-- Table structure for table `wp_comments`
--

CREATE TABLE `wp_comments` (
  `comment_ID` bigint(20) unsigned NOT NULL auto_increment,
  `comment_post_ID` bigint(20) unsigned NOT NULL default '0',
  `comment_author` tinytext NOT NULL,
  `comment_author_email` varchar(100) NOT NULL default '',
  `comment_author_url` varchar(200) NOT NULL default '',
  `comment_author_IP` varchar(100) NOT NULL default '',
  `comment_date` datetime NOT NULL default '0000-00-00 00:00:00',
  `comment_date_gmt` datetime NOT NULL default '0000-00-00 00:00:00',
  `comment_content` text NOT NULL,
  `comment_karma` int(11) NOT NULL default '0',
  `comment_approved` varchar(20) NOT NULL default '1',
  `comment_agent` varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
  `comment_type` varchar(20) NOT NULL default '',
  `comment_parent` bigint(20) unsigned NOT NULL default '0',
  `user_id` bigint(20) unsigned NOT NULL default '0',
  PRIMARY KEY  (`comment_ID`),
  KEY `comment_post_ID` (`comment_post_ID`),
  KEY `comment_approved_date_gmt` (`comment_approved`,`comment_date_gmt`),
  KEY `comment_date_gmt` (`comment_date_gmt`),
  KEY `comment_parent` (`comment_parent`),
  KEY `comment_author_email` (`comment_author_email`(10))
) ENGINE=MyISAM AUTO_INCREMENT=5101 DEFAULT CHARSET=utf8;

--
-- Dumping data for table `wp_comments`
--

INSERT INTO `wp_comments` VALUES (385,2001,'Morgan Guyton','maguyton@gmail.com','http://morganguyton.wordpress.com','173.73.75.39','2011-11-17 17:48:37','2011-11-18 01:48:37','Brokenness is chosen-ness. At least that\'s what I\'ve had to tell myself. I think Henri Nouwen said something like that. I feel like Jesus\' call to take up our crosses and follow Him is not merely about suffering but about not hiding our shame since He put himself through shame.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,57),(256,1627,'Rod Fry','rodmydancat@hotmail.com','','201.137.137.121','2011-11-04 17:41:19','2011-11-05 00:41:19','Hi Bill,\r\n\r\nYour Christian background resembles my own in many ways, baptized at 11 with three good friends, went through a time of spiritual fog during college, and found my way again shortly afterwards.  Although I am 20 years (maybe a little less) older than you, I have done my best to keep up with the pop Christian writers of our time, the right-leaning Driscolls and the left-leaning McLarens.  \r\n\r\nBack in the day, one still had a notion of what the social-gospel debate was all about in the early 20th century, and conservative evangelicalism was still wary of anything that might be considered \"watering down the gospel\", among these suspect activities, well, almost anything that didn\'t include a sermon full of biblical texts.  Oh, and bands in the church were almost unheard of.  \r\n\r\nRob Bell resonated with me, as well as with so many others, when he talked about living for the here and now, and not just for a sort of escapism heaven.  I liked his emphasis on social activism, because it was missing for so long.  But now, well, I wonder if he and others haven\'t gone a bit too far with it all.  I long to here more talk about plain \'ol discipleship, real community living and yes, changed lives.  Worship talk has become a bit mushy.  An intimate God is great, but what about a transcendent One.  Neil Cole has filled in a lot of those gaps for me.  He is nothing if not practical, and in a fun way.\r\n\r\nRecently I have discovered Timothy Keller, who seems to balance the two...an unapologetic adherence to traditional Christian theology, with a keen sensitivity to his urban, \"ironic\" New York City audience.  I\'m reading everything I can get my hands on (or downloaded into my Kindle, which just locked up, tragedy of tragedies for someone living overseas!).\r\n\r\nBut regarding your question...and at the risk of seeming too simplistic...I think young people are (still) primarily personally impacted in two ways: by people who they are convinced love them (community) and  2.  certain circumstances that bring out the creation/fall/redemption narrative and makes it relevant and personal in their lives.  Often times these circumstances are very difficult and come as a result of personal failures, but not always.\r\n\r\nWe have hosted hundreds of high school and college students over the last 10 years.  Obviously there are some conversion experiences that would mirror our own.  But many have come to experience God in a deeper, personal way because of sorrow or hurt.  And some, frankly, are probably still floating, not having, as of yet, really nailed down their faith.  But all of them (us) were touched by truth in some way in the greenhouse of love.  \r\n\r\nThere\'s a lot to be said for love, and all of its wild concepts, including tolerance and brutal honesty, sincerity and rebuke, tenderness and truth-telling.  We need to embrace the warm middle of love, and the radical extremes as well...may God grant us wisdom.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,0),(58,582,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-10-23 16:23:25','2011-10-23 23:23:25','Thank you, Jonathan.  You\'re always such an encouragement to me.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',57,35),(57,582,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.54.150.243','2011-10-23 15:13:54','2011-10-23 22:13:54','You go girl. I love it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',56,1),(384,2207,'Morgan Guyton','maguyton@gmail.com','http://morganguyton.wordpress.com','173.73.75.39','2011-11-17 17:44:50','2011-11-18 01:44:50','Very interesting. I\'ll have to check out Herzog\'s book. Is his argument more that Jesus\' original meaning was subversive or that the text is polyphonic? I didn\'t have the balls to go with your interpretation in my suburban affluent congregation. I did say that being obsessively devoted to our own success, work ethic, etc, causes us to see God as an imperious slave-master rather than a dreamer who wants to share His joy with us. http://morganguyton.wordpress.com/2011/11/06/the-risk-of-dreaming-with-god/',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,57),(9,541,'Jonathan Crouch','jmcrouch@gmail.com','http://www.mysticabbey.com(LaunchNovember2011)','99.27.201.18','2011-10-20 10:29:33','2011-10-20 17:29:33','Loved the article Deanna. Have you hear of the of the term \"synchronicity?\" The famed Psychologist Carl Jung coined the term. All exists effortlessly in its own place, and everything is sequenced in synchronicity.The miraculous is continuous.The details of life mysteriously accommodate themselves spontaneously.The energy of God\'s Presence effortlessly accomplishes the seemingly impossible and brings about phenomena that the ordinary world would consider miraculous.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,24),(10,535,'Jonathan Crouch','jmcrouch@gmail.com','','99.27.201.18','2011-10-20 12:04:11','2011-10-20 19:04:11','Perhaps the idea that my value comes from what I do for others is a bit flawed. It would seem that what I do reveals what I value. I probably would not need to ask you to help the poor. You are probably already doing it. But if I ask someone else who is not helping the poor to do so, am I not selling my values based on my doings?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,24),(11,796,'Warren Aldrich','warrenaldrich@hotmail.com','','71.181.51.227','2011-10-20 14:45:31','2011-10-20 21:45:31','For me it\'s many things. \r\n It\'s the peaceful resignation and the wishing of nothing \"but the best for you\" and the speaking of sometimes it hurting because love doesn\'t last.  \r\nI also love the speaking of the glory days of summer haze.  \r\nAnd then there is her fabulous voice ringing so true.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,0),(12,796,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.54.150.243','2011-10-20 15:19:11','2011-10-20 22:19:11','Warren, your response is almost poetic.  Thanks.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',11,1),(13,535,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-10-20 17:42:39','2011-10-21 00:42:39','I don\'t think I said or implied that one\'s value as a person comes from what one does for others.  I only said that we don\'t have the option of saying, \"I\'ll help the poor, but only if I think they did nothing to cause their circumstances.\"  It\'s either help or don\'t, not help with caveats.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',10,43),(14,144,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-10-20 17:53:32','2011-10-21 00:53:32','Wow.  I can relate to that feeling of being involved to gain approval.  It\'s so easy to believe that the insulated world of church and volunteering is what life is all about.  Blessings on your journey in the wilderness!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,43),(15,535,'Seth Stinehour','sjstinehour@yahoo.com','','67.247.80.244','2011-10-20 18:02:57','2011-10-21 01:02:57','Nice article, although I do not know how you are going to make it in this business without calling somebody a name or scapegoating somebody',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_8) AppleWebKit/534.50.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.6 Safari/533.22.3','',0,0),(16,535,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-10-20 18:25:53','2011-10-21 01:25:53','Ha!  Yeah, you may be right.  I hope to avoid the name-calling, at least!  And I certainly hope someone will call <em>me</em> on it if I\'m scapegoating.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',15,43),(17,535,'New Web Magazine &laquo; unchained faith','','http://unchainedfaith.wordpress.com/2011/10/20/new-web-magazine/','72.232.7.59','2011-10-20 18:38:10','2011-10-21 01:38:10','[...] For whatever it&#8217;s worth, I&#8217;m now a volunteer writer for Provoketive Magazine.  You can check it out here.  My first article is under Front Page, in the Featured section.  Here&#8217;s an excerpt: In response to Occupy Wall Street, there is a photo going around on social media sites.  It’s a college student holding a sign which reads, I am a college senior about to graduate debt free.  I pay for all of my living expenses by working 30+ hrs a week making barely above minimum wage.  I chose a moderately priced in-state public university &amp; started saving $ for school at age 17.  I got decent grades in high school &amp; received 2 scholarships which cover 90% of my tuition.  I currently have a 3.8 GPA.  I live comfortably in a cheap… [read more] [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library','pingback',0,0),(18,535,'gadfly1974','gadfly1974@yahoo.com','http://nineyearbible.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-10-20 19:05:31','2011-10-21 02:05:31','Research has shown that Christians who actually read the whole Bible, including the entire Old Testament, become more progressive on issues of social justice.\r\n\r\nI\'ve heard Christians quote 2 Thessalonians 3:10 to argue this point, but I\'ve never seen anyone use Jesus\' own words or the Law to justify a less compassionate approach to poverty.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,0),(19,808,'gadfly1974','gadfly1974@yahoo.com','http://nineyearbible.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-10-20 19:21:31','2011-10-21 02:21:31','I believe I read this in a study from the Barna Group, although I can\'t find the source.\r\n\r\nThey found that young Christians who went to a church with a less-structured program for youth were more likely to stay involved in church and active in their faith through their 20s.\r\n\r\nKids who attended churches with stronger programs were less likely to report positive faith measures into their 20s.\r\n\r\nI see two interpretations to this study: first, that churches with strong youth programs may undermine spiritual development; second, that churches with strong youth programs draw in more fringe participants who wouldn\'t tolerate going to a church with a weaker youth group and are less likely to stick with their faith into adulthood.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,0),(20,835,'gadfly1974','gadfly1974@yahoo.com','http://nineyearbible.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-10-20 19:27:39','2011-10-21 02:27:39','What makes me uncomfortable is that we\'d miss Jesus\' condemnation of  geo-political barriers to the truth of the Good News of Jesus Christ.\r\n\r\nIf we\'re chanting because we killed a dictator, then shame on us.\r\n\r\nIf we\'re chanting because gas prices will drop, then double, triple, and quadruple shame on us.\r\n\r\nIf we\'re chanting because we can begin a process of political and spiritual reconciliation and restoration, then, \"USA, USA, USA!\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,0),(21,582,'gadfly1974','gadfly1974@yahoo.com','http://nineyearbible.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-10-20 19:30:27','2011-10-21 02:30:27','Well-said!\r\n\r\nJesus honored struggling believers: \"I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!\" Mark 9:24b',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,0),(32,888,'gadfly1974','gadfly1974@yahoo.com','http://nineyearbible.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-10-22 07:54:45','2011-10-22 14:54:45','I won\'t say who I voted for in the last election, but I will say that I expect politicians and other leaders to be consistent in their words and actions.\r\n\r\nBoth George W. Bush and Obama largely passed this test of integrity, and I respect them both, although I do not agree with every policy of either administration.\r\n\r\nAs a Christian, one important consideration for me in 2008 was comparing John McCain\'s and President Obama\'s marriages.  Which person modeled a more Christlike attitude toward his own family?\r\n\r\nA conflicting issue was that of abortion.  They are occasionally necessary, but feel uncomfortable allowing them in many situations.\r\n\r\nSo although I don\'t agree with everything our President stands for, I believe he is doing the right thing by withdrawing our troops from Iraq.  I believe this attitude embraces the principle expressed in 1 Peter 2:13-14.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',31,0),(22,750,'gadfly1974','gadfly1974@yahoo.com','http://nineyearbible.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-10-20 19:44:14','2011-10-21 02:44:14','resigned\r\nashamed\r\nfrustrated\r\n\r\nbut I believe his assessment is accurate.  Credit card consumer debt is a reflection of our nation\'s refusal to be financially responsible.  Our national debt is staggering.\r\n\r\nI wonder what would happen if the world\'s economies adopted the Bible\'s concept of a Year of Jubilee in which all debts are erased?  We\'d all be in a much healthier place, even nations like China who have enormous trade surpluses.\r\n\r\nIt does no good to have the greatest economy on earth if the rest of the planet is ill and dying.  We\'re one body, many parts, economically and spiritually.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,0),(23,535,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-10-20 19:47:48','2011-10-21 02:47:48','Certainly in my own experience, closer reading of the Old Testament and Jesus\' words put me on a more progressive path.  For whatever reason, the rest of the Bible is often viewed in light of Paul\'s teachings.  It ought to be the other way around, as I think Paul himself would have intended.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',18,43),(24,822,'gadfly1974','gadfly1974@yahoo.com','http://nineyearbible.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-10-20 19:49:06','2011-10-21 02:49:06','I\'d add No Child Left Behind to your list.\r\n\r\nMillions and millions of dollars poured into a testing system which encourages cheating and test-prep in lieu of a balanced approach to education.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,0),(25,535,'Pacesetting in Action &laquo; 9-Year Bible','','http://nineyearbible.wordpress.com/2011/10/20/pacesetting-in-action/','69.170.134.165','2011-10-20 20:18:27','2011-10-21 03:18:27','[...] out her first article, Poor By Choice.    GA_googleAddAttr(&quot;AdOpt&quot;, &quot;1&quot;); GA_googleAddAttr(&quot;Origin&quot;, &quot;other&quot;); [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library','pingback',0,0),(26,541,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','67.99.198.2','2011-10-20 20:59:56','2011-10-21 03:59:56','Jonathan, I have not heard of that before, though it perfectly describes what I\'m talking about! I like what the Wikipedia entry has to say about it: \"Since meaning is a complex mental construction, subject to conscious and unconscious influence, not every correlation in the grouping of events by meaning needs to have an explanation in terms of cause and effect.\" I\'ll be reading up to see what else has been written about this concept. Fascinating!\r\n\r\nAlso, I really loved the way you phrased the rest of your comment. \"The miraculous is continuous\" and \"brings about phenomena that the ordinary world would consider miraculous\"... Sheer poetry.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',9,38),(27,783,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','67.99.198.2','2011-10-20 21:04:08','2011-10-21 04:04:08','Everything is better with bacon, which apparently includes roses!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,38),(28,796,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','67.99.198.2','2011-10-20 21:09:34','2011-10-21 04:09:34','It so beautifully captures that sickness that comes with first (or former) loves. Like a stomach ache. The memories are sweet, the feeling is sour. You want to put it behind you and let it go, but you desperately don\'t want them to forget you.\r\n\r\nIt seems to always be haunting when a stranger so eloquently puts feelings from your world into words.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,38),(29,582,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-10-21 05:59:31','2011-10-21 12:59:31','That verse has brought me comfort many times -- there\'s room in the flock for me, partial faith and all.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',21,35),(30,888,'gadfly1974','gadfly1974@yahoo.com','http://nineyearbible.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-10-21 14:13:39','2011-10-21 21:13:39','Finally! It\'s a good decision because it is consistent with his original position when he was campaigning.\r\n\r\nI find it easier to trust a person who keeps his word.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A334 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,0),(31,888,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.54.150.243','2011-10-21 14:22:32','2011-10-21 21:22:32','Did you vote for Obama? And if so, was the important to you in that process?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',30,1),(34,835,'Adam Drake','AdamDDrake@Gmail.com','http://glimpsesofgreatness.blogspot.com/','173.74.240.199','2011-10-22 20:45:25','2011-10-23 03:45:25','We should cheer for those who have been freed from oppression. And mourn that God lost another son. I don\'t believe God is willing that \"any should perish\" apart from Him. Great article.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,75),(44,1000,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.54.150.243','2011-10-23 12:21:06','2011-10-23 19:21:06','One of the thing to consider is that Mars Hill in Sacramento is actually riding the coat tails of Mars Hill.  In creating an identity, they can take advantage of the similarity that exists to suggest maybe they are similar.  It\'s the responsibility of the creative designer to think about things like this, so when they are that similar, it gives me pause.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',0,1),(43,888,'Jenny','delesmuses@gmail.com','http://delesmuses.blogspot.com/','76.255.238.26','2011-10-23 12:19:13','2011-10-23 19:19:13','I think he should\'ve ended it when he was first elected. Now it just seems like a way of going into the next election saying that he kept his campaign promise.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,0),(36,888,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.54.150.243','2011-10-22 23:56:54','2011-10-23 06:56:54','I understand your reticence to reveal who you voted for.  I chose to vote for Obama and was very vocal about it.  And then after he was elected I felt the sting of the criticism he was receiving.  I often felt like people want him to fail.  But he accomplished a lot.  And this is one of those things, like DADT he came through on.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',32,1),(37,1000,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-10-23 11:37:37','2011-10-23 18:37:37','Here\'s some clarification from Driscoll\'s Mars Hill: \r\n\r\nhttp://blog.marshill.com/2011/10/22/clarification-on-some-rumors-that-have-been-on-some-blogs/\r\n\r\nThis is a weird situation. On one hand, people have a right to defend their intellectual property. Just because they are churches doesn\'t make copying any better, not does it exempt Mars Hill from being able to protect that.\r\n\r\nAccording to the link above they do acknowledge that they should have made a phone call first to discuss before sending a cease and desist, but I think the rest of this story is being overblown. It was just a cease and desist. They haven\'t dragged them publicly through years of court hearings, or sued for a crazy amount of money, etc.\r\n\r\nWould people be as upset if Rob Bell was doing the same thing? I feel like they would just relatively dismiss the whole situation. Yes, Mars Hill\'s administration probably could have handled it slightly better, but there\'s no reason for anyone to jump down Mark Driscoll\'s (considering he\'s probably not responsible) back about this.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,38),(38,1000,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.54.150.243','2011-10-23 11:43:08','2011-10-23 18:43:08','Deanna, I tend to agree with you.  When I first read the post it seemed callous.  But when I saw the two logos I had to think twice.  I have spent close to 20 years in marketing and they are very similar.  It\'s one of those things that unfortunately is coming to bite Mars Hill in the butt.  When they have a legitimate claim, they are not just dealing with the claim but all the ill will they\'ve created over time.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',37,1),(39,1000,'Jeremy Myers','jmyers@tillhecomes.org','http://www.tillhecomes.org','206.138.130.2','2011-10-23 11:59:04','2011-10-23 18:59:04','I think they are different enough that Mars Hill does not have a case. \r\n\r\nBut they ruined their \"case\" long before they cent the cease and desist letter. \r\n\r\nI am thinking of starting a church called Mars Hill New York, and creating a similar logo just to make that point.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,0),(40,1000,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.54.150.243','2011-10-23 12:04:36','2011-10-23 19:04:36','Jeremy, in cases like this it comes down to infringement.  How much is the property being infringed upon?  The problem is there are not just one but three Mars Hill\'s in the Sacramento churches network.  And the logos having a striking similarity.  I appreciate Marsh Hill (Seattle) acknowledging they made a mistake in not calling first.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',39,1),(41,1000,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.54.150.243','2011-10-23 12:04:57','2011-10-23 19:04:57','And Jeremy, what would you hope to accomplish with you new venture?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',39,1),(42,1000,'Jenny','delesmuses@gmail.com','http://delesmuses.blogspot.com/','76.255.238.26','2011-10-23 12:14:44','2011-10-23 19:14:44','I don\'t think Driscoll has a case. Is he going to go after every little Bible study or small group that calls itself \"Mars Hill\"?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,0),(45,926,'Mmmmm&#8230;Bacon. I Mean, Peanut Butter &laquo; The Fallen Pastor','','http://fallenpastor.wordpress.com/2011/10/23/mmmmm-bacon-i-mean-peanut-butter/','72.232.7.40','2011-10-23 12:21:40','2011-10-23 19:21:40','[...] out the full text at Provoketive.    LD_AddCustomAttr(&quot;AdOpt&quot;, &quot;1&quot;); LD_AddCustomAttr(&quot;Origin&quot;, &quot;other&quot;); [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library','pingback',0,0),(46,750,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.54.150.243','2011-10-23 12:21:57','2011-10-23 19:21:57','Gadfly, I was thinking about the concept of Jubilee too.  Everyone is in debt and no one wants to be the first to admit it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',22,1),(139,1258,'Chrystal Westbrook Southwell','cwsouthwell@gmail.com','http://www.life-after-church.com','99.232.174.120','2011-10-29 11:37:43','2011-10-29 18:37:43','Melody, your comments resonate with me, too. There are many women asking the same questions and struggling with the same dilemmas. How do I remain in a community of Christ followers that doesn\'t believe in my value before God? How will this community of Christ followers ever change if women like me leave? I spent years as a bi-vocational minister. During that time, I experienced more acceptance as a woman with a voice worth hearing from my secular colleagues than from my fellow Christ-followers. I had to ask myself shouldn\'t the reverse be true? After a two-year hiatus from ministry, I\'m just now putting my toe back in the water of church involvement, and that\'s because I believe so strongly that the voice of the feminine must be part of our Christ-following communities.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,0),(47,55,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-10-23 12:28:42','2011-10-23 19:28:42','Wow! That\'s incredible! Never thought of it that way. Huh.\r\n\r\nI have something to think about for a while.\r\n\r\nGreat writing!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,38),(48,582,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-10-23 13:10:35','2011-10-23 20:10:35','\"Does God shrug and say,\r\nLet me know when you’re ready,\r\nwhen your will no longer works for you?\"\r\n\r\nThis punches me in the ribs, in a good way. Joy, I\'m so glad I had the opportunity of meeting you at OP11. I listened to what you said to Nar on the OP11 Pre-cast podcast and I was excited to hear your poetry. The things you write a really freeing. We lock ourselves into these expectations. They weight upon us and keep us from being about to truly love this wrestling faith.\r\n\r\nThank you for writing this. It\'s a truly wonderful reminder. I\'m very grateful.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,38),(49,1000,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-10-23 13:14:36','2011-10-23 20:14:36','Oh, I agree with you that they have a case with the logo. But unfortunately, in this case there is more than one question here. It\'s not just whether or not they have a case. It\'s \"if they have a case, should a church carry it out,\"  \"how could Mark do that,\" and \"why would you take another church to court?\" It\'s marketing, intellectual property, Christians, ethics, law and reactive people all in one happy mess together!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',38,38),(50,1000,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-10-23 13:19:57','2011-10-23 20:19:57','\"In creating an identity, they can take advantage of the similarity that exists to suggest maybe they are similar.\"\r\n\r\nExactly. If this were a church named the same thing but with a very different website and a logo with no resemblance to Mars Hills Seattle, this wouldn\'t be an issue. Even if unintentional, it looks purposeful. Because really, it\'s not that difficult to make an interesting, unique logo with the letter M.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',44,38),(51,926,'Victoria Cooper','vika.99@gmail.com','','99.42.106.141','2011-10-23 13:21:50','2011-10-23 20:21:50','LOL but I hear PB prices are gonna start soaring :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,0),(52,926,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-10-23 13:23:54','2011-10-23 20:23:54','Haha, that\'s awesome. While I love bacon as much as the next person, I\'m with Team Peanut Butter. It\'s a great snack, has lots of protein, and is all around delicious. To resist eating those rice crispy bars in the lunch room at work I took a small peanut butter jar and a spoon and just ate that over the course of a couple of weeks. It might be a problem, but it\'s a delicious problem!