural has fulfilled all the rules of art.\"  When I write and live authentically, it\'s a blessing even when it feels horrible, because trying to be someone I\'m not is worse.\r\n\r\nRead my article in this magazine posted last week: \"How Are You?\" \"Depressed.  How Are You?\"  I applaud Jonathan for printing articles like ours, because it allows fellow sufferers to know they are not alone, but hopefully we can also provide education for those who don\'t understand our diseases.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,35),(1231,4782,'Adam Gonnerman','gonnerman@burntmail.com','http://missionaljourneyman.com','208.92.44.113','2012-02-03 08:29:57','2012-02-03 16:29:57','Oh...that was GOOD! Thank you for sharing it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1232,4782,'Rick','Littrealy.speaking@gmail.com','http://www.warriors-life.com','75.201.60.28','2012-02-03 08:30:30','2012-02-03 16:30:30','Good post, Ken. Man, you guys have truly been through some trying times. There is no doubt about that. The thing that came to mind at the very end was how God uses a refining fire to purify us more and more. You allowed it to work and now He is able to make you stronger and more pure by trusting Him more. God bless you and your family brother. Thanks for all you do for the Lord!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/9A405','',0,0),(1233,4782,'Ken Hagerman(The Barba)','kensebay1@yahoo.com','http://ramblingbarba.com','190.104.162.209','2012-02-03 08:41:34','2012-02-03 16:41:34','A pleasure, Adam. Thanks for reading.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1234,4782,'Ken Hagerman(The Barba)','kensebay1@yahoo.com','http://ramblingbarba.com','190.104.162.209','2012-02-03 08:48:46','2012-02-03 16:48:46','I just wish I could do it without getting burned. Alas, it is necessary. Hopefully I won\'t need it so much from now on.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',1232,0),(1235,4782,'Eileen','eknowles@embarqmail.com','http://www.eileenknowles.com','184.7.176.104','2012-02-03 09:29:51','2012-02-03 17:29:51','Ken, great thoughts.  I know in my own journey the most  life changing/growing times with God have been when I\'veI chosen to talk to him/yell at him about things I didn\'t understand or like.  God says come to Him...even if we come kicking and screaming.  He somehow changes our heart in the process!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:10.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0','',0,0),(1236,4782,'Stephen Haggerty','stephenhaggerty@gmail.com','http://thebeardedidealist.com','74.60.29.216','2012-02-03 10:11:25','2012-02-03 18:11:25','I love the honesty in the moment you admitted your trust was busted.  It seems to me that God would much prefer that than someone plugging away for years pretending to trust God and missing out on all of the intimacy He wants us to benefit from.  Great piece of writing, Ken.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1237,4782,'Ken Hagerman','kensebay1@yahoo.com','http://www.ramblingbarba.com','190.104.162.203','2012-02-03 13:04:38','2012-02-03 21:04:38','That is exactly what I\'m finding. I am so glad He knows I\'m a whiny kid and can overlook that to bring where He wants me.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',1235,154),(1238,4782,'Ken Hagerman','kensebay1@yahoo.com','http://www.ramblingbarba.com','190.104.162.203','2012-02-03 13:06:40','2012-02-03 21:06:40','It\'s funny I thought I really did trust Him. But, I guess our walk ebbs and flows and we need to ever be ready to change.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',1236,154),(1239,4782,'Eddy Damas','ed@inpulsearts.com','http://www.inpulsearts.com/Word','68.108.128.243','2012-02-03 16:45:08','2012-02-04 00:45:08','It\'s strange how much the big things that are above our understandng can lead us back to trusting God.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(1240,4782,'Ken Hagerman(The Barba)','kensebay1@yahoo.com','http://ramblingbarba.com','190.104.162.205','2012-02-03 16:56:31','2012-02-04 00:56:31','He knows what we need to motivate us in the right direction. Thanks for reading.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',1239,0),(1241,3993,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2012-02-03 17:42:31','2012-02-04 01:42:31','Well, I cannot believe that you haven\'t received a single word on this.  It is profoundly true.  Thanks for writing about something that actually matters and is so dear to Jesus.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',0,64),(1242,3993,'kathyescobar','kathy@therefugeonline.org','http://www.kathyescobar.com','97.118.191.84','2012-02-03 18:37:21','2012-02-04 02:37:21','thanks melody, i kind of thought it was weird, too, but sometimes i think are better topics aren\'t ones that anyone says anything about and ones i think aren\'t that big of a deal get a buzz.   i am not sure provoketive really shared it was even out but still...crickets always stink.  glad that you connected with it &amp; i do think we don\'t talk about this reality enough.  peace, kathy',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1241,0),(1243,3562,'suzannah {so much shouting, so much laughter}','suzannah.paul@gmail.com','http://www.somuchshoutingsomuchlaughter.com/','72.77.114.144','2012-02-03 21:09:39','2012-02-04 05:09:39','I appreciate this post and your linking that Don\'t Rape ad campaign. It was created (I believe) in response to one from the PA Liquor Control Board blaming rape on women\'s drinking.  Criminals commit crimes.  There\'s no \"asking for it,\" and these are conversations we should be having.\n\nThe way the Church speaks of purity is often gnostic in the way we shame the body.  We put a heap of blame on women and fail to give men any credit for being capable of rising above bodily instincts.  Thank you for these words of responsibility and respect.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1244,3677,'Spirit Manslaw','A_Nonomyous@noneofyourbusiness.net','','76.101.215.51','2012-02-04 04:31:36','2012-02-04 12:31:36','It should be a simple matter; a church talks politics the church loses its tax exempt status.  A church wants to talk politics...pay your taxes and call your church what it really is...a religious political action committee.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,0),(1245,4782,'tandemingtroll','kris@overtooms.net','http://www.tandemingtroll.blogspot.com','174.26.150.171','2012-02-04 07:14:52','2012-02-04 15:14:52','Isn\'t it interesting how we can let the \"big\" issues roll over us and we think we are stepping out in faith and trust that \"God works all things out for the good of those who love him\", but let some little irritant follow and it seems to cause everything to crash, like the butterfly in Veggie Tales\' \"Madame Blueberry\" that causes a tree-house filled with stuff to crash. (As a father of older kids, please tell me that I will eventually stop using kids animated shows as analogies!).\r\n\r\nI went for quite a while praying \"I believe, Lord.  Help me in my unbelief.\"   I wrote about the initial conditions that started that prayer  in a blog:  http://www.tandemingtroll.blogspot.com/2010/08/like-being-involved-in-rear-end.html.  That period of time has ended now, but I am sure there will be some other barrier at some point in time that will require me to rest and re-build my faith.\r\n\r\nHang in there, Ken!  So many people are praying for you.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1246,4782,'Ken Hagerman','kensebay1@yahoo.com','http://www.ramblingbarba.com','190.104.162.70','2012-02-04 09:11:28','2012-02-04 17:11:28','It is these type of comments that are encouraging. You know, I think my letting the big issues roll over me was a false response. I was acting like I had given it to God but in reality it was piling up until that small thing \"tipped\" it over.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',1245,154),(1247,4520,'Edgar','eapaz14@gmail.com','','71.58.184.10','2012-02-04 09:25:14','2012-02-04 17:25:14','Beautifully written article.\r\n\r\nI find it amazing how so many people are still for capital punishment despite -- at least for me -- the apparent obviousness of the hypocrisy of looking at a murderer and saying \"You know what we can do to teach people not to murder? Murder him!\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1248,4520,'Bud','thebud99@bellsouth.net','','65.13.98.197','2012-02-04 12:16:46','2012-02-04 20:16:46','Thank you Edgar.\r\n\r\nI will never be OK with state killing in any form. For me it is always the worst moral choice. I claim to follow Jesus, and for me that means taking his teachings seriously. Those who have ears hear Jesus repeatedly teaching against violence in any form, and always seeking reconciliation and restoration over vengeance.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',1247,157),(1249,4782,'Kathy','guerrykathy@yahoo.com','','98.124.70.15','2012-02-04 13:31:25','2012-02-04 21:31:25','Very good post...sounds somewhat like \"coming to the end of one\'s self\" which is laying aside all self-effort, pretense and concern for reputation...and being open to His workings in our lives. Much better than wearing plastic smiles and pretending that we understand what He is doing. Do I trust Him enough to be obedient, even if I never know why He directed me to do a particular thing? Thought-provoking material.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(1250,3677,'Casper','casperdenck@gmail.com','http://www.nicodemist.com','62.255.199.1','2012-02-04 14:36:15','2012-02-04 22:36:15','@ Spirit Manslaw. I\'m really struggling to see how a church can, if it is faithful to the gospel, ever not be what has been termed political - I don\'t mean in a party political sense but political nonetheless. \r\n\r\nIt was precisely in its confession that Jesus is Lord that the early Christians called time on the State\'s pretensions of sovereignty. The political form may differ but the core conviction remains the same.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,0),(1251,4782,'Ken Hagerman(The Barba)','kensebay1@yahoo.com','http://ramblingbarba.com','190.104.162.214','2012-02-04 16:56:33','2012-02-05 00:56:33','Those are some of the questions. Trust enough to be obedient even when I don\'t know why is exactly it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',1249,0),(1252,4792,'Harold','harold.johnson@gmail.com','http://unstablemind.com','71.207.169.186','2012-02-05 00:10:23','2012-02-05 08:10:23','Laura, you are courageous for disclosing your mental illness. Possibly because I grew up in a dysfunctional family and encountered mental illness in family members from a very early age, I don\'t believe I\'ve ever been all that uncomfortable with being telling people I suffer from depression. But bipolar \"disorder\" gave me an awful fright when I began to seriously consider that I may be \"suffering\" from it. Whether or not I fall within the bipolar spectrum or not I still don\'t know, but I believe I\'ll be prepared if I ever receive the diagnosis.\r\n\r\nPart of the reason I believe I\'m more comfortable with it now is due to the candidness of writers and authors such as yourself. About ten years ago I began reading a blog written by a young woman who was quite candid about her mental illness. Sometimes I wondered if she ever worried how her writing might affect her writing career, but she wrote beautifully -- much similar to what you\'re doing -- and though I must admit haven\'t read her blog in a long time I check in once in awhile and it seems she\'s succeeded quite well. I have a hunch her honest blogging has even helped her in her career.\r\n\r\nIf you ever want to check that blog out it\'s at http://annecentral.blogspot.com.\r\n\r\nI\'ve long been honest in my own writing but it wasn\'t until relatively recently that I began to allow myself to speak more about my own mental illness. I\'ve even changed the name of my blog to Unstable Mind. I\'ve blogged under my own name but sometimes I fear the potential consequences of putting myself (and the problems I face with my  own mental illness) out there. Just yesterday, in fact, I removed my name from the blog and even changed the email address it\'s associated with. This may seem cowardly but I\'m trying to land a job I really want and don\'t want any Google searches to bring up something that might discourage an employer to hire me.\r\n\r\nThen again, if an employer is that ignorant about depression, perhaps it would be best for me not to work for them.\r\n\r\nThere are some good books -- some of them great -- that have provided me with some consolation on this matter. One of those books was Manic: A Memoir, a relatively recent book written by Terri Cheney, a very successful Hollywood attorney. \r\nAn older book, Darkness Visible A Memoir of Madness, was written by William Styron was a Pulitzer prizewinning author. A book that is considered a classic by many (though if recall correctly, I haven\'t finished reading yet) is  Kay Redfield Jamison\'s An Unquiet Mind; Jamison is a UCLA psychologist who has treated and written about bipolar disorder and inflicted with the disorder herself.\r\n\r\nI hesitate to use these words \"disorder\" and \"inflicted\" and \"suffering\" because, though most will certainly agree that bipolar certainly seems like a disorder when they\'re in the depths of despair and may find it insulting for anyone to say they are not suffering, there are, in some cases, some benefits to being uniquely affected by bipolar. No, I\'m serious. A recent book I read, authored by one of the earliest and most influential proponents of lithium, Dr. Ronald R. Fieve, filled me with such joy because it seemed to describe my experiences with depression. The book is called Bipolar Breakthrough: The Essential Guide to Going Beyond Moodswings to Harness Your Highs, Escape the Cycles of Recurrent Depression, and Thrive with Bipolar II.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; PPC Mac OS X 10_5_8) AppleWebKit/534.50.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.6 Safari/533.22.3','',0,0),(1253,4792,'Harold','harold.johnson@gmail.com','http://unstablemind.com','71.207.169.186','2012-02-05 00:12:59','2012-02-05 08:12:59','Forgive all my grammatical errors in my previous comment.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; PPC Mac OS X 10_5_8) AppleWebKit/534.50.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.6 Safari/533.22.3','',0,0),(1254,4792,'Laura Droege','laura_droege@bellsouth.net','http://lauradroege.wordpress.com','98.81.15.69','2012-02-05 10:49:17','2012-02-05 18:49:17','Thanks so much for commenting, Harold. I really appreciate all the support I\'ve gotten from posting this blog post! I\'ve read Jamison\'s book (or at least parts of it) and her book about bipolar disorder and the link with creativity. Facinating. I\'ll have to look up Cheney\'s, Fieve\'s and Styron\'s books. I love to read. (Imagine that: an author that likes to read!)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',1252,146),(1255,4792,'Laura Droege','laura_droege@bellsouth.net','http://lauradroege.wordpress.com','98.81.15.69','2012-02-05 10:50:21','2012-02-05 18:50:21','Forgiven! (I don\'t always notice grammatical errors, even though I guess I really should, and I didn\'t notice any in your comment.)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',1253,146),(1256,4792,'Laura Droege','laura_droege@bellsouth.net','http://lauradroege.wordpress.com','98.81.15.69','2012-02-05 10:55:17','2012-02-05 18:55:17','Joy, thanks for your support. I appreciate it. I read recently that the majority of mentally ill people tend to go it alone--a national study proved it--and not only don\'t get social support but don\'t even get medical support. Very sad. Hopefully, by sharing our stories, we can help others know they\'re not alone!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',1230,146),(1257,4792,'Harold','harold.johnson@gmail.com','http://unstablemind.com','71.207.169.186','2012-02-05 11:48:36','2012-02-05 19:48:36','Dr. Fieve is the only author I\'ve cited who doesn\'t struggle with mental illness him himself but he seems to have spent a good deal of his life studying bipolar disorders. \r\n\r\nHere\'s a mention of the book I just found on bipolar-lives.com which provides a taste of what Fieve\'s book contains (the quote is at http://bit.ly/18ko1L):\r\n\r\n\"Dr Fieve introduces a new label - Bipolar IIB - the \'B\' is for \'beneficial\'. This is his term for the form of manic depression in which the bipolar person uses their highs to benefit themselves, their family and society.\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; PPC Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0) Gecko/20120129 Firefox/10.0 TenFourFox/G5','',1254,0),(1258,4814,'Jane Willis Gardner','janegardner33@gmail.com','','68.100.150.178','2012-02-06 16:08:43','2012-02-07 00:08:43','Wonderfully honest article/prayer poem and therefore wonderfully encouraging.  I was just wondering a day or two ago if God gets tired of my same old, same old when it comes to confession and asking forgivenes.  While God\'s grace is not something I want to take for granted and step on-- by repeating a \"pet sin\" yet again seemingly without caring, and then blithely asking for forgiveness--I needed to hear what your prayer poem from God says.  I do care: 1. I recognize it still as sin; and   2.  I do \"bother\" to ask for forgiveness .  God wants to be my best friend and as long as I\'m still engaging not only about the beautiful stuff in life, but about the ugly junk, too, like sins, He\'s gonna keep listening, keep teaching me what to do, and drawing me closer.  And that\'s the Love I need.  The kind that never fails.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(1259,4814,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-02-06 17:49:03','2012-02-07 01:49:03','You\'re right, Jane.  We and God want the same thing for and from each other: love and a deeply intimate relationship.  That is only possible for us if we are willing to wrestle with God through uncensored prayer, just as we are.  I\'m so grateful our God makes that possible, extending unending grace, forgiveness and love.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,35),(1260,4792,'wayne rumsby','wayne@rumsby.ca','','99.231.82.159','2012-02-06 21:28:08','2012-02-07 05:28:08','Thanks.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,0),(1261,4809,'Jake','wjkampe@comcast.net','','98.196.167.195','2012-02-07 10:56:21','2012-02-07 18:56:21','Great words, Joy.  Thanks for sharing.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,0),(1262,4809,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-02-07 11:20:03','2012-02-07 19:20:03','You are one for this one, Jake.  Thank you.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',1261,35),(1263,4809,'Jane Willis Gardner','janegardner33@gmail.com','','66.87.82.187','2012-02-07 12:38:58','2012-02-07 20:38:58','I am so thankful that Mike found your church and you.  What if he hadn\'t?  May each of us fine-tune our sight to see the \"Mikes\" all around us.  And God, on the days when I\' m hurting and wounded and numb from the pain of life, give a Christian brother or sister eyes to me as \"Mike.\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; en-us; MB855 Build/4.5.1A-1_SUN-198_6) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1','',0,0),(1264,4792,'Laura Droege','laura_droege@bellsouth.net','http://lauradroege.wordpress.com','98.67.106.49','2012-02-07 13:50:01','2012-02-07 21:50:01','You\'re welcome, Wayne. Thank you for reading!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',1260,0),(1265,4809,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-02-08 04:22:01','2012-02-08 12:22:01','Amen to that, Jane.  In my book, Uncensored Prayer, I revealed a lot of personal things about myself that left me open to attack.  Increasingly, my writing addresses discrimination based both on prejudice and ignorance.  I have been on the receiving end of discrimination because of my addictions, clinical depression, views of God, sexual history, and age as a woman over fifty.  So I have real empathy for all \"Mike\'s\".  But I can be just as blind and/or intolerant to someone not like me, especially if they attack me.  \"Love your enemy\" isn\'t one of my strongpoints.  But God is working in me about that.  My heart\'s desire is to treat people the way I want to be treated.  To put that into practice takes more than heart.  I need God\'s help and those of others to live like that.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',1263,35),(1266,4814,'Travis Mamone','travismamone83@gmail.com','http://www.travismamone.net','64.26.72.143','2012-02-08 06:36:34','2012-02-08 14:36:34','Guess I\'m more faithful to God than I thought!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.26) Gecko/20120128 Firefox/3.6.26','',0,46),(1267,4842,'Travis Mamone','travismamone83@gmail.com','http://www.travismamone.net','64.26.72.143','2012-02-08 06:51:29','2012-02-08 14:51:29','Love me some Leonard Cohen!  His voice sounds like Tom Waits now, but still a heck of a songwriter.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.26) Gecko/20120128 Firefox/3.6.26','',0,46),(1268,4862,'Jake','wjkampe@comcast.net','','64.134.146.83','2012-02-08 09:10:07','2012-02-08 17:10:07','Great blog, Travis.  I blogged on this as well for Rachel Held Evans blog.  Enjoyed digging into this and how the gender issue really is equal.  Nice work!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,0),(1269,2221,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','209.49.70.10','2012-02-08 09:27:30','2012-02-08 09:27:30','Are you still considering this post?',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','editorial-comment',0,0),(1270,1375,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','209.49.70.10','2012-02-08 09:27:56','2012-02-08 09:27:56','Are you still considering this post?',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','editorial-comment',0,0),(1271,2390,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','209.49.70.10','2012-02-08 09:28:17','2012-02-08 09:28:17','Are you still considering this post?',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','editorial-comment',0,0),(1272,3043,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','209.49.70.10','2012-02-08 09:28:56','2012-02-08 09:28:56','Are you still considering this post?',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','editorial-comment',0,0),(1465,5881,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','166.147.114.195','2012-04-11 17:49:57','2012-04-12 00:49:57','Joy, glad to have a kindred spirit. The liturgical services based on scripture are profound. I just struggle imagining the early church being comfortable with these reenactments. A show without proclamation is useless. \r\n\r\nI hope churches turn their energy to showing the active love of Christ to the world. That\'s what we are called to do. \r\n\r\nI am reading your book, by the way. Just slow going. I love it so far!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9B176 Safari/7534.48.3','',1464,12),(1274,3862,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','209.49.70.10','2012-02-08 09:29:56','2012-02-08 09:29:56','I\'d love to see you finish this post Hugh.',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','editorial-comment',0,0),(1275,3924,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','209.49.70.10','2012-02-08 09:30:29','2012-02-08 09:30:29','Was this something I missed as part of the Synchroblog, or is it a duplicate?',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','editorial-comment',0,0),(1276,4766,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','209.49.70.10','2012-02-08 09:30:53','2012-02-08 09:30:53','Are you still considering this post?',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','editorial-comment',0,0),(1277,4862,'Susan Coppage Evans','sevans@mindspring.com','','72.42.100.2','2012-02-08 09:33:23','2012-02-08 17:33:23','Try using the word \"it\" to reference G-d.  When someone calls you to the door or the phone and you don\'t know the gender, you say, \"\"Who is it?\"  But our anthropomorphic focus repels the idea of \"it\" as if \"it\" is less than human and human is supreme. If all of creation is a reflection of G-d, than “it” is a good word to use and avoids gender/human bias towards something that is more than human and gender.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; .NET4.0C; MS-RTC EA 2; .NET4.0E)','',0,0),(1278,4862,'Travis Mamone','travismamone83@gmail.com','http://www.travismamone.net','64.26.72.143','2012-02-08 09:42:50','2012-02-08 17:42:50','Susan,\r\n\r\nI just edited the article.  Instead of using a pronoun, I just used the word \"God.\"  Thank you for your feedback.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.26) Gecko/20120128 Firefox/3.6.26','',1277,46),(1279,4862,'Travis Mamone','travismamone83@gmail.com','http://www.travismamone.net','64.26.72.143','2012-02-08 09:43:17','2012-02-08 17:43:17','Thanks Jake!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.26) Gecko/20120128 Firefox/3.6.26','',1268,46),(1280,4862,'Susan Coppage Evans','sevans@mindspring.com','','72.42.100.2','2012-02-08 10:18:03','2012-02-08 18:18:03','I tend to do that too AND some people still resist and say the word \"God\" is masculine. Language can be powerful!',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; .NET4.0C; MS-RTC EA 2; .NET4.0E)','',1278,0),(1281,4823,'Eddy Damas','ed@inpulsearts.com','http://www.inpulsearts.com/Word','68.108.128.243','2012-02-08 11:34:16','2012-02-08 19:34:16','Unfortunately, or actually fortunately, a real prophet won\'t be found online these days.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(1282,4814,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-02-08 12:52:07','2012-02-08 20:52:07','It\'s in the same catagory as God\'s grace towards us about everything.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',1266,35),(1283,4823,'Undercover Nun','undercovernun@gmail.com','http://undercovernun.net','98.174.223.7','2012-02-10 04:44:52','2012-02-10 12:44:52','Ah, a common error appears here.  When talking about the bible, a prophet is one who speaks with the voice of God.  Predictions come from an *oracle*.  A prophet can be an oracle, but an oracle isn\'t necessarily a prophet.  While there seem to be predictions in the prophetic literature, a close read will show that these are almost all in the form of if-then statements.\r\n\r\nPeace be with you!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:10.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0','',0,0),(1284,4823,'HometownProphet','jeff@hometownprophetbook.com','http://www.hometownprophetbook.com/','69.138.63.63','2012-02-10 06:08:38','2012-02-10 14:08:38','Thanks...good distinction.  That would explain the Oracles of Delphi and, of course, the Oracle in the Matrix.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:10.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0','',1283,160),(1285,5010,'Rich Goulette','richard.goulette@gmail.com','','69.28.149.29','2012-02-10 10:25:25','2012-02-10 18:25:25','Hi Jonathan, \r\n\r\nI think it\'s pretty common that we think of worship/glorifying God in grandiose ways:  Big music, martyrdom, things that make the big ticket.  Your allusion to Peter is interesting, because he thought the worshiping at the transfiguration was by building tabernacles for Moses, Elijah, and Jesus.  But really Jesus\' ultimate ways for Worship are in serving others as he served us.  The more I see the way he interacted with the marginalized, broken(although he did allow a little crooning from Mary while Martha was busy and he did allow the pouring of the expensive Nard later on)is that our greatest Worship of him comes especially when no one else even notices.  