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,38),(53,750,'Drew','nowan@comcast.net','','70.184.164.222','2011-10-23 14:10:11','2011-10-23 21:10:11','While the economy is a major issue, and the state of several world economies are something to be taken seriously, claiming that the US Economy is \"owned by China\" is simply not true. It\'s been reported again, again, and again and apparently no one fact checks it anymore. America owes the most money to Americans. We own our own economy.\r\n\r\nThe issue of national debt is important, but let\'s not misrepresent and scare people more than they\'ve already been. The China Boogeyman and the idea that the running a nation is like running your personal finances (complete with credit card metaphors) obscure how an an economic system works, and shifts the blame so we spend less time on it.\r\n\r\nSource: http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/21/who-owns-america-hint-its-not-china/',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_8) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,0),(54,750,'Drew','nowan@comcast.net','','70.184.164.222','2011-10-23 14:22:14','2011-10-23 21:22:14','And, for what it\'s worth, China depends a lot more on the USA than the USA does on China. Source: http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/18/china-growth-debt-currency-yuan-climate-markets-economy-myths_4.html',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_8) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',53,0),(55,750,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.54.150.243','2011-10-23 14:25:38','2011-10-23 21:25:38','Thanks Drew.  This is exactly why we have these conversations, to learn and grow.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',53,1),(56,582,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-10-23 14:34:18','2011-10-23 21:34:18','If connecting with God was conditional on me having complete faith, a willingness to do God\'s will, renouncement of all my sins......I would still be lost without God.  I might very well be permantently lost without God.\r\n\r\nGod knew I was going to be like this when He/She made me, yet didn\'t consider me a mistake.  God knows my struggles to \"get the deal\" like the people I consider \"saints\".  And yet God came looking for me -- the one sheep who didn\'t make it home, the one who would never have made it home unless a shepherd who cared enough about me came looking.  If I was God, I would have been content with the 99.  What a success percentage!  And yet God took the trouble to find the problem child, hang with me until I was ready to listen.  I will be eternally grateful.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',48,35),(59,582,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-10-23 16:44:58','2011-10-23 23:44:58','I always understood the \"I will spit you out of my mouth\" passage to mean that if I was \"lukewarm\" (i.e. unsure about God and faith) that I would be rendered useless to God\'s desires and needs. In my mind God was just a proctor for a test and he would flunk me if I got the essay wrong.\r\n\r\nBut if God flew away from me the moment I needed to work on figuring out the questions, and he/she wasn\'t there for me on the other side when I got back... Was this really a relationship in the first place?\r\n\r\nI\'ve been reading Peter Rollin\'s \"How (Not) to Speak of God\" and there is a whole section talking about how doubt is where faith is born.\r\n\r\nAll I have is relief.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',56,38),(60,55,'John Martinez','John@thedistillerychurch.org','http://indiefaith.org','74.67.52.50','2011-10-23 16:47:14','2011-10-23 23:47:14','Thanks Deanna!  Glad it made you think.  :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',47,4),(61,541,'John Martinez','John@thedistillerychurch.org','http://indiefaith.org','74.67.52.50','2011-10-23 17:22:21','2011-10-24 00:22:21','Deanna,\r\nMoving post.  I too have wondered such things out loud and with community.  Tonight out topic at the Distillery was on accepting doubt.  So this of course is right on topic with me.  \r\n\r\nThe truth?  We are all guessing most of the time right?  However, I think that this kind of conversation from God is typically the most verifiable clue of God\'s existence.  Most of us cannot count on the audible voice of God chiming in through loud speakers in our bedrooms at night.  However, I have often heard God through a song, or through the characteristic chatter of my friends or loved ones.  God speaks.  we know this.  And I think this is how.  :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,4),(62,926,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.31.230','2011-10-23 17:39:29','2011-10-24 00:39:29','I will now be hoarding peanut butter.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',51,12),(63,926,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.31.230','2011-10-23 17:40:04','2011-10-24 00:40:04','A couple of weeks? I\'ll down that in three days. But I like your spirit, Deanna.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',52,12),(64,1000,'John Martinez','John@thedistillerychurch.org','http://indiefaith.org','74.67.52.50','2011-10-23 17:44:27','2011-10-24 00:44:27','I\'m sorry, I can see this from a legal standpoint and all.  But, what harm does it do?  Seriously is anyone in Sacramento going to this church believing that it is somehow a part of the Seattle church when there are literally hundreds of Acts 29 options out there? \r\n\r\nThis just seems petty to me.  How many \"First Baptist Church\"es are there out there, and does anyone believe that they are all affiliated?  If someone were to ask the pastor of the Sacramento church if they are affiliated with the church in Seattle what would he say?  Probably \"hell-to-the-no.\"\r\n\r\nI am thinking the Seattle church could be named \"Mark Hill\" and just avoid a lawsuit all together in the future.  :)  This is the sort of thing that happens to churches when they are forced into the business model and begin to see other churches as \"competition\" and not just as part of the body of Christ.  \r\n\r\nNow if they decided to rename the Senior Pastor in Sacramento Mark Driscoll and sold little Mark Driscoll dolls in his image, making some huge sort of profit off of his masculine kung-fu-Jesus-grip, then they might have a case.  But come on, seriously?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',44,4),(65,906,'John Martinez','John@thedistillerychurch.org','http://indiefaith.org','74.67.52.50','2011-10-23 18:16:02','2011-10-24 01:16:02','\"... sometimes I smirk and think that God gave me exactly what I asked for: to go all the way. \"   Sounds like you went all the way out the back door there.  :)  So God gave you what you wanted.   Just kidding.\r\n\r\nThese are wonderful questions and observations.  I too have had an experience with church leadership that was hard and difficult to interpret as far as the end-meaning.  What I can say ultimately was that regardless of what happened and how others reacted, be it poorly or not, the greatest gift was in what I learned through the experience.  \r\n\r\nYou could say that \"God\" taught me these things, or you could say i learned a lot from this experience with or without God, but ultimately I did change.  I did grow up a bit, and I did realize that the thing I thought I really wanted the most, I didn\'t really want.  It brought me to a better place.  \r\n\r\nSo to answer your questions, of course I create God in my own image on a regular basis.  I Am quite good at it, by the way, and then something comes along and happens to me or someone I love, and God ruins my image of him with his own and I have to change the way I think about God-- I have to redefine who God is in my mind.  So my God is a conglomeration of my own caricatures, my own image and the reality that is God as revealed to me on a recurring basis.\r\n\r\nAs far as does God play the evil genie?  For me, I don\'t like to imagine that God is that way.   I think it comes off as a bit vindictive, and if I cannot trust God to at least be genuine with me, then I don\'t know that I can trust God.  But I think that definitely we are real good at screwing up things entirely on our own.  And of course:\r\n\r\n\"Where two or more are gathered in my name...  there are twice as many F#%ked up situations, mistakes, damage done by good intentions and so forth....\" (Book of Me 1:9)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,4),(66,926,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-10-23 18:31:38','2011-10-24 01:31:38','That\'s why I bought a larger jar than normal for both me and my hubby. :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',51,38),(67,926,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-10-23 18:32:47','2011-10-24 01:32:47','Well... At best a couple of weeks! Also depends on how much I graze and whether or not I have any other interesting snacks around the house. ;)\r\n\r\nPeanut-butter kindred spirits, unite!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',63,38),(68,55,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-10-23 18:48:36','2011-10-24 01:48:36','No problem! I mean... It\'s just so interesting to think about how in any of his major moments (and probably small moments) he could have had only a slightly different reaction and it would have rendered his mission useless. \r\n\r\nAlso: fascinating! So interesting how you parallel that with peer-pressure, gender differences, Pharisees... I guess I didn\'t really know what was going on with this parable until the end was written different.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',60,38),(69,1013,'Caedmon Michael','facedown@mac.com','http://caedmonmichael.net','24.20.76.209','2011-10-23 22:31:29','2011-10-24 05:31:29','I am a service-connected disabled veteran who no longer recites the Pledge of Allegiance (my allegiance is to Christ, not flag or state) or sings the Star Spangled Banner or God Bless America. Instead, I stand quietly and allow others around to do as they please without forcing the issue.\r\n\r\nI won\'t say taking part in any of the above is wrong. The Spirit has not guided my conscience to attempt to change others. I don\'t take part because something changed in me a few years ago when it dawned on me that being a child of God - living in God\'s kingdom - means I\'m not really part of this kingdom any more. Being American is a legality, but it is not my identity, my source of being, my rock of safety.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/534.51.22 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.1 Safari/534.51.22','',0,41),(70,55,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-10-24 04:41:37','2011-10-24 11:41:37','John, even though the disciples were victims of the Pharisee\'s impossibly perfect rules and standards, they were all products of their culture.  I think of the disciples\' reaction to the woman at the well.  They tried to keep children at arms\' length from Jesus.  They never would have dreamed of helping the Samaritan.\r\n\r\nYes, Jesus was killed by his culture.  But the culture was also killing compassion and dignity inside everyone.  If Jesus had been no different from the prevailing religious standards and socially acceptable behavior, there would have no reason for him to have come to earth at all.  No one would have noticed him.  No one would have cared, or found out how much God cares about us. No one\'s life would have ever been transformed by God\'s radical, saving grace.\r\n\r\nI\'m also reminded by your parable how very easy it is for us to act/feel/be Pharisees.  I catch myself doing it all the time.  I wonder how often I\'m that judgmental and don\'t even notice.  Thank you for what you wrote.  It made me think.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,35),(71,906,'Brooke Eikenberry','brooke.eikenberry@gmail.com','http://30somethingcrisis.tumblr.com/','65.190.93.23','2011-10-24 05:28:04','2011-10-24 12:28:04','John,\n\nI completely agree that unsavory experiences (be it with church leadership or otherwise) can definitely be a great opportunity for growth and perhaps a little education at the School of Hard Knocks. And it doesn\'t matter if it was out of God\'s will, in His will, bad timing, poor listening, immaturity, or other people, because ALL things work to the good of those who love Christ. I certainly learned a lot.... one important thing being to glean the good from the bad and not dump the whole lot from a bad experience. It was pretty tempting at first to call the whole 7 years a wash!\n\nI also agree that we need to continually be \"redefining\" God--- or coming to a better knowledge of Him, as we work through how we imagine Him to be. Hopefully we come a little closer everyday. Thank you so much for your honesty and candor!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',65,48),(72,55,'John Martinez','John@thedistillerychurch.org','http://indiefaith.org','74.67.52.50','2011-10-24 06:16:34','2011-10-24 13:16:34','Thanks Joy for this awesome response to my post.  Yes, Yes and Yes!  :)  That is the point isn\'t it?  When we say things like \"I want to be like Jesus,\" we have to first realize who Jesus actually was, but also we have to realize that many times it is a choice for death -- if not literal than at the very least a social kind of death.  :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',70,4),(73,55,'John Martinez','John@thedistillerychurch.org','http://indiefaith.org','74.67.52.50','2011-10-24 06:17:50','2011-10-24 13:17:50','Yeah, it starts out sort of subtle I agree, but then it gets pretty irritating if you ask me. lol',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',68,4),(74,906,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','68.73.44.130','2011-10-24 10:40:56','2011-10-24 17:40:56','Gee. That would feel like the punchline of a joke. Give up a dream and think you\'re going to commit to this great ministry, and it turns out to be a toxic, boring environment. Do you think the bartering (\"Fine, I\'ll give up my dream if you give me this super awesome ministry?\") was what caused the genie/bottle situation? That frustrates me. It seems like there are so many people who are yelling about how they need workers, and then when you jump in it\'s utterly terrible for you. Of course people pervert the good things that are supposed to come with ministry... But maybe God didn\'t want you in ministry the whole time. (Which actually gives me a little bit of hope that if I\'m not devoting myself for free to a non-profit I\'m not disobeying God.)\r\n\r\nOne of my favorite bloggers, John Shore, wrote in one of his posts that we view God a lot like our parents. So my god is a legalistic, over-reactive entity. He\'s waiting every moment to see if I choose my will (i.e. the things I love) over going to Africa. The idea of a loving God doesn\'t align with the way I have always thought of him, so when I found a weird, quirky, weary, thought-provoking, questioning community of friends... When they were so life-giving and I suddenly felt free to be myself in an ACTUAL relationship with this deity... I don\'t know. I kind of freaked out about it. It gives me a LOT of hope and it really exposes the projected version of God that I carry around with me.\r\n\r\nI know that only sort of answers your question, but these were the thoughts that came to me while reading your post. Also: love your writing style! You\'re very funny and I feel like we could be friends from the way you talk. Great post!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.186 Safari/535.1','',0,38),(75,1013,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','68.73.44.130','2011-10-24 10:53:21','2011-10-24 17:53:21','To answer your question: I think we\'re all better for it.\r\n\r\nWhile I love living in this country and am thankful and admire what troops from yesterday and today are willing to do to protect us, I think when it comes to the pledge and the anthem it can get a little bit ethnocentric feeling. \r\n\r\nPatriotism is not a bad thing inherently. It is used to bind us together and give us a common ground and infuse a sense of teamwork. However, occasionally it can get a little too \"This is America! This is the greatest country on earth! We\'re not gonna let foreign speakers take over our country!\" sometimes. Over-patriotism can be very harmful and can grow blinders around our eyes. Sometimes we become a little isolated here in our minds and forget the whole human community around the rest of the world that is just like us.\r\n\r\nSo, if the pledge and the national anthem promote a feeling of superiority, that\'s when I think it\'s damaging. If it\'s just something you say before school or a sports game, something that makes you feel closer to your community and your sense of general purpose, it\'s no harm and it\'s actually a good thing. There is nothing wrong with feeling a strong connection to your country. That\'s what it\'s supposed to do: bond you to your home. But if it\'s perverted and turned into an excuse to discriminate, shove people out, kill innocent people, or cause us to think we\'re the best island in the world and everyone else sucks, that\'s when there is danger in it.\r\n\r\nIt comes down to whether or not to use it to create a sense of community or a sense of  superiority. It\'s all about what you make it and what it means to you and how it\'s used.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.186 Safari/535.1','',69,38),(76,1013,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','68.73.44.130','2011-10-24 11:49:07','2011-10-24 18:49:07','I\'ll never forget when I visited The Netherlands a few years back. I had just stepped out of a museum in Amsterdam when my travel companion and I ended up talking to a couple of natives. They expressed to us how brash America can come off to the rest of the world. One of them said \"They think they are so much better than the rest of the world, when they don\'t realize how young they are. There are places much older and they completely ignore the beauty and history of other places. They just think they\'re the best.\"\r\n\r\nNow, this totally isn\'t the fault of the pledge or the anthem. But I think this whole issue just touches on a much deeper issue.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.186 Safari/535.1','',0,38),(77,1013,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','68.73.44.130','2011-10-24 11:49:51','2011-10-24 18:49:51','Caedmon, I loved the way you said this: \"[...] when it dawned on me that being a child of God – living in God’s kingdom – means I’m not really part of this kingdom any more. Being American is a legality, but it is not my identity, my source of being, my rock of safety.\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.186 Safari/535.1','',69,38),(78,1000,'Danielle Shroyer','danielle@journeydallas.com','http://www.danielleshroyer.com','108.86.213.236','2011-10-24 11:51:03','2011-10-24 18:51:03','Jonathan, if you hadn\'t seen it, there\'s an update to the story from the pastor of MH Sacramento here:  http://www.scotthagan.net/side-effects/ \r\n\r\nMH Sacramento was not stealing anything from MH Seattle; honestly one of the most humorous things to me is that if they were copying anybody, it was MH Grand Rapids. Anyway, it\'s good news that they seem to have worked it out without legal involvement.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.102 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(79,1000,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.207.238','2011-10-24 11:57:07','2011-10-24 18:57:07','Danielle, I did see the post from your post.  I\'m glad it was resolved.  Unfortunately bad PR in this case is still bad PR.  Mars Hill (Seattle) needs to wake up and stop being the bully.  I think they had a case, but they just need to listen to how the go about it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',78,1),(80,1000,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.207.238','2011-10-24 11:58:41','2011-10-24 18:58:41','And, the logos for Mars Hill (Grand Rapids) and Sacramento don\'t look anything alike.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',78,1),(81,1013,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.207.238','2011-10-24 12:39:40','2011-10-24 19:39:40','I like the larger sense of identity too.  I\'ve chosen not to pledge my allegiance to the US, but instead to participate as a citizen within the US. I respect it but don\'t live by it. I honor the service of those who do, but think there is a bigger and more meaningful story to hold onto: Kingdom.\r\n\r\nI recently sat down during a singing of the national anthem at a hockey game.  The gentleman behind me was visibly disturbed and said, \"The really bugged me.  Why did you do that.\" I explained to him my rationale, but as a man in his sixties and a veteran, he didn\'t like it.  I get that.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',69,1),(82,906,'Brooke Eikenberry','brooke.eikenberry@gmail.com','http://30somethingcrisis.tumblr.com/','65.190.93.23','2011-10-24 14:53:27','2011-10-24 21:53:27','I\'m not sure the giving up going to grad school in and of itself was the catalyst (I\'m considering going back to grad school when both my kids are in school, but not in the same field. So, at this point, I don\'t mind missing that particular run of grad school). I think it might have been that PLUS thinking that being involved with the ministry was God\'s will. Since I tend to do things all the way or not at all... well, we see how that went down. \n\nYou do make a good point that people can pervert the good things that should come with ministry. That\'s the fun of trying to live in a fallen world, isn\'t it? We may be doing the will of God, but others who are supposed to help us along the way may not be. Or vice versa. \n\nI also agree that one of our main ways of viewing God is through the lens of our parents. I think this applies not only to \"natural parents\", but also to \"spiritual parents\", or those that have helped us grow in our faith (sometimes the two are the same, sometimes not). I definitely have some incorrect views of God that I am in the process of \"unlearning\"....  but being able to discuss and \"talk it out\" with a community of friends who won\'t drop you as a friend or question your salvation as you work through issues is definitely helpful.\n\nThanks again for your thoughts and feedback! I appreciate it!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',74,48),(83,1109,'Drew','nowan@comcast.net','','70.184.164.222','2011-10-24 14:55:17','2011-10-24 21:55:17','I like the 2,000 dollar route. Letting student-athletes get paid based on where they end up going to school would kill college sports, at least D-I schools. You\'d end up with a bigger stratification then you have now. The big money schools--Notre Dame, USC, Ohio State, Florida, etc--would bid on the top prep talent (backed by their boosters, I\'d imagine). It would make a limited number of financially viable schools who could field competitive teams.\r\n\r\nEverybody else would fold, severely close down athletic facilities, or maybe field only a few teams in a sub-division. Football and basketball are the top 2 money earners for colleges, and if they\'re gone, or operating on a severely reduced level, it negatively effects the rest of the programs.  Also gone would be the Boise State\'s and TCU\'s of the world, it would be like watching the pro\'s; 30 teams, markets and TV deals coming into play even more then they do now, and the only hope for an upset being that your team can increase more revenue to get the top high school senior next year. Not to mention the stress that will come down from the top to win on the players. It\'s insane (and completely ridiculous at some schools) now, can you imagine what it is like when you\'re getting paid? And the only source of revenue is from what your team generates through merchandise sales, tickets, concessions. Which are all linked to the on-the-field product.\r\n\r\nI\'m not sure if a 2,000 dollar stipend will end all the problems, but at least it is a step in the right direction of acknowledging the difficulties of being a student-athlete. The idea that there compensation for a degree is enough was proven false along time ago. I knew guys at my school who would take out student loans to pay for things (and some of them got stupid, stupid things with it). So, it is a slow move in the right direction, but I\'m not sure if the NCAA will ever find a satisfactory conclusion to it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_8) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,0),(84,973,'Hannah','hannahtho@gmail.com','','66.56.1.48','2011-10-24 15:49:55','2011-10-24 22:49:55','What a brilliant comparison: recipes and poetry.  As a poet, this really resonated with me, especially since there is something very satisfying to me about finding a really good recipe, following it, and eating (and sharing) the delicious results.  But after years of trying to \"fit\" in a TDC prevalent community, I found that recipes didn\'t cut it for my spiritual life.  The first poem I wrote as (what I consider) a poet, was about why I hated poetry.  It was, looking back, more about why I was scared of poetry.  But I finally embraced that poetry, and eventually the tools of an NDC, and I\'m so glad I did.  I still enjoy a good recipe, though.  ;)\r\n\r\nThis reminds me: did I ever give you a copy of my self-published poetry chapbook last year? This seems like an appropriate forum to ask.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,0),(85,1109,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.207.238','2011-10-24 17:25:59','2011-10-25 00:25:59','Drew, I would tend to disagree with your initial assessment.  Here\'s why.  As much as the schools make on the system, there is only so much money to go around, so while high profile athletes like the Scout 100 would gain the lion share, most athletes wouldn\'t make much. And it is this lion share that cause most of the problems.  I\'m also not against a cap.  But the money has to be in the 25k range to begin to have an impact.  I think this is like giving a spoonful to a starving child. It won\'t solve the original problem, which is \"mom at home needs the money and I want to look good in my sweats.\"\r\n\r\nI would also suggest that it could stimulate a superconference, something akin to a midlevel professional group of 25 or so schools that would provide a premium opportunity.  People would love to pay for that because it would attract the best players.  \r\n\r\nJust thinking out loud.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',83,1),(86,541,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-10-24 22:07:17','2011-10-25 05:07:17','Thanks, John! And that\'s awesome. I think I saw a link you posted float through my feed so I\'ll have to check it out to see how it all relates. I love it when stuff like that happens!\r\n\r\nI know we\'re probably all guessing... Which gives me hope because at least I\'m not alone or crazy, but a little less hope because there are no answers! Sometimes I just wish for a small, old man to sit at the top of a staircase I can climb in situations like these. Sometimes I just want to be told what to do, as weird as that is to say out loud. That\'s the crazy thing about free will.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',61,38),(87,897,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','198.228.226.26','2011-10-24 22:39:13','2011-10-25 05:39:13','...Where has your writing been all my life?\r\n\r\nJohn, it\'s a little bit ridiculous how much our stories sound alike. All my heart is doing is saying yes, yes, and YES to this post.\r\n\r\nI remember a friend not being allowed to tell our youth group that her and some friends were headed to Aquire the Fire and if anyone wanted to come along, they could. But she wasn\'t allowed. Why didn\'t they allow her? Essentially because the rock music might be offense and they couldn\'t put their offices stamp of approval on it. So no one went.\r\n\r\nThis is so weird. I\'m working on the last part of my Where the Church Lost Me series and it\'s on this very topic. Apparently you and I have a lot more to talk about than we thought, eh?\r\n\r\nThanks for sharing your story. Love it!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A334 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,38),(88,897,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','198.228.226.26','2011-10-24 22:40:58','2011-10-25 05:40:58','Whoops. Brain going faster than my fingers. I mean the music might be \"offensive\" and they couldn\'t put their \"official\" stamp of approval on it.  :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A334 Safari/7534.48.3','',87,38),(89,897,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.207.238','2011-10-25 08:42:43','2011-10-25 15:42:43','I remember that Rock & Roll: Devil\'s music class.  