And that\'s the hardest thing to do in my opinion',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1325,4639,'Travis Klassen','travklassen@me.com','http://earthtourist.org','96.53.86.134','2012-02-17 12:46:37','2012-02-17 20:46:37','HI Marshall, thanks for your comment. For every set of eyes there is a different point of view. I am speaking to the hurting ones, to the ones who\'ve rejected God because of something his people have done. We\'re all part of the church, so we\'re all part of the problem, and the solution. http://www.churchburned.com/2012/02/10/bathing-in-forgiveness/',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; .NET4.0C; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; InfoPath.1)','',1324,149),(1287,4862,'Laura','lauraknowlescavanaugh@gmail.com','http://bodytheologyblog.wordpress.com','68.6.89.186','2012-02-10 20:51:17','2012-02-11 04:51:17','Hi Travis, thank you for sharing your thoughts. This has certainly been a hot topic in the last week, and I\'m encouraged by your perspective.  Regarding the use of pronouns, I shared a little of my journey on my blog recently.  Here\'s the link to the first part, if you\'re interested: http://bodytheologyblog.wordpress.com/2012/01/16/gender-inclusive-language-gender-inclusive-god-part-1/. I\'m planning to feature your article on my blog tomorrow. Check it out!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:10.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0','',0,0),(1288,5010,'Vince','alvinrapien@gmail.com','','99.189.52.19','2012-02-10 20:58:36','2012-02-11 04:58:36','Greetings Jonathan, \r\n\r\nIn light of God\'s mercy, the proper response, according to the Apostle Paul, is to be a \"Living Sacrifice\" - \"this is your true and proper worship\" (Romans 12:1, NIV 2011).  If we connect this with what Jesus says are the two greatest commandments, it is \"To Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind and strength...  The second is like it, to love your neighbor as yourself.\"  (Matthew 22:37 - 40).\r\n\r\nTo be a Living Sacrifice is to follow the two greatest commandments - to Love.  God is not demanding praise - but rather He wants relationship with His people and His people to be in loving relationship with everyone else.\r\n\r\nPS:  I know this isn\'t the most exegetical argument, but I don\'t think the connections are off the wall.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:10.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0','',0,0),(1290,5046,'gadfly1974','gadfly1974@yahoo.com','http://nineyearbible.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2012-02-12 14:14:53','2012-02-12 22:14:53','bravo!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:10.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.1','',0,0),(1291,5010,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','209.49.70.10','2012-02-13 13:55:03','2012-02-13 21:55:03','I think you are on to something Rich.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1285,1),(1292,5010,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','209.49.70.10','2012-02-13 13:55:49','2012-02-13 21:55:49','Vince,\n\nThis question is not mine, but I think you\'ve provide a good answer.  Worship is actually following.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1288,1),(1294,5034,'Tamara Lunardo','tamaraoutloud@gmail.com','http://tamaraoutloud.com/','98.180.27.224','2012-02-14 08:16:50','2012-02-14 16:16:50','I have not seen the video; it breaks my heart just to read about it here. I think you\'re dead-on, my friend. We have to do better than teaching shame.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(1295,5034,'Travis Klassen','travklassen@me.com','http://churchburned.com','96.53.86.134','2012-02-14 08:43:25','2012-02-14 16:43:25','Hi Alise, great piece. My wife Brandee &amp; I believe in respecting our kids and being \"un exemple\" (they\'re in french immersion). We both grew up in homes where we revered our parents and showed respect in all situations, regardless of our personal opinions and feelings. We chose teach the concept of honor in a way closer to that of Jesus, honoring them first, instilling the principles and watching them return to us as they get the idea for themselves.\r\n\r\nAs far as the public shaming thing - I\'ve been hoping it\'s just a stunt - because that\'s just wrong, and a perfect way to push your child to never want to trust you again.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; .NET4.0C; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; InfoPath.1)','',0,0),(1296,5034,'Bob Slatt','rslatt74@gmail.com','','192.232.30.37','2012-02-14 08:51:29','2012-02-14 16:51:29','My dog keeps pooping in the house. I told him that if he did it again there would be dire consequences.\r\n\r\nI plan on posting the video I made of me shooting Charley\'s doggy dish. Maybe then his butt sniffing, nad-licking buddies will show some respect!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,0),(1297,5034,'Brenna','Faithruluv@yahoo.com','','174.253.26.165','2012-02-14 09:13:15','2012-02-14 17:13:15','As a parent I feel it\'s my honor to model God\'s grave and love. I can\'t comprehend how parents who claim they feel the same way seem to celebrate this video. You can discipline and give consequences without degrading your child. Shooting this video may have made the father feel better, but did it actually make her respect him, which seemed to be the issue in the first place?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.3; en-us; DROIDX Build/4.5.1_57_DX5-35) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1','',0,0),(1298,5034,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2012-02-14 10:52:51','2012-02-14 18:52:51','It sucks, because I think the important lessons that he likely needs to teach got lost in (now) 22 million youtube views. I\'m all about parenting as part of a village, but this might be too much.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.46 Safari/535.11','',1294,30),(1299,5034,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2012-02-14 11:28:34','2012-02-14 19:28:34','I hope that it\'s a stunt as well, though from the follow-up and everything, it seems to be legit. Regardless, I\'m surprised how many people think it\'s okay to take to the internet to do our parenting. I think that was my biggest issue with it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.46 Safari/535.11','',1295,30),(1300,5034,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2012-02-14 11:31:28','2012-02-14 19:31:28','I\'d be on the lookout for other \"gifts\" if I were you. ;-D',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.46 Safari/535.11','',1296,30),(1301,5034,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2012-02-14 11:35:30','2012-02-14 19:35:30','That was where I was sitting. My issue isn\'t so much with the content (I don\'t like to critique how other parents parent), but the means. I really have an issue with posting something like that out there for the whole world. I think that\'s just not our right AT ALL.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.46 Safari/535.11','',1297,30),(1302,5034,'Ken Hagerman(The Barba)','kensebay1@yahoo.com','http://ramblingbarba.com','190.104.162.204','2012-02-14 12:02:56','2012-02-14 20:02:56','If, in the beginning, I am my daughters image of God then what kind of god does she serve? And why? For fear, for insurance against humiliation, for lack of a better god?\r\n\r\nThe humility that comes from proper parenting is a state of mind that leads to service of others. This kind of humility is the kind that grows a bitter root and acidic attitude.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.46 Safari/535.11','',0,0),(1303,800,'Mi8ke','dubsage13@yahoo.com','','128.62.30.239','2012-02-14 12:44:27','2012-02-14 20:44:27','It\'s pretty much spy vs spy... with a love interest.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.11 Safari/535.19','',0,0),(1304,5034,'MiCoBa','ayim80@gmail.com','','74.96.1.207','2012-02-14 13:57:01','2012-02-14 21:57:01','Is this really in the arena of cyber-bullying? This father shows how something can go viral whether you intended for it to or not. Puts his side of the story out there and this is way more effective then her posting a letter-to-the-editor style response from her dad on her fb page. He kept it open and honest; and without inviting harassment into his daughter\'s life. He exposed himself and let others know his child has disappointed him and that could be a relief to others who feel like a parental failure.  I just don\'t see how this is in the same arena as cyber bullying. Over the top? Probably. Will work for all teens in all situations? Of course not. Cyber bullying? Really? Humiliating? I always liked it that growing up some people thought my dad was crazy.  If I didn\'t want to do something without looking \"uncool\" I could blame it on him. This could help the young lady. If she really needs to be home by eleven and her friends want her to stay out later she can just say \"you saw the youtube video didn\'t you!?\"  No questions asked, she will get a ride home on time.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.46 Safari/535.11','',0,0),(1305,5034,'Kerry Miller-Whalen','kerrywhalen0@gmail.com','http://kerrysheadybrew.blogspot.com','121.216.248.201','2012-02-14 14:26:02','2012-02-14 22:26:02','I found that video distressing, too.  And like you, I\'d have been devastated and would have taken action, had one of my kids done something like that.  But parental discipline is about teaching kids what\'s right - and what love looks like.  NOT having more dreadful vengeance! All he is teaching, is that the hardest hitter wins!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:10.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.1','',0,0),(1306,5034,'randonlychad','gandalf239@gmail.com','http://randomlychad.com','166.147.78.48','2012-02-14 16:08:38','2012-02-15 00:08:38','Bravo, Alise! I know we don\'t see eye-to-eye about everything, but this piece is spot-on! I 100% agree. In fact, I wrote about this today, too:\r\n\r\nhttp://randomlychad.com',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,0),(1307,5034,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.2.202','2012-02-14 21:02:57','2012-02-15 05:02:57','Alise, nice article. I bet the guy didn\'t think the video would go viral. That being said, he still is responsible for what he did. He probably thought it was creative. But it wasn\'t. I\'ve seen a couple of interviews where he shows no remorse. I don\'t care for that. There has to be a balance between the proper discipline of our children (carried out in love) and our embarrassment of them. I doubt he realized the video would go this far, but I would like to see some remorse in protecting his daughter\'s identity and shame she must now feel. \r\n\r\nI\'m also slightly disturbed by the \"fans\" of this sensation. Surely there is a better way to discipline our children than taking them into the public forum, displaying our family issues for all to see, and putting our kids in the way of mockery.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,12),(1308,5034,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2012-02-15 03:37:46','2012-02-15 11:37:46','You bring up an important point. If God is a parent, we need to parent with that in mind. The same short-term result will not necessarily produce the same long-term result.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.46 Safari/535.11','',1302,30),(1309,5034,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2012-02-15 03:42:39','2012-02-15 11:42:39','I think that video was a lot more about her than it was about him. His tone was condescending. He mocked her attitude (which, believe me, is a crap attitude) in front of now almost 24 million people. Yes, I think that\'s in the realm of cyber-bullying. Tit for tat is simply not the way we should parent. \r\n\r\nIntimidation and fear might work, but I don\'t think it works in the way that produces any kind of long-term positive results.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.46 Safari/535.11','',1304,30),(1310,5034,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2012-02-15 04:16:31','2012-02-15 12:16:31','Exactly. I totally get why he did it, from an emotional stand-point. But I really think that we need to treat social media with far more care. And that\'s my biggest frustration with the piece and the reaction to it. That we simply ignore the implications of what it means to bring our family grievances to the whole world.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.46 Safari/535.11','',1305,30),(1311,5034,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2012-02-15 04:19:04','2012-02-15 12:19:04','Thanks! Gonna\' go check your piece now!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.46 Safari/535.11','',1306,30),(1312,5034,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2012-02-15 04:26:21','2012-02-15 12:26:21','Oh, I\'m sure he didn\'t intend for it to go viral, but that\'s kind of the point. We never know what will happen with what we put \"out there.\" So we need to be careful with how we approach these things.\r\n\r\nAnd yes, I\'m even more surprised by the overwhelming support that I see for this. It just seems to fly in the face of the prevailing advice that we should protect our kids on the internet. I just don\'t see how you can say one and at the same time support this father\'s actions.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.46 Safari/535.11','',1307,30),(1313,3951,'Elaine Hansen','elaine@jimhendersonpresents.com','http://resignationofeve.com','174.101.177.205','2012-02-15 06:43:55','2012-02-15 14:43:55','Thanks for the thoughtful review of Jim’s book. To be transparent, I want it known I am a friend of Jim’s and work “with” him. It has been fun to see the conversations that have been stimulated by this book. It is a conversation that has now been made public. Long overdue.\r\n\r\nAfter more than 50 years in the church, I currently find myself to be a church refugee. I was always a key volunteer in church and five years on staff at a megachurch before leaving. \r\n\r\nIt seems to me that people/church leadership are more rigid today about women not leading men than almost anytime I can remember. I also think they are more rigid in dictating what a man\'s role \"should\" be -leaving no space for men who have felt called to be househusbands or an egalitarian marriage.\r\n\r\nI’d like to invite you and your readers to our Resignation of Eve Cloud Conference on Feb. 27 @8pm EST – you only need a telephone to join the call and have a chance to participate in a conversation with Jim and the women of RoE when we virtually break you into small groups.\r\n\r\nhttp://myaccount.maestroconference.com/conference/register/D5YMSUE4530RMOB\r\n\r\nYou can read more about it here:\r\nhttp://resignationofeve.com/roe-cloud-conference/',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1314,5046,'Elaine Hansen','elaine@jimhendersonpresents.com','http://resignationofeve.com','174.101.177.205','2012-02-15 09:56:06','2012-02-15 17:56:06','Thank you. We do not know what weight Whitney was carrying that drove her to the life she lived.. I pray she is at peace now.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.77 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(1315,4792,'Sarah','angel_beintedos@yahoo.com','','202.81.30.42','2012-02-17 02:23:53','2012-02-17 10:23:53','This is a beautiful article. I have a loved one who was diagnosed with bipolar disorder recently and it has been a struggle because not everyone understands what mental illness is really like. As much as I want to seek the support of friends and family, I have shied away from talking about it because I am afraid that others may not understand. Thank you for speaking out on my behalf, and on behalf of those who suffer from this illness.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:10.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.1','',0,0),(1316,4889,'Colleen Ann Guest','colleen@colleenannguest.com','http://colleenannguest.com','76.182.29.255','2012-02-17 03:03:55','2012-02-17 11:03:55','Very thoughtfully written and I find myself in parallel to you!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; en-us; pcdadr6350 Build/GRJ22) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1','',0,0),(1317,4792,'Laura Droege','laura_droege@bellsouth.net','http://lauradroege.wordpress.com','98.67.168.56','2012-02-17 05:26:36','2012-02-17 13:26:36','Sarah, thanks for reading. Some people won\'t understand (and that hurts), but others will. I hope that you can find the support that you need during this time.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',1315,146),(1318,5041,'Jules','ubemindful@gmail.com','','74.124.136.33','2012-02-17 09:21:43','2012-02-17 17:21:43','Awesome! I can\'t wait for the rest:) Joy is laughter, and It seems to me that Sadness was never part of the original plan. I\'m quite convinced that there will be uncontainable giggling in the presence of the Almighty one, once we realize he loves us! The sounds of my children laughing during play AND during work are some of the most beautiful sounds on earth. God loves it when his children laugh :oD',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,0),(1324,4639,'marshall marcus','marshallwashere@gmail.com','','66.74.80.187','2012-02-17 12:41:15','2012-02-17 20:41:15','travis i dont see how this helps the church, i dont see how it helps the body of Christ, it seems like people who arent christian are always calling christians unloving, judgmental, and bigoted, and it seems like youre just joining their chorus\r\n\r\nall christians are fallen, and none are as loving as they should be, neither is any church... but people who arent christian call us unloving and judgmental primarily because they perceive the message of the gospel to be unloving and judgmental\r\n\r\nand if you join their chorus, for whatever reason, it just seems like youre saying the same exact thing that theyre saying',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',0,0),(1323,5041,'Jeremy Stephens','jeremylovesjesus@gmail.com','http://www.quarterlifechristian.com','71.56.47.104','2012-02-17 12:22:05','2012-02-17 20:22:05','Thanks for the comment! There is far too much mention of joy in the Bible for anyone to not have smile lines.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1318,0),(1326,4639,'marshall marcus','marshallwashere@gmail.com','','66.74.80.187','2012-02-17 13:40:08','2012-02-17 21:40:08','it just seems like your saying that most christians arent loving in order to comfort those who deny that Jesus died to save them because of a bad church experience(s)\r\n\r\nhow does it help someone, whose had a bad experience with christians, come to christ, by you saying \'most christians, like the ones you met, arent loving, but i\'m not like that\'\r\n\r\nhow does it help them\r\n\r\nthe only help i see is that they\'ll think- \'wow, it wasnt just the christians that i met who are judgmental and unloving, but most christians everywhere are that way\'',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',0,0),(1327,5046,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2012-02-17 13:43:16','2012-02-17 21:43:16','Wow.  Yes, that is exactly the question to ask--what will we do with Jesus in this life.  I love that the answer isn\'t contained within the question.\r\n\r\n“I don’t get to make the call about people’s salvation. But I know that this man was at peace with God when he died. He knew that Jesus loved him.”  Beautiful words!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:10.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.1','',0,43),(1328,4639,'Travis Klassen','travklassen@me.com','http://earthtourist.org','96.53.86.134','2012-02-17 13:54:05','2012-02-17 21:54:05','Hi again, I\'m not going to continue debate on this, but yes, I am speaking comfort, love and peace to the ones who\'ve been hurt in the church, in hopes that they won\'t reject the way of Jesus just because some of us have abused it. Peace.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; .NET4.0C; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; InfoPath.1)','',1326,149),(1367,5296,'Jerry Dobbels','vdobbelu@yahoo.com','','71.222.22.137','2012-02-27 10:01:02','2012-02-27 18:01:02','Well done! In this world you will have trouble. Why are we as \"Christians\" surprised by that?\r\nI had a similar experience while listening to Led Zeppelin\'s, \"When The Levy Breaks.\" God meets us in the tombs just as He did Lazarus and \"redeems.\"\r\nThank you for revealing a little of your heart.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,0),(1329,4639,'marshall marcus','marshallwashere@gmail.com','','66.74.80.187','2012-02-17 14:06:44','2012-02-17 22:06:44','youre giving them worldy comfort, and worldy love by telling them what they want to hear\r\n\r\nshare the gospel with those who have rejected Jesus, for whatever reason, if your goal is to save them',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',0,0),(1330,4889,'Laura','lauraknowlescavanaugh@gmail.com','http://bodytheologyblog.wordpress.com','68.6.89.186','2012-02-17 19:47:37','2012-02-18 03:47:37','I resonated with your inner struggle over \"how\" to serve God without \"being in ministry\" vocationally. It\'s in my personality to prefer a supportive role, but that is because of my personality, not my gender.  I\'m learning to be more bold on my blog http://bodytheologyblog.wordpress.com. Thank you for joining the conversation and advocating for gender equality. God calls all people to participate in the body of Christ!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:10.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.1','',0,0),(1331,5034,'Raelene','raeleneroth@yahoo.com','','67.172.164.78','2012-02-17 23:06:43','2012-02-18 07:06:43','I agree with you, 100%, \"MiCoBa.\"  Great point, also, about how she could--in a sense--\"blame\" the video, or her Dad, if she was in a situation where she didn\'t want to risk feeling \"uncool.\"  I just finished reading the book, \"Grown Up Digital\" and it was an awesome book about the pros and cons of the \"net-generation\" and something that continues to resonate is that children, such as the age of his daughter, truly don\'t know the impact of unleashing privacy out on Social Media mediums, so I imagine it\'s better that she learns it this way, then from the repercussions if she posts pics of herself in the nude, or exposes herself in some other socially-unacceptable manner.  Nobody knows if this will do her harm, or not, and there isn\'t a cookie-cutter way to parent a child.  Personally, I love the values this father represents.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; GTB7.2; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; InfoPath.2; AskTbDIC3V5/5.9.1.14132)','',1304,0),(1332,2889,'Cdenck','casperdenck@gmail.com','http://www.nicodemist.wordpress.com','62.255.199.1','2012-02-18 11:38:28','2012-02-18 19:38:28','Coincidentally i am writing something on Benetton at the moment following on from an earlier post of mine on the subject (http://wp.me/pTiEZ-Ho). I am not at all sure I share your view that this is a courageous campaign. UCoB are employing a deliberate marketing campaign that yes may provoke but is, ultimately, about maximising sales. It is a tactic they have used for decades - I don\'t see a tried and tested (and arguably expolitative) marketing technique as a courageous act.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,161),(1333,2889,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','108.231.135.1','2012-02-18 13:31:22','2012-02-18 21:31:22','Cdenck, I want to point out that I didn\'t say courageous.  I said bold and risky.  There is a difference.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1332,1),(1334,2889,'Cdenck','casperdenck@gmail.com','http://www.nicodemist.wordpress.com','62.255.199.1','2012-02-18 13:42:34','2012-02-18 21:42:34','You\'re right you didn\'t - not sure why I decided you had (clearly not reading closely enough!) That said, I don\'t see it as bold and certainly not risky move either - it\'s precisely the same marketing campaign that has served them well commercially in the past.  \r\n\r\nThat they are provocative and inspiring images is not in doubt though.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,161),(1335,4889,'Brooke Eikenberry','brooke.eikenberry@gmail.com','http://30somethingcrisis.tumblr.com/','65.190.94.26','2012-02-18 16:45:44','2012-02-19 00:45:44','Laura-- I think that is an important distinction to make-- that leadership roles have more to do with personality (and calling), and less to do with gender. Thanks for the feedback!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',1330,48),(1336,5046,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.14.88','2012-02-18 20:46:34','2012-02-19 04:46:34','Thanks Elaine for your comment. She had a troubled life, but don\'t we all? Many may speculate about the choices we make, but in the end, our Creator has the final say.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',1314,12),(1337,5046,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.14.88','2012-02-18 20:52:54','2012-02-19 04:52:54','Amy, when I heard Bro. Kevin say that, I knew those words would stay with me for a lifetime. It reminded me of the embattled life of Dietrich Bonhoffer. There are people today who question whether he is in heaven because of his progressive theology. But there was a man sold out to living a life to boldly proclaiming Christ in the social realm. \r\n\r\nAll of us have to live up to answering that question. What will we do with the man from Galilee? His life, his words, his impact has caused converts, controversy, and compassion for centuries. \r\n\r\nIn the end, though, it is up to each of us to decide how we will respond to him. Was he who he claimed to be? If he was, how will I then live? Thank you for your comment.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',1327,12),(1338,5041,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.14.88','2012-02-18 21:00:54','2012-02-19 05:00:54','Jeremy, great stuff. When people ask me questions, or I find myself struggling, I always know I can find the answer in one of two places: In the chracter of God or in the cross and work of Christ. \r\n\r\nOne thing I learned a while back is that God has many attributes: mercy, love, wrath, judgment, etc. But he is able to practice all his attributes equally at the same time. Then, when I look at Christ, I see God incarnate. But I also see him as fully human. I wrote a series about that recently. If Christ was fully human and fully God, he was amazing. He had a sense of humor. Laughing, joking, smiling. Sometimes, in my worst moments, it helps me to imagine my Savior during his ministry laughing. Being carefree. He had to, right? To get through some of the tough times?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,12),(1339,5034,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.14.88','2012-02-18 21:08:32','2012-02-19 05:08:32','I\'m a little worried too that this action might create copycat actions by other parents. I saw in an interview where child services showed up and he expected them. He showed them his guns, that they were unloaded and he was counseled on using harsh language. \r\n\r\nI don\'t necessarily think its the job of the state to step in and tell parents they shouldn\'t put up videos of Internet discipline. That being said, it shouldn\'t be happening. I hope parents understand this is an extreme display of behavior that is not to be praised or copied - for our children\'s sake.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',1312,12),(1340,5010,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.14.88','2012-02-18 21:16:23','2012-02-19 05:16:23','Vince has good insights, I think. What was it that God asked of Adam in the Garden? Obedience. That\'s the hallmark trait of a God follower. But obedience of the heart is in itself an act of worship. In Hosea 6:6, God says \"For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice, the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.\" \r\n\r\nHow often do we offer up empty hymns and songs without our actual daily obedience? I honestly believe God wants our obedience to Him and His word, acted out in love. We all know what that\'s like. When we are in tune with Him, our worship flows so much more freely and passionately. \r\n\r\nObedience must proceed worship or it is empty.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,12),(1341,5066,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.14.88','2012-02-18 21:26:02','2012-02-19 05:26:02','Deanna, kudos on another great article. \r\n\r\nI have to admit that a majority of a great relationship is being happy with who you are with. Seeing them for who they are. \r\n\r\nI\'ve found my best friend in my wife. I\'ve never known that kind of relationship before. I get into trouble, though, when I place unrealistic expectations upon her. Expectations that no one could meet. Those expectations exist because of some disturbing part of my psyche that won\'t allow her to be her. It doesn\'t happen often, but it\'s not a problem with her, it\'s a problem with me. \r\n\r\nWe function best when my anxiety is at bay and we just exist together. As best friends. The way we were created to be. \r\n\r\nAnd, yes. George Lucas needs to stop messing around. I read a great article the other day that said the prequels should have been an intensive storyline about Anakin and Obi Wan. With a different actor than Christansen. Lord.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,12),(1342,4814,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.14.88','2012-02-18 21:28:50','2012-02-19 05:28:50','Joy, this is beautiful for so many reasons. Mostly, though, it reminds me of when I used to sneak and read my mother\'s private prayer journals. Excellent.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,12),(1343,4688,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.14.88','2012-02-18 21:35:01','2012-02-19 05:35:01','Good thinking, Amy. What I find even more disturbing in our society is how Christians think they are to be caught up directly in the line of politics for the name of God. \r\n\r\n\"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar\'s\" comes to mind. The story you posted is one example. Politicians are happy to invoke their Christianity in an election year to stir the vote, and the electorate often responds. But after election day, Caesar forgets the voting public.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,12),(1344,4639,'Ariel Terry','t.ariel.terry@gmail.com','','99.249.230.149','2012-02-19 00:01:33','2012-02-19 08:01:33','We aren\'t meant to save people. The best advice I ever heard, about being a Christian, is to realize, as you relate with people, that God is ministering to you and the person who you\'re speaking with. We are made to relate, not to save. There\'s incredible pressure in the Christian world to save souls, and that is not our mandate. Small wonder, when the goals are so lofty, and impossible, that people disengage early on in the process. Love this article. It\'s ok to doubt, it\'s ok to voice doubt. There is a provision of grace, and an assignment of \'right standing\' to the ones who\'ve voiced their doubts loudly: Job, Sarai, Gideon, Esther, and more. If I can\'t be vocal about my doubts, fears, bitterness, and sins, then I\'m helping foster a system of repression, hypocrisy, and secret defeat. We idealize people who seem to publicly succeed, but we need to learn the lessons of how they are succeeding. I think it is only in truthful, faithful, non-judgemental relationship with others, that we get our healing.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',0,0),(1345,5066,'Kaitlin Moroney','sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com','http://kaitlinallen24.blogspot.com','67.5.103.122','2012-02-19 09:23:54','2012-02-19 17:23:54','Awesomeness issues forth from your fingertips, yet again. I love this. \r\n\r\nI think the fundamental difference between the \"roses and chocolate\" romance and the \"make fun of Star Wars together\" kind of romance is simply friendship. Girls who demand the former want a lover for life (something that is impossible for 99.9% of anybody to maintain for forever). Girls who want the latter want a best friend for life. \r\n\r\nWhich is why I love my husband so much! We do everything together that a gal would normally do with her \"bff\". We go to the mall to people watch. We go out for drinks at night and talk about the actors/actresses we find to be super hot. We discuss the pros and cons of Double Stuff vs. Regular Oreos. I tell him when my husband is being annoying ( ;D) and he consoles me. \r\n\r\nI love getting flowers and chocolates. I adore when my husband writes me hand-written letters. But neither of those things make up the essence of our relationship. Because we are best friends long before we are lovers. \r\n\r\nAmazing post. You are awesome.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.2','',0,78),(1346,4814,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2012-02-19 13:31:43','2012-02-19 21:31:43','Well, your mother and I have at least two things in common:  we\'re mothers (duh) and my poetry was my private journal for most of my life.  Thanks for the comment, Ray.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',1342,35),(1347,5046,'Judy','jlsr77@comcast.net','','69.249.38.186','2012-02-19 17:32:01','2012-02-20 01:32:01','Hello Ray,\n\nI\'m visiting from Chris Sanchez\'s blog. You\'re post is very moving. Like the man who died young and saved, so did Whitney. At Whitney\'s funeral, her bodyguard said that he was with her almost everyday and that Whitney would carry her bible with her wherever she went. And he said her bible \"was torn up; torn up. She had passages underlined and highlighted [throughout her entire bible]. And if she thought she\'d forgotten it, she would look through her belongings until she found it.\" So yes, Whitney may have struggled with drugs and alcohol for many years and made many mistakes, but she was saved and loved the Lord. And because of this she is in heaven with the Lord Jesus. I, too, wrote about Whitney and her funeral and how profound it was. Please click <a href=\"http://virtuouswomanministry.blogspot.com\" rel=\"nofollow\">here.</a> to read my devotional/article and please leave a comment.\n\nBlessings,\nJudy',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,0),(1348,5066,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','68.42.103.46','2012-02-19 22:34:10','2012-02-20 06:34:10','\"We function best when my anxiety is at bay and we just exist together. As best friends. The way we were created to be.\"\r\n\r\nRay, I totally know what you mean. Life is most peaceful in my house when we are coexisting the way my husband and I were designed. I\'ve found that a lot of stress in my friends\' relationships come from unreasonable expectations put on the other. I\'m not perfect by any means, but I promised myself early on not to be a nagging woman to my husband, and to not be the kind of girl to trash talk him behind his back. And part of that promise is what I talked about.\r\n\r\nThere\'s nothing wrong with helping each other become better people, but when we expect our spouses to behave like they came straight out of movies, we run into trouble.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',1341,38),(1349,5066,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','68.42.103.46','2012-02-19 22:36:12','2012-02-20 06:36:12','Kaitlin, you totally nailed the point on the head! Friendship. BFFs for lyfe!\r\n\r\n\"We go out for drinks at night and talk about the actors/actresses we find to be super hot.\" You guys do this too!? \r\n\r\nAlso, husband is a double-stuff and I\'m a single-stuff kind of girl. I prefer more cookie. ;)\r\n\r\nThanks, and you\'re the coolest!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',1345,38),(1350,4688,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2012-02-21 06:50:07','2012-02-21 14:50:07','Yes, exactly.  I will never understand how Jesus\' words to the rich young ruler (to give away his wealth) has somehow turned into the idea of withholding wealth from people in need.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.2','',1343,43),(1351,4700,'Liz Dyer','lizdyer55@gmail.com','http://gracerules.wordpress.com/','63.240.122.129','2012-02-22 12:10:04','2012-02-22 20:10:04','I am reading it now and loving it!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',0,132),(1352,5168,'Liz Dyer','lizdyer55@gmail.com','http://gracerules.wordpress.com/','63.240.122.129','2012-02-22 12:20:43','2012-02-22 20:20:43','Glenn,  What a beautiful beautiful message that we all need to hear and give out on a daily basis.  You\'re good enough!  You\'re good enough!  You\'re good enough!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',0,132),(1353,5168,'Melody H Hanson (@melodyhhanson)','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2012-02-22 14:03:41','2012-02-22 22:03:41','I certainly resonate with this!  Can I just take a moment to say that you are a gifted writer?  Your words flowed, one to the next in a way that made me want to read more.  And that\'s saying something because there\'s so much noise out there and too much to read everywhere.   Keep it up, is all I\'m saying.  Write.  You have a gift. \r\n\r\nAnd about the human condition, insecure and afraid, unwilling to risk, prone to self-medicating -- been there, done that.:  amen! \r\n\r\nThanks for this post.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',0,0),(1354,5168,'Glenn Hager','glennhager1@gmail.com','http://glennhager1.wordpress.com','76.245.207.7','2012-02-22 19:05:49','2012-02-23 03:05:49','Liz - All I can say is, I know! We hear too many of the other kind of messages and repeat them to ourselves way too often.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',1352,144),(1355,5168,'Glenn Hager','glennhager1@gmail.com','http://glennhager1.wordpress.com','76.245.207.7','2012-02-22 19:07:41','2012-02-23 03:07:41','Melody - Most or all of us have been there! I appreciate your kind words!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',1353,144),(1356,5034,'wayne rumsby','wayne@rumsby.ca','','99.231.82.159','2012-02-23 06:23:12','2012-02-23 14:23:12','I don\'t think this is just about parenting. I think it\'s really about our western culture and the justified use of force/violence to solve problems. This man is steeped in the gun culture, just look at his other u-tube videos.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,0),(1357,5041,'Jeremy Stephens','jeremylovesjesus@gmail.com','http://www.quarterlifechristian.com','71.56.47.104','2012-02-23 13:57:55','2012-02-23 21:57:55','I think you\'re absolutely right. And I think a good laugh now and then was probably the best way to handle some of the Pharisees\' more...interesting...responses to His questions.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',1338,0),(1358,5082,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.18.181.160','2012-02-23 20:47:31','2012-02-23 20:47:31','Anna, I love what you are trying to do here but it doesn\'t seem to flow.  I\'m not seeing the overall thread you are trying to accomplish here.  Can you fill me in on what you are trying to say or rewrite it?  Thanks.',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','editorial-comment',0,0),(1400,5296,'Stephen Haggerty','stephenhaggerty@gmail.com','http://thebeardedidealist.com','74.60.29.216','2012-03-09 21:49:52','2012-03-10 05:49:52','... in a way that Bill Gather couldn\'t have, I for one am glad to be seeing the shift! Here\'s to celebrating creativity and a high standard for creating good art! :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.78 Safari/535.11','',1399,0),(1360,5216,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.18.181.160','2012-02-23 21:44:59','2012-02-23 21:44:59','Jeff, you are putting personal profiles in your post.  Please leave them in your profile page.  Thanks.',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','editorial-comment',0,0),(1399,5296,'Stephen Haggerty','stephenhaggerty@gmail.com','http://thebeardedidealist.com','74.60.29.216','2012-03-09 21:45:45','2012-03-10 05:45:45','It\'s interesting how an older school of thought saw music divided into two camps: that which is Christian, and hence was approved and created by God, and that which is secular, and hence condemned by God as a creation of Satan.\r\n\r\nMore often today we\'re seeing Christians discern beyond this false dichotomy and realize that God is the author of creativity, and speaks truth into humanity through means that go beyond just praise and worship music.  Though many Believers of yesterdays past would turn in their grave if they heard you say God spoke to you through Lars Ulrich',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.78 Safari/535.11','',0,0),(1363,4639,'Tony Roland','tr@pb-east.com','http://pool7665','68.59.255.148','2012-02-25 11:10:34','2012-02-25 19:10:34','I think Marshall\'s comments make a good case for the results of church programed life. I wish I could say one good thing about what church does to people but, unfortunately I can not. Because church is just an institution it can not give life. It can give you a false identity as a believer. Primarily it produces a club where membership is by saying a prayer, and then trying to do better (keep the Law). As one who knows first hand, I can not keep the Law, and as Marshall understands he can not keep the Law either. This leads to a rather sad conclusion (based on the failure of Law, and rule keeping), we are just poor ole sinners saved by grace just doin the best we can. People should not say bad things about us, because truthfully Lord knows were a peddling as fast as we can.\nThe truth is church is not God\'s idea, it is not His plan. It is fallen man\'s plan and few have ever questioned it. So the reason our dear brothers and sisters are having such a poor experience in their Christian lives, is that they are not living Christian lives. It is not because we do not want to, because we do, we REALLY DO want to. We are drinking from a poisoned well named church. People have been drinking at this trough for 1700 years ever since Constantine organized Christians into the church business in 306 AD.\nToday if we can hear His voice, Jesus is calling to us. He is calling us unto Himself out side of the camp. There is a large group of Jesus followers already there, and best of all Jesus is already there, won\'t you come and seek Him today?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.2','',0,0),(1364,5054,'Marni Arnold','marni@relevantbrokenness.com','http://RelevantBrokenness.com','98.24.78.34','2012-02-25 16:58:17','2012-02-26 00:58:17','Two things...\r\n\r\n1) I am right there with you concerning the conservative voice you have. I, too, have found myself amidst a minority here - but alas, as you state in this post, and I fully concur, \"I don’t always agree with my fellow writers here, but I stand by their right to say whatever they want.\" I am absolutely right there with you.\r\n\r\nNow...\r\n\r\n2) I am a HUGE Garth fan...and this is one of my favorite songs. I am so thankful and grateful you focused on the message of this song, because truly that is the full intention of the message itself. Thank you for shedding light on this...thank you! We need it now, more than ever, in our society today - with so many differing voices and viewpoints. We need to be supportive of one another in how we see things, giving one another the grace God gives us all to grow and develop (even in our differences) in the timing He deems proper - not how we judge appropriate.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',0,82),(1365,5054,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.33.6','2012-02-25 18:36:11','2012-02-26 02:36:11','Well said, Marni. Thank you for adding to the article. It\'s a voice and song that rings true today, for sure.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.2','',1364,12),(1366,5200,'Ed','ed@inpulsearts.com','http://www.inpulsearts.com/Word','68.108.128.243','2012-02-25 20:53:55','2012-02-26 04:53:55','I\'ve been thinking along this same ling all week. There\'s a part of me that\'s always thinkig \"What\'s next?\", or \"I can\'t wait until so-and-so day.\" But then I think \"Hey, don\'t look ahead so much and enjoy today!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(1368,5296,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','209.49.70.10','2012-02-27 10:41:59','2012-02-27 18:41:59','Thank you Jerry.  Can you share a little about what happened in your case?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.2','',1367,1),(1369,5296,'Tony Roland','tr@pb-east.com','','68.59.255.148','2012-02-27 11:39:52','2012-02-27 19:39:52','Jonathan,\r\nAs the Lord graciously tears every box I carefully construct to contain Him apart. I am lighter and freer for it. To the heart who seeks the Lord as it\'s only resource, all things in that context is pure. Blessed and happy are the pure in heart for they will see God...................in everything.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.2','',0,0),(1370,5296,'Jason Campbell','exsell_2112@yahoo.com','','208.107.10.98','2012-02-27 13:24:48','2012-02-27 21:24:48','Jon,\n\nGreat Article!  I was raised in a very similar way.  Church music=good, Secular music in any form=evil   This created a very confused individual.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.2','',0,0),(1371,5296,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','209.49.70.10','2012-02-27 16:51:22','2012-02-28 00:51:22','Jason, I sometimes wonder what life would have been like as a young boy had I not been afraid of all that music.  I remember hearing Back in Black and thinking, \"This is insanely good music.\" No pun intended.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.2','',1370,1),(1372,5296,'Jerry Dobbels','vdobbelu@yahoo.com','','71.222.22.137','2012-02-27 17:01:40','2012-02-28 01:01:40','Let me see...The divorce of my son from his wife and children. The divorce \r\nof a man that I was in \"ministry\" with for many years. Dealing with the death of my best man in my wedding. Trying to get a grip on a decision that one of my sons has made about living as a gay man.\r\n\r\nAll of these things (except the one about my son wanting to be gay) happened within a three to four month period of time last year. This all hit me while on the treadmill one day. Right at the time I was listening to \"When The Levee Breaks.\" Right from the beginning of the song where it says, \"If it keeps on rainin\', Levee is gonna to break\r\nIf it keeps on rainin\', Levee is gonna to break\r\nWhen the Levee breaks, I\'ll have no place to stay\r\n\r\nMean old Levee taught me to weep and moan\r\nMean old Levee taught me to weep and moan\r\nIt\'s got what it takes to make a mountain man leave his home\r\nOh, well, oh, well, oh, well.\"\r\n\r\nI lost it. The \"Levee\" was my life, while the rain was the sorrow I was feeling. I wept and moaned a very long time. \r\n\r\nI believe that some kind of infusion took place between my spirit and God\'s Spirit when my \"Levee\" broke. After a year things are still pretty much the same, but I am not the same man that I used to be because of that encounter.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',1368,0),(1373,5296,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','209.49.70.10','2012-02-27 18:25:08','2012-02-28 02:25:08','I have had that same experience with that song.  Different circumstances but the song was pivotal.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.2','',1372,1),(1374,3023,'Jerry Dobbels','vdobbelu@yahoo.com','','71.222.22.137','2012-02-27 22:28:48','2012-02-28 06:28:48','No father ever wants to hear from his son that his son  wants to be with another man. No matter which way you slice it, Just speaking from personal experience.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,0),(1375,5296,'Ryan Peter','ryanpeterwrites@gmail.com','http://www.ryanpeterwrites.com','198.54.202.210','2012-02-27 22:44:23','2012-02-28 06:44:23','\"Metallica’s music represented the darker side of life, one that “Christian” music tended to ignore.\"\r\n\r\nMost \'Christian\' music still doesn\'t. :P\r\n\r\nIt\'s a sad reality, that. Here we are, exploring the depths of God and what it means to live with Him, in Him, as we journey through this life. And the best music we can come up with are some poppy tunes with shallow lyrics.\r\n\r\nI had a strange experience many years ago that could only have been experienced to understand. Nevertheless, it was still a big moment for me. I remember staring out at the sea at night, wondering about the despair of my life at that point (nothing tragic, but I was very lonely at the time) and saw the deep, dark, blackness of each wave as it crashed onto the shore. I had this awkward realisation: God is in the Black too. He is also there, in the deepest dark of our Universe. Something of the mystery of God struck me. He created night. And it was good. He makes all things good. God is just never exactly what we expect Him to be.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',0,165),(1376,5296,'Ryan Peter','ryanpeterwrites@gmail.com','http://www.ryanpeterwrites.com','198.54.202.210','2012-02-27 22:44:55','2012-02-28 06:44:55','*Most \'Christian\' music still DOES. Sorry, typo!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',0,165),(1377,2624,'Ryan Peter','ryanpeterwrites@gmail.com','http://www.ryanpeterwrites.com','196.25.255.210','2012-02-27 23:25:51','2012-02-28 07:25:51','I\'m a little late to this party, but I thought I would post anyway :)\r\n\r\nFrom the post: “Christianity was the only Religion about Love”. Really? Really? Have you explored any other religions? My personal experience with other, non-Christian religions is they really are about love.\"\r\n\r\nI understand and appreciate your perspective here Bronwen :) But actually I do have to say that the speaker who said this wasn\'t too far off, given this quote (I don\'t know the rest of what he said). It really boils down to how that religion defines love.\r\n\r\nJesus defined love by going to a cross, to show just how much God loves us and how unconditionally He loves us - without the need for us to make atonement. If you look closely at the system of Karma, however, you realise just how short it actually falls in forming a healthy relationship with God or a healthy relationship with ourselves. I can\'t see Karma as anything close to love; it\'s a system, a machine, that we must try and manipulate to find salvation. (I\'m using Western terms for ease of understanding.)\r\n\r\nBecause Karma is all about you, as a person, finding a way to atone for your sins so that you can eventually escape this life and enter Nirvana. We are reborn in many lives so that we may eventually atone for our bad deeds by offsetting it with good deeds. \r\n\r\nJesus makes things different because the relational aspect becomes central - as Romans 3 says, a righteousness has now been revealed as apart from the law. That \'righteousness of God\' is grace, not law, not Karma, no longer Torah, but grace and mercy and peace and love and communion and union and joy and mystery. \r\n\r\nKarma offers no love, only deeds. At its core it offers no grace - you either win or you lose. And you have to work very hard to win.\r\n\r\nSecondly, knowing people who live in Buddhist nations, they have seen some horrific things in the name of \'love\'. Because very often the way we \'atone\' (I use that word simply for ease of understanding) for our bad deeds in the system of Karma is by going through suffering. In other words, the suffering we see in the world is seen as Karma putting things right, and therefore we must go through suffering in this life to have a better life in the next. So, in an orphanage they found the caretakers were abusing the children and claimed that this was done \'in love\' because if they caused these poor orphans to suffer even more in this life, then the orphans would have a better next life.\r\n\r\nYou can understand the logic. But I juxtapose that against Jesus and I see two very different kinds of love operating. I put Jesus next to Karma and I see a very different kind of love operating.\r\n\r\nI know many buddhists would disagree with the way I\'ve outlined this idea above, but that\'s OK. Much like Christians, many Buddhists no doubt have their own way of processing and understanding the teaching. \r\n\r\nI like how CS Lewis worked this topic out. Rather than thinking Christianity as completely and utterly different and exclusive, he calls it a more \'mature\' view. He takes the idea that in every religion there is some truth, but in Christianity all the Truth comes together in a much more mature understanding, because all Truth points to Jesus Christ, the person. This means we needn\'t be unloving towards people of other faiths and we can learn from them, but as long as we don\'t lose sight of Jesus as central and the climax of all journeys towards God. The person of Jesus is salvation, not the system of teaching that goes around Him (Christianity, or Christendom).\r\n\r\nThe way you\'ve interpreted Jesus saying \"I AM the way, truth and life\" I think misses the glorious point of Jesus, the person, being the way, the truth and the life. To relegate it to simply his way of life and teaching is to put oneself back under a religious system rather than a religious (devoted) relationship. Ironically, doing this probably does the very opposite I think you\'re trying to achieve. \r\n\r\nJesus shows us who God is and opens it up for us to commune with this God. Karma, however, does not show us who God is. Karma is a kind of justice system that falls short of God\'s righteousness, which is grace and peace and mercy and sacrificial love. \r\n\r\nI hope I don\'t come across as disrespectful here, but I did feel it would be good to bring these points up. Grace and peace.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',0,165),(1378,5225,'Tony Roland','tr@pb-east.com','','68.59.255.148','2012-02-28 08:29:16','2012-02-28 16:29:16','Hello Ryan,\r\nI too am from a non-denominational  evangelical-charismatic background myself. The Lord has lead me on an interesting path this last year that has opened my eyes in a way that answered so many questions. These questions have been on my mind for years, and I just could not get answers or clarity until I had some distance from church and religion. I got kicked out of a very hip/cool young  non-denominational  evangelical-charismatic church a year ago. They wanted me to get the message that asking questions about what we do or why we do it can be good cause for excommunication.  I was upset at the beginning, and then the Lord began to open my eyes to things I could have never seen Had I continued in ministry at that church (or any church for that matter). Church attendance and submitting to other humans as spiritual authority over our lives, actually interferes with our personal relationship to Christ. This seems to be a universal truth. We are designed for intimacy with Jesus. He is our head, we are to come to Him and learn from Him. If you are interested in dialoging further on this subject, please feel free to email me.\r\nAll the Best!\r\nTony\r\ntr@pb-east.com',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.2','',0,0),(1379,5296,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','98.99.83.38','2012-02-28 10:51:11','2012-02-28 18:51:11','Ryan, I think when we learn to explore the darker side of life, Christianity will once again be known as a courageous path.