I remember him saying hard rock would cause children to go wild.  And it did. But in a good way. ;-P',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',0,1),(90,897,'John Martinez','John@thedistillerychurch.org','http://indiefaith.org','74.67.52.50','2011-10-25 09:04:47','2011-10-25 16:04:47','Ahh Deanna, you are always so gracious to me.  Thanks for the high compliments on this stuff.    I agree, we gotta hang out sometime and chit chat for sure....  When I was reading what you said about \"Acquire the Fire\" I thought about the fact that we were not allowed to even listen to \"Christian Rock\" music in youth group, because it would offend the adults.\r\n\r\nI am not talking about Rez Band or Petra or Newsboys, I am talking about Amy Grant and Michael W. Smith.  Why, you might ask?  Because it had drums in the music, and drums were \"of the devil.\"\r\n\r\nBeing the little Christian rebels that we thought we were, we would blast that stuff out of our car radios when the adults were not looking.   I took a girl to a Rez Band (a Christian Heavy metal Band) concert one time who was from my church and we told her parents it was a Christian music concert, failing to mention it was what it was, but had they known they would have forbade her from going with me. \r\n\r\nWhat a world ey?  I hear what you are saying about the official stamp of approval as well,  even when there is no \"official\" one, there was always the mere opinion of some church leaders that viciously seemed to over-ride most serious and legitimate minded individuals.  Those folks used things like gossip (in the form of prayer requests) to keep the sheep in line...',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,4),(91,897,'John Martinez','John@thedistillerychurch.org','http://indiefaith.org','74.67.52.50','2011-10-25 09:08:44','2011-10-25 16:08:44','Funny thing is the guy who taught us was actually an ex-member of the \"Earth, Wind and Fire\" touring crew.  He never gave us his personal opinion, just tossed the material at us.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',89,4),(92,144,'Pam Hogeweide','pamhogeweide@gmail.com','http://www.godmessedmeup.blogspot.com','71.236.152.241','2011-10-25 09:22:30','2011-10-25 16:22:30','Thanks Amy for your comment (for my first article posting on Provoketive at that!)\r\n\r\nI have realized in the last couple of years that i\"ve been codependent in every single church I have ever been a part of, including my current one, though I am now mindful of it and keep myself in check. I am done living a church-centered life and instead now focus on living a Christ centered life.  I think  that means living a relationship-centered life. \r\n\r\nThanks again for chiming in. Blessings on your journey as well!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,0),(93,1126,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','68.73.44.130','2011-10-25 13:58:08','2011-10-25 20:58:08','I think this is a case of the company doing what would be good for it\'s own internal purposes instead of what the customer wants. My husband and I have dropped down to just streaming.\r\n\r\nWhen the whole split company announcement came, I saw this very funny but very appropriate comic written about the whole thing:\r\n\r\nhttp://theoatmeal.com/comics/netflix',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.186 Safari/535.1','',0,38),(94,1037,'Brooke Eikenberry','brooke.eikenberry@gmail.com','http://30somethingcrisis.tumblr.com/','65.190.93.23','2011-10-25 17:04:04','2011-10-26 00:04:04','A friend of mine from college recently engaged a few of us in a Facebook conversation about 20-somethings and college-aged kids leaving the church. She wondered if part of it was a natural progression from growing from a childhood faith to a more adult, mature faith. Well, that is, a natural progression for those who actually come BACK to the faith.\r\n\r\nI never actually went through a struggle with my faith in college or my 20s. I think part of that was because I did not grow up in a Christian home where faith was pushed on me, along with lots of rules, etc, and requirements to attend church 6 days of the week. My parents brought us to a Lutheran church, but by high school, it was a Christmas and Easter kind of thing. So, when I grabbed a hold of the Faith and professed myself a believer, it meant finding rides to the non-denom church I was attending, since my parents didn\'t go. I think having to defend and think through my faith from the start (and the fact that I didn\'t really become a Christian until I was 15) kind of made the college/young adult hiatus from church less likely to happen for me.\r\n\r\nRegardless, I\'ve noticed a couple things that may perpetuate this:\r\n1. Youth Groups in middle school and high school are shallow. Much like your experience, hard questions are either met with trite answers... or worse, with derision. \r\n2. Lack of groups for 20-somethings and young adults. I think this is less of an issue in some of the larger churches, but I\'ve noticed a lack of ministry groups for this age group in a lot of the smaller community churches and mainline denominations. It seems a lot of catering goes to the newlyweds, older marrieds, and families. \r\n\r\nAnyway.... those are my thoughts! I too wonder why we can\'t \"be adults\" about discussing hard questions and \"hot button topics\". I tend to avoid arguments about those topics, because it generally boils down to name-calling. My 4-year-old can argue more effectively than that. ; )',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,48),(95,959,'Britt Azlin','Brittazlin@gmail.com','','174.254.17.83','2011-10-25 18:22:52','2011-10-26 01:22:52','Nice article Adam! Great relatable material that smacks you in the face without me realizing it right away.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_8 like Mac OS X; en_US) AppleWebKit (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile [FBAN/FBForIPhone;FBAV/4.0.2;FBBV/4020.0;FBDV/iPhone3,3;FBMD/iPhone;FBSN/iPhone OS;FBSV/4.2.8;FBSS/2; FBCR/Verizon;FBID/phone;FBLC/en_US;FBSF/2.0]','',0,0),(96,897,'Faith Crowder','califcowboy@hotmail.com','','99.47.88.114','2011-10-25 18:33:36','2011-10-26 01:33:36','I know this will most likely be ignored and you will probably throw out some literature about how you interpret the Bible from an abstract angle and don\'t take the words literally.  I just want people who might be listening to your apostasized version of religion to realize that God did not promise us an easy life, but the things that are happening in our lives right now were foretold in the Bible.  Even the fact that men would begin to change religion to fit their own perspective, to be able to do the things they want to do, to mold their religion to fit their sin filled lives, It is brought to light in the Bible with this line \"Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing\".  A pastor that would lead you away from the Holy Bible, a pastor that would not present your ONLY ticket to Heaven, is a wolf in sheep\'s clothing.  If you want to true path to Heaven, read the New Testament.  Also, I would think a long  time before choosing to listen to friends over God\'s word.  Please read the exerpt below, with just ONE example of what is wrong with this writing.   Salvation through Christ , by beleving in Him and the sacrifice He made for us and repenting your sins is your ONLY way to salvation.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1; Trident/4.0; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.04506.30; MDDC; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; BRI/2)','',0,0),(97,813,'Is Martin Luther Getting His Own Video Game? &laquo; The Fallen Pastor','','http://fallenpastor.wordpress.com/2011/10/25/is-martin-luther-getting-his-own-video-game/','72.233.104.53','2011-10-25 18:34:51','2011-10-26 01:34:51','[...] But check out my new article at Provoketive Magazine, &#8220;Video Games, Batman, and Martin Luther.&#8221; [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library','pingback',0,0),(98,959,'El oreo!!!','Adamruiz@hotmail.com','','174.254.0.158','2011-10-25 19:03:55','2011-10-26 02:03:55','Thats a good word brotha.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.3; en-us; DROIDX Build/4.5.1_57_DX5-35) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1','',0,0),(99,959,'Adam Drake','AdamDDrake@Gmail.com','http://glimpsesofgreatness.blogspot.com/','173.74.240.199','2011-10-25 19:29:03','2011-10-26 02:29:03','Thanks Britt!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',95,75),(100,959,'Adam Drake','AdamDDrake@Gmail.com','http://glimpsesofgreatness.blogspot.com/','173.74.240.199','2011-10-25 19:30:37','2011-10-26 02:30:37','Hermanos por vida!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',98,75),(101,897,'John Martinez','John@thedistillerychurch.org','http://indiefaith.org','74.67.52.50','2011-10-25 19:48:07','2011-10-26 02:48:07','Hey Faith,\r\n\r\nThanks for your insight here.  I will respond to your comments tomorrow.  Just wanted you to know I appreciate your perspective and will get back to you soon.\r\n Good night and God bless.  :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A334 Safari/7534.48.3','',96,4),(102,897,'rene diebenkorn','a.thendot@gmail.com','http://hermeme.wordpress.com','173.55.65.42','2011-10-25 19:56:20','2011-10-26 02:56:20','That \"classic people pleaser\" part was amazzzing!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.102 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(103,959,'rene diebenkorn','a.thendot@gmail.com','http://hermeme.wordpress.com','173.55.65.42','2011-10-25 19:59:39','2011-10-26 02:59:39','I never thought of the rich-man in this way! AMAZING!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.102 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(104,813,'Coenraad','coenraad@unsafechallenge.com','http://www.unsafechallenge.com','41.30.80.236','2011-10-25 23:09:49','2011-10-26 06:09:49','Great piece. This is a topic that is hotly debated within our group of friends. I like Spiderman, Batman and the lot, where some of my other friends think they are pure evil, and simply refuse to let these characters into their homes. This is something I have been thinking about for quite some time, and I love how you put it. Make sure your kids are rooted in scripture, before you engage into culture with them, and then the good things can be seen.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.102 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(105,813,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.207.238','2011-10-25 23:18:29','2011-10-26 06:18:29','Author John Fischer once shared with me a way of seeing reality that stuck with me.  He said, \"We hear the passage, \'Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.\' and we think we\'re supposed to find the things that are noble and right and such.  But what if the passage is telling us to find what is noble and right in each thing/person, to actually search for it in everything.  And when we do, we\'ll find it.\"  It rocked my world.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',0,1),(106,1103,'New Writing Venture &laquo; Preacher on the Plaza','','http://preacherontheplaza.wordpress.com/2011/10/26/new-writing-venture/','72.233.69.85','2011-10-26 10:37:05','2011-10-26 17:37:05','[...] when sleeping in on Sunday morning seems all the better for life/ work balance. . . . Read more by clicking here.    GA_googleAddAttr(&quot;AdOpt&quot;, &quot;1&quot;); GA_googleAddAttr(&quot;Origin&quot;, &quot;other&quot;); GA_googleAddAttr(&quot;LangId&quot;, [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library','pingback',0,0),(107,897,'John Martinez','John@thedistillerychurch.org','http://indiefaith.org','74.67.52.50','2011-10-26 13:36:09','2011-10-26 20:36:09','This is in response to Faith\'s comments above:  So here, goes,\r\n\r\nHey Faith,\r\nThanks again for your comments.  I am going to respond to your comments that seem specifically targeted at the subject matter I wrote about because it seems that we are not too far apart when it comes to those things.\r\n\r\nAs you may know the idea behind Provoketive Magazine is to inspire conversations that may otherwise never happen, so I am very glad to have this opportunity to reflect with you deeper on my intentions about this article.  So here we go:\r\n\r\n&gt;&gt;I know this will most likely be ignored and you will probably throw out some literature about how you interpret the Bible from an abstract angle and don’t take the words literally. \r\n\r\nWell I want you to know that I do not in fact take the words of the Bible literally, nor do I believe anyone does, even the so-called literalists.  If this were the case we would be keeping our wives in shacks away from the house when they menstruate, kissing each other each time we greet one another, killing our unruly children, etc etc etc.  So no, not literally, but I do take it seriously.  I love the Bible and I don\'t see it as an abstract work, but a very straight forward collection of stories from all over the early Christian world that has some literal texts as well as figurative texts and everything in between.  It is an invaluable source for us as Christians to reference when trying to understand the nature of God and how He has acted and with whom over centuries of history.\r\n\r\n&gt;&gt;and I just want people who might be listening to your apostasized version of religion to realize that God did not promise us an easy life, but the things that are happening in our lives right now were foretold in the Bible. \r\n\r\nHmmm, there is a lot packed in these few statements that I will try and address.  For one, you seem to think I have an APOSTATIZED version of religion, while I would argue that all religion to this day is apostasy of the original religion it was based on.  It is just a fact of life.  All things change.  Especially religion.  In fact the things you are arguing about when it comes to the only way to HEAVEN and the way you speak of salvation --all of that really only came about in the last few centuries of our faith\'s history.  Thus it is apostasy.  So I agree.\r\n\r\nAs far as God not promising us an easy life, well I completely agree with you there too, not sure what this has to do with my post.  as far as the things happening right now being foretold in the Bible, I think that is entirely possible as well, but I don\'t know anyone really qualified enough to make the call on what is prophesied for today and what might have actually already happened since the writing of those prophecies.\r\n\r\n&gt;&gt;Even the fact that men would begin to change religion to fit their own perspective, to be able to do the things they want to do, to mold their religion to fit their sin filled lives, It is brought to light in the Bible with this line “Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing”. A pastor that would lead you away from the Holy Bible, a pastor that would not present your ONLY ticket to Heaven, is a wolf in sheep’s clothing.\r\n\r\nAgain, I am not sure what this has to do with the original subject, but it might serve you to know that the pastor(s) i speak of are good Vineyard pastors who have a collective experience of over 75 years of pastoral ministry.  This conversation had nothing to do with salvation, it had to do with legalism and the way that my legalistic behaviors had turned me into a pharisee.  \r\n\r\nAs far as leading me away from the Bible, a conversation that rejects legalism and shiny exteriors as opposed to being clean on the inside is completely biblical.  Jesus himself called the pharisees out on this very issue.\r\n\r\nYou should also know that historically the church was having to compete with all sorts of compelling religions at the time of the formation of the church.  Gnosticism in fact was absorbing a huge amount of would-be Christians, and so most of Paul\'s warnings about wolf in sheep\'s clothing, etc was really about the Gnostics taking over Christianity with their works-based gnosis religion that discounted the worth of humanity, and claimed that the spirit had more value than the body.  But that is another topic and another story all together.\r\n\r\n&gt;&gt;If you want to true path to Heaven, read the New Testament. \r\n\r\nBased on my previous comments, I don\'t think we disagree that the good news is found in the New Testament and that the path to Heaven is found there, not in our clean shiny exteriors, but in how we truly live our lives.\r\n\r\n&gt;&gt;Also, I would think a long time before choosing to listen to friends over God’s word. \r\n\r\nAgain, I don\'t think we disagree on this either.  I would never choose to \"listen to my friends...\"  I however would counter my understanding of the Bible with what god is telling me through wise counsel and prayer.\r\n\r\n&gt;&gt;Please read the exerpt below, with just ONE example of what is wrong with this writing. Salvation through Christ , by beleving in Him and the sacrifice He made for us and repenting your sins is your ONLY way to salvation.\r\n\r\nDid I mention anything about the one true way to heaven or even the true way to heaven in this writing?  I don\'t think so.  Is heaven the goal though?  Are we really all just living so we can die and go to heaven?  Of course not.  Jesus certainly did not model that for us.  In fact he modeled a whole lot of other stuff that seemed much more important than some future reward.  I am not knocking heaven mind you - it sounds like a wonderful place, but I am saying that we as followers of Jesus ought to be about more than just heaven, we should be striving together as a unified body walking with Jesus to build his Kingdom here on earth, just like the prayer ask him to do.  \r\n\r\nWell, anyway after carefully reading your post I am not sure we disagree on very many things.  Again, thanks for your input and for conversing with me on this subject.  Take care.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',96,4),(108,897,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','166.205.137.148','2011-10-26 14:02:38','2011-10-26 21:02:38','Well spoken John',0,'1','wp-iphone/2.9','',107,1),(109,1000,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2011-10-26 14:52:45','2011-10-26 21:52:45','I think the Golden Arches better watch out -- with their M -- apparently Mark Driscoll owns the letter.\r\n\r\nThis is absurd and embarrassing as a fellow believer.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,64),(110,1037,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-10-26 21:06:29','2011-10-27 04:06:29','Thanks for sharing part of your story, Brooke! (I LOVED your \"punchline\" post, by the way!)\r\n\r\nYes. Questions go unanswered and it leaves people feeling bored. And there\'s definitely a big lack of catering to the 20-somethings in church. It\'s either set up as a group to find your spouse, or for newlyweds and new parents.\r\n\r\nThe other problem is that the groups that cater to the 20-somethings don\'t end up any better than the shallow youth groups. I don\'t know how to fix it, but I think being aware of the problem is the first step.\r\n\r\nThanks for stopping by to read. :)\r\n\r\n\"I tend to avoid arguments about those topics, because it generally boils down to name-calling. My 4-year-old can argue more effectively than that.\" &lt;--- Hahahaha. :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',94,38),(111,1013,'Brooke Eikenberry','brooke.eikenberry@gmail.com','http://30somethingcrisis.tumblr.com/','65.190.93.23','2011-10-27 08:40:06','2011-10-27 15:40:06','I recently moved to the South, and at our new church they had the kids at VBS recite the pledge of allegiance, followed by a  pledge to the Christian flag, and finally a pledge to the Bible. I have to say, I was a little weirded out by this. It\'s something I never experienced up North. I chalked it up to a North-South cultural difference, and perhaps a bigger emphasis on patriotism in the South. But, the whole pledge to the Christian flag and Bible seemed odd too. I guess in SOME ways it\'s like the creeds I used to say when I attended a Lutheran church, but that might be a stretch.\r\n\r\nRegardless, I kind of think that the pledge of allegiance is completely out of place in a Church service. I am glad to live in the USA, I respect and honor the service men and women who have and do fight for our nation, but in the end, I give my allegiance to God and pray for my nation.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,48),(112,1013,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.207.238','2011-10-27 09:02:03','2011-10-27 16:02:03','You said, \"So, if the pledge and the national anthem promote a feeling of superiority, that’s when I think it’s damaging.\" I second that.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',75,1),(113,1013,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.207.238','2011-10-27 09:03:10','2011-10-27 16:03:10','Brooke, I find the pledge of allegiance to a flag/nation in the midst of a church to be ironic.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',111,1),(114,1152,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2011-10-27 10:13:08','2011-10-27 17:13:08','I was challenged rather forcefully on my blog by an atheist after I first wrote this, because of course I cannot prove God exists.  Here\'s what I wrote to him.\r\n\r\n<blockquote>Of course I cannot actually prove what I believe — believing in God involves faith. I choose to believe. When I consider who I would be without my faith, in my own flesh, I know that I would not lovingly care for others. I’m too self centered, too corrupt, too comfortable. Left to myself I might just enjoy my comfortable life, if I were completely truthful. But I choose to believe in God — I believe that by Jesus giving his life for me, by God asking his son to do this, this proves (to me) how much he loves us. It was the ultimate sacrifice. But much of the suffering and hardship of the world are consequences of humanity’s choices — but God knows the suffering, that the world is falling apart. He knows the things you have seen. Because he gave us the freedom to choose (moral freedom) humanity has created this world we live in, the suffering of the human race is because of our brokenness, depravity, selfishness, choices. Yours and mine and those through out time. I haven’t read it so cannot say, but it was suggested to me to read Four Views of Divine Providence by Stanley Gundry. I pass that resource on to you. Again, I am truly sorry for sounding like I knew something I couldn’t possibly — belief in the end is simply a leap of faith. Thanks for your challenging words.</blockquote>\r\n\r\n',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,64),(115,1216,'Something Completely Different | I AM NOT AFRAID','','http://namethefear.wordpress.com/2011/10/27/something-completely-different/','72.232.7.52','2011-10-27 10:44:37','2011-10-27 17:44:37','[...] first article is called &#8220;The Trade&#8221; and it begins to think through the things we trade away in order to get to that mythical place of [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library','pingback',0,0),(116,1216,'If You Like Me Here&#8230;. | I AM NOT AFRAID','','http://namethefear.wordpress.com/2011/10/27/if-you-like-me-here/','69.170.134.38','2011-10-27 10:45:42','2011-10-27 17:45:42','[...] first article is called &#8220;The Trade&#8221; and it begins to think through the things we trade away in order to get to that mythical place of [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library','pingback',0,0),(117,813,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','68.73.44.130','2011-10-27 11:49:14','2011-10-27 18:49:14','What a great piece!\r\n\r\nMy husband is a huge comic book nerd. This kind of stuff is what lights his brain up. I watched him go through Arkham Asylum. I think there\'s a huge point to finding what\'s good in the things around us. (Obviously, within reason. While the Saw movies may have an interesting plot line and a message about redemption, it\'s still no reason to put your kids in front of them.)\r\n\r\nThe thing I love about comic books that my husband had shown me is that they are all exaggerated versions of ourselves. Almost all comic book characters have a human trait that is blown out of proportion that help us relate to each other, relate to ourselves, and live through them. Batman? He\'s upset because of how his parents were wronged, and even though he has a lot of money and has it all, he still is bothered by the injustices taking place in Gotham. So what does he do? He grabs a cape and takes care of it. Hulk? Mr. Banner can\'t control his temper so he turns into a big green thing. Superman reflects our invisible nature in our minds and shows that while we may feel perfect, one small thing can kill us. Even the villains can be broken down the same way.\r\n\r\nI love how simple it becomes when you take a close look at it. It helps me appreciate humanity.\r\n\r\nAlso, I feel particularly passionate about this kind of issue because I am not (or don\'t feel like I am) so far removed from when I was a kid with parents who had the same issues. Several of my friends had alarmist parents and would lock down the internet, the cable TV to be all Christian channels, and didn\'t allow them to go to movies because they would be supporting the devil. I just don\'t see how that is healthy or productive. It made me feel, personally, like those parents didn\'t trust us to use our own brains and any tiny of bit of dirt or badness and we would fly into the devil\'s arms willingly. \r\n\r\nNow, it\'s a bit different with your kids because I think they are younger than I was, but I admire how you are trying to help guide them and instruct them without banning everything. I think you have found a great balance between protecting and educating your children, but also letting them experience things for themselves. I don\'t think there\'s any harm in you being in the room to watch over, because you are still giving them their own space.\r\n\r\nIt\'s a touchy subject, and I\'m not a parent yet so it will probably feel different once I have kidlets of my own, but for now, this is how I feel.\r\n\r\nThank you for writing! Great piece!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.186 Safari/535.1','',0,38),(118,1328,'John Martinez','John@thedistillerychurch.org','http://indiefaith.org','74.67.52.50','2011-10-27 15:03:42','2011-10-27 22:03:42','Thanks for sharing your story of how you were in fact delivered from yourself.  I too have story upon story of how forgiveness has changed who I am on the inside.  It has always been a good thing for my soul and even with the frequent reminders it is all too easy not to forgive.  In fact I have found that forgiveness has rarely been a one-time event per offense, but a lifetime event per offense.\r\n\r\nMy unforgiveness surfaces occasionally when I least expect it, and I have to remember then that I had begun to forgive that person and then I have to go through the motions of forgiveness all over again.  I suspect that it is this way with you too.  I have called it \"waves\" of forgiveness for lack of a better explanation, and it is a necessary process I believe.\r\n\r\nThanks again for the transparency here.  :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,4),(119,1328,'Kara Maddox','karamaddox@yahoo.com','http://Karabess.wordpress.com','68.121.53.159','2011-10-27 15:24:12','2011-10-27 22:24:12','Thanks John! I like how you phrased that with \"waves of forgiveness\". It is absolutely a process and a discipline. There will be waves so to speak, moments in our lives over and over again that we will be faced with the choice to forgive or not. Anytime I wrestle with it I have to ask myself, WHO am I really hurting? What is it costing me to hang out to this unforgiveness?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:6.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0.2','',118,13),(120,813,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.31.230','2011-10-27 17:38:40','2011-10-28 00:38:40','Thanks, Deanna. That\'s a great take on heroes. I love Batman in particular and his reasons for standing for justice. He shows a dark side at times and is very human.\r\n\r\nYou\'re right about kids and culture. I\'ve been reading your recent articles with great interest. I think we both grew up in similar situations. Some of my friends weren\'t allowed to do certain things or watch certain things. My parents were strict, but they took an approach that was less liberal than mine - they taught me what was right and encouraged me to make the right decisions. It\'s a freeing thing to trust your children. But, we also have to maintain an eye on them too.\r\n\r\nThanks for your comment!