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.2','',1375,1),(1380,5296,'Jerry Dobbels','vdobbelu@yahoo.com','','71.222.22.137','2012-02-28 11:16:02','2012-02-28 19:16:02','Ryan,\r\n\r\nI really like what you wrote, it reminded me of a book I am re-reading called, \"The Lazarus Life.\" \r\nGod is in the deepest, darkest, tombs of our life. A quote from the book, \"A religion that does not embrace the tomb is only a feel-good religion, not an authentic relationship with God.\"\r\n\r\nThanks for sharing',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.12 (KHTML, like Gecko) Maxthon/3.3.4.4000 Chrome/18.0.966.0 Safari/535.12','',0,0),(1381,5177,'Charles Kinnaird','clkinnai@samford.edu','http://notdarkyet-commentary.blogspot.com/','66.32.89.53','2012-02-28 12:42:50','2012-02-28 20:42:50','I haven\'t read Hauerwas, but I am inclined to feel the same way as you have expressed it here. To claim that Christ has already ended war it to deny the horrible military conflicts that are occurring even now. On the other hand, I do think that we are in a day in which we Christians must stop talking about \"just war.\" That whole just war theology was an accommodation to political powers and human failure. Especially in this day of nuclear armament, the church must be a prophetic voice to call for better ways to settle conflicts. The Quakers, Amish, and Mennonites have succeeded in opting out of war, and they bear witness to that vision of peace that Hauerwas seems to appeal to.  For humanity to succeed, we must put war behind us - but we are not there yet. As long as Christians continue to claim that their country is justified in taking up arms, we will not get there.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',0,0),(1382,5225,'Ryan Peter','ryanpeterwrites@gmail.com','http://www.ryanpeterwrites.com','196.25.255.210','2012-02-28 13:22:29','2012-02-28 21:22:29','Hi Tony,\r\n\r\nThanks! Appreciate the feedback and the invite to converse further :)\r\n\r\nThere is a sense in which human authority over our spiritual lives is very damaging as each of us ought to work out our own salvation (Phil 2). But we can\'t take it too far, in my opinion, as we should not give up meeting together (Heb 10:25). \r\n\r\nIt\'s not fair on our leaders to make them an authority over our spiritual lives. Leaders themselves who insist that this is how it works are doing themselves a great disservice. So I agree with you on this point: we\'re not meant to submit to human authority in our spiritual lives. \r\n\r\nSpiritual leaders (pastors) are called to lead us through/in friendship and relationship. Their leadership ultimately boils down to taking a church in a direction, not individuals. They are not there to bring guidance to my life, per se, but guidance to my church life of which I am a part voluntarily.\r\n\r\nI choose to get on board as I both trust them and think community is important. Plus, I feel a church community ought to be going somewhere - having a community for the sake of a community very soon becomes problematic. A community with a vision is ultimately what pastors and leaders are there to create (pastoring the flock means leading the flock, together, through something to some where).\r\n\r\nThis would call for a whole blog post on its own, to be honest. It boils down to how authority is both understood and used, I think. On my journey I have come to the realisation that I have a responsibility to afford the same level of grace on my leaders as I would expect for them to have for me. \r\n\r\nI am quite fortunate, however, to be in a church where my leaders are truly my friends (10+ years of relationship). Because of our relationship based on friendship before function (a catch phrase in my church) asking questions is not discouraged in any way, but questions are worked out and within relationships that are placed first. \r\n\r\nIn other words, like a family but not a cult. \r\n\r\nMatters of ecclesiology and church life are difficult and painful and I affirm your points quite wholeheartedly. I feel, however, there is a way where leadership does not get in the way with our relationship to Christ. I need to clarify that my post is a critique of the larger charismatic-evangelical mindset (ie. the literature and sermons etc. that I regularly encounter) not so much my own church. I am tired in many ways of being a charismatic, as I said, but even so I am able to continue to be a part of my local church because of my friendships and I believe where the church is going is good and right.\r\n\r\nThanks again for the opportunity to dialogue with you and the great points you\'ve raised! :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',0,165),(1383,5225,'Matt @ The Church of No People','Thechurchofnopeople@gmail.com','http://Thechurchofnopeople.com','166.137.141.138','2012-02-29 07:11:27','2012-02-29 15:11:27','Great post, man!  Dead on. I think everyone is religious, we just don\'t like the word but we are creatures of habit and ritual, and we are all looking for something significant to connect to - that\'s religion!  So even \"non-religious\" people have their own religion.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2','',0,0),(1384,4866,'Rod Fry','rodmydancat@hotmail.com','','189.242.75.188','2012-02-29 08:36:35','2012-02-29 16:36:35','There\'s a poignant scene in the Passion of the Christ movie when Jesus is carrying his cross to Calvary, and his mother Mary comes near to him as he stumbles under the weight of the Christ.  His words to her through his own blood are wonderful.  \"See mother, I make all things new.\"  The gospel is something so encompassing and extraordinary that it cannot but change a soul and a society, it makes us new, and God through us restores and illuminates.  \r\n\r\nThe concepts \"make a difference\" and \"change the world\"  have been and continue to be extremely motivational for me, because I have seen the very practical results of my obedience in the lives of others.  People have come closer to God on several streets in the Mexico City metro area because I left home and decided to live there.  I hope that doesn\'t sound arrogant...it\'s just reality.  \r\n\r\nNevertheless, I do believe that if wanting to have an impact in the world is my primary motivation, well, I probably won\'t have much success.  A joyful, vibrant relationship with my Creator and Redeemer is what keeps the drum beating inside, is what keeps the fire bright.  \r\n\r\nSo I think both aspects are valid, but the order is important.  First internal, then external.  First joy and passion, then decisions and action.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.2','',0,0),(1385,4862,'Kevin Gonzaga','kglethean@gmail.com','http://speakfaithfully.wordpress.com','108.227.168.154','2012-02-29 09:31:37','2012-02-29 17:31:37','Travis,\r\n\r\nThanks for sharing your thoughts on this article.  I had a friend once ask me how I felt about someone calling the Holy Spirit or God \"Mother\" and this led into a lengthy discussion about gender in the Bible. (I wrote about some of it here: http://wp.me/pVYH7-9R)\r\n\r\nI really cringe that certain elements within Christianity attempt to reinforce patriarchy and benevolent sexism by talking about a \"masculine feel\" to Christianity but try to see them with as much grace as possible and know they do so with the best of intentions even if it results in the worst of consequences.  They take the patriarchal slant within the scriptures (which is overwhelming despite the verses you have brought up) as prescriptive for all time rather than descriptive of the ancient context.\r\n\r\nOverall this is an area of our faith that I think we need to talk about more and thanks again for sharing your thoughts on it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',0,124),(1386,5225,'Austin','aleikenberry@yahoo.com','','12.189.199.68','2012-02-29 09:54:38','2012-02-29 17:54:38','Yes, I agree wholeheartedly.\r\n\r\nI grew up in the Church of the Brethren, which is an anabaptist denomination (One of the historic peace churches in America). Was baptized while in college at a Lutheran school (which was in a Lutheran church), studied Catholic theology a bit while I was in school, spent 7+ years in leadership in an neopentecostal 5-fold ministry setting, and now am a member of a Baptist church and attending a Southern Baptist Seminary. Yes, there\'s a whole lot of difference in practice, and some significant differences in theology. Yes, they\'re all still Christian. Yes, they all represent ways that people have found to make a connection with God. Liturgy isn\'t less appropriate than praise bands - you may have a theological conviction about preaching having precedence over music, but 20 minutes of preaching is still 20 minutes of preaching, regardless of whether you call it a sermon or a homily or just preaching.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; InfoPath.3; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E)','',0,0),(1387,5225,'Joseph','dd964vet@yahoo.com','','98.144.6.122','2012-02-29 11:28:29','2012-02-29 19:28:29','\"I have a sense that God is far less interested in relevancy than He is in worship that is done in Spirit and in Truth.\"  Well said!  It seems to me that our various spiritualistic /ecclesiastic /theological approaches to knowing God are like various landscapes. The desert has a beauty that differs from the mountains. The mountains of Thailand are a different kind of beautiful than the Rockies. Singapore is not Rome, but they are both jewels.\n\nI am beginning to learn to appreciate each person\'s loving search for God it\'s own unique, flawed, illogical and erratic beauty. I have yet to encounter the tradition that does not hold the virtues of faith, hope and love dear. I only encounter a myriad of expressions of them. My expression of them is not going to \"fit\" anyone else because they are not me-- and I am not them.\n\nOn the other hand, there IS such a thing as being so open minded that your brains leak out through your ears.  ; )-',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.2','',0,0),(1391,4889,'Kristen','kristenrosser@hotmail.com','http://krwordgazer.blogspot.com','75.145.77.153','2012-03-01 11:37:50','2012-03-01 19:37:50','Thank you for this.  To me, the real questions are these:  Are we going to let God call women?  Or are we going to tell God He can\'t?  And are we going to let women whom He calls obey?  Or are we going to insist they obey a tradition-enmired interpretation of 2 or 3 verses of Scripture which, frankly, amount to tithing mint, dill and cumin while ignoring justice and mercy?',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1; Trident/4.0; GTB7.2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E)','',0,0),(1392,1258,'Raelene','raeleneroth@yahoo.com','','67.172.164.78','2012-03-01 19:46:29','2012-03-02 03:46:29','After reading the comments, I recognize I am definitely experiencing something far different that a good-size sample of other women who attend church.  I admit, I do not go every Sunday, but it is the most awesome experience every time I go, and I walk through those doors with the objective to get into a peacful space in my mind, body and soul, and simply thank God, and reflect on the past and how far He has led/loved me--through some of the most hell-on-earth experiences.  And I\'m so fully satisfied with just that.  After reading what it\'s *really* like behind-the-scene, I\'m shocked.  I\'m glad I\'ve never noticed a lack of female voice.  When I go, I am so distracted by the peace/release I feel inside, and how humble I can become in that space, I have truly never noticed that women do not have a voice.  I\'m not sure if that is a good thing, or not, but that\'s the reality of my experience.\r\n\r\nYou are an excellent writer, by the way.  I appreciate your transparency.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; GTB7.3; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; InfoPath.2; AskTbDIC3V5/5.9.1.14132)','',0,0),(1393,5225,'Marty Reimer','martyreimer78@yahoo.com','','41.238.116.128','2012-03-04 00:54:44','2012-03-04 08:54:44','hi there --\r\n\r\ni think you\'d really enjoy the book \"streams of living water\" by richard foster.  he talks about the christian church in history and the riches to mined from the different denominations\' history, theology and style, for the enrichment of all of us, rather than shooting at each other.  i\'ve been feasting on this for a while now.\r\n\r\nhttp://store.renovare.us/p-3-streams-of-living-water-softcover.aspx\r\n\r\nthis is a US website, but i\'d be willing to bet there\'s a version of it where you are...\r\ncheers!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',0,0),(1394,1258,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2012-03-07 04:55:40','2012-03-07 12:55:40','Raelene:  Thank you for talking about your experience in the church and for how you are growing spiritually - which is important and crucial.  \n\nThere are many, varied experiences for women to be sure and they are not all bad.  Mine, while being at time limiting and frustrating is not \"bad\" either but there are many ways in which women are limited from fully utilizing their gifts and talents in strict denominations where women cannot teach, or lead or spiritually guide.  The Church is coming along.  \n\nYou and others that read this review might be interested in reading a few other books. Rachel Held Evans is coming out with a book A year of Biblical Womanhood (and has a popular <a href=\"http://rachelheldevans.com/\" title=\"RHE\" rel=\"nofollow\">blog</a>) and another good one which I haven\'t finished is Unladylike by Pam Hodgeweed who also has a <a href=\"http://godmessedmeup.blogspot.com/\" title=\"PH\" rel=\"nofollow\">blog</a>. Of course the best organization to help you grow in your biblical understanding of these issues is Christians for Biblical Equality where you will find a plethora of incredible resources.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',1392,64),(1395,5321,'Michael Levitt','levitt.mike@gmail.com','http://levittmike.com','38.99.140.226','2012-03-07 08:18:47','2012-03-07 16:18:47','Society likes to lift people up, and kick them when they\'re down.  \r\n\r\nWe all have planks in our eyes.  We\'re all here to help us and support  each other, not beat up others.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.66 Safari/535.11','',0,0),(1396,5321,'Tony Roland','tr@pb-east.com','','68.59.255.148','2012-03-07 09:14:00','2012-03-07 17:14:00','Oh the depths of  the love of God, it is past comprehension. Jesus paid it all, and dealt the death blow once and for all for all sin for all time, that we might be free to know and serve God in a new and living way by the Spirit.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.2','',0,0),(1397,5321,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.27.139','2012-03-08 17:31:36','2012-03-09 01:31:36','Michael &amp; Tony, you both are dead on. Thanks for the comments.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.2','',0,12),(1398,5321,'Bruce H.','harp.bruce@yahoo.com','','74.193.4.215','2012-03-08 18:24:57','2012-03-09 02:24:57','Might I say that the fallen have experienced something no other has. Forgiveness from God. In addition to that, we are a living testimony to the rest of the believers to allow them to learn to forgive. Yes, I believe that will be our living teaching. No one can learn from teaching better than experience. We must take the blunt of the response and give the example of what it means to forgive. If we cannot forgive we cannot be forgiven. Let us never think it is okay to allow other Christians to put us down or condemn us. Living like Christ did, as having no father, is our destiny no matter what the world thinks. Our testimony has to be able to teach others the principle of forgiveness and, also. living among the forgiven.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.78 Safari/535.11','',0,0),(1401,2491,'Otto von Münchow','ottovon@online.no','http://munchow.wordpress.com','80.212.36.142','2012-03-10 04:57:33','2012-03-10 12:57:33','Thanks for telling the very personal experience of what is going on in Egypt',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.2','',0,0),(1402,2491,'Marilyn Gardner','marilyngardner5@gmail.com','http://communicatingacrossboundariesblog.com','65.96.165.44','2012-03-10 05:03:15','2012-03-10 13:03:15','Thank you so much for reading - I wrote that article before we visited at Christmas time. If you are interested I invite you to take a look at these two posts:\nhttp://communicatingacrossboundariesblog.com/2011/12/29/tahrir-square-walls-and-graffiti/ and\nhttp://communicatingacrossboundariesblog.com/2011/12/26/cairo-christmas-a-weary-world-rejoices/',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.56 Safari/535.11','',1401,96),(1403,5321,'Tony Roland','tr@pb-east.com','','68.59.255.148','2012-03-10 07:48:01','2012-03-10 15:48:01','I think the singling out of pastors and using the tern \"fallen\" has subtle if not profound implications. The separate clergy/laity situation leads to isolation for the shepherds, who were designed to live among the flock, in community. This free interaction and open living, helps to defeat darkness so it has a lesser chance of overtaking any of us.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.2','',0,0),(1404,4889,'Doreen Mannion','damannion@yahoo.com','','71.178.68.65','2012-03-12 23:10:08','2012-03-13 06:10:08','I highly recommend 2 recent books on the subject of women and the church: The Resignation of Eve by Jim Henderson and Unladylike by Pam Hogeweide.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; .NET4.0C; InfoPath.3; MS-RTC LM 8)','',0,0),(1405,4889,'Brooke Eikenberry','brooke.eikenberry@gmail.com','http://30somethingcrisis.tumblr.com/','65.190.94.26','2012-03-13 14:04:18','2012-03-13 21:04:18','Thanks for the book recommendations, Doreen!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/9B176','',1404,48),(1406,5296,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','209.49.70.10','2012-03-13 14:05:19','2012-03-13 21:05:19','Thanks Tony. To see with a pure heart what is already there.  May we live with such beautiful eyes.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.2','',1369,1),(1407,5296,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','209.49.70.10','2012-03-13 14:06:13','2012-03-13 21:06:13','Thank you for joining the conversation Jerry. That looks like a great book.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.2','',1380,1),(1408,5296,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','209.49.70.10','2012-03-13 14:07:25','2012-03-13 21:07:25','This was always my tension Stephen.  Behind the dichotomy was a good heart with good intentions.  But over time, I\'ve found that that instruction was ultimately not the deeper way of seeing things.  So I had to let it go to see the Kingdom. And I\'m glad I did.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.2','',1399,1),(1409,5465,'Buddy aka Beverly','Buddynet02@att.net','http://MarriageEquality','108.228.181.221','2012-03-16 10:10:26','2012-03-16 17:10:26','Wow, this old feminist feels absolutely enshrined.  Now if I could just get my niece to get it.  LOL!  My sister who passed away on 9-30-2011 had mentioned to me that her daughter and her friends would go \"women\'s lib?\"  They didn\'t get it, and I guess I thought maybe they didn\'t need to.  But about four years ago, my niece then 24, had put an article on her MySpace that really turned my head around.  She is one of those conspiracy theorists who see outrageous plots in just about everything and worries about the \"New World Order.\"  Anyway her article was about one of the Rockefellers telling an interviewer that he bankrolled the feminist movement with the whole idea in mind of breaking up American families to further his New World Order cause.  In the article, he claimed to have financed Ms Magazine and said that Gloria Steinem was a spy for his organization.\r\n\r\nWow!  After all my sister and I did to bring equality to my niece and her generation, this is what they thought about all that???  It caused me to write a very long essay and send it to her.  I have no idea what she made of it.  My niece was born toward the end of 1981, and she also loved shows like Designing Women.  And she had no idea of who Gloria Steinem was until that article she posted and my rebuttal to it.  She is still a conspiracy theorist and the \"only one\" who really knows what\'s going on, so I doubt she got much out of it.\r\n\r\nSo, Alise, your post was a wonderful gift to me and you made my day.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(1410,5465,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2012-03-17 05:11:03','2012-03-17 12:11:03','Thanks for posting the Erma quote in the first place. And thank you for being such a great role model to me. Hugs!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.79 Safari/535.11','',1409,30),(1411,5465,'Melody H Hanson (@melodyhhanson)','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2012-03-17 07:00:17','2012-03-17 14:00:17','I have to admit that I can\'t get my mind around what\'s going on now politically -- this war against women is so Out There and Obvious but it\'s like we\'ve been drugged somehow and there isn\'t enough outrage.  \r\n\r\nI know that it is a threat to women, even a war on women.  And I don\'t understand (naively) why in the world \r\na) they would want to do this to women and \r\nb) why women are seemingly putting up with it.  \r\nand c) what to do about it.  \r\n\r\nI know one thing, we MUST vote.  We only get one vote, but we need to use our collective power to vote.  That\'s one war that was fought valiantly for us even before the old feminists did what they did and we must ennoble ourselves and VOTE!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.79 Safari/535.11','',0,0),(1412,5465,'Peter Harrison','cheetah100@gmail.com','','60.234.9.102','2012-03-18 11:52:47','2012-03-18 18:52:47','Most of the issues above, while relating to women are really larger human rights issues. It is the imposition of religious dogma on the general population. As a white male without religion I too feel that people should be treated equally. The double standard we have for men and women should be crushed. Given our population issues we really need to encourage a responsible attitude to sexuality. We need to rise above unthinking obedience to ancient texts and reason for ourselves. My point I guess is that I would march with you. This isn\'t an issue which affects only women - the fallout of this fuzzy religious thinking is bad news for everyone.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux x86_64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',0,0),(1413,5416,'Ed','ed@inpulsearts.com','http://www.inpulsearts.com/Word','68.108.128.243','2012-03-19 23:53:52','2012-03-20 06:53:52','I once read where Elvis Presley once paraphrased Matthew 19:23-24 as \"a camel\'s ass through the eye of a needle\". Classic humor.\r\n\r\nThanks for writing this. Yeah, we have to watch Jesus and not make Him really humorous, but then again, if it helps people understand, then we should by all means go for it. Just go easy, as He did :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; Trident/5.0; BOIE9;ENUS)','',0,0),(1414,5409,'Anon','anon@anon.com','','64.196.98.12','2012-03-21 08:55:49','2012-03-21 15:55:49','Thank you for this. So true of where we are right now.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',0,0),(1415,5465,'Buddy aka Beverly','Buddynet02@att.net','http://MarriageEquality','99.36.193.177','2012-03-21 11:54:45','2012-03-21 18:54:45','I was hoping to see a much larger response to Alise\'s article.  I\'ve always said that you can tell the degree of civilization of a group of people just by how women are viewed and treated.  I never got why it is always the women that need to be controlled.  But since we have wombs, and population could not continue without us, maybe that\'s why.\r\n\r\nMy husband once asked me about the veils in eastern countries.  He said jokingly, \"Are their women so ugly that they have to hide their faces?\"  I explained to him that women are seen as the temptress, that even a glimpse of wrist is considered so dangerous to a man\'s ability to control his impulses that she must be fully covered.  And when a woman is raped, it is because she tempted the poor innocent man and is often executed.\r\n\r\nNot long ago, I was watching my favorite true crime channel and they aired an \"honor killing\" segment.  This guy killed his sister because she was raped and that shamed the family, hurt them so much that he had to kill her for the good of the family.  He got three years for that.  When asked if he felt his punishment was just, he waid absolutely not, he did nothing wrong.  He compared a woman to a glass or a dish and said when it\'s broken, it\'s useless, same for a woman.\r\n\r\nI believe that there\'s more behind the \"War on Women\" than meets the eye, and it all goes along with other things I see happening.  If poor women don\'t have easy access to birth control, they will have more children.  Going to war with Iran seems to be popular among the GOP.  The corporations that moved their factories overseas because they didn\'t want to pay a living wage to Americans now want to come back to the states because they see their profit margins slipping, but they have gotten spoiled paying slave wages and they do not want to pay more over here. Otherwise moving back to save shipping costs wouldn\'t even make sense profit wise.  At the same time, there is a push to abolish unions, and some are even suggesting abolishing minimum wage.  So, if more poor children are born, there will be more young people to fight their wars and to work in their factories for pennies.  Mark my words, it\'s not just a \"war on women\" but a war on poor people and they want more to use and exploit.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(1416,5465,'Buddy aka Beverly','Buddynet02@att.net','http://MarriageEquality','99.36.193.177','2012-03-21 17:53:10','2012-03-22 00:53:10','This is what I really wanted to say:\r\n\r\nSo Why the Women?\r\n\r\nI grew up in church and Sunday School, Baptist to be exact, and to me it always seemed like more of a “women’s’ thing.  The pastor was a man of course, and so were the deacons, but women filled the pews, women came to the extra services, and women were always working on charity fund raisers, making quilts to be auctioned off or having bake sales.  My grandmothers and mother were always very involved, my dad did not attend, and most dads and grandfathers attended on Sunday only and even sporadically at that.\r\n\r\nWhen I married, my husband and his family were not religious, so church was never a part of our life together.  When I reached my early 20’s, I began calling myself an atheist and later amended it to agnostic because I didn’t want to seem so egotistical as to say that I knew God didn’t exist.  At the same time, I became a feminist.  Feminism was probably a natural for me, as my father was abusive and my uncle who helped my mom after she divorced my father thought he owned us and he was abusive.  All around me I saw women trying to hold it together while working around men who made life rough on them.\r\n\r\nWhen I reached my early 30’s, I began to realize that I was just fooling myself, that I really did acknowledge God’s existence and that in times of trouble or fear, I called out to him/her/it without even realizing I was doing so.  So I began to pray in private, and out of curiosity, I picked up the Bible and began to read for myself for the very first time in my life.  I found from my own exploration that often verses that people had used to hurt or control me were taken out of context and had nothing to do with the point that scripture was making.  So I became a “closet Christian” and didn’t tell anyone, not even my husband.\r\n\r\nCancer brought me back to church.  I had the aggressive/invasive kind and was going through experimental chemotherapy and wanted to feel God’s love and fellowship with other Christians. I told my husband I wanted to start attending church.  He agreed and we chose a Baptist because both of us had attended church, Sunday and/or vacation Bible school in that denomination growing up.\r\n\r\nWe didn’t realize it, but we were actually attending a Bill Gothard influenced church, and many now believe that those who are under that influence are actually in a cult of sorts.  They were very strict on the women there, and no matter what else they were preaching about, “wives submit” was always stressed and reiterated throughout the sermon.  They didn’t believe that women should work, but acknowledged that sometimes it couldn’t be helped.  They didn’t want women wearing pants or cutting their hair.  They preached against birth control and advised couples to “Let God Plan the Family.”  Even abstinence was not advisable, as they often quoted scripture about not denying each other.  They preferred children to go to their school, but home schooling was also acceptable.  They believed in creation only and that the earth was only six thousand years old.  They did tell men to love their wives, but the rules were mostly for women.  Once I realized that it was a Gothard based church and that Gothardism was basically a cult we got the hell out of there.\r\n\r\nBut at the time, I still couldn’t help but wonder why the women?  For whatever reason, women always seemed to be more spiritual, and usually more responsible.  They held things together while men deserted families or beat the wife and kids.  There was always the “boys will be boys” attitude when I was growing up and that church just seemed to reinforce that.\r\n\r\nThen I began hearing about the War on Women in Afghanistan.  This was at least a couple of years before 9/11.  The Taliban patrolled the streets to make sure that no woman was out un-escorted by a male relative and that she was covered properly.  If a woman had white socks on instead of black, she could be beaten or even killed.  All houses with females inside had their windows blackened.  The Taliban often raided homes where they suspected female children were being home schooled and if they found such activity taking place, they raped the women and girls and then killed them for being whores.  I even read of one such occasion where they shot the men and male children and threw their bodies in a ditch, but the female’s plight was worse, as they threw them in alive and buried them.  I saw a woman being executed on TV for wearing makeup.\r\n\r\nFor this reason, I have always felt angry whenever I saw a woman wearing a veil.  I am working to change my prejudice on that as I now know that many women, even in this country, and some of them are women who have converted to Islam, want to wear the veil.  I assume it is for the same reason that women fill our churches, no matter what it costs them, because the spirituality they seek is worth it to them.\r\n\r\nBut again, I wonder what’s going on today with the GOP’s War on Women.  They seem to be trying to set us back 50 years.  It’s like the strides we made never happened.  And I think the answer must be that it’s because we have wombs.  We bring life into the world.  Yes, men fertilize the eggs, but women carry the child in their wombs for nine months, and for the most part nurture the child for the greatest part of their non-adult lives.  Women have breasts, and while tantalizing to men, they can sustain life as well.  Without women bearing children, the population would cease to exist, unless it they perfected a way to grow fetuses in a test tube and incubate them without the help of a woman’s womb and have them turn out okay with no horrible flaws to be unleashed on the world.  So, men want to control the sex that produces and sustains life because their own existence and the preservation of the species is all wrapped up in the fertility of women.  And I believe they have found even more ulterior motives in this century.\r\n\r\nI ascertain that there is more going on than meets the eye with the so-called War on Women.  I see it as a war on poor people.  The corporations moved their industries overseas because they did not want to pay a living wage to American workers.  Now, they want to bring some of the factories back to the states. Why?  Because the cost of shipping is causing them to notice a slightly lower profit margin.  At the same time, the One Percent is trying to abolish unions and many are suggesting also eliminating minimum wage.  Now we are hearing the faint echo of yet another war.  The GOP candidates want to start something up in Iran.  With all this in mind, I think that by making birth control not readily available for poor women, they are investing in their future vision of lots of poor youth to fight their wars and work for pennies in their factories.  The control of women’s wombs to enrich their own future is what this is all about.  Now if the good women of the church could only get wise to this, we could possibly see some real power.  But with the brainwashing of Faux News, the high jacking of the Christian religion, the prosperity doctrine that filled the mainstream Christian churches in the 1980’s along with Ayn Rand’s philosophy becoming an icon for a Christian based life, not only is selfishness acceptable, but considered a godly and righteous way to be.  The so-called Christian Right support the GOP and believe that it is the American way.  They embrace the “trickle down” theory because they worship the rich and tell themselves that they too can be rich if they keep the current rich One Percent in Power.  So even though it appears to be all about the women, it’s really all a part of the Class War.  I want to believe that women will be wiser this time around, that they will be able to sort the wheat from the chaff, no matter how religious they are, but it remains to be seen.  I implore everyone to pray to whatever power they believe in, or think good thoughts, light candles and chant, any and all you do to invoke the power to let the good side win this one.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(1417,5465,'Phyl','publicreggie@yahoo.ca','','99.231.74.233','2012-03-22 09:45:34','2012-03-22 16:45:34','Thank you.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.79 Safari/535.11','',0,0),(1418,5435,'Pam Hogeweide','pamhogeweide@gmail.com','','71.236.152.241','2012-03-22 09:52:14','2012-03-22 16:52:14','great post chloe. \r\n\r\n\"the cult of christian ministry,\" my fave line.  \r\n\r\nthe cult of christian ministry also sets christians up to despise ordinary living, as if we\'ve missed the higher call or failed at being truly great for God.  I think your post here is prophetic and a very needed message for the church today.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.79 Safari/535.11','',0,5),(1419,5435,'Charlene','kcravensbergen@yahoo.ca','','174.7.78.23','2012-03-22 13:06:11','2012-03-22 20:06:11','Thank you Chloe a fantastic post and you write so well.  I needed that.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',0,0),(1420,5435,'Steve Walton','s.walton@lst.ac.uk','','86.136.145.56','2012-03-22 15:51:22','2012-03-22 22:51:22','Good stuff Chloe! You\'re hitting the nail on the head here: the cult of \'bigger is better\' is thoroughly dangerous in Christian circles. I\'ve shared this in fb.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.54.16 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.4 Safari/534.54.16','',0,0),(1421,5435,'Sarah B','wtwsarahb@yahoo.com','','78.147.153.69','2012-03-22 16:02:18','2012-03-22 23:02:18','Chloe, this was fab. I militate against the pedestalling of preachers and speakers (and even, these days, worship leaders). Yet the whispered temptation is there for us all. I\'m still in training, but am minister of a church of less than 20. I really love them and know it is right for me to be here. But in the work I used to do, I was regularly published, including two co-authored short books. It\'s easy to listen to the whisper that my material is as good as that of \'well known\' speakers, to dream of \'glory\' when it is all a gift. It doesn\'t help if others push you (college want me to publish something) even if it was good work. Good for you, girl. Stick to your guns. But if God does grow your ministry beyond your current small church, remember that too is His gift. Mighty oaks really do grow from tiny acorns. Be blessed and be a blessing.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(1422,5435,'Chloe Lynch','theartofsteering@gmail.com','http://theartofsteering.wordpress.com','94.193.36.193','2012-03-23 04:07:00','2012-03-23 11:07:00','Thanks, Pam...I think it\'s most prophetic for me: I can slip up so quickly on this one!  appreciate the feedback, by the way.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9B176 Safari/7534.48.3','',1418,119),(1424,5435,'Chloe Lynch','theartofsteering@gmail.com','http://theartofsteering.wordpress.com','94.193.36.193','2012-03-23 04:08:09','2012-03-23 11:08:09','Thanks, Charlene, as ever for your encouragement!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9B176 Safari/7534.48.3','',1419,119),(1425,5435,'Chloe Lynch','theartofsteering@gmail.com','http://theartofsteering.wordpress.com','94.193.36.193','2012-03-23 04:10:18','2012-03-23 11:10:18','Thanks, Steve; I saw the share too...very kind of you!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9B176 Safari/7534.48.3','',1420,119),(1426,5435,'Chloe Lynch','theartofsteering@gmail.com','http://theartofsteering.wordpress.com','94.193.36.193','2012-03-23 04:16:51','2012-03-23 11:16:51','Thank you, Sarah; may God bless you as you train and serve because I know from experience how hard it is to manage to do both!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9B176 Safari/7534.48.3','',1421,119),(1427,5465,'Jenn','2punkin@gmail.com','','199.187.247.114','2012-03-23 07:38:05','2012-03-23 14:38:05','Not all of us in the younger generation don\'t or didn\'t get it. Born in 1981 most people would think I have never \"really\" been faced wth discrimination based on my gender. Thankfully, because of the women that preceeded, me it can hardly compare to that which they faced, but it never did go away completely. It was my mother who told me of the inequality in her day.  And thankfully it was also she who was sitting beside me when I received the most blatant sexist putdown ever. I was visiting colleges and while meeting with a college counselor I was told by him that college really wasn\'t that vital for me because I was pretty enough to just marry well.\r\n\r\nSo, not all of us didn\'t get it. Those early women are my role models. I\'ve known them. I\'ve studied them. And as for your niece, I\'m happy to fight for her rights even if she doesn\'t care or believe they need to be fought for.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; InfoPath.2; Tablet PC 2.0; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)','',1409,0),(1428,5435,'B j A','Chandi@horseheart.net','','77.99.76.174','2012-03-23 14:21:23','2012-03-23 21:21:23','A friend who was a former student at LBC sent this article to me....I found it quite inspiring.\r\nWhat matters most, as this piece suggests is the depth...isn\'t it?  Without roots we can end up like Christmas trees.   Christianity is sadly plagued by the cult of celebrity.  Most preachers, workers in ministry hunt for platforms - that seems to be the norm.\r\nThis article counteracts that trend and offers another way of looking at it - \"The more excellent way\".\r\nKeep up the good work!\r\n BjA',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.83 Safari/535.11','',0,0),(1429,5435,'Chloe Lynch','theartofsteering@gmail.com','http://theartofsteering.wordpress.com','94.193.36.193','2012-03-23 15:01:45','2012-03-23 22:01:45','Thank you!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9B176 Safari/7534.48.3','',1428,119),(1430,5472,'Caleb McNary','caleb@calebmcnary.com','http://calebmcnary.com','24.255.159.77','2012-03-24 10:39:15','2012-03-24 17:39:15','In tears. Ken, thank you so much for that post, it was incredible.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_3) AppleWebKit/534.54.16 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.4 Safari/534.54.16','',0,0),(1431,5472,'Ken Hagerman','kensebay1@yahoo.com','http://www.ramblingbarba.com','190.104.162.218','2012-03-24 11:56:56','2012-03-24 18:56:56','My pleasure. It was and continues to be a learning experience being in the mission field.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.79 Safari/535.11','',1430,154),(1432,5472,'Buzz','bignoseduglyguy@gmail.com','http://www.bignoseduglyguy.com','122.57.207.215','2012-03-24 12:32:00','2012-03-24 19:32:00','Reading this during some quiet time early on this wet Sunday morning here in New Zealand after a Saturday evening of struggles and doubts about how I relate to my family as a husband and father. I am struck by how much of my own perception and image of myself is fashioned by how I believe others see me and what they think of me.  So, in response to you last questions, perhaps I have and probably not often enough.  Thanks you for the timely post.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.83 Safari/535.11','',0,0),(1433,5472,'Tor Constantino','torconbooks@gmail.com','http://www.thedailyretort.com','71.178.217.103','2012-03-24 13:12:36','2012-03-24 20:12:36','Wow buddy, this is one of the most powerful and shocking revelations I\'ve ever had. Thank you for tipping my world on edge!  Blessings to you and your family!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.27) Gecko/20120216 Firefox/3.6.27','',0,153),(1434,5472,'Ken Hagerman','kensebay1@yahoo.com','http://www.ramblingbarba.com','190.104.162.215','2012-03-24 14:41:10','2012-03-24 21:41:10','Thanks for reading. New Zealand huh, that\'s a couple of miles from me. Honestly, the comment you wrote I could have written it myself today. Keep looking in the mirror and listening to Him. I need to do that,too.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.79 Safari/535.11','',1432,154),(1435,5472,'Ken Hagerman','kensebay1@yahoo.com','http://www.ramblingbarba.com','190.104.162.215','2012-03-24 14:44:08','2012-03-24 21:44:08','Thanks my friend. My world is still tipping by what He is doing with me daily.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.79 Safari/535.11','',1433,154),(1436,5472,'Eileen','eknowles@embarqmail.com','http://www:eileenknowles.com','71.55.67.149','2012-03-24 15:09:35','2012-03-24 22:09:35','Ken,  \r\n\r\nThis is beautiful story. Thank you!   It took me back to the trips I\'ve made to the Dominican Rep on mission trips.  We had several team members who were photographers.  Each year we go to a very remote and poor area and hand out rice and beans.   This past year we were able to hand deliver pictures of many of the kids/families we took pictures of the year before.  They were thrilled!   What a great gift!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.2','',0,0),(1437,5472,'Ken Hagerman(The Barba)','kensebay1@yahoo.com','http://www.ramblingbarba.com','190.104.162.197','2012-03-24 16:28:13','2012-03-24 23:28:13','That\'s great. The photos are such a good gift. The mothers especially cherish them.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.79 Safari/535.11','',1436,0),(1438,5472,'Stephen Haggerty','stephenhaggerty@gmail.com','http://thebeardedidealist.com','74.60.29.216','2012-03-25 15:59:44','2012-03-25 22:59:44','First off- awesome idea about the pictures, Ken. That\'s a great idea to show love to these people you were called to. I\'m diggin\' it.\r\nSecond, amazing story, and fantastic analogy. It moves me a great deal to think about this, that while I\'m calling myself \"failure,\" \"poser\", and \"not good enough\", Jesus is calling me \"forgiven,\" \"approved\", and \"child of God.\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5','',0,0),(1439,5472,'Ken Hagerman','kensebay1@yahoo.com','http://www.ramblingbarba.com','190.104.162.201','2012-03-25 19:39:27','2012-03-26 02:39:27','That is exactly what He is saying if we will just trust Him at His word. Thanks for reading.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.79 Safari/535.11','',1438,154),(1440,5505,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','108.201.189.13','2012-03-27 14:49:38','2012-03-27 14:49:38','Chaz, is this post original content or a quote from Khalil?',0,'editorial-comment','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','editorial-comment',0,0),(1441,5530,'Sarah B','wtwsarahb@yahoo.com','','92.26.170.41','2012-03-28 01:06:39','2012-03-28 08:06:39','Earlier in the year, during a sermon series on God, one week focussed on \'our suffering God\' and we explored his own suffering and how he walks with us in our suffering.\r\nI have found the hijacking of Lent making it a time \'to give something up\' very unhelpful. I have often found, too, that Christians jump straight from the pain of Good Friday to the joy of Resurrection Sunday without the suspense, pain, anguish, confusion and disappointment of Holy Saturday. As church we seem incapable of spending even a day in a state some people live in for weeks, months or years. What do we have to offer them? \r\nWe must learn not to stick a plaster over our wounds, disappointments and pain. In a fallen world, stuff happens; stuff we would not invite or desire. And God is with us in all of it, but we don\'t seem to be able to say or acknowledge that. \r\nHelpful songs for such times might include \'we have sung our songs of victory\' and music from the Northumbria Community like \'kyrie eleison\' and \'broken I stand\'. Maybe it would be good to ask Spring Harvest, New Wine and other big conferences to have at least a \'Lament strand\' within their programme, or to really bite the bullet and have a whole conference focussed on the times of sorrow, suffering and mourning, rather than of celebration, cheer and rejoicing?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(1442,5652,'Jake','wjkampe@comcast.net','','64.134.6.245','2012-03-28 08:21:00','2012-03-28 15:21:00','For those who declare, \"I AM TRAYVON\", when they are more like GEORGE, we pray to the Lord.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',0,0),(1443,5652,'Buddy aka Beverly','Buddynet02@att.net','http://MarriageEquality','108.228.179.142','2012-03-28 09:17:54','2012-03-28 16:17:54','As a white middle-aged female, I cannot claim what it feels like to be blac., However, my heart has broken many times for my half black nephew, son of my sister (may she RIP).  \r\n\r\nNathan is a grown man now with a son of his own, but growing up looking African American with a white mother and little sister was not easy for him.  He was called \"zebra\" in school by kids who didn\'t like him, yet he was well liked by most because he is a wonderful person, handsome, kind and nice to be around.  \r\n\r\nI can remember an indicent where he was walking home from his girlfriend\'s house, not doing anything wrong, and he was stopped by police, slammed up against a cop car, spread eagled and searched.  He was only 16 at the time.  What that did to his psyche, I\'ll never know because he does not talk about things like that.  He is a good person with a good heart, and he goes through life with a good attitude.  But I do know how much it has hurt me when I have been treated badly and unfairly.  What happened to Trayvon hit me in a mighty and personal way.\r\n\r\nWe need to learn to really do what Jesus told us to do, and that is to love one another, and that includes minorities, gays, poor people and people who have different beliefs than we do.  I hope the Christian community will start showing a loving example and change the image many have of Christianity now due to many things the so-called Christian right do and say.  And that\'s my two cents worth.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(1444,5652,'Travis Mamone','travismamone83@gmail.com','http://www.travismamone.net','64.26.72.143','2012-03-28 09:47:06','2012-03-28 16:47:06','Yes, thank you Beverly!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.28) Gecko/20120306 Firefox/3.6.28','',1443,46),(1445,5530,'Jon Rogers','j.c.rogers@gmail.com','http://jonrogers.co.uk','88.111.198.207','2012-03-28 11:07:32','2012-03-28 18:07:32','Practically, do you have any suggestions on what that Holy Saturday service would sound and look like? Fancy writing us an article on it?!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Ubuntu/11.10 Chromium/17.0.963.79 Chrome/17.0.963.79 Safari/535.11','',1441,110),(1446,5530,'Sarah B','wtwsarahb@yahoo.com','','2.96.235.19','2012-03-28 13:08:26','2012-03-28 20:08:26','Happy to have a go...\r\nprobably don\'t have time until Saturday, if I\'m honest.\r\nWould you like an outline, with suggestions for materials - music, images, actions, poems, readings, or a more descriptive thing about tone and/or feel?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',1445,0),(1447,5530,'Jon Rogers','j.c.rogers@gmail.com','http://jonrogers.co.uk','88.111.198.207','2012-03-29 01:56:47','2012-03-29 08:56:47','Both! I think it would be a great thing to write now (and re-publish during lent 2013!) You can fill in the form on this page: http://provoketive.com/writing-for-provoketive/ to become a regular author or we could work out the best way to put up a guest post if you only want to do a one-off.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Ubuntu/11.10 Chromium/17.0.963.79 Chrome/17.0.963.79 Safari/535.11','',1446,110),(1467,5966,'Derek Penwell','dlpenw01@gmail.com','http://drdlpenwell.wordpress.com','74.134.93.99','2012-04-14 17:32:19','2012-04-15 00:32:19','Very nicely said, Jonathan!  So very nicely said.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_3) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.142 Safari/535.19','',0,0),(1448,3023,'Cran Apple','firetos@gmail.com','','75.70.167.114','2012-03-30 13:09:10','2012-03-30 20:09:10','I know I\'m commenting way late, but I\'ll do it anyway. I don\'t buy the premise of your statement. You somehow think that a marriage is about sex. It isn\'t. It\'s the symbolism of a relationship between two people. Some married couples have virtually no sex at all. I don\'t know why you would think this.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.83 Safari/535.11','',0,0),(1449,3023,'Cran Apple','firetos@gmail.com','','75.70.167.114','2012-03-30 13:13:45','2012-03-30 20:13:45','Scratch that last comment. I had an oblivious moron moment there... You are exactly saying that marriage is not about sex. I am so silly.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.83 Safari/535.11','',0,0),(1450,5480,'Daisy Rain Martin','daisydaisychick@yahoo.com','','24.117.149.238','2012-03-30 17:02:09','2012-03-31 00:02:09','Thank you for writing this. I didn\'t report my sexual abuse as a child, but I\'m about to come out with a book that spills it all. It\'s my story to tell. And if my mother and her husband didn\'t want me to spill it, they should have given me a better story to tell. The book is called, \"Juxtaposed\" and it is coming out in the fall. www.daisyrainmartin.com\r\n\r\nThe best, best, BEST of luck and love to you, my friend,\r\n\r\nDaisy Rain Martin',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_8) AppleWebKit/534.50.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.6 Safari/533.22.3','',0,0),(1451,3023,'wiskers','dannywickham@yahoo.es','','85.57.14.15','2012-03-31 14:34:43','2012-03-31 21:34:43','Well Cran Apple, glad you have joined in. Marriage is not exclusively about sex and you aren´t wrong in pointing this out but it is the norm in most that a man and a woman do have sex as the most intimate physical expression of their mutual love and pleasure in each other. It is definitely not the be-all-and end all of the relationship. Mutual trust and a common aim would be paramount for me. Companionship and mutual assistance too. \r\n\r\nAnything you want to define otherwise would be a very good friendship, perhaps? I know quite a few (mainly female) couples who live together for company´s sake and I don´t see this as wrong. But when a man and a woman wish to live together for the rest of their lives and build a family then sex has to happen and that is the real definition of marriage in every culture, not just the christian culture which we know best. But I´d love to hear other submits on this. Thanks Cran.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.142 Safari/535.19','',0,0),(1452,5480,'ChristianNoob','franko@juno.com','http://christiannoob.wordpress.com/','198.83.125.200','2012-04-02 06:13:10','2012-04-02 13:13:10','Thank you for your feedback. I\'m glad this article has made someone take two minutes to share her story -- one of millions of stories.\r\n\r\nI\'ve seen too many lives destroyed by sexual abuse. I\'m including three examples.\r\n\r\n<em>BL</em> (initials only for privacy) was abused as a young child (about 5), prompting her start having sex like crazy at age 14 having nothing (no virginity) to lose and then sleeping with man after man in a string of bad relationships (last count over 120). Somehow she found a good man who now is her husband. Another example is <em>MC</em> who was raped for hanging out with the wrong crowd at 14. Her life has been a mess since often sabotaging her own relationships. One of the most painful examples that I know of is my friend <em>NH</em> who was raped in a part by some stranger holding a knife to her neck. At least she\'s had a \"normal\" sexual life and now is happily married.\r\n\r\nIn all these cases and many more that I know of, their families and partners don\'t know anything about the abuse or the abuser. Perhaps male survivors suffer most staying silent often taking their stories to their graves -- for fear of ridicule or been called gay or, worse yet, becoming an abuser too. Needless to say (type), religion much too often doesn\'t help as it sees victims as dirty and at times even accuse the victim.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',1450,134),(1453,5435,'Ashley O.','a-ormon@proverbsnwisdom.com','http://proverbsnwisdom.com','24.184.193.224','2012-04-02 09:25:02','2012-04-02 16:25:02','Superb, Chloe. Well-penned. \r\n\r\nWhen I first started ministry it wasn\'t about how many people on average were ministered to nor was it about how big my platform was. And although it\'s only natural for us to desire growth, I think sometimes we confuse \"growth\" with creating a bigger platform rather than spiritual growth in the Lord. Instead of being so heavily concerned about the number of people behind us (or with us) we should be concerned about the impact we have on the few surrounding us.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.83 Safari/535.11','',0,0),(1454,5435,'Chloe Lynch','theartofsteering@gmail.com','http://theartofsteering.wordpress.com','94.193.36.193','2012-04-02 09:43:30','2012-04-02 16:43:30','Thanks for your feedback, Ashley; I appreciate you taking the time!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.83 Safari/535.11','',1453,119),(1455,5739,'Buddy aka Beverly','Buddynet02@att.net','http://MarriageEquality','99.36.195.33','2012-04-04 08:51:15','2012-04-04 15:51:15','The first time I ever heard of this procedure was from a book I read in the late 1960s called \"Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Sex But was Afraid to Ask.\"  I was a newlywed at the time and had thought it was some ancient custom in Africa and no longer practiced.  I couldn\'t imagine such cruelty.  I began hearing about it again in later years when a beautiful African-American model came out and said this had been done to her.  I have since heard that in some cultures, they not only mutilate the girl, but they stitch her back up, leaving only a tiny area for her to urinate out of.  