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,12),(121,1328,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.31.230','2011-10-27 17:48:30','2011-10-28 00:48:30','Absolutely beautiful. Thank you for sharing that.\r\n\r\nI\'ve lost both parents to separate accidents as well as my college roommate. I hear you when you say there\'s no such thing as an \"accident.\" Grief is an awful thing to bear and the situation you were plunged into was difficult. \r\n\r\nYour point about people attempting to comfort was right on. When I was a pastor, people used to ask, \"I don\'t know what to say to people when they suffer loss.\" I would tell them, \"Don\'t say anything. Just listen.\" Unfortunately, we often fill the grieving with the standard statements you mentioned. I think people are trying to be helpful, but they don\'t know what to say.\r\n\r\nOne of my favorite quotes about the topic is from Fight Club. The narrator isn\'t sick, but to fight insomnia, he visits support meetings of people who are dying. He meets a woman who is doing the same thing. He says to her, \"When people think you\'re dying, they really, really listen to you, instead of just...\" She finishes, \"instead of just waiting for their turn to speak?\"\r\n\r\nI\'m glad you were able to forgive and find freedom. I\'ve written a lot and learned a little about forgiveness in my life in the past two years. I\'ll say a prayer for you as you move on in your journey.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,12),(122,1328,'Kara Maddox','karamaddox@yahoo.com','http://Karabess.wordpress.com','68.121.53.159','2011-10-27 18:35:35','2011-10-28 01:35:35','Ray,\r\n\r\nI am sorry to hear about your loss(es). \r\n\r\nMy favorite movie is Fight Club! I remember the first time I watched it after my mother died and that exact line brought me to tears. Sometimes in the midst of our grief we just need someone to be present. Someone to sit and quietly grieve beside us. I am reminded to do this myself when those around me experience loss. \r\n\r\nI have gained a lot of encouragement from reading your blog in the past and look forward to seeing more of your writing in the future!\r\n\r\nKara',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:6.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0.2','',121,13),(123,1292,'Jon Hunt','l.jonhunt@gmail.com','','108.86.39.220','2011-10-28 06:32:33','2011-10-28 13:32:33','The Occupy movement makes me sad.  I don\'t know what to think, I just have a heavy heart.  I see people with valid concerns, fearing for their future.  They want justice and see that the only way to live in a just world is to fix a broken system.  I struggle with how to validate their needs without reinforcing a system that is and always will be broken.  How do we bring Christ into the conversation? The protesters are crying out for someone to hear them.  They are waiting for the 1% to not just take notice, but to change and try to make this system work.  While some good things may come from this, ultimately I think that Christians need to be praying and acting to provide for these people.  Where America has failed them, the church can and should provide.  That is how I hope to act.  As far as specifics, I am praying and letting God just break my heart toward the people at my local Occupy movement.  I feel that as a whole the church has been so segregated that to go and try to proclaim our agenda without seriously listening and observing, would be an extreme shame.  The harvest is ripe, but we have no idea what the crop is, and our tools are ridiculously outdated.  The action I feel that I need to take now is fasting and prayer.  Letting this heaviness, this sadness sit within me for awhile.  I need to feel the pain of a nation that is desperate for God, but doesn\'t know it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,0),(124,1292,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','68.73.44.130','2011-10-28 08:42:17','2011-10-28 15:42:17','My husband and I got into a three hours conversation about this the other night. I admire the OWS protesters for standing up for something that they believe. They are the ones willing to risk arrest, tear gassing, losing their jobs, sleeping out in whatever weather may befall them... I admire that a lot. I also admire that it is (for the most part) a peaceful protest. They aren\'t terrorizing bankers, they aren\'t blowing buildings up, they are simply staying until something happens.\r\n\r\nThat said, I\'m not sure what should happen to make them satisfied. A lot of the things that are asking for would take at least several months to a couple of years to create the legislation, pass it through the houses, and get it implemented. (And I feel that\'s a rather optimistic timeline.)\r\n\r\nSo my question is, what happens now? When is it okay for them to go home? Do they just need to get some celebrities and high-profile politicians on their side to see them start working on their list? \r\n\r\nMy husband sees them as calling for blood and trying to bring justice where there won\'t be complete justice (for every crooked banker there are several more people who helped them, and we might only catch the banker). And he feels that they are not contributing to the economy because they aren\'t working or doing anything productive.\r\n\r\nPersonally, the reason I haven\'t gone down to Occupy Detroit is because while I like what they are doing, in a sense, it isn\'t my baby. And they aren\'t being violent, so why not let them stay there and see if something happens? I doubt many people in the beginning of the Tahrir Square in Cairo thought anything would happen, but they were the catalyst to bring the rest of the people needed so they would not be ignored. And something happened.\r\n\r\nSo, I have no idea how to feel about it. It\'s confusing and strange. I\'ve mostly kept my mouth shut about it because I can\'t adequately figure out how to feel about it or defend/criticize it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.186 Safari/535.1','',0,38),(125,1052,'Where The Church Lost Me&nbsp;|&nbsp;Provoketive Magazine','','http://provoketive.com/2011/10/26/where-the-church-lost-me/','208.109.181.121','2011-10-28 11:34:31','2011-10-28 18:34:31','[...] Where the Church Lost Me: Part 3: Simplistic Sexuality [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library -- WordPress/3.2.1','pingback',0,0),(126,1258,'Jim Henderson','jim@jimhendersonpresents.com','','64.134.66.254','2011-10-28 12:38:42','2011-10-28 19:38:42','Melody \r\n\r\nThank you of course for mentioning my new soon to be released book- The Resignation of Eve but thank you mostly for caring and speaking up. My book grew out of the same observations you make- If women run the church ( meaning the church would not \"work or operate\" without them (check the stats) then Why Do Men Lead It? That question led to more questions\r\n\r\n1. Why do women put up with this?\r\n\r\n2. Why do pastors accept treating women with less respect, honor and humanity than the founder of our movement did?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.21.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.5 Safari/533.21.1','',0,0),(127,1216,'Erin Acton','erin1acton@gmail.com','http://erinacton.tumblr.com','142.32.208.237','2011-10-28 13:12:17','2011-10-28 20:12:17','What a fascinating idea to spend time on self assessment and awareness in university. Love it. It\'s a good start, but I often wonder if we should also do this earlier in the school system and then continue to reassess throughout life. It seems to me that finding work that fits one\'s purpose is an iterative process. Same goes for the trades we make. As you point out, what may look like a good deal today may not be so appealing in the future. And (unrelated) who are these tuna lovers? I\'d love to meet a person who wanted to trade their PB &amp; J for fish.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,0),(145,1258,'Pam Hogeweide','pamhogeweide@gmail.com','http://www.godmessedmeup.blogspot.com','71.236.152.241','2011-10-30 09:03:55','2011-10-30 16:03:55','Great post and great conversation!\r\n\r\nI know Jim Henderson and am a huge fan of his work, especially his newest book, The Resignation of Eve. I have friends who are also skeptical of a man writing a book to tell women\'s stories, but the thing I like to remind them is that Jim can write about whatever he wants. As an established author, he has a soapbox and can use it for pretty much any kind of worthy message, and there are dozens of book themes he could have developed. I like to think that this one is Spirit led for \"such a time as this,\" as like you, I am observing a growing consensus among women of faith (and men) that this Christianized sexism has got to stop. \r\n\r\nJim asked the question, Why do women put up with this? \r\n\r\nTo answer this is worthy of a separate post as it is multi-layered. I explore some of the reasons why women endure inequality in the church in my own forthcoming book, Unladylike : Resisting the Injustice of Inequality in the Church.  Some reasons include confusion  and vagueness (as Melody has pointed out) about a theology of ourselves, and I think also a strong rationale that this is a side issue. \r\n\r\nMany of us are convinced that the issue of equality of women in the church is a distraction from the real mission of the church, so it\'s best we don\'t make a fuss and mind our manners. \r\n\r\nIn my book I confront the tendency of women to trivialize ourselves, our voice and our worth. I am not a side issue. Neither are you. \r\n\r\nI am excited about the new books that came out this past year, such as Why I Changed my Mind about Women in Leadership from Zondervan and also Half the Church by Caroline Custis James (I like most of her book tho she refuses to publicly reveal her conscience about women equality in the church. A diplomatic gesture, I\'m sure, but unfortunate in my opinion).  Her book is still a great read and offers some great insights about the collaborative power of women and men together.  \r\n\r\nAnd that is the point : collaboration. Not domination. Mutual collaboration in presenting the image of God and being the voice of God. Together. \r\n\r\nI\'ll stop here before my comment morphs into a post all of it\'s own. \r\n\r\nSo glad you stirred this up, Melody. Keep stirring!!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,0),(128,1013,'MyHeartCry','myheartcryprovoketive@gmail.com','http://www.myheartcry.wordpress.com','173.20.245.138','2011-10-28 15:21:47','2011-10-28 22:21:47','Jesus had a lot to say about empire.  None of it was positive.  The United States of America is as much an empire today as Rome was at the time that Jesus made those statements.  Jesus made it clear that His kingdom is not of this world.  He also had a lot to say about loving your neighbor and even loving your enemy.  So, I find pledging allegiance to an earthly kingdom misguided at best and idolatrous at worst.  But, it is not something that I can do in good conscience, as a follower of Christ.  I have not been able to say the pledge of allegiance in good conscience since I was in junior high.  Nobody noticed until high school, at which point a teacher asked why I stood but stood in silence and refused to place my hand over my heart or recite the words.  I explained to her that to profess allegiance to a piece of cloth (no matter how noble what that cloth represented was meant to be) or a country (when I am a human being and have a love for every human being, whether they exist within the same borders as I reside within or not) is not something that I could do as a follower of Jesus and I was not going to speak an oath to appease anyone.  She sighed and left me alone after that.  I was not being disrespectful... I often stood during the pledge.  It was simply a matter of conviction for me.  I wrote a blog entry on this issue a few years ago that included some research and information that I \"gleaned\" from someone else who had written more extensively on the subject.  That can be found at http://www.myspace.com/theshadowpoet/blog/326868815 if anyone is interested in some of the more in depth reasoning behind my convictions.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,87),(129,1258,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.207.238','2011-10-28 15:28:04','2011-10-28 22:28:04','Jim, I would love to review the book on Provoketive when it comes out. Or have one of my writers review it.  Are you interested?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',126,1),(130,1000,'Marlene','lyonet@comcast.net','','76.120.191.154','2011-10-28 17:27:55','2011-10-29 00:27:55','I agree with Melody Harrison Hanson and John Martinez.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',64,0),(131,1258,'Marlene','lyonet@comcast.net','','76.120.191.154','2011-10-28 17:36:24','2011-10-29 00:36:24','Nicely said, Melody. I hope that does not provoke a stereotype of a nice woman writing nice things. What I mean is that your comments are balanced and heartfelt. While I never asked God to relieve me of my feminist radar, I wouldn\'t be surprised if others have! I don\'t even really consider myself feminist, but for the glaring inconsistencies, which you have articulated so well. Thank you.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,0),(132,1258,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2011-10-28 18:18:19','2011-10-29 01:18:19','Hi JIm:  Thanks for your comment.  I don\'t believe we want to \"run the church\" (necessarily) although perhaps that is what is feared.  We want the opportunity to use our God given talents and gifts for the Kingdom.  What holds us back is the ongoing teaching about a few verses in the NT that have been singled out to be of utmost importance.  Why do we put up with it?  Bible thumping men constantly throwing in our faces what we should and shouldn\'t be doing.   And we haven\'t studied scripture for ourselves, so we lack confidence to throw it back at them.  Why do pastor\'s accept it?  Well, I believe after nearly five years of asking in various ways that my church doesn\'t change (Elder &amp; teaching roles) \"yet\" because it would be too controversial.  I have had elders, pastors, and other church leaders tell me they don\'t believe in what they are perpetuating, but I must be patient.   The bigger fish to fry metaphor works in this case.  And I don\'t want to be the course of controversy, so I hunker down for a while and leave people alone about it.    But I would be interested in hearing from pastors why they accept it and asking other women why they think women perpetuate it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.102 Safari/535.2','',126,64),(133,1258,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2011-10-28 18:25:11','2011-10-29 01:25:11','Marlene:  I have found over the years that my \"angry voice\" doesn\'t get heard, plus it\'s a poor example as Jesus didn\'t get angry all that often right?  It\'s a discipline though. \n\nI think Christians are afraid of the f-word but it is simply misunderstanding a concept that has a continuum of thought and conviction.  We\'re not all \"radical.\"  But I call myself a feminist because I believe it is a simple idea -- we, yes men and women alike, are the same and deserve the same opportunities, influence, compensation, et al, . \n\nThanks for your thoughts.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.102 Safari/535.2','',131,64),(134,1258,'Voice of the Feminine | logic and imagination','','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com/2011/10/28/voice-of-the-feminine/','72.233.2.33','2011-10-28 19:57:36','2011-10-29 02:57:36','[...] I have thought a lot about the lack of presence and example of women in the Church.  One Sunday at my church in particular, women were simply spectators, the audience, the bystanders, the recipients and beneficiaries &#8230; Read more at Provoketive. [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library','pingback',0,0),(135,1216,'DarylJ','daryl.thomson@shaw.ca','','24.68.112.15','2011-10-28 20:43:38','2011-10-29 03:43:38','I completely agree with you that finding a calling or passion or purpose is iterative and evolutionary over the course of a lifetime.  I would have loved to do some self-discernment earlier in school.  Please watch for the next post where I\'m going to address this issue from a faith community perspective which - I think - is one of the best places to engage in this kind of activity.\n\nThanks for commenting !',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',127,0),(136,1258,'Meg Epperly','brightlywoven@yahoo.com','','76.103.17.132','2011-10-28 21:05:01','2011-10-29 04:05:01','I read Jim\'s \"If women run the church\" to be a statement of fact more than a statement of women\'s desires.  Most (male) pastors and leaders acknowledge that women ARE the backbone of the church.  The Sunday School teachers and potluck cookers and secretaries and schedulers...oh, and the attenders.  And the kid-bringers.  And the husband-bringers.\n\nWe are the church.  But not the teaching leadership in most evangelical churches.\n\nSome of my women friends whom you know (Paula, Kara, among others) have left evangelicalism for mainline churches, women\'s empowerment being one though not the sole reason. Some, like my friend Rachel, have left \"ministry\" for \"the world\" because they hit a much bigger glass ceiling in the church--Rachel had had more Bible credits than anyone else on staff except perhaps the senior pastor--at one time--but could never be \"Children\'s Pastor\" or even \"Associate Pastor\" and felt like she was hitting her head against that ubiquitous glass ceiling. Now she uses her many gifts in a secular school classroom (and they are lucky to have her).  Some go to the mission field, where by dint of the scarcity of any sort of leadership, women are often allowed lives of scope they aren\'t in the American evangelical church.  (That was my plan until I nearly lost my faith, found enough of it to keep clinging to Jesus, and married a US-rooted man.)\n\nOur church is finally mentoring women into a teaching role--but sadly, our senior pastor has been thwarted in this desire (so he says, and I believe him) by many older WOMEN in the church who have been taught (what he and I consider) bad theology about women in ministry.  We did have Roberta Hestenes speak at our church, and I did, sadly, notice some people walk out.  Including some women.\n\nAh, well, kids to put to bed, other things to think about, but mostly I wanted to say \"thanks\" to you for writing this and for \"Provoketive\" for publishing it.  I can\'t wait to read more.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',132,0),(137,1258,'Meg Epperly','brightlywoven@yahoo.com','','76.103.17.132','2011-10-28 21:09:58','2011-10-29 04:09:58','Realized my words about the mission field could sound very ethno-centric.  There is hopefully local, indigenous leadership, but at least when I was on the mission field short term, missionary women were doing the important work of translating the scriptures, etc.  It\'s been 20 years, though, so what do I really know.  All I know is that young Meg thought the mission field was the place to be if I wanted to use my gifts.\n\nSometimes my keyboard gets ahead of my brain and heart.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',136,0),(138,1258,'Evelyn Galan','evelyn@vidalifecancun.com','','187.141.84.91','2011-10-28 22:13:51','2011-10-29 05:13:51','Melody, you are not alone in your thoughts.  I have been on a three year long journey delving into this very thing realizing that manmade doctrine has been oppressing women for centuries.  It was such a life-changing revelation that I am in the process of writing a book addressing that very thing!  God intends for women to serve and lead on a variety of capacities.  What is encouraging to me is that more and more women are being stirred up to the same realization that half the body of Christ are oppressed by male leadership that is stuck in old mindsets.  It is changing!  Be encouraged as you are going to begin seeing women released to freely lead and serve.  In fact, when revival hit Columbia,  the male pastors publicly apologized and asked forgiveness to a stadium of women for years of oppression and bad doctrine.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en_US) AppleWebKit (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile [FBAN/FBForIPhone;FBAV/4.0.2;FBBV/4020.0;FBDV/iPhone3,1;FBMD/iPhone;FBSN/iPhone OS;FBSV/4.3.5;FBSS/2; FBCR/Telcel;FBID/phone;FBLC/en_US;FBSF/2.0]','',0,0),(140,1376,'Where The Church Lost Me&nbsp;|&nbsp;Provoketive Magazine','','http://provoketive.com/2011/10/26/where-the-church-lost-me/','208.109.181.121','2011-10-29 15:19:20','2011-10-29 22:19:20','[...] Where the Church Lost Me: Part 4: Unfriendly to Doubt [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library -- WordPress/3.2.1','pingback',0,0),(141,1258,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2011-10-29 20:16:38','2011-10-30 03:16:38','Chrystal:  I too took a break from any sort of involvement and experienced some healing and personal renewal.  I came back with a sense that the time is now to speak out and try to be a voice for change.  Figuring out the wisest way to do that is what I think about a lot.  Sound too strident and you fulfill one stereotype. Counter that with timidity and very little is accomplished.  I also want to be able to express myself well and make sure that my beliefs are scripturally based.  I feel like I need to go to seminary sometimes and yet what seminary?  And to what end? \n\nI am glad that you have returned.  The church needs all of us.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.102 Safari/535.2','',139,64),(142,1258,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2011-10-29 20:18:24','2011-10-30 03:18:24','Evelyn:  I can\'t wait to read your book.  Who will you publish with?  \n\nOur stories need to be told.  May God bless you as you continue on the journey.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.102 Safari/535.2','',138,64),(143,1258,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2011-10-29 20:25:05','2011-10-30 03:25:05','Thanks Meg!  It is no doubt true that (some) of the older generations experience a great deal of discomfort with the new world they find themselves in.  Navigating that is a challenge.  There is a book that helped a bunch of older folk I know <a href=\"http://www.amazon.com/Call-Me-Blessed-Emerging-Christian/dp/0802803024/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1319944983&amp;sr=1-6\" rel=\"nofollow\">Call Me Blessed</a>: The Emerging Christian Woman by Faith Martin that might be one to suggest to your pastor.  It is very gentle and biblical.  It helped my own parents and others of their ilk at one time. \n\nThanks for your thoughts.  I appreciate you a lot.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.102 Safari/535.2','',136,64),(144,1258,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2011-10-29 20:29:27','2011-10-30 03:29:27','<blockquote>Sometimes my keyboard gets ahead of my brain and heart.</blockquote>\n\nYou are not alone there!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.102 Safari/535.2','',137,64),(146,1258,'Jim Henderson','jim@jimhendersonpresents.com','','12.130.124.18','2011-10-30 09:35:04','2011-10-30 16:35:04','Jonathon\r\n\r\nI would be honored - Maybe my co conspirator Pam Hogeweide would like to handle that for you',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.21.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.5 Safari/533.21.1','',129,0),(147,1258,'Jim Henderson','jim@jimhendersonpresents.com','','12.130.124.18','2011-10-30 09:39:00','2011-10-30 16:39:00','Meg\r\n\r\nYou accurately understood my meaning. Thanks. \r\n\r\nI love Roberta Hestenes. I heard her in the 80s at Fuller\r\n\r\nYour note: \"We did have Roberta Hestenes speak at our church, and I did, sadly, notice some people walk out. Including some women.\" makes me wonder how Christians learned to be so rude and fearful of hearing a new idea',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.21.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.5 Safari/533.21.1','',136,0),(148,1258,'Jim Henderson','jim@jimhendersonpresents.com','','12.130.124.18','2011-10-30 09:40:48','2011-10-30 16:40:48','men suspend the rules about women when its convenient',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.21.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.5 Safari/533.21.1','',137,0),(149,1258,'Jim Henderson','jim@jimhendersonpresents.com','','12.130.124.18','2011-10-30 09:45:49','2011-10-30 16:45:49','Read Unladylike as soon as it comes out \r\n\r\nWhen my co conspirator Pam says \"Many of us are convinced that the issue of equality of women in the church is a distraction from the real mission of the church, so it’s best we don’t make a fuss and mind our manners.\" \r\n\r\nShe reminds me of what my favorite historian Barbara Tuchman said in A Distant Mirror\r\n\r\n\" in the scales of history inertia outweighs that of change\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.21.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.5 Safari/533.21.1','',145,0),(150,1376,'John Martinez','John@thedistillerychurch.org','http://indiefaith.org','74.67.52.50','2011-10-30 10:00:25','2011-10-30 17:00:25','\"When someone talks for twenty full minutes about how he is going to step on some toes, how he didn’t want to offend anyone, but that he needed to share the truth, I just want there to be something more substantial than telling me to do my devotions.\"\r\n\r\nlol.    Just wanted to get that out....\r\n\r\nYes, it seems as if you learned the  truth that the greatest perceived evil to the Christian church are the ones who ask too many questions.  At least in the communities that you and I have attended.  \r\n\r\nI can only imagine the feelings and emotions you experienced when the folks you considered mentors turned their backs on you for some \"acceptable and approved counsel.\"  Telling you to merely get over it or buck up, when you had some genuine concerns that needed to be aired and listened to and acknowledged and affirmed.  \r\n\r\nThis is the one time in your writings that i wish to extend my apologies to you, because I know I have probably done the very same thing to others.  You know, not listened, tried to just get them to move on, evaded healthy conflict, rather than engaged it?\r\n\r\nThanks again for being vulnerable with us and telling your story.  Keep up the good work!  :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,4),(151,1388,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-10-30 10:06:35','2011-10-30 17:06:35','Bill, thanks for writing this.\r\n\r\nFor me, what I\'v found is that I end up blocking myself in my head. \"Why would I get pick me to (insert dream)over anyone else?\" It ends up being an insurmountable shadow in my mind.\r\n\r\nEventually what I have to do is just try. Even if I think it\'s in vain, just try. And for me it starts with just a little. A little bit of effort can show me that there maybe is a chance and then pushes me onward to put even more of my heart into it. \r\n\r\nI think this a very perceptive post that I (and I\'m sure other people) have to constantly be reminded of. Thanks for writing this!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,38),(152,1388,'Bill Huffhine','billhuffhine@gmail.com','http://www.christiandropout.com','64.134.167.229','2011-10-30 10:12:42','2011-10-30 17:12:42','Hi Deanna!\r\n\r\nThanks so much for your comment here. You are so right. The defeat of obstacles always begins with the word \"go!\" That\'s all we have to do. Go. Start. Now.\r\n\r\nVery nice to have \"met\" you.  :-)\r\n\r\nBill',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,0),(153,1311,'John Martinez','John@thedistillerychurch.org','http://indiefaith.org','74.67.52.50','2011-10-30 10:13:53','2011-10-30 17:13:53','Okay, I am going for the 100...  I will just blurb this out then,,,,   You are an INFJ?  So far I have only read two of your posts, so be kind...\r\n\r\nI like what you have to say about these gifts inventories/surveys.  We did one of these early on in our church plant to evaluate where our deficiencies as a team were and realized that we had quite a few.  Namely, we were all teachers of some sort.\r\n\r\nBut, we didn\'t take them too seriously, we just kind of filled in in areas that we lacked by taking turns at the stuff that didn\'t come natural to us.  I think you are right about the making excuses part as well.  \r\n\r\nBeing someone for instance who prefers the informal to the formal, I tend to not end meetings on time and I tend to not really care about the time, which really bugs others who are more formal, not to mention those that actually have a life.  