On the wedding night, the husband has to open her with a knife before taking his husbandly rights.  And some of the cultures restitch her after childbirth.  The reasoning behind this is that sex brings only pain, never pleasure to a female.  How barbaric is this and why does it still exist???  When will womenkind ever be seen as fully human and treated humanely an all levels???',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(1456,5739,'ChristianNoob','franko@juno.com','http://christiannoob.wordpress.com/','198.83.125.200','2012-04-04 09:23:52','2012-04-04 16:23:52','I knew it was practiced in parts of Africa, but not in Muslim-controlled nations in the Middle East. In Egypt especially the government checks for hymen to be intact (virginity tests) and now want to make female circumcision obligatory. When I saw <a href=\"http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Type_IV_circumcision.jpg\" title=\"Type_IV_circumcision.jpg\" rel=\"nofollow\">this picture</a> (<em>not safe for children</em>), I felt all kind of pains even though I don\'t have female parts.\r\n\r\nEgyptian journalist <a href=\"http://twitter.com/monaeltahawy\" title=\"Mona Eltahawy\" rel=\"nofollow\">Mona Eltahawy</a> has been very vocal about this. I hope she writes a response to this post, hopefully giving us more information.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',1455,134),(1457,5530,'Sarah B','wtwsarahb@yahoo.com','','78.147.172.76','2012-04-04 13:10:42','2012-04-04 20:10:42','hi Jon.\r\nI\'ve done a piece, but don\'t really have time to be a regular blogger - ministerial training and leading a congregation over-fill my time already - so what\'s the best way to send it as a one-off responsive piece for now? It\'s just under 900 words, but includes two service outlines as well as the thought provoking article!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',1447,0),(1458,5754,'Crystal Lewis','crystalslewis@gmail.com','http://crystalstmarielewis.wordpress.com','71.4.209.201','2012-04-05 13:42:14','2012-04-05 20:42:14','Beautifully-said Travis. Thank you for sharing this heartfelt and deeply personal post. I agree that the concept of God suffering \"with\" me, rather than standing on the sidelines demanding that I be \"strong\" is extremely powerful. Also, very thought-provoking. Good stuff here. :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',0,0),(1459,5776,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','','65.13.98.197','2012-04-06 19:42:14','2012-04-07 02:42:14','Robyn, I totally relate.  I\'m an Episcopalian who sings Bach at 9:00 AM on Sunday mornings, drawn into the sacred mystery by the beauty of the liturgy.  Then I dash to the other side of town and rock\'n\'roll with my very contemporary United Methodist Church-in-disguise at 11:00 AM.  I relate to both, and so belong to both.\r\n\r\nLast night I was a part of Holy Communion\'s Maunday Thursday service, and was transfixed (as always) by the stripping of the altar.  I cry through the whole thing, drawn into the night Jesus humbled himself to suffer such agony and shame.\r\n\r\nTonight I was drawn into the events of Good Friday as if I was there by powerful ritual and Scripture readings at Heartsong Church.  I couldn\'t even speak as we left the church.\r\n\r\nHoly Week is hard, but it needs to be.  It goes without saying that it was hard for Jesus.  But when I truly allow myself to personalize the events of that week, I face the perils of my own humanity.  When have I abandoned Jesus, or lied about our relationship?  When have I hurt so bad that I thought I couldn\'t stand it?  When have I cursed God, then wished with all my heart that He was there for me?  \r\n\r\nIf I never hurt this badly, I would have no need for God\'s healing.  If I never doubted, I could never experience faith.  If Holy Week wasn\'t hard, I wouldn\'t care about it and the crucial meaning it has for my life.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(1460,5776,'reverendrobyn','theologybird@gmail.com','http://theologybird.wordpress.com','71.32.51.14','2012-04-06 20:22:37','2012-04-07 03:22:37','Joy,\r\nI feel the same way about the stripping of the altar.\r\nAnd I agree that Holy Week being hard isn\'t bad.  When we lean into that tension I think that we are pulled into questions like those you pose.\r\nHoly Week is hard.  Hard is not the same thing as bad.\r\nRobyn',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.142 Safari/535.19','',1459,139),(1461,5321,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.2.199','2012-04-07 16:37:28','2012-04-07 23:37:28','You\'re right Tony. I was speaking with a pastor a few days ago who had committed adultery. It had been a long time ago. Even in that long period of time, he is still an object of shame and derision in his community. He feels that God still wants to use him in some way, but he is not given any chance by the churches around him. At times, he is faced with not being allowed to be a productive church member because of his past.\r\n\r\nUnfortunately, the search term \"fallen pastor\" is a common way to refer to those who have committed a sin. That\'s not the way God looks at us, He has set us free from our sin. We are clean and have been washed from all unrighteousness. But that\'s not the way the world sees us. We will always have to deal with the consequences of our actions.\r\n\r\nI always tell pastors to find a community of faith that will love them, encourage their gifts and allow them to work freely in the capacity God allows them. It is a difficult thing to find in this world. But I thank God that there are churches like that out there, but they are often far and few between.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',1403,12),(1462,5321,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.2.199','2012-04-07 16:39:16','2012-04-07 23:39:16','Bruce, thanks for the comment. I\'ve told fallen ministers before that we probably are better preachers now than we were before our adultery. We now know the grace of God and His forgiveness like we never knew before.\r\n\r\nIn the times I have been able to preach, God\'s love and forgiveness have come to the forefront like never before. It\'s been amazing the response I\'ve gotten.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',1398,12),(1463,5465,'Sarah','sarahboote@hotmail.com','','108.2.141.102','2012-04-10 13:30:01','2012-04-10 20:30:01','yes, thank you. Your response should go out to a wider audience.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_8) AppleWebKit/534.50.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.6 Safari/533.22.3','',1416,0),(1464,5881,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','','65.13.98.197','2012-04-10 13:52:26','2012-04-10 20:52:26','I totally agree with you, Ray.  For me, I find the reading of the gospel accounts combined with visual symbolism very moving and much more realistic that any reinactment play.  Churches do  this in a variety of ways, but when the story comes to life in our imaginations, God makes it personal for us.\r\n\r\nIn my church, the Maunday Thursday and Good Friday services make the events from the Last Supper through the death of Christ come alive for me.  On Thursday, we read how Jesus washed his disciples\' feet, then we wash each others\' feet.  We are told what Jesus said about the bread and wine, then share Communion together.  The altar and altar area are stripped of everything except for the cross which is covered in black, while the lights dim as we sing \"Stay with me, remain here with me. Watch and pray.\"  These rituals enable me to \"see\" what happened that night.\r\n\r\nOn Good Friday, the Biblical account is read of Jesus\' trial and suffering, ending in death.  Meditations are intertwined, like when Peter denies Christ, we are asked, \"When have you denied knowing Jesus?\"  Gradually the lights are dimmed and we leave in silence.\r\n\r\nChurches observe Holy Week in a variety of ways.  But, for me, the scenes God shows me in my mind make the story real and very personal.  A reinactment is neither real nor does it make the story of those three days personal.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(1468,5966,'tom lynch','lynch.gerard@yahoo.com','','69.171.160.0','2012-04-15 17:35:45','2012-04-16 00:35:45','So much can be said, on various tangents or levels, about this fine piece you wrote, Jonathan.  Where I went was “the bondage to self,”  my beloved lockup for far too many years (but in reality, just enough).\r\n\r\nWhen I was in Hospice training during the early 90s, I adopted the belief of having no expectations of others.  This seemed a highly evolved stance to take and appeared to suit as well the principles of AA. With seven years of sobriety under my belt, I at least had the intellectual capacity to see where expectations of justice, fairness, or anything else placed on others was the root of much inner conflict and outer strife.  “turning the other cheek” was for people who had such a profound understanding of the esoteric ways of spirit.  Too funny.\r\n\r\nIt also became clear at that time that more harmed was been done by those who took offense than those who gave it, at least as I reviewed my life and made a cursory scan at the world\'s history.  Such noble thinking had me feel, at that time, just a few watts short of eclat enlightenment; a few more amps of such insights and I was there.\r\n\r\nAt the last school lunch before Spring Break, a friend was regaling our group about her expectations for her return to Ojai, what a great reception and good time she would have.  “Poor dear,” I thought, “so spiritually primitive.” (Horrors of horrors, my actual reflection.)  \r\n\r\nI listened only for a break, just biding my time til when I could take her aside and warn her of her pending folly.  Then grace tapped me on the shoulder and I turned, looking deep into my soul: the light was on in the basement.  What I saw shocked and saddened me.  \r\n\r\nI had been hiding behind this blind of “no expectations” because of the fear and conviction that I was both unlovable and unacceptable; there could never be such an exuberant welcome for the likes of me.  I was merely tolerated, as long as I stayed in my lowly place and made no waves.  \r\n\r\nTwenty years or so later, the story of this woman\'s stand for her dignity, against what I perceive of as great doubt and perhaps real terror, gives me great joy. And Rosa Parks is to me a great saint.\r\n\r\n What a gift you helped her to realize.  Too few in the Church recognize this “shadow self,” being more concerned with not sinning.  Thank you.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(1469,5966,'tom lynch','lynch.gerard@yahoo.com','','69.171.160.0','2012-04-15 17:39:45','2012-04-16 00:39:45','Last sentence should read, \"Too many in the Church DON\'T recognize, lol.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(1470,5966,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','108.201.189.13','2012-04-15 19:16:05','2012-04-16 02:16:05','Thanks Tom.  It is good to hear your voice again. And thank you for your kind words.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',1468,1),(1471,5966,'Ed','ed@inpulsearts.com','http://www.inpulsearts.com/Word','68.96.97.76','2012-04-15 19:47:06','2012-04-16 02:47:06','Rosa Parks was a BOLD woman!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; Trident/5.0; BOIE9;ENUS)','',0,0),(1472,5966,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','108.201.189.13','2012-04-15 20:29:10','2012-04-16 03:29:10','Yes she was Ed. What I didn\'t post was how influential she was. In the book, the author goes on to show how her love for people deeply influenced the response that followed.  She worked tirelessly for other people volunteering, connecting, etc.  So when that moment happened, people want to give back to her and to support what she helped move.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',1471,1),(1473,5900,'John.','jmartensconsulting@hotmail.com','','50.92.228.130','2012-04-16 10:07:41','2012-04-16 17:07:41','Thanks for the article!\r\n\r\nLast night I was challenged by another article that seemed to really crystalize the issues at stake in this topic. You may also like it as it gives some answers to your questions. And, like you, the author goes back to Genesis to establish the rational for our responsibility to seek social justice. You can find the article by Michael Horton here: http://www.modernreformation.org/default.php?page=articledisplay&amp;var1=ArtRead&amp;var2=1276&amp;var3=authorbio&amp;var4=AutRes&amp;var5=1',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.2','',0,0),(1474,5900,'Buddy aka Beverly','Buddynet02@att.net','http://MarriageEquality','108.210.160.96','2012-04-16 10:42:47','2012-04-16 17:42:47','I\'m so glad for your article.  I\'ve had this discussion with so-called Christian conservatives many a time.  Usually it starts with them complaining about tax money going to social programs and how it\'s killing our economy and how we need to make cuts.  So I remind them that Jesus said to render unto Caesar what is Caesar\'s; in other words, that we are to pay our taxes.  They say yes, but they don\'t think the taxes should have to go to social programs.  So I remind them that Jesus was all about helping the poor, \"the least of them.\"  They say they are fine with helping the poor but that the government should just stay out of it.  So I tell them that I agree with them, that Jesus didn\'t get to tell Caesar what to do with the tax money he collected, but I can\'t help but think he would approve of it.  I tell them to imagine what if Caesar did seek Jesus\'s advice on what to do with the tax money.  I could just imagine Caesar showing Jesus around his opulent castle and saying I have gold and silver everywhere, my gold crown has jewels inlaid, my wives all dress in the finest silk and are laden with jewels, as are my concubines.  Even my servants wear the finest polished cotton.  What should I do with my latest windfall?  Then I imagine Jesus taking Caesar for a little walk around his kindom, starting with the market place, past the blind and the beggars, into a few of the poorer homes to visit the sick and dying, and past the leper camps and turning to Caesar and saying do you see anywhere your money could be put to good use?  Of course, the choice is now Caesars, just as it is ours.  But I think as much as Jesus cared for the poor and the sick, he would certainly approve of a portion of what we pay in to the govrnment go there, and I even think it would be a priority.\r\n\r\nI put something in my Facebook status a while ago about the poor, and the comments I got were that we didn\'t need social programs for this, that the churches and charities would take care of this.  So I reminded my commentors that in the 1930s, during the times of tent cities and tar shacks, these programs were implimented because the churches and charities couldn\'t do enough.  Neither can they today for all the families without means due to outsourcing and downsizing of jobs.  A bundle of gently used clothing, a blanket or two, a couple loaves of bread, a bag of beans or potatoes and a couple of packages of macaroni and cheese isn\'t going to feed a family for long, nor will it pay their rent, utilities and put gass in their car to look for work or get to job interviews.  And passing around that \"special offering plate\" will not take just one family far for long either.  We need those insititutions.  The very next day I again put something about the poor and how we should help in my status, and this time my first comment was from a self-described Christian conservative that said, \"I\'m not about to give to any charities.  They can just work like I have to.\"  So much for that Christian\'s loving heart toward those with less than himself, and I see this same attitude often among Christians, but most are less blunt about it.\r\n\r\nSo I am wondering what has happened to the Christian attitude I grew up with?  The Christ I learned about back in the day, before the \"Prosperity Doctrine\" began to invade our mainstream Christian churches 30 years ago, and before Ayn Rand\'s \"Atlas Shrugged\" made a resurgeance in the 1980s, that Christ was about turning the other cheek and told us that if someone asks for your cloak, give them your coat as well.  Christ stressed the importance of healing the sick and helping the poor.  Never, never did I ever hear it taught that they were a bunch of lazy bums that could just go and work themselves.  I wonder where our Christian ethic has gone.  Nowdays, I see so many Christians that carry an attitude of selfishness, an \"I got mine, so the heck with you\" attitude so prevasive that it\'s almost become their mantra.  Not only is it okay to be selfish and to want to hang on to what\'s yours, but it is now seen as a godly attitude.  Talk about having your ears tickled!\r\n\r\nIf is for this reason and a few others as well that I no longer consider myself a conservative and will not vote that way.  At this time, I even struggle with the word \"Christian\" because of what it has come to represent, and which is the very opposite of what I think Christ was all about.  Thank you again for your timely article.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(1475,5900,'John.','jmartensconsulting@hotmail.com','','50.92.228.130','2012-04-16 12:04:01','2012-04-16 19:04:01','One good example of God using government to care for the basic needs of the people is the Biblical account of Joseph\'s role in Egypt. In this story God\'s man was instrumental in directing government to care for the hungry in a way that no other institution could. The people saved from this seven year famine were not \'the people of God\', yet God obviously cared for them. From this you could easily draw the conclusion that the wisdom of God directs governments to care for their people using resources demanded from the people.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/10.0.2','',0,0),(1476,5900,'HometownProphet','jeff@hometownprophetbook.com','http://www.hometownprophetbook.com/','69.138.63.63','2012-04-16 14:01:11','2012-04-16 21:01:11','Thanks for your reply. Obviously, I too have been frustrated with the way conservative politics became co-mingled with Christianity.  Ayn Rand does seem to be a pretty good representative of that hybrid ideology.   Of course, while she worked with evangelicals on some common goals, she did not share their religious views.  Sadly, many Christians have taken up her beliefs over their own gospel when it comes to matters of social justice.  I wrote a blog about that a while back called <a href=\"http://www.hometownprophetbook.com/the-radical-atheistic-agenda-of-ayn-rand/\" rel=\"nofollow\">The Radical Atheistic Agenda of Ayn Rand</a>.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',1474,160),(1477,5900,'HometownProphet','jeff@hometownprophetbook.com','http://www.hometownprophetbook.com/','69.138.63.63','2012-04-16 14:10:57','2012-04-16 21:10:57','Hey John, the Horton article was good.  From what I understood, it makes the case for applying the greatest commandments to society as a whole, which would include loving others as yourself. I also appreciate the example of God using Joseph (Egypt\'s Secretary of Agriculture or the Interior) to save people\'s lives.  Then and now, God can work through governments and institutions to accomplish His will.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',1475,160),(1526,6296,'David Henson','bluegrassrambling@gmail.com','','24.42.177.57','2012-04-30 11:59:54','2012-04-30 18:59:54','The name of the magazine isn\'t my creation. I\'m just writing for it. \r\n\r\nI completely agree that the orthodox Christian belief is one of a literal Satan. This entire post is based on that premise. My argument is that this orthodox belief confounds the other central orthodox belief claim of monotheism. So arguing from your point is a nonstarter, because I concede that point. My point is that these orthodox beliefs are internally inconsistent. Perhaps you see the reasoning now?\r\n\r\nMy point is that this Christian belief in Satan — which is rampant throughout Christianity — has created this exact dualism you rightly disagree with. To say that it has at times run amuck is a vast, vast understatement. American evangelicalism is a primary culprit as well as medieval Christianity. This is not some ancient problem to ignore or snicker about. This is a very modern, very real, very widespread force within Christianity and not just in Anglo worlds. Pentecostalism, in case you are unaware, is the fastest-growing segment of the faith and this belief is particularly widespread in that perspective.  \r\n\r\nI\'m still waiting for dissenters to engage the post on its own merits and argument — that the being called Satan functions as a god — an eternal supernatural being with powers to influence humanity for its own purposes. In any other religious scheme, we would as Christians rightly call this a dualism and condemn as heretical. We just have  our own blinders on to our own inconsistencies.\r\n\r\nGiven the general disrespectful tone of your comment, however, I seem to have off-put you. What we call admitting our own bias in the field of theology is called honesty, or locating oneself. (It gives people an opportunity to dismiss arguments that make them uncomfortable based on personal reasons rather than actual reason.)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9B176 Safari/7534.48.3','',1525,31),(1480,5800,'LizzyBean','sammykat76@gmail.com','','76.181.248.40','2012-04-19 08:18:47','2012-04-19 15:18:47','Well written! When I was in my earl twenties, and was a sexually active young woman, I took the pill for my own safety. You can\'t always trust that a condom won\'t break, or that he\'ll even have one on him in the first place. Even though now I take it more for health than to prevent pregnancy, it angers me that I should have to justify it to *anyone* as to why I want/need them.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.162 Safari/535.19','',0,0),(1481,5800,'Sara','sarazblum@gmail.com','http://charitymercyrestraint.blogspot.com/','165.89.84.88','2012-04-19 08:23:56','2012-04-19 15:23:56','Agreed! And should we not be trying to encourage responsible sexual interactions? Women attempting to prevent an unwanted pregnancy should be encouraged at every turn. They are doing what is best for them and for our society.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',0,0),(1482,5800,'Buddy aka Beverly','Buddynet02@att.net','http://MarriageEquality','108.82.202.211','2012-04-19 10:32:03','2012-04-19 17:32:03','I\'m so glad you chose this topic, Alise.  I was shocked and dismayed to find out that in this day and age, birth control for women is still an issue with anyone.  But apparently, Rush Limbaugh and his little blue Viagra pills are just A-okay, and as a superior male being, he has the right to cast judgment on a young lady who explained the medicinal value of the pill and call her a slut and a prostitute and tell her she ought to make a porno tape and let him watch it to pay for her pills.  It seemed like we were back in 1972 again to this old feminist.\r\n\r\nRick Santorum, who seemed to be campaigning for high school dance chaperon more than running for president, says he doesn\'t think birth control is necessary or that it\'s good for women.  And a lot of republicans don\'t seem to mind as they are thinking about teen sex, and don\'t realize that this so-called \"small government\" man wants to control what married people do as well.  Scott Walker, good old union buster, has also jumped on the bandwagon against birth control.  And again the rightwing seems to be okay with it.  Somehow it all seems to come down to the female sex and keeping them under control, yet the GOP as turned this all around and is now calling it \"Obama\'s War on Women.\"  I keep wondering where the republican women\'s outrage is on all this, but traditionally, republicans seem to be obsessed with sex, especially other people\'s and what they might be doing, so they see this as an attack on promiscuity, not on women, working women who can\'t just be pregnant all the time.  \r\n\r\nThe latest has been the so-called attack on Mrs. Romney for being a stay-at-home mom of five.  I have just come from a message board where people are saying that President Obama put the lady reporter up to asking her the obvious.  But Mitt has sent his wife out to be an ambassador to try and smooth the ruffled feathers of women offended by the whole birth control thing, and he says his wife tells him that women aren\'t all that worried about contraception, but jobs is their big issue.  So if I was that reporter, my question would be just what kind of jobs could women get and hold if they are pregnant all the time?  Taking in laundry and babysitting?  Can anyone anywhere be sane about this???  Must it be a political issue instead of a woman\'s issue?  I\'d love to hear from republican women on this.  Thank you.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(1483,5800,'Janet Oberholtzer','JanetOberholtzer@gmail.com','http://www.JanetOberholtzer.com','70.44.193.60','2012-04-19 19:14:11','2012-04-20 02:14:11','Great post Alise!\r\nIt was great to read some of the same thoughts that I\'ve had loosely roaming through my head recently pulled together into coherent thoughts and sentences. Though personally, my libido is taking a long vacation in a cold tundra somewhere, I get annoyed at the double-standard that exists for men and women. \r\n\r\nWrite on!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.163 Safari/535.19','',0,0),(1484,5800,'Sarah Moon','moonsn11@gmail.com','http://sarahoverthemoon.com','184.58.115.184','2012-04-19 23:21:08','2012-04-20 06:21:08','YES! This is so true and so awesome, Alise! Thanks for standing up for women with sex drives (which is nearly all of us :P)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.162 Safari/535.19','',0,0),(1485,5800,'Lisa','contact@lisadelay.com','http://lisadelay.com','174.55.13.0','2012-04-20 05:13:57','2012-04-20 12:13:57','There are some cultural assumptions and influencers in the undercurrent of this issue. Questions about acceptable behavior arise, and it seems expectations play a bigger role than we\'d care to admit or believe.\r\n\r\nIf it wasn\'t for birth control, my husband and I would  probably have  6-10 kids. I have wondered if I\'ve stopped God\'s blessing sometimes...but I also realize that my plate is full. Planning is a blessing. I live in a time where a lot, even a person\'s existence, can be shaped by my control. So, I encounter that for a minute....and WOW. That\'s sobering! It\'s weighty. I\'m not sure I\'m ready to absorb what that means.\r\n\r\nWhat happens when we think we can, and we do exert such control?\r\n...much more than we first assume...',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_3) AppleWebKit/534.55.3 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.5 Safari/534.55.3','',0,0),(1486,1000,'Lisa','contact@lisadelay.com','http://lisadelay.com','174.55.13.0','2012-04-20 06:29:40','2012-04-20 13:29:40','In related news, Mars Hill Church is suing the city of Athens, and Luke, the writer of Acts. Reports say an Unknown god, is still unknown.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_3) AppleWebKit/534.55.3 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.5 Safari/534.55.3','',0,0),(1487,5800,'Jo','vickijocox@yahoo.com','','69.19.14.34','2012-04-20 10:35:19','2012-04-20 17:35:19','Does Provoketive welcome all conversation?  And you, Alise?\r\n\r\nI think you completely missed the boat on this one.  The judgment isn\'t about behavior at all.  If that is what you\'re hearing, you\'re listening to the wrong voices.  The issue is women taking responsibility for themselves.  I am beyond childbearing years now, but I never, ever expected my birth control choice (for me, The Pill) to be free or for taxpayers to pay for it.  