I do however have much more patience for them, knowing that they are more formal when they say \"okay, let\'s get to the prayer time, we are going to run over here.\"\r\n\r\nBy the way, I began praying as an 11 year old child NOT to have the \"gift\" of celibacy.  Thank God I do not have this gift...  j/k  :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,4),(154,1311,'Brooke Eikenberry','brooke.eikenberry@gmail.com','http://30somethingcrisis.tumblr.com/','65.190.93.23','2011-10-30 10:22:31','2011-10-30 17:22:31','Ding ding ding! We have a winner! You are 100% correct: I am an INFJ. Nice job, I am duly impressed!\r\n\r\nKnowing the gifts of others in your church/ministry/team/etc can be very helpful, as you mentioned. It certainly makes it easier to show grace to each other when we know why people do the things they do or stress certain things that we may not . At the church I attend, they recognize people have certain areas they are suited for and areas they can \"help\" in, just to fill in the gaps until the right person comes along. They stress that the majority of what you do should fit your gift, but there is still room to help out in other areas. I like that--- I\'ve been in places where they shove you in a spot, regardless of your gifts and talents. In the end, that\'s not good for anybody. \r\n\r\nAs for praying to NOT have the gift of celibacy- hah! Priceless! I wonder if there are a lot of moms who want grandchildren some day who pray the same thing over their children..... ; )',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',153,48),(155,1067,'John Martinez','John@thedistillerychurch.org','http://indiefaith.org','74.67.52.50','2011-10-30 10:23:20','2011-10-30 17:23:20','Oh.... my...    goodness Joy!  I had no idea this was here.  So sorry I have not posted on this earlier.    Absolutely amazing poetry.  My heart sunk when I read it and it made me really sit in her shoes for awhile.  Thank you for writing this and posting it,\r\n\r\nSometimes it seems that Christians tend to be more judgmental and more prosecutorial than most other people.  They are the first ones to cheer when someone is put to death for a heinous crime, they are the ones protesting please of insanity claiming \"oh, she knew what she was doing...\"   They are the first ones to fire and shame and excommunicate a pastor who falls hard.\r\n\r\nIt is good for us to see the inner workings of the human person and how and why we do the things we do, heinous or not.  Thanks for painting this picture.  :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,4),(156,1388,'Martha Orlando','marthaorlando@gmail.com','http://marthaorlando.blogspot.com','98.242.117.104','2011-10-30 12:16:39','2011-10-30 19:16:39','Wonderful article, Bill!\r\n\r\nI agree; while there are many real and unexpected obstacles with which we are faced in life, it is our attitude that allows us to be either defeated by or rise above them.  To constantly blame others or particular circumstances for our lack of success is a cop-out.  We have the freedom to choose and we can overcome anything in our way, I believe, with faith and trust in God and His plans for us.\r\n\r\nBlessings, my friend!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,0),(157,1388,'Bill Huffhine','billhuffhine@gmail.com','http://www.christiandropout.com','75.241.237.11','2011-10-30 12:27:44','2011-10-30 19:27:44','Hi Martha!\r\n\r\nThanks so much for stopping by and commenting. It\'s always a pleasure to interact with you.  :-)\r\n\r\nBill',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,77),(158,1067,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-10-30 13:36:35','2011-10-30 20:36:35','John, there\'s a saying that essentially says you don\'t understand what someone has experienced until you have walked in their shoes.  That\'s true for all of us.  I have some understanding of what Andrea felt, because I had similair feelings at one time.  I have only sympathy for a crack addict or someone with a fatal disease because I\'ve never been there.\r\n\r\nBut I agree with you about some Christians.  It\'s easy in righteous indignation to judge the sinner along with the sin.  But Jesus never did that.  Not once.  It takes the grace of God within us to love, period.  To offer grace because we all need grace.  One of my favorite verses is James 2:11:  \"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.\"  \r\n\r\nGod doesn\'t have lists of good sins and bad sins.  In His justice system, a person that steals a pencil in third grade is just as guilty as a chainsaw murderer.  We all need God\'s forgiveness, mercy and grace.  Only when we recognize that do we become capable of ministering to all people, regardless of what they have done.\r\n\r\nHere\'s one more verse I think about on a regular basis:  \"Do not judge lest you be judged.  For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure it will be measured to you\"  Matt. 7:1-2.\r\n\r\nI appreciate your candor and understanding.  God grant all of us to see what we need and extend it to others.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,35),(159,1258,'Vina','vinajoybarham@gmail.com','http://anourishinghome.com','98.225.35.21','2011-10-30 14:45:36','2011-10-30 21:45:36','Wow. How timely to have found this! I am right there with you, Melody. I too have felt the stirring when I became a mama about 3 years ago. So many thoughts here to respond to. \r\n\r\n\"I am tired of the male dominated culture on the platform, as authors, as experts, as theologians, as speakers at conferences and in the Church at large.\"\r\n\r\nMe too. And often I wonder, could it be because our very foundation and practice of our faith removes the Feminine? With the Father God, the Son Jesus and the neutral-gender Holy Spirit woven into the very consciousness of every women who reads and breathes the Scriptures with no other Face and Presence of the Feminine, why are we surprised that women are disconnected from their voice and spiritual identity?\r\n\r\n\"I believe it harms us to rarely hear the spiritual voices of women and for me personally, it hampers my faith and my journey with Christ.\"\r\n\r\nI believe this too. And I passionately believe that not only do we harm ourselves, but we obscure the gift of the church to the world. \r\n\r\nOH Melody, I\'m so so glad you started this discussion. I\'m heading to your blog now to read more. PLease don\'t tire of speaking out. We al need to speak out. \r\n\r\nA sister,\r\nVina\r\n(http://anourishinghome.com)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.50 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Safari/534.50','',0,0),(160,1342,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-10-30 15:39:32','2011-10-30 22:39:32','\"The idea behind the song for us as a church is that we truly are nothing on our own.\"\r\n\r\nI\'m not going to lie, after reading that sentence I was worried you were going to go the \"The Bible is my best friend\" route. I\'m relieved that you didn\'t. :)\r\n\r\nIt took me a long time to realize this. During my wedding I realized just how important it was for me to have people around me. When my close friends and I had a house church for a while, that\'s what I learned then too. \r\n\r\nRight now we\'re going to a church that I\'m less than thrilled about, but we\'re going for our friends. I told Melissa about that OP11 and how I felt bad about that, and she said \"If community is important, isn\'t that actually a *good* reason to go to church?\"\r\n\r\nTotal light bulb.\r\n\r\nOnce again, love it!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,38),(161,1067,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-10-30 16:07:26','2011-10-30 23:07:26','Wow. What an incredible story.\r\n\r\nWhen my sister was born my mom had postpartum depression and she remembers just crying all the time and feeling really helpless. I think this is one of those things that tends to get ignored because, (while I can\'t speak from experience) it seems like there is a stigma behind admitting that parenting might not be all butterflies and rainbows. And while that sounds weird, when you ask new parents how things are, they give this answer that alludes to it being crazy but then generally follow it up with \"But I wouldn\'t trade it for the world\" to skirt sounding like a bad parent.\r\n\r\nI\'m thankful for actresses like Gwenyth Paltrow and Bryce Dallas Howard, who both went through postpartum depression and are working to raise awareness so other moms don\'t have to be alone.\r\n\r\nYour honesty astounds and inspires me, Joy.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,38),(162,1388,'Lynne Watts','lynnewatts@comcast.net','http://www.wyattthewonderdog.com','98.242.97.6','2011-10-30 16:54:00','2011-10-30 23:54:00','A wonderful, inspiring and insightful article.  I too had a dream of publishing a book and waited for years for SOMETHING TO HAPPEN.  Once I decided to make it happen, life has never been the same.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.51.22 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.1 Safari/534.51.22','',0,0),(163,1067,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-10-30 17:01:30','2011-10-31 00:01:30','Thank you for the affirmation, Deanna.  I don\'t know if you have read Not Alone yet, but it\'s a compilation of stories by 37 authors with depression.  I\'m one of them.  There are several stories in it from women who have or had postpartum depression.  Though the essays are different, they all share the same themes, one of which is the tendency of many people to say,\"Get over it!\" or \"Where is your faith?  Trust in God and He will deliver you!\"  For many of us, that doesn\'t happen, so we stay silent.  Not Alone was published to let those suffering from depression know they aren\'t alone and other people have it just like them.\r\n\r\nI have clinical depression and don\'t think I had postpartum depression, but I remember one horrible day when the baby wouldn\'t quit crying and go to sleep.  I reached the end of my patience, picked him up and shook him, screaming, \"SHUT UP!!!\"  By the grace of God, his neck wasn\'t broken by the shaking.  It wasn\'t until about 15 minutes later that I thought, \"God, what is WRONG with me?\"\r\n\r\nYou can\'t share something like that.  Depression sucks you under and you isolate, ashamed and afraid.  I pray that God uses the things He/She has been leading me to write this last year helps other people with similar wounds.  It still isn\'t easy for me to be this openly vulnerable.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,35),(164,1342,'John Martinez','John@thedistillerychurch.org','http://indiefaith.org','74.67.52.50','2011-10-30 17:13:33','2011-10-31 00:13:33','Ahh Deanna,\r\nIt\'s also true that I need you, or we need each other I should say.  Us writer\'s ought-ta stick together.  Heh.\r\n\r\nNaah, if I hear that line one more time \"all I need is my Bible... blah blah blah...\"  Anyway.  Glad you get the picture.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',160,4),(165,1342,'John Martinez','John@thedistillerychurch.org','http://indiefaith.org','74.67.52.50','2011-10-30 17:17:25','2011-10-31 00:17:25','Oh, you didn\'t say anything about Carolyn\'s performance..  what do you think?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',160,4),(166,1376,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-10-30 20:20:29','2011-10-31 03:20:29','Glad I could make you laugh. :-P\r\n\r\n\"Yes, it seems as if you learned the truth that the greatest perceived evil to the Christian church are the ones who ask too many questions.\"\r\n\r\nYES!\r\n\r\nI appreciate your apology. It\'s funny because I was willing to stir up controversy then but years later skirt around conflict when I need to. Maybe that\'s where I learned it, who knows. And see? Now that you\'ve seen it in someone else\'s story, it will hopefully alert you to seeing it in your own life. (I mean, sometimes people are being brats, sometimes they aren\'t. I guess learning to tell the difference and what to do with each is the tricky part!)\r\n\r\nYou\'re welcome. Thanks for reading and encouraging me to be open!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',150,38),(167,1067,'Kaitlin Moroney','sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com','http://kaitlinallen24.blogspot.com','67.5.118.73','2011-10-30 20:54:39','2011-10-31 03:54:39','This is incredible. \r\n\r\nI echo Deanna\'s sentiment about there being a stigma associated with admitting that parenthood isn\'t always \"rainbows and butterflies\". \r\n\r\nAs a new parent myself, I can attest to the fact that it is hard. Very, very hard. My daughter is only 6 weeks old and while I don\'t suffer from post-partum depression, I do struggle almost daily with feelings of inadequacy, frustration and helplessness. And I feel guilty about it. I feel the need to use that phrase \"but I wouldn\'t trade it for the world\" whenever I might say that I hate the constant lack of sleep or that my daughter will cry for hours on end and nothing I do can get her to quiet down. I have gotten judgmental comments when I have said that I hate feeling like I\'m stuck in the house all day constantly feeding, changing diapers, wiping spit-up and quieting fussing. \r\n\r\nI learned in the first couple of weeks that when people ask \"how is being a parent?\" they generally don\'t really want to hear the truth. They want to hear \"Oh gosh, it\'s great! Nothing better in the world! I just love her little self to pieces and every day is better than the last!\"\r\n\r\nI have suffered from depression in the past and while it has been several years since I\'ve had a relapse, I have moments where I feel that same sense of hopelessness. Because being a parent (especially, I think, for parents of very small children and babies) is a very difficult adjustment.\r\n\r\nThank you so much for this post!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/4.0.1','',0,78),(168,1388,'Susan Deborah','susan.deborah@gmail.com','http://meanderingsandreflections.blogspot.com/','117.211.85.19','2011-10-30 21:10:20','2011-10-31 04:10:20','Wonderful piece to be reading today, the last day of October. This article is a remainder for me to find time to entertain those hopes that were well hidden but not forgotten.\r\n\r\nCame over from Blogplicity.\r\n\r\nCheerio.\r\n\r\nGreetings from India.\r\n\r\nJoy always,\r\nSusan',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,0),(169,1376,'Kaitlin Moroney','sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com','http://kaitlinallen24.blogspot.com','67.5.118.73','2011-10-30 21:10:59','2011-10-31 04:10:59','Another awesome post. While I didn\'t face this directly (my family was out of the Christian church by the time I was 12 and had left organized religion altogether by the time I was 16), my parents had their fair share of it when they left Christianity. Our pastor told my parents that they should have \"asked his permission\" before leaving our church (as if it\'s his decision!?). My parents were going a different place spiritually. They weren\'t getting the answers they wanted or needed from the church we were at. They were pushed aside and told to just go with the flow and to stop making waves. We got this not only from church leaders, but from family members who were heavily involved in the church. \r\n\r\nYeah. Not really the best way to convince people to stay. \r\n\r\nThis is also one of the big huge main reasons why, while I would love to go to a church and have that fellowship, I can\'t stand the thought. It is so difficult to find a church where growth is *genuinely* encouraged and all questions/doubts/journeys are welcomed. Maybe someday I\'ll find that awesome place. \r\n\r\nThanks for sharing, Deanna. Your posts always make me feel...not alone. =D',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/4.0.1','',0,78),(170,1342,'Kaitlin Moroney','sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com','http://kaitlinallen24.blogspot.com','67.5.118.73','2011-10-30 21:20:03','2011-10-31 04:20:03','I struggle with this a lot. I really, really desire to be in a church/community setting with fellow believers and to have that fellowship. But at the same time, any church that I\'ve tried to become involved in...I\'ve just felt stifled. I haven\'t felt challenged. I haven\'t felt like it\'s a place where I can truly express my thoughts, feelings and beliefs about God and religion in general. I\'ve always felt as if I have to walk on eggshells to avoid offending people. \r\n\r\nAnd that isn\'t the church experience I want or need. Where is the balance? To me, it isn\'t really beneficial to me if I can\'t fully express myself. At the same time, I feel like I\'m not getting anywhere on my own. I guess I just need to find that one special church where I can truly feel like I belong. But until then? I have no idea. \r\n\r\nThanks for the post! It gave me food for thought.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/4.0.1','',0,78),(171,1388,'Kaitlin Moroney','sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com','http://kaitlinallen24.blogspot.com','67.5.118.73','2011-10-30 21:32:48','2011-10-31 04:32:48','Thank you so much for writing this! It came at a good time for me. While I am still very  young and haven\'t quite reached the phase of life where my dreams have been left by the wayside, I am at a point where the dreams I do have seem almost impossible. (New mother, wanting to finish my degree and still be able to do what I love but not wanting to abandon my daughter to daycare)\r\n\r\nI am thankful for my husband who constantly nudges me forward (sometimes forcefully) in the direction of my goals, encouraging me and reminding me that they aren\'t impossible. Difficult, maybe. With their share of trials and bumps in the road. But not impossible.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/4.0.1','',0,78),(172,1013,'Kaitlin Moroney','sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com','http://kaitlinallen24.blogspot.com','67.5.118.73','2011-10-30 22:18:53','2011-10-31 05:18:53','Brooke, I grew up in the Nazarene denomination and in our youth program we would pledge allegiance to the flag, the Christian flag and the bible. I always thought it was odd. (Since when does Christianity have a flag?) \r\n\r\nIn response to the original post, I pretty much agree with what Deanna said. America tends to have a superiority complex. Personally, \'m one of those horrible unpatriotic people who feels supremely uncomfortable doing the pledge of allegiance or singing the national anthem with my hand over my heart and my eyes raised worshipfully to the US flag. Mainly because I don\'t really feel...American. I feel human. I don\'t identify with America, I identify with the human race. So it\'s hard for me to pledge my allegiance to one country when I really feel allegiance to humanity. \r\n\r\nAnd I give huge kudos to that woman for thinking outside of the American box. Especially considering the fact that she is a veteran.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/4.0.1','',111,78),(177,1342,'John Martinez','John@thedistillerychurch.org','http://indiefaith.org','74.67.52.50','2011-10-31 10:20:42','2011-10-31 17:20:42','I would have to admit that i do really love my little community and wouldn\'t trade it for the world, but I also understand that not everyone has the option to attend a community like mine that loves me as I am and encourages me to be... me.\r\n\r\nI do understand being in a place where there is no church or community that supports you and allows you to flourish as a person and a follower of Jesus, as opposed to a place that stifles you and holds you down.  I would not wish that kind of community on my worst enemy.\r\n\r\nI would encourage you to keep looking.  There are a few Presbyterian churches out there in Spokane that seem interesting, but after a thorough search of the web I haven\'t found a huge listing of churches that look open and friendly and accepting and loving.  many of them seem like what we have here in Albany, traditional and kind of...  old... and well more concerned about their programs then their people.  Of course that was just a glance.\r\n\r\nI do also recommend joining some internet communities of folks that will support you and listen to you and read your stuff and look at your pictures. One that i have found to be an asset for me is the Outlaw Preachers (which is not just for preachers).  You can find their group on Facebook (just search for \"Outlaw Preachers\"), just join it and begin sharing with all of us.  We have a wonderful get together each year.\r\n\r\nAlso, you should check out the TransForm Network here:  http://www.transformnetwork.org/group/uspacificnorthwest  \r\n\r\nI am also part of this network and it is for churches that kind of don\'t fit in elsewhere.  They too have regular get togethers, conferences, etc.  Of course these are the networks I am currently involved in that give me the most support as a person and a pastor.  You are welcome to each and consider this a personal invitation. :)  I hope you find a good community to share your spirituality with where you are.  Don\'t stop looking.  :)  Again, maybe the answer is not found in a traditional church setting. :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',170,4),(174,1067,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-10-31 05:23:59','2011-10-31 12:23:59','Kaitlin, I think there are a lot more mothers of very young children who feel like you do than so say, for the very reason you name.  The criticisms that always got to me the most were from fellow mothers of infants, who I thought would be sympathetic.  After a few of those barbs, I kept my mouth shut, which also kept me from knowing other mothers who felt like I did and could offer understanding and support.\r\n\r\nI think the most priceless baby shower present of all is the promise of an entire day away from the baby.  Something else I\'ve thought of that would make a good Christian ministry is a Mother\'s Relief Hotline you could call to get an understanding listener and practical advice, and maybe more importantly, immediate rescue (if possible) by an adult who would care for the baby a few hours and let mom get some sleep or get away from the house.  It might prevent some tragedies, and definitely would help the immediate stress on the mother\'s part.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,35),(175,1449,'Following the Heretic | Unsafe Challenge','','http://www.unsafechallenge.com/following-the-heretic','66.197.167.227','2011-10-31 08:48:13','2011-10-31 15:48:13','[...] You can find the post here. [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library -- WordPress/3.2.1','pingback',0,0),(176,1550,'Bryan','brvan71@yahoo.com','http://brvan.com','69.71.1.1','2011-10-31 09:45:07','2011-10-31 16:45:07','Can\'t wait to hear the responses on this one.  As far as blaming Eve, think about it this way, she was deceived.  Adam knew better and still rebelled.  I agree that men are called to be leaders...pastors, heads of households, etc.  But God did choose to use women in key roles in the Bible...i.e. Deborah and Esther.   \r\n\r\nAlso remember, God didn\'t want man to be a country\'s leader either.  Israel wanted a king because everyone else wanted one....This is a very good post, thought provoking and it lives up to its name...provoketive.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,0),(178,1601,'Marni Arnold','marni@relevantbrokenness.com','http://relevantbrokenness.com','71.68.99.224','2011-10-31 12:05:38','2011-10-31 19:05:38','I caught wind of this via social media today - Facebook or Twitter, I can\'t really remember right now. But I only really noticed that this marriage went down the other day as I was standing in Target at the checkout line and I saw a headline with her photo on the cover one of the many copies of magazines shouting loudly at me, \"look at me!\"\r\n\r\nI can\'t help feel a sense of sorrow for the many who get entangled in the nasty web thinking that marriage is flippant. That it\'s as passé as the yesteryear\'s themselves. That divorce is truly an option.\r\n\r\nIt saddens me deeply to see so many take the attitude that a person\'s heart - even their own - is disposable to some degree. That it can be written off somehow - even if only after 72 days.\r\n\r\nWhatever the case, or situation, is (or was) between Kim and Kris...I sincerely hope they both find a lesson of truth out of this moment for their own lives.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(179,1601,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.207.238','2011-10-31 12:07:40','2011-10-31 19:07:40','Marni, I think you\'ve made a distinction that resonates with me.  If this was a sham, she\'s made marriage disposable, which means it\'s not very meaningful.  And I get the same vibe.  \"Look at me!\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',178,1),(180,1531,'bekah','bekahhouff@gmail.com','','159.28.152.186','2011-10-31 12:32:15','2011-10-31 19:32:15','beautiful - even the second time around :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.51.22 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.1 Safari/534.51.22','',0,0),(181,1430,'Kaylee','Kayleestranberg@hotmail.com','','67.185.50.54','2011-10-31 12:56:13','2011-10-31 19:56:13','I love this article :) I love the honesty and insight into the real marriage of two people who are best friends.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(182,1430,'Jessica','jessicams87@hotmail.com','','98.31.35.12','2011-10-31 13:00:47','2011-10-31 20:00:47','Great read!',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/4.0; SLCC1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.21022; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; InfoPath.2; .NET4.0C)','',0,0),(183,1550,'Pat Pope','pmpope68@yahoo.com','','75.94.167.33','2011-10-31 13:02:48','2011-10-31 20:02:48','AMEN!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(184,1550,'LLM','boblaura@charter.net','http://lightenough.wordpress.com','71.85.8.188','2011-10-31 13:23:15','2011-10-31 20:23:15','Thanks for speaking out on this glaring inconsistency!  We need more men willing to do so. (When only women speak out, it confirms the complementarians fears that upstart women will take over the church! haha.)  It is truly sad that so much of the church is missing out on the gifted women leaders in their midst, who must use their gifts in the secular world instead.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,0),(185,1067,'Laura Droege','laura_droege@bellsouth.net','http://lauradroege.wordpress.com','98.67.99.130','2011-10-31 13:25:15','2011-10-31 20:25:15','Thank you for posting this, Joy. Andrea\'s story has always had a powerful impact on me. She was so severely mentally ill--schiozophrenia and bipolar disorder, if I recall correctly--and she didn\'t have a lifestyle that was conducive to staying mentally stable. (I seem to remember hearing that at one point, they lived in a schoolbus, and her husband said he never changed diapers!) I\'m bipolar (type 2) but thankfully I\'ve never suffered as horribly as she apparently did. \r\n\r\nIt\'s bizarre to me that very few people admit that pregnancy and parenting isn\'t always fabulous. My pregnancies were very difficult, particularly the first one, pre-diagnosis; what made the first one truly horrible was the feeling of being alone in our church. No one wanted to hear me say that I was depressed. Even the pregnancy manuals I had didn\'t really address being pregnant with a mental disorder. (The second pregnancy was better, thanks in no small part to a caring church and a great ob-gyn and great psychiatrist!)\r\n\r\nIf we Christians want to truly change the world and help others, we need to do better than this. We can\'t be afraid to admit that even wonderful things, like parenthood, don\'t always feel wonderful. We\'ve got to be willing to say how we really feel and be transparent about things like this. The Not Alone book did a great job of this with depression; Joy, I really appreciated the candor in your essay.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(186,1430,'April','klkb624@gmail.com','','99.119.233.66','2011-10-31 13:46:06','2011-10-31 20:46:06','Very sweet article. I really think that first year is the toughest...and I so appreciate life\'s realities dealt with love and humor. Keep enjoying each other through thick and thin. Life is life and there will be tough times...but with your attitude, those tough times will bring you closer and closer together.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.23) Gecko/20110920 Firefox/3.6.23','',0,0),(187,1067,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-10-31 14:01:54','2011-10-31 21:01:54','Thank you, Laura.  Something I\'ve been noticing lately is a willingness for a few people to be vocal about things like this, and then other people facing the same problem speak up.  \n\nMy mother died two years ago after four years of debilitating illnesses.  My dad was her 24/7 caretaker, which really took a toll on him and aged him considerably.  Recently I read an article about a man with the same responsibility for his dad, and he had to juggle a full-time job with being a full-time caregiver, because there was no other family member to help him.  Once at a business meeting someone asked how he was, and rather than giving the normal \"I\'m fine\", he said \"I\'m exhausted\" and explained why.  Several people in the group spoke up because they were in the same difficult situation with a family member.\n\nTo be the constant caregiver for someone of any age who basically can\'t take care of themselves is draining, and that\'s compounded when there seems to be no one you can share with honestly about it.  Feeling that way about your own baby is truly looked down on, so a woman suffers alone.  I appreciate other women joining me in voicing this truth.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',185,35),(188,1258,'Evelyn Galan','ehgalanmx@gmail.com','','187.153.24.152','2011-10-31 14:26:11','2011-10-31 21:26:11','Melody,\r\n\r\nThat I haven\'t yet figured out yet.  This is all so new to me.  I have been slowly working on it and have almost finished two chapters.  I am writing a third chapter that I now want to be the first chapter.  I had never considered writing before but felt God wanted me to do this.  I am virtually unknown missionary in Mexico.  I was just recently beginning to investigate the possibilities and read about publisher\'s requirements.  It has been a fun project though and so desperately needed!  I am amazed at this theme though.  It is starting to pop up everywhere.  \r\n\r\nEvelyn',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',142,0),(189,1430,'Ryan M.','jeevesths@netscape.net','','67.149.108.241','2011-10-31 15:47:03','2011-10-31 22:47:03','Great read.  \r\n\"Live with a man 40 years, share his house, his meals, speak on every subject. Then tie him up and hold him over the volcano\'s edge.  And on that day, you will finally meet the man.\" --Shan Yu, via Firefly.  Amended, it might be \"spend time with a person in all the times when you think they\'re unguarded, talk about everything.  Then get into a real crisis.  Then you\'ll know who it is.\"  You know, now, exactly who he is.  I\'m not sure the girl married to the guy 12 years older does, not quite the same way.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(190,1420,'Being Provoketive Again | I AM NOT AFRAID','','http://namethefear.wordpress.com/2011/10/31/being-provoketive-again/','216.151.210.47','2011-10-31 16:41:16','2011-10-31 23:41:16','[...] My second post to a great new magazine &#8211; Provoketive.  The article is called Use Your Inside Voice. [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library','pingback',0,0),(191,1430,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-10-31 16:51:43','2011-10-31 23:51:43','I appreciate this post. This actually kind of speaks to me where I am at the moment as we are trying to figure out how to transition with job issues. And of course Money, the notorious M. We definitely haven\'t had the same first year as you, but in our first weeks as a couple we experienced the stomach flu and a funeral. Two things that immediately push you into the nakedness of true vulnerability.\r\n\r\nI love your writing. I\'m so happy that you\'re my friend. Great opening article, dear!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,38),(192,1420,'Kim Fricker-Horie','kimberly.horie@gmail.com','','50.98.59.211','2011-10-31 19:15:19','2011-11-01 02:15:19','You have given voice to my exact struggle right now.  Thank you for the encouraging and thought provoking words.  You are a blessing Darryl.  I hope you can get your giggle back :)',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; VER#4A#80836748566745484984484957; .NET4.0C)','',0,0),(193,1550,'G Scott','glenda-scott@comcast.net','','76.125.47.182','2011-10-31 19:26:58','2011-11-01 02:26:58','Yes, the inconsistencies are also prevalent in education. We allow women to teach academic subjects to men up through college, but in the church they cannot teach the scriptures to men. The \'role\' of women smacks of cultural interpretation, more than Biblical mandate.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,0),(194,1430,'Kaitlin Moroney','sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com','http://kaitlinallen24.blogspot.com','67.5.118.73','2011-10-31 19:36:40','2011-11-01 02:36:40','Thanks, Kaylee! Being married to my best friend is pretty rad, I must say. =)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/4.0.1','',181,78),(195,1430,'Kaitlin Moroney','sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com','http://kaitlinallen24.blogspot.com','67.5.118.73','2011-10-31 19:37:19','2011-11-01 02:37:19','Thanks for taking the time to read, Jessica!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/4.0.1','',182,78),(196,1430,'Kaitlin Moroney','sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com','http://kaitlinallen24.blogspot.com','67.5.118.73','2011-10-31 19:41:45','2011-11-01 02:41:45','Thanks for reading, April! While I\'m sure we will have more difficult years in the future (I\'d be kidding myself to think it will always be roses and sunshine!), I know that we\'ve learned how to get through them as a team and that is a priceless gift to have in a marriage.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/4.0.1','',186,78),(197,1430,'Kaitlin Moroney','sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com','http://kaitlinallen24.blogspot.com','67.5.118.73','2011-10-31 19:43:25','2011-11-01 02:43:25','Thank you for taking the time to read and comment! \r\n\r\nThat is an awesome quote.  I really think that it takes seeing people at their worst to truly be able to know them at their best.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/4.0.1','',189,78),(198,1430,'Kaitlin Moroney','sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com','http://kaitlinallen24.blogspot.com','67.5.118.73','2011-10-31 19:50:01','2011-11-01 02:50:01','Ah, yes. Jobs and money. So much fun. (And by fun I mean not.) I hope things work out well in those areas (as I\'m sure they will!) for you guys. \r\n\r\nThanks for the encouragement! I appreciate it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/4.0.1','',191,78),(199,1550,'Cody Stauffer','staucody72@gmail.com','http://wearebecoming.org','75.167.146.155','2011-10-31 19:50:31','2011-11-01 02:50:31','Mason, my friend Tom Oord has recently written a bit of a tongue-in-cheek post on his blog about this issue. You ought to check it out: http://thomasjayoord.com/index.php/blog/archives/why_men_should_not_be_pastors/',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,17),(200,1376,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.23.83','2011-10-31 21:37:49','2011-11-01 04:37:49','Deanna,\r\n\r\nYou\'ve shared a very raw story and thank you for doing so.\r\n\r\nI\'m a fallen pastor who has seen the ugly side of what I call the \"ministry culture.\" I\'ve been restored and am now active as a youth director. I\'m very nervous because I don\'t want to do a disservice to any of the kids under my watch.\r\n\r\nUnfortunately, your story is being repeated over and over across the country. It\'s a symptom of a larger problem. It\'s the machine of the \"ministry.\" I don\'t believe it\'s what Christ had in mind when He laid his life down for the church. You and others are victims of it, and I\'m sorry for that.\r\n\r\nThere is hope, I believe, for the community of Christ that truly wants to help and reach people. It is not the same as the mechanized structure that many have come into contact with each Sunday. My heart hurts when I hear stories like yours because I used to be part of that structure. But I do know there is hope - not in the system, but because of the person of Jesus Christ and His people.\r\n\r\nThank you for baring your heart and soul. I look forward to your last post.\r\n\r\nRay',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,12),(201,1420,'DarylJ','daryl.thomson@shaw.ca','','24.68.112.15','2011-10-31 22:09:27','2011-11-01 05:09:27','I am happy to eat more leftovers on the road less traveled as it leads towards authenticity, my friend.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,0),(202,1531,'C','augi6555@gmail.com','','201.171.11.135','2011-10-31 22:36:15','2011-11-01 05:36:15','I will never look at that big orange squash or this season the same ever again. :)  I knew there was a reason i called all my little beloved ones \"Pumpkin\" (my children, each one in turn  :)   Thank you, Anna.  I think \"Hollow me hollow me Follow me follow me.\" will be my new favorite call and response.  You\'re definitely a shiny one. Shine on! Shine on! - C',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.21.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.5 Safari/533.21.1','',0,0),(203,1430,'John Martinez','John@thedistillerychurch.org','http://indiefaith.org','74.67.52.50','2011-10-31 22:58:47','2011-11-01 05:58:47','Nice read Kaitlin.  It takes me back to when I was first married to my wife, way back in 19...    Well it was a few years ago now,  She was 17, and I had just turned 20.  We had no other reason to be married at the time except that i was in the military  and was being stationed hundreds of miles away and we really wanted to be together.\r\n\r\nAll of our friends and family were against it, but we did it anyway (eloped).  My income back in 1986 was 600 bucks a month, and no the cost of living was not THAT much different back then.  We lived in a 200 dollar a month apartment all bills paid, and ate a lot of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.\r\n\r\nAt the time we lived in Mississippi and my family and hers was in Texas, so all we had was each other, no money and well, each other.  It was awesome.  I think you are right that when a young couple is forced to live together in such a way it creates a sort of concrete bond -- or kills both of them in some way.  \r\n\r\nFor us, it was a bond that would take us through the hardest times around years 5, 7, 10 and 14.   Tenacity is somehow sewn in the bones from these experiences.  Looking back, you are also correct, we wouldn\'t have had it any other way.\r\n\r\nThanks again for the post.  It brings back some good memories.  Like the times that I taught her how to drive in a crappy old truck with a three speed shifter on the floor and a motor that was too big and too powerful to ease off the clutch going up and down some crazy hills leading up to dangerous busy intersections.  :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,4),(204,1550,'Writing about Gender Roles for Provoketive Magazine &laquo; New Ways Forward','','http://masonslater.com/2011/11/01/writing-about-gender-roles-for-provoketive-magazine/','72.232.7.93','2011-11-01 02:05:03','2011-11-01 09:05:03','[...] my post Bachmann, Liberty U, and Women in Ministry is being featured at Provoketive [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library','pingback',0,0),(205,1376,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','68.73.44.130','2011-11-01 07:57:41','2011-11-01 14:57:41','Kait, thanks!\r\n\r\nI\'ve heard similar stories with the whole \"asking permission\" thing. I think people can take things a little too personally when it comes to church. Your parents weren\'t leaving because they wanted to \"disobey\" the leadership. They left because they felt it was no longer healthy or productive for them to be there. Church is a growing, moving, living tiny section of a great body at hand. And so, when someone gets upset that they\'re leaving... It\'s not a fancy club or student counsel. It\'s just one more local set of believers. Your parents should have received encouragement to find where they could feel safe and healthy, not had the pastor fathering them by telling them they didn\'t \"ask his permission.\"\r\n\r\nAnd no, not a good way to convince people.\r\n\r\nBelieve me, I share your hesitation. Right now we\'re going to a church mainly for our friends, and I have to calm my insides down that they aren\'t trying to trap us into membership or anything. They are nice people and all... But so were the people at the place I came from. Or so I thought. I feel kind of sad for myself when it comes down to that, but that\'s okay. It\'s where I am.\r\n\r\nMaybe we\'ll both find that awesome place someday!\r\n\r\nAnd thanks for your comments! They make ME feel not alone. :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',169,38),(206,1376,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','68.73.44.130','2011-11-01 08:03:07','2011-11-01 15:03:07','Ray,\r\n\r\nThank you for sharing part of your raw story too. And thanks for the encouragement you\'ve offered me. It\'s one thing to put your story out there... It\'s another to receive such kind comments as yours to help bolster the courage to keep going.\r\n\r\n\"I’m very nervous because I don’t want to do a disservice to any of the kids under my watch.\"\r\n\r\nI think this is a good thing. Nervousness can be useful. In this case, the fact that you have seen the ugly side of things before and are aware of how heart-breaking and nasty it can get, you can be more aware of how you are in relation to the kids you are working with.\r\n\r\nThe machine of ministry... Hm. I\'d love to hear you elaborate on what that means. I have a pretty good idea but I\'d love to hear your take.\r\n\r\n\"But I do know there is hope – not in the system, but because of the person of Jesus Christ and His people.\"\r\n\r\nThis is what has given me hope to. I had lunch with an old friend not too long ago, and I told him I had left my church. He was rather surprised. I told him I hadn\'t left religion altogether because there was something in Jesus\' story that I wanted to hold onto. He was a remarkable individual who showed radical, scandalous compassion and love. That\'s what I want to be. If that\'s all Christianity can be for me right now, I think that\'s okay. (Considering that\'s the whole point anyway!)\r\n\r\nThanks for commenting. I deeply appreciate what you\'ve said, Ray!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,38),(207,1430,'Michelle Allen','allenschoolgirl@gmail.com','','63.174.56.88','2011-11-01 12:40:14','2011-11-01 19:40:14','Great article Kaitlin! Many people criticize getting married so young because they aren\'t financially secure, finished with their education, have a good job or just aren\'t mature enough. None of these things seem to matter much when you go through hard times.  An education, savings account and job don\'t prepare you for the really tough times. And there is nothing like really tough times to make us all feel \"immature\" in handling the situation. I know I still feel that way and I am over 40. What you have been through will help prepare you for the future (although Lord willing you will not have many hard times).',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_1) AppleWebKit/534.48.3 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Safari/534.48.3','',0,0),(208,1550,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2011-11-01 14:11:13','2011-11-01 21:11:13','Well, ahem, I\'m only reading this now.  Your title turned me off to wanting to read it, with Michelle Bachman in it, and I almost clicked anyway the other day ...  \r\n\r\nAll I can say, cuz I\'m tired and short on words today is yep.  Inconsistent they are.  EFCA is too.  You can go to seminary, but you can\'t get ordained or pastor.  \r\n\r\nPhooey.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,64),(209,55,'John Martinez','John@thedistillerychurch.org','http://indiefaith.org','74.67.52.50','2011-11-01 14:42:12','2011-11-01 21:42:12','lol - I just realized that I categorized this post wrong, this is not about gender equality, but about orientation-equality....    heh - does it make more sense in those terms?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',68,4),(210,1550,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2011-11-01 15:52:53','2011-11-01 22:52:53','This is an excellent healing article I read today.\r\n\r\nhttp://www.patheos.com/Resources/Additional-Resources/Open-Letter-to-Women-in-Seminary-Kyle-Robert-11-01-2011?offset=0&amp;max=1',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,64),(211,1619,'Kaitlin Moroney','sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com','http://kaitlinallen24.blogspot.com','67.5.118.73','2011-11-01 17:53:05','2011-11-02 00:53:05','Oh goodness, I love this post! This is so applicable to me right now and something that I am kind of struggling with. I am married to a wonderful, amazing and very strong Christian man. I...am kind of a heathen, frankly. ;D I believe in God but am not a very normal Christian (and I don\'t\' even identify myself as a Christian anymore because...I\'m not, really). I don\'t believe in Hell. I don\'t believe in the trinity or the divinity of Jesus. I am very willing to accept that no one religion is THE WAY to worship God. I haven\'t celebrated Christmas, Easter or any other Christian holiday for over 10 years. My husband has very different views. He is much more traditionally Christian in his viewpoints. We both respect each other\'s opinions but we definitely differ in them.\r\n\r\nWe have a beautiful 7 week old daughter and since she\'s been born the realization of these religious differences has kind of hit me so much harder. What happens when my daughter wants to know what happens to bad people? What do I tell her when she asks me about something that her dad has said that I don\'t particularly agree with? \r\n\r\nI really, really want my children to learn about lots of different religions and viewpoints. I want them to learn about evolution as well as creation. I don\'t want them to be solely immersed in a single viewpoint.  I don\'t want to \'indoctrinate\' them and raise them to be intolerant or blinded to other religions. But I also struggle with the question of whether or not it will be confusing to them. \r\n\r\nI also view my husband as the spiritual leader in our household. In my mind, his beliefs take precedent over mine as far as what our children will be taught. I\'ve come to the conclusion that we will probably be celebrating Christian holidays that I am slightly uncomfortable with. And I\'m okay with that. As long as I don\'t have to keep quiet about what *I* believe. But I don\'t know how to present my viewpoints to my children without either confusing them or seeming like I am trying to belittle or dismiss what their father believes. I do think children benefit initially from more concrete explanation, although perhaps I am underestimating them. Children always seem to be capable of so much more than adults give them credit for.\r\n\r\n\"I don’t want to raise parrots, but active-questioning-always-learning adults. This means modeling for my children that I value multiple perspectives and lines of reasoning.\" \r\n\r\nThis is my main goal for my children. I could care less if they are Christians or Buddhists when they get older, but I do want them to always be seeking. Always be learning. Always be accepting of what other people have to offer. \r\n\r\nIt is so confusing and something that weighs heavily on my mind these days. Ultimately, I think it is one of those bridges that I\'ll have to wait to cross until I come upon it. I just pray I will have the wisdom to know what to teach my daughter (and our future children) when the time comes.\r\n\r\nThank you so much for this post. I am very glad I am not alone in this struggle!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/4.0.1','',0,78),(212,1701,'Kaitlin Moroney','sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com','http://kaitlinallen24.blogspot.com','67.5.118.73','2011-11-01 18:00:16','2011-11-02 01:00:16','I dislike Christian movies as well, for the exact reasons you mention. I feel like the cheese overwhelms any message they may be trying to get across. \r\n\r\nThis is the main reason I\'ve never seen Fireproof or the new Courageous movie. I hear so many good things about them, but I\'m scared that I will just be further disappointed. \r\n\r\nI think Ben Hur should count as a Christian movie. It has Jesus in it! ;)\r\n\r\nThis film looks fairly decent, though. I might have to give it a shot!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/4.0.1','',0,78),(213,1701,'Drew','k.drew.proctor@gmail.com','http://theawesomeproject.net','70.184.187.146','2011-11-01 18:27:00','2011-11-02 01:27:00','It\'s a toss-up based on the trailer. It looks like Garden State with Jesus. Now, I like Garden State, but the trailer toes very close to the line of handling \"The God Issue\" deftly and just tacking God on to the basic indie film structure. Which is my major issue with Christian films, the formula becomes \"X Genre + Jesus!\" and like you noted it never works. I\'m already skeptical of the scene where he\'s on the stage with everyone cheering. That said, if they nail the confessional scene they\'ve nailed the movie. That story encapsulate everything that works about the book.  But after all that waffling, it is a trailer and only the marketing.  I\'ll see it, but more because I love Blue Like Jazz. \r\n\r\nAnd are we counting The Ten Commandments as a Christian movie?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_8) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,89),(214,1701,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.207.238','2011-11-01 19:52:38','2011-11-02 02:52:38','Garden State with Jesus is an apt description.  I saw Steve Taylor\'s last movie, The Second Chance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Second_Chance It bordered on good but lost the plot in the second half.  And the Ten Commandments is not a Christian movie.  It an adventure movie about the Jewish Exodus. Jesus hasn\'t shown up yet. ;-P',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',213,1),(215,1701,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.207.238','2011-11-01 19:54:04','2011-11-02 02:54:04','Kaitlin, I saw Fireproof and I have to give it kudos for trying.  Most of the film is cheese but what surprised me WAS the confession scene.  It was actually meaningful.  The rest was predictable.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',212,1),(216,1701,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-11-01 21:54:38','2011-11-02 04:54:38','At risk of sounding like a parrot, I\'m with Kaitlin and Drew. I, like you, found the book at just the right time. It solidified and articulated feelings I had. It came to me right when I needed it. \r\n\r\nThe cheese factor is also why I have avoided movies like \"Fireproof\" and \"Courageous\". While I probably don\'t give them enough credit for trying, and while I haven\'t actually seen the movies... From the trailers I get the impression that they have a crises and then have a cute Jesus fix by the end of the two hours. That\'s why I\'ve always avoided movies like those. I\'d rather spend my money on something like \"Higher Ground\" (with Vera Farmiga) that looks like it\'s not going to try to sell me an easy fix. I don\'t know.\r\n\r\nI loved the book, but was actually sad when I heard it was being turned into a movie. Like \"A Separate Peace\", I felt like the book was such an emotional, internal journey that I don\'t know how well it will translate to the screen. I don\'t know. It makes me feel funny. If I get a chance I might see it, or if someone like Drew drags me to it for a film project. But I\'m still very skeptical.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,38),(217,1619,'Cody Stauffer','staucody72@gmail.com','http://wearebecoming.org','98.246.113.78','2011-11-02 00:20:35','2011-11-02 07:20:35','Kaitlin, thank you so much for commenting. I have to tell you, I am very interested to hear more from you in the future as you wade further into this. First- congratulations on the birth of your daughter! Isn\'t it amazing how the responsibilities of parenthood really slam some focus onto things like this? To begin with, as I mentioned in my post, how do I talk about issues where I myself am not settled, or anywhere near it? I believe that modeling healthy dialogue is one of the biggest keys to this all, but admittedly, there are some things we are BOTH unsettled on, and they are already coming up because we are very much part of a community of faith with quite a few people in the congregation who are VERY settled on things- so that\'s a whole \'nother wrinkle, too, because we are active leaders in the congregation. So, that relationship dynamic is in play, too, because it isn\'t the most open community in terms of sharing doubts and questions or going against the established pat answer. So at the same time, she gets that from those who we can\'t necessarily reign in on what they teach our daughter. \r\n\r\nThanks Kaitlin, for sharing your story. Love your photostory work, also!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',211,17),(218,813,'Cody Stauffer','staucody72@gmail.com','http://wearebecoming.org','98.246.113.78','2011-11-02 00:27:22','2011-11-02 07:27:22','Ray, I just got Arkham City for my birthday on Oct. 24th- my wife got it for me because I am a Batman geek, big time. Anyway, I play it a lot, and my daughter is really into Batman now, too-- prior to this, she has watched all of my Batman: The Animated Series, and loves to play Lego Batman. She also loves watching me play Arkham Asylum and Arkham City. It actually has been really interesting for her to dissect catwoman and her personality, because she knows she steals, which is bad, but she also helps Batman a lot and defends the weak- which is good. So she\'s always asking about that (and this is where I have the hardest time, because Batman and any comic related stuff in general play up some very bad images of femininity/sexuality, so that\'s the reality I am needing to deal with the most as she watches and ingests pop-media like this)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,17),(219,1701,'Coenraad','coenraad@unsafechallenge.com','','41.14.163.167','2011-11-02 01:55:39','2011-11-02 08:55:39','I would say the thing I dislike most about Christian movies is the fact that, even though it is a terrible production, other Christians will rant and rave about how good the movie was. No matter the fact that the story told is mostly the same as the previous one. I always wonder why it seems like Christian movie makers simply can\'t think of original ideas for their movies. \r\n\r\nI must say though, I also have hi hopes for Blue Like Jazz.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/9A334','',0,0),(221,1258,'Doreen A Mannion','damannion@yahoo.com','','71.178.65.51','2011-11-02 02:10:55','2011-11-02 09:10:55','Melody,\n\nJim Henderson is a friend, yet I had the same initial reaction to a man writing a book about women not having a voice, LOL. But I know Jim is the right person to write this particular book.\n\nYour posting hit me in the heart because I have so many feelings similar to yours. While my denomination (United Church of Christ) is not male-centric, many of my other \"church\"-related experiences have been. (I grew up Roman Catholic, for example.) My particular pains are complicated by the heterosexism I experience even while my denomination is \"open and affirming.\" \n\nI am on the path toward ordination in my denomination and am currently working on a book about my adventures. I am happy to have discovered your blog.\n\nregards,\ndoreen a mannion',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,0),(222,1553,'Marg','mmowczko@bigpond.net.au','http://www.newlife.id.au','121.216.193.161','2011-11-02 05:44:29','2011-11-02 12:44:29','It\'s interesting to me that Eve\'s deception, and Adam\'s for that matter, is never mentioned again in the Old Testament after Genesis 3.\n\nPaul is the only Bible author to mention Eve\'s deception.  Once in 1 Timothy 2:12-15,  to refute a proto-gnostic herresy that was circulating in the Ephesian church.  And once in 2 Corinthians 11:2-4 where Paul warns both men and women believers against the dangers of deception.\n\nFrom these scant references has developed a pervasive and over blown belief that women cannot be trusted to be church leaders.  Sad!\n\nI\'ve written about 1 Timothy 2:12 here: http://newlife.id.au/tag/1-timothy-212/',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(223,1701,'Drew','k.drew.proctor@gmail.com','http://theawesomeproject.net','70.184.187.146','2011-11-02 06:18:17','2011-11-02 13:18:17','I don\'t know what you\'re talking about. I would never drag you--or anyone--to a movie just so we could chat about it over microphones.