I worked at a bank as a teller at minimum wage, a single, self-supporting adult.  Later it was a family choice.  This is what the debate is about, taking responsibility for yourself.  Please don\'t muddy the discussion by making it appear to be anything other than that.  Anyone with a cell phone, a computer, and Internet can afford, and should be responsible for, their own birth control.  Do you not agree with that?  That\'s the issue.  Who cares, really, how much sex women have or want?  Or men.  Women want to be seen as equals, they need to man-up, act like equals, and learn to self-support w/o whining.  Thanks for listening to a different POV.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; CPU iPhone OS 5_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9B176 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,0),(1488,5800,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2012-04-20 10:59:56','2012-04-20 17:59:56','@Jo - If health insurance didn\'t regularly cover vasectomies and things like Viagra, I think you would have a point. But I\'ve seen no one who argues against the inclusion of the pill in health insurance plans say that these things should no longer be covered. And those on both side of the discussion seem to downplay women\'s sexuality. On one side, women who ask to have birth control added to health insurance are called sluts. On the other side, sexuality is completely ignored by focusing strictly on \"health\" issues. But really, women should be allowed to enjoy sex without justifying it to anyone.\r\n\r\nIn this I\'m not trying to make a comment about the inclusion of female contraceptives one way or the other, but simply to say that in the discussion, let\'s allow women\'s sexuality to be equal to that of men\'s. Right now, I don\'t believe that\'s the case.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.162 Safari/535.19','',1487,30),(1489,5800,'Christine','christine.organ@yahoo.com','http://www.randomreflectionz.com','98.228.225.9','2012-04-20 11:02:55','2012-04-20 18:02:55','Yes, yes, and yes!  Preventing unwanted pregnancies is a responsible, just like any proactive health care which is largely covered by health insurance.   But even beyond that equal access to birth control benefits our entire society by preventing pregnancies that are not only unplanned, but for which the parents cannot afford.  And yes, why is viagra covered by health insurance and contraceptives are not?  Just doesn\'t make sense.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',0,0),(1490,5800,'Jo','vickijocox@yahoo.com','','66.82.162.18','2012-04-20 12:08:39','2012-04-20 19:08:39','Working from my iPod... Forgive errors, plese.\r\n\r\nVasectomies are in the same category with tubal options, both covered by insurance.  Viagra is a whole different issue, and no company or taxpayer should be forced to pay for Viagra for another, IMO.\r\n\r\nThe Pill was covered by insurance at one time, as were many scrips now OTC.  No one was called a slut then, and they aren\'t now.  (There are those on both sides of the issue who cannot speak with respect.)  We let these changes slip by unnoticed and uncaring until we find out--too late--that it affects us, then cry \'foul\'.\r\n\r\nBeen enjoying sex for a long, long time, unimpeded by anyone.   I address this lopsided cultural thinking that men have the stronger sex drive when opportunity presents itself, and that they are unable to control their urges as if they are only animals without self-control or a brain, only a penis.  Both sexes are so much more than uncontrollable reproductive  organs.  I can\'t be boxed in, closed up, and shut down unless I give the key to someone else.  I hold my own key.  Why I am a political conservative, I have the right to my own key w/o being responsible for yours.\r\n\r\nThx for your response.  I have benefited from your pieces on living with an atheist.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; CPU iPhone OS 5_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9B176 Safari/7534.48.3','',1488,0),(1491,5945,'tom lynch','lynch.gerard@yahoo.com','','69.171.160.134','2012-04-21 11:30:09','2012-04-21 18:30:09','Thank you for your fine and inspiring piece, Ms. Eikenberry; it helped to stimulate a much needed and deeper look at areas I have ignored for a while.  The one and only test I see is where I remain agnostic, somewhat or deeply in doubt of God\'s mercy and love or ability to help.  Nothing outside of me can produce this effect, although I am usually sorely tempted to blame or put the onus on some person, place, thing, or situation.  Any rules or expectations I put on the world or God as to how both should act is most often where my trials and tribulations get their power.  I am not entitled to anything, for I already have abundance in the peace of Christ; getting the eyes to see that, of course, is the trick.\r\n\r\nIt has been my experience that “I am the architect of my own adversity.”  Perception is cause. All tribulations test my vision; it is an “I”-chart.  I know today that any time I am upset or wounded the source is in me, not out there. Reality is only in the heart; the life I get is there. I can only be a victim if I volunteer for it. But there is necessary suffering, and that is the realizations of where I have blocked the sunlight of the spirit, coming to see and walk through those wounds and defects that have limited His spirit. \r\n\r\nSorrow, for me, is not a trial or tribulation but a healing process of letting go of my attachments. In spirit and truth, all that can actually be taken from me or sacrificed by me is that which stands in the way of greater love and service. In effect, I can never lose anything of real value.\r\n\r\nAs you wisely noted in “the imagery of flourishing plants and trees,” God wants us to thrive, to be all that He gave us the potential to be through His Grace.  And, yes, your are so right: He has invited us all to a feast (but I too often clear that table for flowcharts, speadsheets, and arm wrestling) and the “good times” are the intended gift of placing ourselves in His care.  \r\n\r\nIt is in neither joy nor suffering that I get the motivation or necessary growth but with “the eyes to see” by the illumination of the Holy Spirit that “all things work for good for those who love God.”  And thanks to your surrender to His word, I get to rediscover this yet again.\r\n\r\nYours in Christ, Tom Lynch',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(1492,5800,'Gaudior','gaudiorrr@hotmail.com','','209.6.53.152','2012-04-23 10:26:03','2012-04-23 17:26:03','@ Jo--\r\n\r\nIt sounds like you\'re not considering birth control to be part of medical care-- like you\'re thinking that because it relates to sex-for-pleasure (or even sex in general) it should be considered a recreational cost, not a medical one.  I disagree: birth control is something prescribed by a doctor to care for your physical body.  That places it within the sphere of the general debate about who should pay for health care, but no more than any other kind of health care.  No?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X 10.4; en-US; rv:1.9.2.28) Gecko/20120306 Firefox/3.6.28','',1487,0),(1493,6132,'Rich Goulette','richard.goulette@gmail.com','','69.28.149.29','2012-04-24 08:57:49','2012-04-24 15:57:49','Change your heart, change your actions!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.162 Safari/535.19','',0,0),(1494,6132,'gerard lynch','lynch.gerard@yahoo.com','','24.40.92.242','2012-04-24 10:10:55','2012-04-24 17:10:55','This is great.  Love how simply and directly you came to this insight. Our cheerfulness is the point, for that pleases God and frees us from ego.  And it takes no effort and therefore no boast. Wonderfully wrapped revelation!\r\n\r\nTo the usual or worldly way of thinking, any giving is a sacrifice and cannot be considered a virtue unless there is some personal cost as well as conditions, quid pro quo most often. Where is the giving if there is no loss or pain to some degree, thinketh the world? Then there is also, as you mentioned, giving out of duty, the “obligatory” tithe. But as it says in the Tao: Perfect kindness acts without thinking of kindness.  Or it is catchier in the lyrics song by Janis Joplin: It ain\'t nothin\' if it ain\'t free, babe.\r\n\r\nThe cheerfulness, for me, is that delight in God and life, a deep down gratitude in and joy of being, that has everything needed for others in endless supply, the giving more like spillage from an overflowing cup.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.6) Gecko/20091201 Firefox/3.5.6','',0,0),(1495,6132,'gerard lynch','lynch.gerard@yahoo.com','','24.40.92.242','2012-04-24 10:22:48','2012-04-24 17:22:48','Oops, came across this just a few minutes after I commented. I\'d be interested in what you think.\r\n\r\nDuty is a subterfuge of vanity.\r\n  \r\nThere are no shoulds in the kingdom of heaven, and that is where we are to reside in each moment...the everlasting Now.  Any moral or ethical demands we hold and act from in response to our neighbor, is not the Father doing the works; it is our understanding, effort, and judgment, for which we claim achievement.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.6) Gecko/20091201 Firefox/3.5.6','',0,0),(1496,5783,'Donna Rowe','donnarowe@donnarowehealingblog.com','','98.207.92.4','2012-04-24 12:32:03','2012-04-24 19:32:03','Thank you for this wonderful article, even though this was written for Holy week, this can be lived each and every day in the present. Do you have other article or a book yet? If so I would be interested in knowing where to they are located on the web.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',0,0),(1497,5783,'AnnaWoofenden','anna@woofenden.net','http://annawoofenden.wordpress.com/','50.129.75.196','2012-04-24 15:49:11','2012-04-24 22:49:11','Hello Donna,\r\nThank you for your kind comment!  I agree, this work of noticing and naming the contradictions inside is ongoing. I keep finding things that point to it throughout scripture and life.  \r\nI do not have a book, yet... but I do strive to blog at least semi-regularly. You can find my work both here on provoketive and also at my personal website at: annawoofenden.com\r\nBlessings,\r\nAnna',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.163 Safari/535.19','',0,90),(1498,6132,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','108.201.189.13','2012-04-25 00:04:04','2012-04-25 07:04:04','I\'m not quite sure I understand.  Duty for me is an external story, and is sometimes independent of the person involved.  I think love finds a win/win for each involved.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',1495,1),(1499,6132,'tom lynch','lynch.gerard@yahoo.com','','69.171.160.45','2012-04-25 06:16:26','2012-04-25 13:16:26','\"...external story...independent of the person involved.\"\r\nSorry, I do not follow what you mean. Perhaps, then, I should try to explain what I mean. \r\nFor me, love has no duty, in the usual way we think of duty: \"conduct due to superiors; obligatory tasks.\"  Love always acts naturally for the ultimate well-being of others as is suited in the moment. Duty can overlook what is best for a perceived rightness of action. Duty comes from our understanding and effort.\r\nHowever, in the Process of Spiritual Maturation, Duty is crucial in first half of life business and detrimental in second half of life freedom.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',1498,0),(1500,6132,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','108.201.189.13','2012-04-25 07:42:14','2012-04-25 14:42:14','Tom, you\'ve said the same thing a different way.  An outside authority determines what\'s right.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',1499,1),(1501,6132,'gerard lynch','lynch.gerard@yahoo.com','','24.40.92.247','2012-04-25 10:28:57','2012-04-25 17:28:57','Jonathan, I guess I get easily confused. I said the same thing a different way to help clarify, in response to your saying that you were not quite sure you understood. \r\n\r\n\"An outside authority determines what’s right.\": are you saying that this statement is my point, simply restated? If so, then I have not been clear.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.6) Gecko/20091201 Firefox/3.5.6','',1500,0),(1502,6132,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','108.201.189.13','2012-04-25 13:42:33','2012-04-25 20:42:33','Tom, what I\'m trying to say is that when our motivations begin outside of us, or \"external\" we instinctively rebel against them, because we are called to be free.  Love begins with a choice, not a demand.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',1499,1),(1503,3677,'JM','jmdeeb@gmail.com','','50.75.17.56','2012-04-25 16:32:29','2012-04-25 23:32:29','Jesus wasn\'t interested in politics.  He was interested in people.  How do you get involved without politics? Easy- get involved without politics.  It isn\'t political to feed the homeless.  It isn\'t political to volunteer.  Jesus didn\'t speak out against the reigning Roman government or demand they feed the hungry people. No- He fed the people. He healed the people- and he asked his disciples to do the same.  He was the one who told Peter to put away his sword when the \"government\" came to take him away.  \r\nIts great that churches are non-profit and tax exempt- it gives them more money to do more good.  Each person and church is still responsible to God to use that money as God would lead.  No one should ever give to a church for the tax benefit.  That isn\'t what it\'s all about.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',0,0),(1504,6014,'Gillian Marchenko','gillian@rcn.com','http://www.gillianmarchenko.com','205.178.113.81','2012-04-26 08:47:33','2012-04-26 15:47:33','Powerful! Thank you Kim!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',0,0),(1505,2436,'Paula','paula@fether.net','http://www.fether.net','76.222.121.1','2012-04-26 10:27:33','2012-04-26 17:27:33','Many excellent comments above. I\'d just like to add some (generic) thoughts:\r\n\r\nThe question was asked, what is the point of gender then? Of course at the very least it\'s reproduction. But to ask beyond that is to mistake personality differences for gender differences. In other words, why not ask what is the point of personality? There are easily more differences among men and among women than between them, especially considering a wide variety of cultures through history. Isn\'t it possible that, in some cases, people were driven to homosexuality because they didn\'t act the way their society demanded for the body they were born in? The irony surely escapes those who insist upon strict gender roles.\r\n\r\nThe undeniable fact is that not all men are good leaders/protectors, and not all women are good mothers/nurturers. And whether two people share an intimate bond has more to do with how they \"complement\" each other than how well they play contrived \"roles\"-- as if one\'s flesh is not an intrinsic part of their identity and can be changed as an actor would play a different role in a different film. \r\n\r\nBut we really need to ask ourselves: if we long ago gave up arguing about whether blacks should have the same \"roles\" as whites, why do we still argue about whether women should have the same \"roles\" as men? If the flesh is not what God values most or bases gifts upon, then the kind of flesh is irrelevant. And if the equality of blacks did not make whites less white, surely the equality of women does not make men less manly. To even ask the question \"what about women in the church?\" is to betray a flawed foundation; it need not be asked at all. \r\n\r\nWomen are not to politely ask for a place at the adults\' table but to \"come boldly to the throne of grace\", through the \"curtain torn in two\", and take the seats bought for us by the blood of the Lamb. \"When one part of the Body suffers, the other parts suffer with it.\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux i686; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',0,0),(1506,2436,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','108.201.189.13','2012-04-26 10:36:30','2012-04-26 17:36:30','Paula, you bring up some really great points.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',1505,1),(1507,6132,'gerard lynch','lynch.gerard@yahoo.com','','24.40.92.242','2012-04-26 12:13:48','2012-04-26 19:13:48','Jonathan, funny, that\'s exactly what I was saying.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.6) Gecko/20091201 Firefox/3.5.6','',1502,0),(1508,6014,'Kim Van Brunt','kim@kimvanbrunt.com','http://www.kimvanbrunt.com/honestly-adoption-the-blog','96.42.222.3','2012-04-26 13:07:22','2012-04-26 20:07:22','Thanks Gillian.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',1504,173),(1509,6014,'MiCoBa','ayim80@gmail.com','','71.252.126.169','2012-04-26 15:25:35','2012-04-26 22:25:35','Thanks so much for this article.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.162 Safari/535.19','',0,0),(1510,6014,'Kristina','kristinapetrella@yahoo.com','http://www.hithertoandhenceforth.blogspot.com','24.59.242.231','2012-04-26 19:42:20','2012-04-27 02:42:20','Wow, Kim.  Thank you for this perspective.  It so resonates with me.  Thank you again.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.162 Safari/535.19','',0,0),(1511,2508,'Paula','paula@fether.net','http://www.fether.net','76.222.121.1','2012-04-26 19:55:40','2012-04-27 02:55:40','A refreshingly irenic article and good comments.\r\n\r\nBut I think it needs to be emphasized that the whole focus on \"roles\" is misplaced in the Body of Christ. The various parts are all of one substance, one Body, and while the parts are many and varied, none of them reports to another but only to the one Head. The eye does not need permission from the hand, and the nose cannot be the decision-maker for the foot. Being gift-focused rather than flesh- or role-focused is how this Body was designed. This cooperative model is starkly contrasted with the world\'s chain of command.\r\n\r\nBut putting the focus on roles tends to create something I call \"benevolent lording over\"; people redefine \"lording over\" into \"serving\" as long as it\'s benevolent. But the question should not be *how* one person holds the trump card, but *whether* they hold it. It also elevates the flesh to the position of greatest importance, since only the flesh and nothing else is what determines who holds that trump card. \r\n\r\nIn addition, even if this is all done very nicely and amicably, one is hard-pressed to explain how it differs in practice from egalitarian relationships. How does \"designated tie-breaker/spiritual leader\" taking his wife\'s advice look or function differently from just letting the most gifted or convicted person lead depending on the situation? It seems to me that we put a cardboard crown on the head of the man and call it his spiritual leadership role when in reality the wife is actually leading at the moment. It\'s like the mystical \"covering\" many believe a pastor holds over a congregation; somehow, magically, if a pastor declares that a woman is under his \"covering\", she may be allowed to stand behind the sacred pulpit and actually teach, preach, or prophesy.\r\n\r\nI think all of this effort to retain the language of exclusive male leadership while practicing shared leadership is sincere but not quite honest, for lack of a better term. It could be described as \"double-minded\", not by intent but by default. We know deep inside that to be truly equal we cannot use the flesh as a criterion for leadership, yet we often find it difficult to break with deep-seated traditional roles or perhaps misunderstand the Biblical teaching on the matter, so we try to fit these two conflicting principles together like jigsaw puzzle pieces that don\'t quite match.\r\n\r\nPersonally, I see the scriptures teaching absolute functional and ontological equality, so I have no conflict to wrestle with. My husband of over 20 years and I have truly complemented each other, deferring when the other is best qualified and leading when the other needs us to. I stayed home to raise our kids because I wanted to and my husband\'s job could support us. Yet I am the lifelong Bible student and better qualified to lead in spiritual matters. He is no less of a man or a Christian for submitting to my spiritual leadership, and I am no less of a woman or a Christian for submitting to his provision of our physical needs.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Ubuntu; Linux i686; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',0,0),(1512,6014,'Kim Van Brunt','kim@kimvanbrunt.com','http://www.kimvanbrunt.com/honestly-adoption-the-blog','96.42.222.3','2012-04-26 20:05:06','2012-04-27 03:05:06','Thanks so much, Kristina! Great to see you here.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',1510,173),(1513,6014,'Addie Zierman','addiezierman@gmail.com','http://howtotalkevangelical.addiezierman.com','66.41.174.178','2012-04-27 06:33:44','2012-04-27 13:33:44','This was beautiful, Kim. Found this line so compelling: \"Any adoption involves such staggering fundamental loss...and that loss is part of me too.\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.162 Safari/535.19','',0,0),(1514,2436,'liz','beyerbe@comcast.net','','71.63.220.227','2012-04-27 23:26:06','2012-04-28 06:26:06','I am very late to this discussion and I think that many have made great points. Johnathan, I appreciated that you \"wondered what it would be like to be a women in a male dominated society.\" I can’t say I have ever had a man ask me that, but here are some things that came to my mind immediately.\r\n•	It isn’t much fun.\r\n•	It means hearing/learning about male (exclusively) heroes/movers-and-shakers in cultural and biblical history. But then when you emulate those heroes, you are criticized and condemned for being “too masculine,” “assertive,” “loud,” “bossy,” “usurping what doesn’t belong to you”—as though courage and faith that is expressed through teaching, exhortation, prophecy, and evangelism are male traits. I honestly don’t ever remember learning about any women leaders in world history until I was in high school (although there were, in fact, many) and certainly I never heard about women heroes of the Bible preached in church (except for Mary). I grew up literally thinking that there were none.\r\n•	It means living your entire life hearing things like “mankind” and “man” instead of “humankind” or “humanity”; or “you run like a girl” (obviously bad) or “don’t be such a cry baby” (even worse) and you quickly absorb the concept that  males are representative of all humankind. So maleness becomes the measure or plumb line for what is excellent or preferable. And you measure yourself by that plumb line to see if you pass or fail.\r\n•	It means living your life hiding your true self in order to keep up the appearance of being acceptably “feminine”—whatever that means. I still don’t know what that means. I am a woman, but I don’t often think of myself as a woman, but rather as a human being. It is not until I have done or said something that doesn’t fit the definition of feminine, and I receive push-back against it, that I realize that I have stepped outside the boundaries. But, I am female, so who has the right to define what is feminine? Shouldn’t it be females? I am simply who I am.\r\nOnce, a male friend of mine made the comment that I “think like a man.” It had never occurred to me whether or not I thought like a man or a woman. (I didn’t know what to think of that—whether I should fell complimented or insulted. I think he was simply surprised).\r\n•	It means at times having a deep sense of shame for being female, because many of the things that are stereotypically female are not valued.\r\n•	It means having people not take you seriously, or treat you like a child, because “what can a woman contribute that is of value?”\r\nThese are the things that came to mind immediately. I am sure that if I thought longer, I could think of more.\r\n\r\nI am glad that some are willing to have this conversation.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/12.0','',0,0),(1515,6014,'Jedd Medefind','jedd.medefind@gmail.com','','50.13.188.212','2012-04-28 10:59:57','2012-04-28 17:59:57','This is such an important theme to emphasize, especially among those focused exclusively on the redemptive aspects of adoption.  The wisdom Kim expresses is the reason so many excellent Christian organizations pour such vast resources into things like community development, water projects, family medical care, and an array of other initiatives that help preserve the lives of parents and keep struggling families together.   This is all vital (and, full disclosure, I also serve on the board of a microfinance organizations that advances this vision, too.)  Even so, it may not be best to conclude that \"the first half of the story is where our focus should be.\"   Christians are called to both:  preserving families AND caring for orphans.  And despite our best efforts on the \"first half,\" there will still always be orphans.  While we must continue to pour investment and effort into \"the first half,\" we also have a clear mandate to be the first to stand up for the world\'s orphans as well--whether helping them find a home with local families or via inter-country adoption or other means of care.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(1516,6014,'AnnaWoofenden','anna@woofenden.net','http://annawoofenden.com/','50.129.75.196','2012-04-29 18:16:33','2012-04-30 01:16:33','Kim,\r\nThank you for this post. It moved me deeply and speaks so clearly and powerfully.  I have a deep love for adoption and hope it will be part of forming my family when that time comes. Your story is such a reminder to me of how that love of caring for children goes far beyond the ones we get to snuggle and bond with. It also holds up accountability about one\'s own motivations and ability to engage in the reality of painful situations. I appreciate you naming the loss and the injustice alongside the precious gifts of adoption.\r\nBlessings on your work in the world,\r\nAnna',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.165 Safari/535.19','',0,90),(1517,6296,'Austin','aleikenberry@yahoo.com','','12.189.199.68','2012-04-30 08:35:16','2012-04-30 15:35:16','I agree with what you\'re saying... Satan should not have as much prominence as God, that\'s clear. The focus the conventional teaching has had essentially equates satan and God in the life of the believer. A challenge between the force of evil as represented by Satan, and the force of good as represented by the Holy Spirit.\r\n\r\nClearly, too much credit is given to the tempter and not enough to the temptation. Satan only has power because we are tempted to sin. We only lose when we sin. Satan can\'t make us lose and God doesn\'t make us win. God empowers us with the Holy Spirit and Satan whispers temptations, but ultimately we are free moral agents. That is the beauty of practical Christianity. There is an all-powerful diety that allows us to act. There is a powerful, but less powerful tempter that is incapable of forcing us to act. The balance allows for us to freely act and freely love. Ultimately, our actions are our responsibility.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; InfoPath.3; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E)','',0,0),(1518,6296,'David Henson','bluegrassrambling@gmail.com','','24.42.177.57','2012-04-30 08:41:56','2012-04-30 15:41:56','Thanks for the comment. Not to argue, but to push the conversation. What category of being/entity would you place Satan? Human? Demigod? Spirit-being? God? I\'m honestly curious, because it strikes me that most of those (Demigod, Spirit-being, god) argues against monotheism rather than buttressing the claim. The dualism created here is still God and Satan fighting over humans in a spiritual battle, and that doesn\'t seem like a monotheism (if we pull back our theological qualifiers and justifications). We still have, in this configuration, two very powerful deities who for all of human history have yet to defeat the other completely.