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_8) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',216,89),(241,1430,'Kaitlin Moroney','sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com','http://kaitlinallen24.blogspot.com','67.5.118.73','2011-11-02 11:40:16','2011-11-02 18:40:16','Aw, thanks for sharing that story, John! I am a hopeless romantic at heart and love hearing people\'s stories of life and love. Your comment about peanut butter and jelly sandwiches reminded me of our honeymoon. We went to Disney World but barely managed to get plane tickets, hotel and tickets for the theme park so we didn\'t have much money for food. We at PB&amp;J for breakfast, lunch, and dinner for 10 days. It was fun. \r\n\r\nThanks for reading and sharing. =D\r\n\r\n(And my husband taught me to drive a stick shift as well!)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/4.0.1','',203,78),(224,1701,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','68.73.44.130','2011-11-02 07:38:02','2011-11-02 14:38:02','Coenraad, I\'m totally with you. That\'s a huge recent why I avoid those movies too. If it\'s family friendly and Christian, it\'ll get rave reviews from a whole section of people in my life. It feels like all those movies are out to do is say \"See? Christians struggle too! But then they find Jesus and it\'s all better!\" They seem to tell the same story without any true grit of real life. We\'ll see how Blue Like Jazz handles that.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',219,38),(225,1701,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','68.73.44.130','2011-11-02 07:40:47','2011-11-02 14:40:47','Really? No? You mean you wouldn\'t drag me (albeit willingly) to something like An Education so we can talk about how flustered it made me and how awkward the banana scene was? Totally doesn\'t sound like you, you\'re right. My mistake!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',223,38),(226,1553,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.207.238','2011-11-02 07:47:05','2011-11-02 14:47:05','Marg, that is an interesting observation.  Hadn\'t thought about that. Well done.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',222,1),(227,1376,'David Nilsen','flightlessd@yahoo.com','http://homekettle.wordpress.com','24.106.146.242','2011-11-02 08:27:19','2011-11-02 15:27:19','Boy, do i know what you\'re talking about. My exit from a long time church home was more recent, but still frustrating. I need to go back and read the other entries in this series.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.2; Trident/4.0; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; InfoPath.1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; MS-RTC EA 2; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; MS-RTC LM 8)','',0,0),(228,1722,'Where The Church Lost Me&nbsp;|&nbsp;Provoketive Magazine','','http://provoketive.com/2011/10/26/where-the-church-lost-me/','208.109.181.121','2011-11-02 08:36:07','2011-11-02 15:36:07','[...] Where the Church Lost Me: Part 5: Over-protective        Deanna Ogle    No comments    Share    stLight.options({ publisher:&#039;&#039;, title: &#039;Where The Church Lost Me&#039; , url: &#039;http://provoketive.com/2011/10/26/where-the-church-lost-me/&#039;, });          Cancel Reply   Leave a comment [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library -- WordPress/3.2.1','pingback',0,0),(229,1258,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2011-11-02 09:25:03','2011-11-02 16:25:03','doreen, i thank you for commenting and sharing a bit of your \"adventures.\"  and would love to know of your book when it is published.  be well, melody',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',221,64),(230,813,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.23.83','2011-11-02 09:55:22','2011-11-02 16:55:22','Absolutely. My girls went into both games with a very good understanding of modesty and where they should draw the line for themselves. In fact, when Catwoman first came on the screen, both of them said, \"she\'s immodest!\" There are other character traits later to see value in for her. And it\'s also a good reminder that it\'s reality vs. fantasy. But another good lesson is this - \"why do you think the game developers made the female characters look that way?\" Answer: \"to sell more games by catching the male eye.\"\r\n\r\nThere\'s a conversation to be had about being modest which draws the culture into it. Thanks for the question.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A334 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,12),(231,1550,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','68.73.44.130','2011-11-02 10:06:48','2011-11-02 17:06:48','Ah, what a great article. Fantastic point! I never even thought about that before. Hear hear!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,38),(232,1722,'John Shuck','johnashuck@embarqmail.com','http://www.shuckandjive.org','76.7.190.57','2011-11-02 10:11:59','2011-11-02 17:11:59','Thanks for this series of articles!   I think the church if it is going to actually have any impact will need to give permission to think and search rather than protect.\r\n\r\nBe well,\r\njohn',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,0),(233,1601,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','68.73.44.130','2011-11-02 10:24:40','2011-11-02 17:24:40','It stings a little bit to read this. Not because she divorced, but because the only thing I can when I see her wedding photos, if it was a sham, how could she do that? I always played dress up as a girl, and so if it was a sham it was just one more production to smile and look pretty at. But how could see look at herself in the mirror while wearing that wedding dress and do that? For me, my wedding was such an intimate reflection moment about myself and where my life was going. The dress begged a question of me that I really had to make sure I could answer the right way. I mean, as I turned the corner and looked my soon-to-be husband in the eye, the words \"This is it\" flung themselves all through my body. In that moment I wasn\'t able to pretend anymore. It was me, the dress holding me to my promise, and my husband.\r\n\r\nFor me to get married as a publicity stunt... It would take a serious blind eye and some anesthetizing of what I know to be true.\r\n\r\nSo on one hand, I\'m not surprised in the least. It\'s one more celebrity marriage that fell apart. One more picture in the gallery of \"Shortest Celebrity Marriages\". I don\'t even care that they got divorced because I know they don\'t take it seriously, so I\'m not offended when they don\'t. \r\n\r\nI just don\'t know how a girl could look at her wedding-dressed self and do that. I couldn\'t have. All the hopes, dreams, tears, work, love, and effort leading up to that moment, only to earn money from it? I would have to be very numb and pretend that for me, as a woman, that moment was worth nothing.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',178,38),(234,1550,'Adam','a.g.agonis@gmail.com','http://a.g.agonis@gmail.com','205.166.51.68','2011-11-02 10:35:25','2011-11-02 17:35:25','Why many Christians believe women should not be pastors is not because of their intrinsic inability to be such.  But that\'s not it at all!  We believe this way because God said so: The Apostle Paul unambigulously said women should not be in Christian roles of leadership, and that command is given as part of the Holy Bible, the Word of God.\r\n\r\nYou can argue all you want that any of the other twelves tribes would have been capable priests.  But God commanded that only Levite men be priests.  And even then, it was male priests.  And the Twelve Apostles were men.  God calls the shots.  Mary Magdaline was extremely important, as was Jesus\' mother, but they weren\'t formally apostles, either.\r\n\r\nWe drive cars on the right (in America) because the law says so.  Yes, we\'re perfectly capable of driving just as well on the left, but the law is the final word.\r\n\r\nI am a male femenist at heart.  I am dying for someone to give me a compelling reason to doubt my interpretation and believe women should be pastors.  But I\'m still waiting.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 6.0; SLCC1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)','',0,0),(235,1550,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.207.238','2011-11-02 10:51:05','2011-11-02 17:51:05','Adam, I don\'t know if you meant to sound so harsh, but you do. And I don\'t think you\'ll every find your answer with that kind of stance. \r\n\r\nI get your response, but the to base a community aspect on a cultural distinction is not the best place to start.  First the \"law\" you so aptly defend is always trumped by a single law of love.  And Paul\'s own \"commands\" are always trumped by the bigger kingdom law of love.  You\'ve chosen to see his command as universal.  I get that.  But if you do then you have to work it against Paul\'s own words elsewhere where he says, \"there is now Jew or Gentile, male or female.\" Or, \"everything is lawful but not profitable.\"  It\'s easy to agree with the prevailing notion when it suits your purposes as a male.  But when women feel oppressed by the mandate not to participate in leadership, then something is wrong. \r\n\r\nKeep searching brother.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',234,1),(236,1550,'Mason Slater','newways@ymail.com','http://masonslater.com/','76.236.190.31','2011-11-02 10:55:53','2011-11-02 17:55:53','Adam,\nPaul\'s statements are far from unambiguous. In fact, there are many contextual issues which can explain those difficult passages in quite a different light, and at many points Paul assumes women are (rightly) preaching and serving as apostles and messengers.\n\nIf you\'re honestly looking for a good case for a egalitarian reading of these passages I would recommend starting with this essay by N.T. Wright - http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Women_Service_Church.htm - and reading McKnight\'s \"The Blue Parakeet\" and Payne\'s \"Man and Woman, One in Christ\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.51.22 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.1 Safari/534.51.22','',234,94),(237,1553,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2011-11-02 11:21:18','2011-11-02 18:21:18','Gonna see if I can stir up a conversation about this on FB.  This is something I have always wondered.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,64),(238,1561,'Christy','christy.lambertson@gmail.com','','76.90.139.196','2011-11-02 11:29:10','2011-11-02 18:29:10','You said: \"My sense of people’s negative reaction to religion is that it has more to do with the way religious people sometimes act or with the way religious groups organize themselves (or fail to organize themselves) than with the language those religions seek to apply to experience of the divine\"\r\n\r\nI can\'t speak for anyone else, of course, but in my case - it\'s more the second than the first.  I was a Christian from childhood into my 30\'s, and while I have no shortage of very bad experiences with Christians and Christianity, that wasn\'t what made me jump ship.  I simply came to the realization over a period of several years that I don\'t believe the Christian narrative, and that centering my spiritual journey around Jesus just doesn\'t make any sense to me. The Christian vocabulary just doesn\'t accurately describe my experience of myself, the world, or how I experience the Divine, and really - it never did, even though I tried like hell for years to make it work.\r\n\r\nDifferent people mean different things by the SBNR label, but in my case, it simply means I\'m not an atheist or agnostic and I am not an adherent of a specific religion.  I don\'t understand why that would make anyone feel like they need to apologize for being a Christian.  And while there are some people in the SBNR camp that are very negative about Christians, my experience has been that there are a lot more who are just really into yoga or meditating or whatever, and Christianity isn\'t something they really think about much.  (I live in Los Angeles, where Christianity isn\'t as culturally dominant as in other parts of the country, which probably makes a difference.) \r\n\r\nI\'m fully capable of putting language to my spiritual experience.  Do I derive some of that language from various religious traditions? Is my experience and the language I use to describe it influenced by my experience of being an American in the 21st century?  Of course - I am not inventing my spirituality ex nihilo. I agree that there\'s no such thing as a purely private spirituality - for me, there\'s just no logical connection between that point and the need to belong to a particular religion.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/4.0.1','',0,0),(239,813,'Kaitlin Moroney','sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com','http://kaitlinallen24.blogspot.com','67.5.118.73','2011-11-02 11:31:38','2011-11-02 18:31:38','Cody-- the only reason I\'m commenting is because you mentioned your birthday is on October 24? Well mine is, too! Yay, birthday buddies! =D (And happy birthday, by the way)\r\n\r\nThat is all.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/4.0.1','',218,78),(240,1430,'Kaitlin Moroney','sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com','http://kaitlinallen24.blogspot.com','67.5.118.73','2011-11-02 11:34:47','2011-11-02 18:34:47','I agree. I got a lot of \"Aren\'t you a little young?\" and \"Why don\'t you just wait until you\'re done with school?\" questions when people found out we were getting married. Honestly, there is nothing that will make you grow up faster than facing real life with person you have committed your life to.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/4.0.1','',207,78),(242,1601,'Kaitlin Moroney','sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com','http://kaitlinallen24.blogspot.com','67.5.118.73','2011-11-02 12:03:10','2011-11-02 19:03:10','One of my friends on Facebook who recently got married just made a joke in her status saying \"I love married life! Looking forward to the next 72 days...\"\r\n\r\nShe got lots of lolz and hahahas. But then there was one comment that read \"Well if I got a 2 million dollar ring, it would totally be worth it. If not, i guess I\'ll just have to keep toughing married life out.\"\r\n\r\nIn mind mind I was like: \"...\"\r\n\r\nSeriously? Is marriage so cheap these days to only be worth a couple of millions to people? Is that lifelong commitment really such a joke? I guess divorce statistics speak to that. \r\n\r\nThis neither surprises me or makes me feel sorry for her in any way. But. It does make me incredibly sad that marriage, is yet again, treated like nothing more than an old sock to be tossed away at the first sign of a hole. Whether it was real for her or just a publicity stunt, it\'s the same. Knowing the immense amount of joy that my own marriage gives me and the amount of work and commitment that we put into our relationship, it just makes me ill that other people treat this like dirt. I almost take it kind of personally. Almost. Not quite. ;D',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/4.0.1','',0,78),(243,1722,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','68.73.44.130','2011-11-02 12:39:39','2011-11-02 19:39:39','John,\r\n\r\nNo, thank YOU for reading and voicing your thoughts. :)\r\n\r\nI 100% agree with you. Permission to think is so, so important. If people can\'t think then we\'re all just blind followers who won\'t know what to do once they encourage a non-sanitized situation.\r\n\r\nThanks for reading!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',232,38),(244,1553,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','68.73.44.130','2011-11-02 12:41:45','2011-11-02 19:41:45','I think because most people get the impression that Adam was just peer pressured into eating it. Eve was the one who fell on her own, Adam was just persuaded.\r\n\r\nGood point. There\'s so many of these things that fly under the radar that go completely unnoticed until someone points it out and you think \"Huh...\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,38),(245,1411,'This is News &laquo; logic and imagination','','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com/2011/11/02/this-is-news/','216.151.210.25','2011-11-02 13:19:55','2011-11-02 20:19:55','[...] Why Women&#8217;s Ministry is Not for Me [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library','pingback',0,0),(246,1722,'Mike Klamecki','KlamMan1@gmail.com','','71.239.120.81','2011-11-02 13:32:44','2011-11-02 20:32:44','As a pastor myself i really like what you have to say. We pastors are somewhat of a different breed which may lead to some \"controlling boyfriend\" behavior. We tend to be isolated even though we are surrounded by people. We tend to live in our small kingdoms of church walls and committees. We also are somewhat fearful of losing control so we get real competitive with other churches unfortunately .  Ive gone to lengths to repent of these things and change my behavior but they still crop up. Your article is a great reminder that the work is the Lords to control, not ours. Thank you. (Small push-back:  Even though outward performance does not a disciple make, still according to Deut. 6 and John 14:23 on and 1 John 5:3 God\'s love language seems to be obedience.  Obedience of His laws, not church culture laws of course.  So I say lets obey His commands to show our love to Him first and foremost, and the social aspects of obedience will take care of themselves.  Thanks again)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.2; en-us; ADR6300 Build/FRF91) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1','',0,0),(247,1722,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.207.238','2011-11-02 14:09:12','2011-11-02 21:09:12','Mike, thanks for adding to the conversation.  While I agree with you that God\'s love language is obedience, it\'s not to the old law but to the law of love, which informs our understanding of the Kingdom. So it\'s also important for leaders to ask if their overprotective moves are in fact love.  And it sounds like you are asking that.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',246,1),(248,1722,'Mike Klamecki','KlamMan1@gmail.com','','71.239.120.81','2011-11-02 14:44:43','2011-11-02 21:44:43','Agreed.  Thanks for the follow-up.  Pastors overprotective moves are usually either about love (like a hyper-protective parent) or about control (which is more about the pastor\'s self-love and self-preservation).  I\'ve seen some of the former (which leads to awkward church life and weird church folk) and more than enough of the latter.  Sometimes it\'s more loving to ask hard questions of our people and allow them to wrestle with the messy mysteries of Scripture or of social transformation.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X 10.5; en; rv:1.9.0.19) Gecko/2011091218 Camino/2.0.9 (like Firefox/3.0.19)','',247,0),(249,1601,'Travis Mamone','travismamone83@gmail.com','http://www.travismamone.net','69.2.182.113','2011-11-02 17:51:33','2011-11-03 00:51:33','You see this?  This is my surprised look.  :-0',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,0),(250,1722,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-11-02 20:15:16','2011-11-03 03:15:16','That\'s the awkward part about all of this for me. I couldn\'t admit to myself that these people had hurt me because they did a lot of it out of good intentions. They only wanted my innocence to remain in tact, for me to be protected from all the awful things that happen... I mean, how can I blame someone for that?\r\n\r\nBut in the end, I *was* hurt. Good intentions and loving intentions don\'t make that better or excusable. I don\'t know. I think it would be a hard balance to strike. I wish I had some nice answer for you, and I\'ve never walked in your shoes so I don\'t know what it would be like to be on the receiving end of someone like me. I guess all you can do is try your best. Be aware of the problem and try to not pass the disservice on to others. I don\'t know. \r\n\r\nThanks for your thoughts... You\'ve given me something to think about.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',248,38),(251,1561,'drdlpenwell','dlpenw01@gmail.com','http://drdlpenwell.wordpress.com','74.142.152.65','2011-11-03 09:20:45','2011-11-03 16:20:45','Christy: Thanks for giving such a thoughtful response.  As to your first thought about the way language about the divine as mediated by the person of Jesus, I hear you.  In my experience (for whatever it\'s worth), most of the people I talk to who\'ve walked away or decided against Christianity give as their reason something like \"hypocrisy,\" or \"dead ritual,\" or that it\'s \"intellectually compromised,\" etc.  I didn\'t mean to suggest, however, only that Christianity is perfectly acceptable theoretically; it\'s Christians who screw it up by failing to put it into practice--because it\'s possible to have real problems with Christianity in theory, before one ever gets to the embodiment.\r\n\r\nIn regard to your second point about the connection between using religious terms and belonging to a religion, I agree with your conclusion that doing the former doesn\'t imply a need to do the latter.  My argument is with the idea (held by many of my university students, for instance) that spirituality can be created, if not \"ex nihilo,\" then certainly unaided by anything or anyone other than individual creativity.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.202 Safari/535.1','',0,93),(252,1476,'Mary','mrieves@live.com','','75.192.138.23','2011-11-03 12:13:00','2011-11-03 19:13:00','Great article!  Pretty well states the situation.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; Trident/5.0; BOIE9;ENUSMSNIP)','',0,0),(253,1561,'Christy','christy.lambertson@gmail.com','','76.90.139.196','2011-11-03 12:20:01','2011-11-03 19:20:01','Well, that is a tendency of college students in general, I think.  I used to work at a Christian college in a program that tried to get students to integrate faith and social justice and they tended to do the same thing, albeit from a slightly different direction. \"I am going to care about the poor and no Christians have ever done that before!\"  They grow out of it eventually - or at least some do.  I guess a lot of us want to think that we are more groundbreaking and original than we really are.\r\n\r\nI think it\'s a symptom of our highly individualistic culture that many people- whether inside or outside of religion - tend to think that their view of the world and spirituality just sprang out of nowhere.  I\'ve seen the same thing with the \"Christianity isn\'t a religion, it\'s a relationship\" line - as if the way that a person interprets Jesus has nothing to do with their location in history and culture and that there aren\'t wildly varying interpretations of Christianity and what it means.\r\n\r\nAnd I think the answers you get depend on the questions you ask.  If you asked me, \"Why aren\'t you a Christian anymore?\", you\'d get one kind of answer, one that would be predominantly negative.  If you asked me, \"What does your spiritual practice look like?\" or \"How do you experience the Divine?\", you\'d get a very different sort of answer.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/4.0.1','',251,0),(254,1652,'My Awesome Daughter &laquo; The Fallen Pastor','','http://fallenpastor.wordpress.com/2011/11/04/my-awesome-daughter/','72.233.104.53','2011-11-04 08:32:34','2011-11-04 15:32:34','[...] I just wrote an article for Provoketive called, &#8220;Preteens, Peacemaing and Parenting.&#8221; [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library','pingback',0,0),(262,1722,'John Martinez','John@thedistillerychurch.org','http://indiefaith.org','74.67.52.50','2011-11-06 11:29:54','2011-11-06 19:29:54','\"Abstaining from bad things does not make you radical and it does not make you transformational; the only thing it does is make you a snob. \"\r\n\r\nI think you are right.  I totally remember being told, that I was \"being watched everywhere I went, by everyone,\"  and that \"non-Christians were watching me constantly to decide whether Jesus was worth following.and whether or not I believed by a demonstration of my witness in everything\"\r\n\r\nI never thought about it at the time, but that is a whole lot of pressure to heap onto a 16 year-old.  I mean it\'s bad enough just to be a teenager with all of the pressures and guilt and shame and disappointments and frustrations (half the time you are praying that no one \"saw that,\" but then you are telling the 16 year old, \"yeah, well now we are going to put a magnifying glass on you and watch everything you do, and not just us...  EVERYONE\"\r\n\r\nSo what does an enterprising teenager do that wants to make everyone happy and who wants to feel good around church adults, they begin to create a Christian personality separate from their own.  \r\n\r\nThis is how it starts, and usually by the time they are adults, they have a classic split personality that goes unnoticed by most Physiological practitioners because, the \"patient\" is full-aware of it, and is using their condition as a coping mechanism, and it seems to work pretty good for them, until they begin to value things like \"authenticity\" and \"transparency\" -- then they have a problem.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,4),(257,1627,'Bill Walker','williamawalkeriii@gmail.com','http://billwalker.wordpress.com','24.160.34.219','2011-11-04 18:28:29','2011-11-05 01:28:29','Thanks a lot Rod.  It\'s always so good to have your input.  I read Neil Cole\'s Organic Church right after being in Mexico City with y\'all, and that has shaped my conception of church ever since.  It revolves around everything you\'ve just named - discipleship, community and changed lives (both materially and spiritually).  And I don\'t think the two ways that you mentioned about how people are primarily impacted are too simplistic.  It seems like most stories I hear can fall into one of those narratives in some sense or another.  What stuck out to me most though maybe, out of everything you said, was the comment about transcendence in comparison to immanence.  If there\'s anything I\'ve come to take more seriously as a result of my studies, this one is it.  We need the former insofar as the latter has been unduly stressed, and in our tradition, it certainly has been.  I think that\'s exactly what I meant by having a conversion to not knowing.  It\'s just important to point out - and maybe I should have - that <em>not </em>knowing can be caused by either a lack of \"evidence\" for who God is or a saturation of evidence.  I usually mean to imply the second, which leads to our systems and categories being overwhelmed rather than emptied.    \n\nAs for Keller and Bell, well, I\'ve probably said enough about that <a href=\"http://billwalker.wordpress.com/2011/03/15/is-this-really-about-theology-the-test-case-of-rob-bell-and-tim-keller/\" rel=\"nofollow\">elsewhere</a> :)  Sadly, I\'d have to amend that post somewhat if I were to write it again, but I don\'t feel the need to comment too much further about either of them right now. Suffice it to say, Keller obviously deserves credit.  I\'ve read a few of his books, and The Prodigal God in particular really spoke to me.  On the other hand, I think he\'s been too roped into and cooperative with the neo-Calvinist/Gospel Coalition crowd, and I find that regrettable, but that is to say little if anything about the Spirit-led nature of his church\'s ministry or his own integrity, both of which I think are commendable.  Bell is on to new things soon, and I\'m sure his creative path will be blessed as well - irrespective of his eschatological hope (which I partly happen to share).  \n\nI\'m right with you on your final two remarks about experiencing God as a result of sorrow and hurt, and then about love.  Every ministry context should work from this center.  Nonetheless, I\'m continually disenchanted with the inability of so many privileged churches (though not all) to appreciate the practical implications of the socio-historical and political-economic differences between being, say, in the \"shadow of volcanoes\" (Mexico) vs. \"the shadow of Empire\" (U.S.).  Guess I\'ll just have to recommend some time in Ixtapaluca.  May God grant us wisdom indeed.