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.55.3 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.5 Safari/534.55.3','',0,31),(1519,6296,'Ulrich','vomhagen@gmx.net','','198.166.214.5','2012-04-30 09:15:42','2012-04-30 16:15:42','Thanks to both of you for the provoking article as well as the insightful comment. \r\n\r\nI think Austin hints us in the right direction when he points to the role of the holy spirit as a counter-balance to Satan. God allows us to be free and burdens us with the gift of freedom. Satan doesn\'t have power over us untill we allow it, while God is almighty but is certainly not the type of deity that intervenes when we make mistakes. Satan actually represents us humans if and when we try to be like God. Satan, the devil, and whatever name we have for the dark powers seems to me like a a real force, perhaps even a real spectre, but is certainly not a deity -- even though it would seem to many Non-Christians due to the laissez-faire way some of us Christians use Satan as an excuse for their lack of self-discipline and insight into Jesus\' teachings.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.8) Gecko/20100722 Firefox/3.6.8 ( .NET CLR 3.5.30729)','',1518,0),(1520,6296,'cpm','paigemarshall22@gmail.com','','50.52.19.153','2012-04-30 09:59:50','2012-04-30 16:59:50','Yeah, I\'d like to know when Balaam\'s \"satan\" (who happened to be the Angel of the Lord doing God\'s bidding) turned against God? And I do remember a prominent NT epistle reminding us that we our tempted by what is inside us, not outside.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2) Gecko/20100115 Firefox/3.6','',0,0),(1521,6296,'Heidi M.','selkie55@yahoo.com','','165.166.156.104','2012-04-30 10:17:49','2012-04-30 17:17:49','I was always taught that Lucifer was just an archangel, albeit a fallen one. So it always puzzled me as to why people who claimed to have much greater religious and biblical knowledge than I did, gave Satan/Lucifer credit for so much power. I would say, \"But he\'s not God. He was created by God.\" And I would just get the \"tut-tuts\" that I didn\'t understand. \r\n\r\nBut I think you\'ve hit the nail on the head in this post. WE are responsible for the troubles in the world. And that\'s a hard thing for many to admit. So, they invent the \"boogeyman\" and imbue him with a great deal of power. Like witchcraft accusations on a much larger scale.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:12.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/12.0','',0,0),(1522,6296,'Christie','sasschristine@yahoo.com','http://www.randomreflectionz.com','98.228.225.9','2012-04-30 10:27:24','2012-04-30 17:27:24','What a truly insightful and thought-provoking post.   I am not a Christian, but I was raised a Catholic and am very familiar with this mentality.  I think that this portrayal of religion has been the source of many people withdrawing.  Thank you for posting this and getting the message out there that religion does not need to be about fear, but about love.  Well said.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/12.0','',0,0),(1523,6296,'Ezekiel','zekegperez@aol.com','','69.247.59.15','2012-04-30 10:53:31','2012-04-30 17:53:31','I also agree that some peoples god is TOO small and their devil TOO big. However I am curious about all of this \"hell does not exist\" discussion, and now neither does the devil?\r\nWhat about the times Jesus spoke of Satan? In speaking to Peter He said \"get behind me satan\"\r\nHe was in the wilderness being tempted by the devil and actually spoke to him. And finally, what about the parable of the goats and the sheep? Jesus said the goats would go into the \"lake of eternal fire reserved for the devil and all of his angels\" , no?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.162 Safari/535.19','',0,0),(1524,6296,'David Henson','bluegrassrambling@gmail.com','','24.42.177.57','2012-04-30 11:23:41','2012-04-30 18:23:41','I think that is a discussion for a different post, as this one does not argue that Satan does not exist (I confess my own leanings but do not argue the position thoroughly) nor do I challenge the existence of a literal hell.\r\n\r\nWhat I am arguing in this post is that the figure of Satan, as it functions and it has been thought of in traditional Christianity, confounds Christian claims to monotheism and is itself fundamentally heretical because of this. \r\n\r\nLet\'s keep the conversation, as best we can, to this. I am not trying to dismiss your comments, but it\'s difficult to spend an entire post arguing one way only to have it switched. If we were discussing your questions, I would have written a different post! :) We can exegete passages on \"the satan\" (literally \"the adversary\") later and what Jesus meant by those passages. (Was he using the satan as a metaphor for Peter being an adversary — the literal definition of the Satan — in obstructing his decision to die on the cross? And questions of the like are enough for exploration on their own)\r\n\r\nI welcome your thoughts on whether the figure of Satan comports with monotheism and how to reconcile monotheism with the notion that two supernatural beings are locked in eternal battle — neither having definitively defeated the other as both, as traditional Christianity understands it, are still warring.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9B176 Safari/7534.48.3','',1523,31),(1525,6296,'Derek','covenant@covenantoflove.net','http://covenantoflove.net','76.70.6.12','2012-04-30 11:35:31','2012-04-30 18:35:31','Well, I see why you call your blog \"provoketive\". :)\r\n\r\nDavid, you strike me as a smart guy. So I\'m going to be blunt: Aren\'t we the kettle calling the pot black when we admit, \"Now, to be clear, I don’t believe that a being called Satan exists.\"\r\n\r\nFor starters, if the church has always believed that a being called the Satan existed - and it has! - than that is orthodoxy. To say that you don\'t believe that a being called Satan exists is to admit that <i>you</i> have strayed from Church orthodoxy, not the other way around. Now if you wish to establish your own orthodoxy, well that\'s all fine and dandy. \r\n\r\nSecondly, and this is where I appeal to your good sense and smarts, this blog article has fundamentally confused the Church orthodox belief in the Satan with a dualism of sorts. Sure the Church has run amuck at times with colourful depictions and fantastic images of the Satan, particularly in the Medieval period and in some branches of radical charismatic wings in our own day. And yes, <i>at times the Church has fallen into a kind of dualism</i>, <b>but that is not the orthodox Christian understanding of the Satan</b>.\r\n\r\nSo, in conclusion, this post is not well reasoned. Sorry. Oh, and it seems to me that your views have been shaped, in large part, by bad teaching regarding atonement, Satan and God. Sorry for that too. :-(',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_3) AppleWebKit/534.55.3 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.5 Safari/534.55.3','',0,0),(1527,6014,'Kim Van Brunt','kim@kimvanbrunt.com','http://www.kimvanbrunt.com/honestly-adoption-the-blog','96.42.222.3','2012-04-30 12:16:34','2012-04-30 19:16:34','Thanks for reading and taking time to comment, Jedd. I do agree with you that both are important, but I\'m wondering whether you\'ve observed that the Christian community is too focused on adoption-as-gospel and not enough on trying to help solve the problems that make a child available for adoption. It\'s an impression I have, with an admittedly narrow range of experience. (Or if they are helping with global poverty/AIDS/clean water AND adoption, sometimes they don\'t connect the fact that one feeds the other.) \r\n\r\nI suppose this post was directed at those who have a one-dimensional view of adoption -- those who aren\'t also helping with clean water, microfinance, education and maternal health efforts, and/or those who think that inter-country adoption is preferable to extended family care or even growing up in poverty (and you clearly aren\'t in that category!). \r\n\r\nThank you, truly, for giving me some things to think about re: how I frame the discussion, and about my assumptions about the community at large.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',1515,173),(1528,6014,'Kim Van Brunt','kim@kimvanbrunt.com','http://www.kimvanbrunt.com/honestly-adoption-the-blog','96.42.222.3','2012-04-30 12:19:12','2012-04-30 19:19:12','Yes, thank you Anna. It\'s very much about going beyond our little families and the sense of responsibility I feel to my son and to the world, now with what I\'ve seen and what I know. Adoption is an incredible gift that comes at such a great cost, and I never want to gloss over what it\'s cost my son. Thanks so much for your encouragement! Blessings.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',1516,173),(1529,6296,'David Henson','bluegrassrambling@gmail.com','','24.42.177.57','2012-04-30 12:45:18','2012-04-30 19:45:18','Thanks Ulrich. I am bothered somewhat by your description of how Satan represents humans when we try to be like God as it seems to contradict the Orthodox notion of theosis. I thought the point of the Chistian life was to become more and more like God.\r\n\r\nIf the Holy Spirit is a counterbalance to Satan, then we have implicitly equated Satan with the third person of the Trinity (ie God). \r\n\r\nI don\'t see a way around the unhinging of Christian monotheism when it comes to its belief in Satan (even that phrase -- belief in Satan belies language we usually reserve for God.\r\n\r\nNow, if Satan is the name we give to evil, then you and I agree as I mentioned in the post vis a vis the personification of evil.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9B176 Safari/7534.48.3','',1519,31),(1530,6296,'Ulrich','vomhagen@gmx.net','','198.166.214.5','2012-04-30 13:08:38','2012-04-30 20:08:38','David, I agree with your criticism of the thinking and teachings of some Christian groups re. the devil, but wish you were more specific. It is certainly not true that \"Christianity\" indirectly belives in two deities; if you\'re under this impression then you focus might be to much directed on current Evangelical churches in the USA, e.g. Pentacostals. BTW, most Christians in the Middle Ages where in many ways less  fanatical then some Christian groups today, because they still lived in a daily basis in and with God\'s creation, nature and that there are angels; Lucifer was just an angel gone bad. Nature involved our reason as a part of itself, but was not dependent on that reason for most of its operations. They were part of that ordered natural goodness before modernity set in. Before human hubris set in. In this sense Lucifer reminds me very much of the modern man. \r\nPerhaps it would be worth deliberating how an angel like Lucifer can become greedy and ready to push away the creator.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.8) Gecko/20100722 Firefox/3.6.8 ( .NET CLR 3.5.30729)','',1518,0),(1531,6296,'David Henson','bluegrassrambling@gmail.com','','24.42.177.57','2012-04-30 14:01:28','2012-04-30 21:01:28','I don\'t think this is an issue only for the U.S., particularly as the majority of Christians are no longer Americans or even Anglos. And Pentecostalism is the fastest-growing segment of Christianity worldwide and this belief in a dualistic Satan is quite popular.\r\n\r\nFurther, I would say that *any* Christian would not admit they believe in two deities. What I am arguing is that Christianity, based on how it has theologically created the figure of Satan, implicitly does. Christianity does express Satan as a fallen angel, based on one enigmatic, if not problematic text, if I\'m not mistaken. What I am saying that Christian belief in a literal Satan functions and imbues Satan with qualities that in any objective observer would say resembles a god and would argue against Christian claims to monotheism. \r\n\r\nAny Christian belief in a literal Satan in which Satan is an eternal, supernatural being  who tries to woo humanity to its side, just as God does, is fundamentally at odds with claims to monotheism. Because a supernatural, eternal being seem to be qualities one would reserve for a god, particularly one that is evil and at odds with the good God. \r\n\r\nFurther, the popularity and historic use of Satan reveals there is more to this figure than meets the eye. Elaine Pagels\' book Origins of Satan is particularly engaging on this subject.\r\n\r\nNow we can use Lucifer and the tale of Satan falling from heaven as a metaphorical myth for human hubris. I\'m fine with that. The problem is when we transpose the meaning of that tale for a literal reality.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.55.3 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.5 Safari/534.55.3','',1530,31),(1532,6296,'Marcie','weilerb@ix.netcom.com','','75.70.155.245','2012-04-30 14:41:58','2012-04-30 21:41:58','If I remember my OT correctly, the real name of the being that is being called \"Satan\" is Lucifer and an angel of God, coming and going just like Michael, Gabriel and the other angels. The Christian Religion in the US has changed significantly since the youth of my generation (the 1950\'s, 1960\'s and 1970\'s) and become somewhat more simplistic regarding good and evil. \n\nI was brought up in the Bible Belt Evangecal church to believe in God the OMNI - omnipotent (unlimited power), omnipresent (present in all places at all times) and omniscient (knowing all things). 19th and 20th Century Humanist theology really denies Omnipotency and brings forth the problem of Theodicy. I agree with Mr. Henson\'s description of modern lay thinking of Satan. It is convenient to blame someone else. I think it was Red Foxx who said on his TV comedy \"the devil make me do it!\" \'Nuff said.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1; Trident/4.0; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET4.0C)','',1526,0),(1533,6296,'Joseph','joseph@deruvophotography.com','','68.198.103.66','2012-04-30 17:12:50','2012-05-01 00:12:50','I am not one to engage in debates or arguments, people believe what they believe and I find little value in prying what they hold on so dearly to from there grasps. But you ask a question, so I will do my best to answear it in Faith and with Prayer. I have always been of the leaning that as Satan was numbered as part of the Sons of God in the book of Job, I have always thought just that of him, a Son of God like Christ. Now where they differ is that Christ accepted the call to be human and to sacrifice Himself for the Love of Gods creation. I would venture the thought that like many of the sibling relationships throughout the Bible,  it in many ways might reflect the dynamics of the relationship between Jesus and Satan. The child who is welling to do the Will and bidding of the Parent and the other who chooses to not!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9B176 Safari/7534.48.3','',1518,0),(1534,6296,'David Henson','bluegrassrambling@gmail.com','','24.42.177.57','2012-04-30 19:00:55','2012-05-01 02:00:55','That is certainly an interesting thought.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.55.3 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.5 Safari/534.55.3','',1533,31),(1535,6296,'Joseph','joseph@deruvophotography.com','','68.198.103.66','2012-04-30 19:07:08','2012-05-01 02:07:08','My thought Intresting? \r\nNo! \r\nRather I believe it to be a very Intresting God :-)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9B176 Safari/7534.48.3','',1534,0),(1536,6296,'Ulrich','vomhagen@gmx.net','','198.166.214.5','2012-05-01 05:36:42','2012-05-01 12:36:42','Your earlier reply got me thinking over night and talking this morning. \r\nYou referred to the notion of theosis and wrote: \"I thought the point of the Chistian life was to become more and more like God.\" Well, which God? The father, the son, or the Holy Spirit, or all together? That\'s the issue. The problem is that many Christians including me use God and the father in an inter-exchangeable fashion. So, my reference was to God the Father and Lucifer’s aka our attempt to replace him. When I referred to the Holy Spirit as a counter-power to Satan then out of an economical perspective on the Trinity where there is a hierarchy and the Father is at its top. I guess there are other interpretations of the Trinity especially for Evangelicals like the Pentecostals. These differences might be the reason for many of the misunderstandings among today’s Christians. \r\nMost importantly, however it should be emphasized that Christianity needs to understand that the victory of God over fear, sin and death, accomplished in the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus is the significant development from Old to New Testament. The holy life of a Christian, given in Jesus Christ to the believer through the Holy Spirit, is expressed through the struggles of this life, increasing in the experience of knowledge of God, and consummated in the resurrection of the believer. Well, I might be preaching to the choir – like so often. I cannot wait for your deconstruction of Trinity.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.8) Gecko/20100722 Firefox/3.6.8 ( .NET CLR 3.5.30729)','',1531,0),(1537,6296,'tom lynch','lynch.gerard@yahoo.com','','69.171.160.15','2012-05-01 07:09:38','2012-05-01 14:09:38','It might be telling that this article evoked (provoked?) the most comments I have seen in such a short time. \r\nI see a lot more damage coming from this belief of Satan as the tempter and deceiver than has been thus far mentioned. Putting the \"real\" problem outside of us, and also as a supernatural force of great influence, there is no descent into hell, the necessary suffering that comes with opening, truly opening, to sanctification: confronting our character defects, shortcomings, and harm done. I feel I must be convinced that anytime I am disturbed or tempted, it has to do with a sin-causing agent buried within. Most of these \"agents\" are unhealed wounds bandaged by blame; they instead need to be cleaned by spirit. Resisting the Evil One sets me up to ignore healing in exchange for heroic battle. As fear seems a greater inducement than love, we much prefer to fight fit than to submit. It is not in \"the knowledge of good and evil\" I find the freedom of truth but in the tree of life, surrendering to Christ. And that is not for the strength to resist but to persist in healing grace.\r\nSatan makes us, in a way, a perpetual victim. In spirit and truth, there are no victims.\r\n\r\nThank you for this article, David, it is a blessing. It is curious that this has been on my mind lately. Paul writes that the angels of darkness must disguise themselves as the angels of light.  Such an \"angel of light\" is my survival: of image, sanctity, righteousness, mortal being, financial security, reputation, control, certainty, and a host of other things. All this must be surrendered.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(1538,6384,'Pam Hogeweide','pamhogeweide@gmail.com','http://www.pamhogeweide.com','71.236.152.241','2012-05-01 10:34:18','2012-05-01 17:34:18','Thanks for this great report Alise.  I know some of the folks involved with this conference and Dan had hoped I was able to travel to it. Too far from my Oregon home!\r\n\r\nI look forward to part two!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.162 Safari/535.19','',0,0),(1539,6296,'David Henson','bluegrassrambling@gmail.com','','24.42.177.57','2012-05-01 11:42:32','2012-05-01 18:42:32','I know this is going to be an ironic statement, but the hierarchal view of the Trinity has been rejected by Christianity since Augustine, I believe. Not to say you couldn\'t support it from the Scriptures, which you probably could. Just not from the historic tradition. The question of \"which God\" in reference to the Trinity is equally confounding to claims to monotheism because it essentially makes the Trinity into three gods. When I say to be more like God, I am referring to God, which Christianity believes is Trinity. Maybe I\'ve misunderstood you here. The Trinity is a profound metaphor for understanding God, not necessarily a literal reality (IMO). But more on that in a different post!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.55.3 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.5 Safari/534.55.3','',1536,31),(1540,6296,'Rich Goulette','richard.goulette@gmail.com','','69.28.149.29','2012-05-01 11:47:56','2012-05-01 18:47:56','David, \r\n\r\nMy understanding of a dualistic view is two opposing forces(light and darkness, good and evil, etc., ala Zoarastrianism, Manicheism, et. al) in eternity going at it.  I think it\'s pretty clear that God is creator (transcendent and uncaused) and Satan is not (forced immanence after the rebellion and created) and Scripture says he will be defeated.  Truly, though, even though Jesus\' victory over death on the cross still leaves us with pain and suffering in this present world, most Christ-followers I know attribute this pain and suffering to The World, our flesh, and Satan, with Satan being just one of the problems that lead us astray from following Christ to the fullest.  So yes, \"the blood is on our hands,\" we long to please ourselves, gratify these things, and we want to get ahead and desire the temporal pleasures this world has to offer.  And their are days when we\'re leaving Church and snap back in anger at our children or flip of someone who cuts us off, just as we\'re leaving the parking lot!  (influence of the accuser)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.162 Safari/535.19','',0,0),(1541,6296,'Ulrich','vomhagen@gmx.net','','198.166.214.5','2012-05-01 12:14:46','2012-05-01 19:14:46','In the Western tradition Anglicans, Lutherans, and Roman Catholics follow the hierarchical concept of Trinity. Each person has different roles within the Godhead and each has different roles in relationship to the world, but it is obvious and I actually think the old traditional perception that it was not the Son who sent the Father and it is not said that the Son or the Holy Spirit chose us, predestined us, and gave us to the Father. I don\'t mean to sound smart. \r\nMaybe your denominational tradition emphasizes the teaching concerning the Trinity that all three persons within the Godhead are equal in nature, essence, and attributes. It would be interesting how the economical and the ontological concept of Trinity result in different understanding of Christianity.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.8) Gecko/20100722 Firefox/3.6.8 ( .NET CLR 3.5.30729)','',1539,0),(1542,6384,'Jim Henderson','jim@jimhendersonpresents.com','','64.134.130.20','2012-05-01 12:43:31','2012-05-01 19:43:31','I noticed you working hard in the back of the room. Now I know what you were doing:-) \r\n\r\nThanks Alise, this will be very helpful for my friends to read so they can \"get\" what we were all up to in Chicagoland last weekend',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.55.3 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.5 Safari/534.55.3','',0,0),(1543,6384,'Cindy Holman','gregcindyholman@comcast.net','http://cindyholman.com','24.16.226.217','2012-05-01 12:48:58','2012-05-01 19:48:58','Great job, Alise!  Looking forward to hearing more!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.165 Safari/535.19','',0,0),(1544,6384,'Elizabeth Chapin','elizabeth@chapin.com','http://chickchaotic.wordpress.com/','24.17.62.30','2012-05-01 12:50:23','2012-05-01 19:50:23','I couldn\'t agree more, \"Problems arise when there is dishonesty.\" Some of my deepest cross-gender friendships arose out of such honesty - there came a point when we had to discuss our attraction and decide what to do about it. Such honesty led to deeper friendship. Wish I could have been at the gathering...',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:11.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/11.0','',0,0),(1545,6384,'John H. Armstrong','JohnA1949@gmail.com','','71.194.114.7','2012-05-01 12:58:05','2012-05-01 19:58:05','I concur with Jim Henderson. This is a wonderfully descriptive account of our 24-hour conference in Chicago. I was pleased to share in it and to learn and grow by being a part of a relational gathering focused on what it really means to form deep friendships with brothers and sisters in Christ. \r\n\r\nLooking forward to the next part of your report. Bravo!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_3) AppleWebKit/534.55.3 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.5 Safari/534.55.3','',0,0),(1546,6384,'Doreen Mannion','damannion@yahoo.com','','208.81.184.4','2012-05-01 13:15:21','2012-05-01 20:15:21','Thanks so much for capturing this, Alise.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; .NET4.0C; InfoPath.3; MS-RTC LM 8)','',0,0),(1547,6296,'David Henson','bluegrassrambling@gmail.com','','24.42.177.57','2012-05-01 14:59:28','2012-05-01 21:59:28','The flow of our conversation about hierarchy within the Trinity here seems to imply a certain subordinationism which was condemned in the 4th century (Arius) and is a primary reason the Nicene Creed was formed. Roman Catholics, Lutherans and Anglicans do not subscribe to a subordinated view of the Holy Spirit and Son. Now, if you want to say their are different functions, then sure. But when we pair the Holy Spirit as a counterbalance to Satan we are speaking of the Holy Spirit as \"God from God, in essence a direct rival being to God. \r\n\r\nOf course now we\'re back to the filioque controversy I suppose.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.55.3 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.5 Safari/534.55.3','',1536,31),(1548,6296,'David Henson','bluegrassrambling@gmail.com','','24.42.177.57','2012-05-01 15:08:39','2012-05-01 22:08:39','Also, wasn\'t it Jesus who said we are to be perfect as his heavenly Father is perfect and that he and the Father are one? \r\n\r\nI\'m waiting for someone to point out the irony of us arguing the orthodox roles of the Trinity on a post which denies the existence of a literal Satan! :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.55.3 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.5 Safari/534.55.3','',1536,31),(1549,6296,'joseph','joseph@deruvophotography.com','','68.198.103.66','2012-05-01 15:38:35','2012-05-01 22:38:35','You will forgive me for commenting in the face of all those that are so learned.\r\nBut I will Trust that God reveals Himself to all.\r\nIt is the deception of Satan himself to attribute any power to him, he possess no power other than that which one surrenders to him!\r\nHis power is in his lies and deception, temptation it\'s self but no real power.\r\nAnd as far as all the discussion of the Trinity I believe it is missing the point\r\nIt was God\'s desire and the Prayer of Christ himself that we should all be One as God The Father and he were One.\r\nIt is not a Trinity but an Infinity that we should be working towards\r\nThe Oneness that we attribute to the Trinity is available to all through the Perfecting Love of Christ.\r\nThis is the relationship that God seeks from us all and that He had created us for.\r\nGod Bless\r\nJoseph',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_3) AppleWebKit/534.55.3 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.5 Safari/534.55.3','',1548,0),(1550,6384,'Sheila Brennan','sbrennan1984@comcast.net','','24.12.230.5','2012-05-01 16:09:12','2012-05-01 23:09:12','Great job, Alise! Thank you for joining us.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',0,0);