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.2.23) Gecko/20110920 Firefox/3.6.23','',256,20),(258,1168,'Latest on Provoketive &laquo; unchained faith','','http://unchainedfaith.wordpress.com/2011/11/04/latest-on-provoketive/','76.74.254.91','2011-11-04 19:37:11','2011-11-05 02:37:11','[...] clamor for us to care about education and healthcare reform.  So what exactly is social justice? [read more] Share this:TwitterFacebookLike this:LikeBe the first to like this post.   This entry was posted in [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library','pingback',0,0),(259,1168,'heather','hlstyer@comcast.net','','66.87.13.228','2011-11-05 02:48:44','2011-11-05 09:48:44','The last sentence summed it up well!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.2.2; en-us; SPH-M910 Build/FROYO) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1','',0,0),(260,1168,'Mike Knox','mknox1@rochester.rr.com','','74.74.188.45','2011-11-05 06:01:22','2011-11-05 13:01:22','Hello Amy, you have another well written article!  I do have a couple of problems with social justice.   Many who advocate for social justice also are the same people who want to remove God from everything, i.e. the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag, In God we trust printed on money, complaining Congress was wasting it’s time on the National Motto…  This is arrogant and fool hardy.\r\n\r\nNext, it legitimizes bad behavior as ok; from homosexual acts to polygamy to not working hard at anything.  Where does it stop?  Believe it or not CNC shops are SCREAMING for workers but can not fill well paying jobs.  Plumbers are retiring with no one to take over (ever pay a plumber they make more then most mid-level managers).  Farmers who can not get anyone to pick their crops.  I believe it is a big misconception on American’s part that there are not good paying jobs out there, but these jobs require hard work.  There just is a lack of easy fun jobs that produce anything.\r\n\r\nLastly, do those that think the federal government really knows what is best for everyone can bring social justice to us all?  They have had some successes, defeat of Jim Crow laws, but racism in the white &amp; black communities still exist.  National Highway system being built, but that brought about smog, urban sprawl, segregated schools.  War on poverty being “fought” since Lyndon Johnson (started in the 1960’s) has accomplished the exact opposite of its goals.\r\n\r\nA sense of what is “fair” has been lost, the famous quote from John Kennedy has been reversed \"Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country\".  We are becoming a nation of “have wants” instead of a country that leads the world.  A politically correct country that only targets those that stand up and say “I believe in God” and believe His rules still apply.  We have become a fat (non pc description) lazy &amp; spoiled country who lived beyond its means for way to long.  \r\n\r\nI do not believe the government can achieve what it is being asked of it.  It has to come from local communities, like Rochester, NY, to live with in our means (notice the housing bubble did not destroy neighborhoods like other places).  Look out for those that need a hand up not a hand out (teach a man to fish and he will not be hungry again).  Stop thinking that the feds really know how to educate our children (have you heard about a survey on sexual acts being given to 12 year olds in schools?)  Take personal responsibility for your actions and realize that there are selfish people in this world and until they are separated from the rest of us we will never have social justice.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,0),(263,1627,'Bill Walker','williamawalkeriii@gmail.com','http://billwalker.wordpress.com','24.43.9.189','2011-11-06 13:23:12','2011-11-06 21:23:12','The parallels between the Social Gospel and the Emerging Church conversation are striking and interesting by the way - since you mention this also.  The biggest difference seems to me to be the way that these two movements conceive of the \"state.\"  Social Gospel folks like Walter Rauschenbush were pretty optimistic in their pre-WWI worldview about actually \"Christianizing\" the social order.  They thought the nation state could be co-opted fairly well in some respects as a tool for accomplishing things that aligned with the values of the Kingdom of God.  And with this they had an overly-realized eschatology that it in my view is indeed taken too far sometimes by emergent folks as well.  \r\n\r\nI\'d like to think that the emergent church, however - if we can speak of such a thing - with its \"missional church\" friendliness, is much more suspicious of party-politics.  This would not be to say that Christians should remove themselves from participation in activism or the electoral process - not at all - but there\'s a greater appreciation in the post-modern Christian milieu for the qualitative divide between what the church is and should be doing, and the all-too-often inherently corrupting nature of institutions with great law enforcing or law-manipulating power (i.e., corporations).  \r\n\r\nIf the government happens to be functioning properly and helping people, or even if the private sector can be harnessed to do this, it\'s seen as more of a necessary collaboration than a good one as such.  This is somewhat thanks to the influence of people like John Howard Yoder, Stanley Hauerwas, etc., and maybe post-liberalism in general (though I don\'t identify with it), but this might be too confined to the realm of academia, and I think a lot of it is just that culture, from the ground up, and in the communication age, has been changing like it always does.  Of course people tend to be ok with talking about the separation of church and state.  What we are far less aware of these days appears to me to be the need for separation of church and market.  I hope to talk about this in my next post.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.2.23) Gecko/20110920 Firefox/3.6.23','',0,20),(264,1619,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-11-06 15:02:33','2011-11-06 23:02:33','Wow, I\'m with Kaitlin on this one. I don\'t have children but I\'ve been thinking about this one a lot lately. My beliefs over the last two years have changed quite a bit. My husband and I started off much closer in beliefs and are now in slightly different places. He\'s got a much more traditional view, and I\'m wrestling with whether or not I believe in hell, whether or not I think the beginning couple of books of the Bible are literal or allegorical writing, I am gay-affirming, and I am very curious about other religions because I am fascinated by them. \r\n\r\nSo, what do I do when I have kids? Or what do I do right now? There\'s a Unitarian Universalist church about 25 minutes from me that I\'d like to try just to experience it, but I know that would make my husband uncomfortable. I guess this is definitely a conversation I need to have with him soon.\r\n\r\nAs a kid, my dad was very anti-pets. My mom would go to the pound with my sister and I, and would just bring a dog home without asking. I don\'t really think that was a healthy way to handle the situation, and so I don\'t want to do that in my spiritual life with my husband now. So, perhaps this is just a conversation I am going to have to make sure we have before we decide to procreate. \r\n\r\nI\'d love to hear more, as you figure this out in your own life, how it goes.\r\n\r\nThanks for writing this. It helps me feel less alone.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,38),(265,1722,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-11-06 15:14:03','2011-11-06 23:14:03','John, that\'s interesting. I know what you mean about a split-personality though. I think I realized I was having a problem at church (and it\'s occurred a few times in varying degrees) was when I was putting on a game face and affirming certain things in church and affirming different things in my own life. I think that\'s what eventually prompted me to leave my various places... It created too much of a dissonance for me to sit in a pew and nod my head to a black-and-white view of theology and talk about how much I disliked people who were like that in my own life.\r\n\r\nAnd yes, that is a lot of pressure to put on a teenager. It was like someone said to me about my husband\'s bachelor party before we got married: \"I was so happy we didn\'t pray. If people had seen us pray and then all the guys guzzle down their alcoholic drinks it would have made our faith look useless.\" While that was the attitude I grew up with, my gut reaction was \"Mmm... I don\'t think so. No one is watching you.\"\r\n\r\nIt\'s frustrating. It adds a hell of a lot of paranoia to teenagers. I didn\'t realize that until much later when I had to dismantle a lot of that leftover paranoia. I considered hiding some of my R rated movies, books like \"Sex, Drugs and Cocoa Puffs\", and wine bottles when certain people came to my house. But I knew that would only encourage the double-life that was so crippling to wanting to live an honest and open life.\r\n\r\nGood thoughts, John. I\'m with you. :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',262,38),(266,1619,'Cody Stauffer','staucody72@gmail.com','http://wearebecoming.org','75.167.143.189','2011-11-06 20:01:58','2011-11-07 04:01:58','Deanna, I definitely want to encourage you to go with the conversation you are leaning toward having. As I mention in my post, I do think modeling good dialogue with your partner is one of the most beneficial things you can do, and before your kids do come along, it is good to already have laid a great foundation in advance for healthy conversations. The key is to be respectful of his own journey, as well (which I suspect you would be)- and who knows? I have been surprised over and over again with where my wife is in her journey when we actually talk about it, and how much more willing to question things she is than I had previously thought she would be!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',264,17),(267,1792,'Martha Orlando','marthaorlando@gmail.com','http://marthaorlando.blogspot.com','98.242.117.104','2011-11-07 17:48:14','2011-11-08 01:48:14','In the midst of current realities, we know our dreams . . . Sounds to me, Bill, this is the time to act.\r\n\r\nI let mine alone for too long, but the Lord has put it all to right.  My work is nothing but joy!  In everything and in every day, I give thanks.\r\n\r\nMay everyone who reads this post and dwells upon it be called to follow through.\r\n\r\nOh, and fifty?  Been there, done that!  Obstacle of the mind, not of the heart. . .You are as young as you feel; trite, but true!\r\n\r\nBlessings, my friend!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,0),(268,1258,'Coming Home To Ourselves: The (Wounded) Voice of the Feminine | A Nourishing Home','','http://anourishinghome.com/2011/11/coming-home-to-ourselves-the-wounded-voice-of-the-feminine/','97.74.24.198','2011-11-07 18:38:21','2011-11-08 02:38:21','[...] came upon this article last week on The Provoketive written by Melody Hansen. I came across  it through Jim Henderson on [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library -- WordPress/3.2.1','pingback',0,0),(269,440,'wayne rumsby','wayne@rumsby.ca','','69.168.144.138','2011-11-07 19:02:06','2011-11-08 03:02:06','I\'m there with you. Somewhere along the way we turned this wonderful collection of stories into a weapon. I remember an incident when I was about eight years old. A friend and I were pushing through the crowd to get out the door after church. My friend Steve smacked me with his Bible. Suddenly a hand came out of nowhere like the very hand of God. The hand grabbed Steve and shook him like a rag doll. Then a great voice came down proclaiming his sinful disregard of the precious Word of God. \r\n\r\nRight!\r\n\r\nThere\'s a moment in The Book of Eli, near the end, when he realizes that they\'ve missed the point of what\'s in the book, because they\'ve been so obsessed with the book.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.50 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Safari/534.50','',0,0),(270,1842,'Sarah Hall','dav.sar@gmail.com','','123.49.28.91','2011-11-07 19:38:22','2011-11-08 03:38:22','Great article!  You express so well what was reality for us yesterday and I cannot seem to put into words.  We too had goats and cows downstairs that our children had petted and fed.  Our neighbours kindly shared with us, and my children showed the way in graciously accepting.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070515 Firefox/2.0.0.4','',0,0),(271,1792,'Jessica Mokrzycki','ascendingthehills@yahoo.com','http://www.ascendingthehills.blogspot.com','108.72.201.163','2011-11-07 19:39:02','2011-11-08 03:39:02','What a great article...definitely one that brings with it an encouraging message for those of us who aren\' t quite where we thought we\'d be at the present moment. One concept that helps define life that I\'ve learned exists is it\'s ever changing, impermanent structure. We tends to like to build our castles, stake our property...but we do so in the sand and become distraught when the tide comes in and washes everything we build away. We need to be flexible, be willing to learn from our mistakes and  build upon our experiences, not be set back by them because of the sheer fact that they might bear some disappointments. I like the concept of interdependence that you bring up...what a great way of looking at things!\r\n\r\nThought provoking post. I look forward to reading more in the future .',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/4.0; GTB7.1; SLCC1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; Media Center PC 5.0; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729)','',0,0),(272,959,'rumored wars','calebyates@gmail.com','','173.66.69.174','2011-11-07 20:09:46','2011-11-08 04:09:46','Dude very well said. That is such a deep revelation and I never realized that from the rich guy\'s perspective.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(273,440,'jeremyers1','jmyers@tillhecomes.org','http://www.tillhecomes.org','69.115.143.25','2011-11-07 20:12:14','2011-11-08 04:12:14','That is a great movie. After I watched it, and sat there and thought through all that the movie taught about Scripture and life and theology.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',269,34),(274,1311,'rumored wars','calebyates@gmail.com','','173.66.69.174','2011-11-07 20:20:41','2011-11-08 04:20:41','Also do not forget the fact it says to desire the gifts (hence the s) of the Spirit. Meaning do not limit yourself to one. I believe that we should not limit ourselves to just one category of a gifting. Kind of how you said it but in a different way I guess. Basically a prophet can heal and interpret tongues and speaks words of wisdom and discern the spirit. Maybe not all at once but at certain times. I do agree that we were created for certain purposes but at the same time we were created in their image. Meaning we can do what Jesus did and more, which then goes to the point of not limiting ourselves to even Jesus\' doings, which were all the fruits of the spirit and all the gifts and everything. But it all comes down to love :D',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(275,1311,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.207.238','2011-11-07 21:18:59','2011-11-08 05:18:59','\"What Jesus did and more.\"  I how I wish more could realize that.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',274,1),(276,1792,'jan','jovane4685@gmail.com','http://jovanecatharticmusings.blogspot.com/2011/11/you-tube-tuesday.html','75.92.152.63','2011-11-08 00:22:04','2011-11-08 08:22:04','Great article, I felt many commonalities. thank you for posting this, I will be reading again tomorrow..&lt;3 Jan',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(277,1842,'Marilyn Gardner','marilyngardner5@gmail.com','http://communicatingacrossboundariesblog.com','170.63.96.108','2011-11-08 05:02:21','2011-11-08 13:02:21','Thanks so much for reading and for the comment Sarah - where are you located? It is amazing what ambassadors kids can be when we let them. I hope you had a wonderful time celebrating with your neighbors.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',270,96),(278,1476,'WWWS (What Would Wesley Say)?','','http://www.butnotyet.com/wwws-what-would-wesley-say/','173.236.222.191','2011-11-08 07:27:11','2011-11-08 15:27:11','[...] week, I wrote an article for an online magazine called Provoketive titled “You Just Don’t Understand“. It was about how people of my generation don’t understand the Occupy movement. In it, I [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library -- WordPress/3.2.1','pingback',0,0),(279,1292,'wayne rumsby','wayne@rumsby.ca','','69.168.144.137','2011-11-08 07:38:04','2011-11-08 15:38:04','Jon Hunt, the big challenge is that so much of the Church, especially in the USA are the 1%. Furthermore, the problem seems to be built into the capitalist mechanism and for most Americans capitalism is the Christian way. Try asking people if they think Jesus was a capitalist. \r\n\r\nThe idea of democracy isn\'t dead, it\'s very much alive. Politics or at least the political structure is dead. Voter turn out around the globe is very low. Votes don\'t equal democracy. Votes appease the masses while the oligarchs run the world. The Occupy Movement, like the G20 protestors, speak for a very wide spectrum of disillusioned 99-percenters. \r\n\r\nMany in the middle cling to the current systems because, as with lotteries, they hope that they\'ll catch a piece, or they look at the protestors lack of a proposal, a plan, a way out. The Occupy Movement is a cry, a voice. It isn\'t anywhere on the political spectrum. It\'s not an answer, but it is democracy. \r\n\r\nRave on John Donne',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.50 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Safari/534.50','',0,0),(280,1476,'Chris Simes','chris@capitaleng.com','','75.177.181.216','2011-11-08 07:49:12','2011-11-08 15:49:12','Thanks for being one of the few voices of reason on this movement!  People who currently benefit from the existing structure are quick to mock and scorn.  Both these folks and the media are baffled by the posture of the movement, who refuse to appoint leaders and list demands.  I think the Occupy movement is very wise in these respects- as soon as you name leaders, the \"establishment\" and the media begin to look for dirt to undermine them.  And, by refusing to narrow the conversation down to a handful of points, they have managed to keep the national conversation broad and all-inclusive.  The problems are huge and deep, and this national conversation has to include all of them.  \r\n\r\nWhile the myth of the US being a Christian nation is alive and well, the truth is our national religion is capitalism, and our scripture, mouthed daily by the media, is \"the market will decide\".  Most folks even believe the Bible says \"the Lord looks after those who look after themselves\"-  its not there.  And while many Christians hear the Occupy folks talk about forgiving debt and scream \"communism!\", they go to church and pray the Lord\'s Prayer, asking God to \"forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors\".  And they never see the contradiction...\r\n\r\nOur nation is slowly waking up to the fact that \"the market\" has no inherent morals- morals have to be applied externally, through the law, through the tax code, through community pressure.  It\'s nothing new, we\'ve been doing it this way for over 200 years.  I thank God the Occupy movement is forcing these conversations.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,0),(281,750,'wayne rumsby','wayne@rumsby.ca','http://Imaginator','69.168.144.137','2011-11-08 08:00:19','2011-11-08 16:00:19','I feel the need to quote Peter Block, or was it someone he quoted, alas I can\'t find the words, but the thought is that real change starts with words.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.50 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Safari/534.50','',0,0),(282,1292,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.207.238','2011-11-08 08:08:15','2011-11-08 16:08:15','Wayne, I don\'t know if \"much of the Church\" is in the 1%.  To actually qualify, you\'d have to make 343k a year.  http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/20/news/economy/occupy_wall_street_income/index.htm\r\n\r\nI have a lot of friends who are Christian, own their own businesses, have a fairly wealthy lifestyle and don\'t come near that mark.  I live in a fairly upper middle class part of town and I don\'t know anyone who would qualify.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',279,1),(283,1292,'wayne rumsby','wayne@rumsby.ca','','69.168.144.137','2011-11-08 08:20:00','2011-11-08 16:20:00','Ooops! I stand corrected. Maybe I was thinking of the next percentile or two down the chart.  : P',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.50 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Safari/534.50','',282,0),(284,1292,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.207.238','2011-11-08 08:24:47','2011-11-08 16:24:47','I get what you are saying though.  I know of a lot of those same people who defend capitalism at the expense of people.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',283,1),(285,1292,'wayne rumsby','wayne@rumsby.ca','','69.168.144.137','2011-11-08 08:28:38','2011-11-08 16:28:38','Fact check, your CNN reference is for the top 1% of american tax payers. I was thinking globally. My point is that most of The Church in the USA is up there on the rich/poor scale, they are stakeholders in the system that the Occupiers are railing against. Therefore there is no much support within the church for those without.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.50 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Safari/534.50','',0,0),(286,1760,'Marilyn Gardner','marilyngardner5@gmail.com','http://communicatingacrossboundariesblog.com','170.63.96.108','2011-11-08 08:40:13','2011-11-08 16:40:13','I have no words other than thank you. This is the gospel message.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,96),(287,1760,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-11-08 08:49:23','2011-11-08 16:49:23','I\'m grateful that, in God\'s timing, I came to understand that.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',286,35),(288,1760,'Debby Engelbert','tazfan1822@yahoo.com','','68.170.231.69','2011-11-08 11:19:08','2011-11-08 19:19:08','Instead of wandering around the wilderness for 40 days &amp; 40 nights I decided to stay lost a little longer.\r\nJesus to me was cruel &amp; unloving towards me because if He so loved me then why didn\'t He take me up to Heave at the age of 10 months?????????\r\nNo He left me to endure more cruelity &amp; pain.\r\nI am not unique nor special in having these feelings as many have.  The truth be-known; Jesus never left I left Him.\r\nHow many more relationships have \"we\" left blaming the other for leaving???????\r\nInteresting question huh.\r\nJoy thank you for  baring yourself &amp; the rawness of your feelings.  \r\nInclusive never exclusive.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; MAEM; .NET4.0C)','',0,0),(289,1760,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-11-08 11:27:16','2011-11-08 19:27:16','I\'ve left so many relationships because it was \"their fault\".  Sometimes it was, but sometimes I\'ve just escaped to avoid dealing with things.  Our assumptions can keep us away from both people and things.  I\'m glad Jesus hung in there with me until I \"got the deal\" about him, and that\'s different for each person.  I appreciate what you said, Debby.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',288,35),(290,1760,'M. Switzer','meswitzer@att.net','','98.69.189.86','2011-11-08 16:52:19','2011-11-09 00:52:19','Thank you!!!!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.51.22 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.1 Safari/534.51.22','',0,0),(297,1887,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','68.73.44.130','2011-11-09 14:17:49','2011-11-09 22:17:49','While I understand your sentiment, I don\'t think people many times are asking the wrong question. I think people are getting the wrong answer. I don\'t think the question underneath \"Can we dry hump?\" and \"What if I orgasm?\" is \"How much can we do without feeling guilty?\" I think the actual question is \"Where is the line?\"\r\n\r\nThink about it. While most people know very well not to insert the P into the V, there are no other distinct lines for anyone. Some strict families and sects believe that any touching before marriage is sinful. Others say that basically if you don\'t put tab A into slot B, you\'re fine. \r\n\r\nHow do people determine the answer? I think generally, people WANT lines, want to obey, and want to uphold the principles they say they have in their lives. But in this case, when there are so many varying answers, how do you determine the line? I don\'t think it\'s a matter of people just trying to get around sticking to the principle, I think it\'s a matter of what it actually means, when you\'re alone with someone, to actually stick to the principle.\r\n\r\nDoes it just \"feel wrong\"? Do you wait to feel \"convicted\"? Do you avoid anything that makes you \"want more\"? Because frankly, there is nothing wrong with wanting more. Our bodies are wired for sex. It\'s biological, natural, and beautiful to want to be sexually engaged with another person. For me, just being across the room from a guy made me want more than just sitting across the room. So should I never be around guys? Should I only safely hold hands and get pecks on the cheek?\r\n\r\nFor me, growing up, I always wanted to follow that principle. Just show me the line and I\'ll stay behind it, God! But the fact of the matter is that there are not really any lines given. So how does one determine the line? Is the line, in all actuality, different for different couples? Or different people? Do you \"just know\"?\r\n\r\nMy point: people want to follow the rule, but first you have to tell the what the rule is!\r\n\r\nThis is different that something like \"Thou shalt not murder.\" Don\'t kill people. Got it. Even contemplating is very shady and almost the same thing. Those are concrete, measurable items. \"Don\'t have sex before marriage.\" Okay... So are all types of sex out? If yes, then how far does it go before it leaves the realm of making out or kissing and becoming sex? That\'s the question.\r\n\r\nI know this is getting long, but this is really a sore point for me and something I\'m rather passionate about.\r\n\r\nThe next thing is: so you don\'t have sex. I understand why the principle is there. It\'s to bond two people together and to have that special thing be the glue of the marriage that you only share with one person. That\'s all fine and good.\r\n\r\nBut what about being unprepared? When I got married I was TERRIFIED of having sex. I was told for so long that it\'s bad, that when it finally came time to do the deed, I couldn\'t even let go to enjoy myself even though I had fulfilled the marriage requirement.\r\n\r\nI\'m still wrestling with the questions and the feelings I had in the days before my wedding as a virgin: \"Why would God want me to be scared and unprepared? Would he want it to hurt? Does he want me to be miserable for the foreseeable future because I wouldn\'t know what I want or how to fulfill the needs of my partner, and that my partner doesn\'t know those things either? I know sex isn\'t supposed to be good on the first go, but seriously, it just didn\'t seem like the end could justify the means.\"\r\n\r\nI had a lot of friends who grew up in the same legalistic church I did. They stayed even purer than I did, and the struggles they had with this made them miserable and nearly broke their marriages. I\'m not suggesting the \"take the car for a drive before you buy it\" thing necessarily. I\'m also not saying that I think it should all be perfect and mind-blowing the moment you get married. But is the initial miserableness just the cost for the goodness later? Is that the point?\r\n\r\nMaybe the solution is better sexual education and an encouragement for people to understand and not be afraid of their own bodies. That\'s the only way I can see this working. Otherwise, future pure couples are going to be in for a huge, unpleasant surprise when they find out movie-caliber sex doesn\'t just happen. \r\n\r\nThose questions really bother me, and because of those questions, sometimes I wish I hadn\'t waited. I might change my mind in the future, but for right now, this is what I know. I don\'t know. I wish I had better answers.\r\n\r\nI look forward to the next part of your series! You\'ve got me hooked, obviously. :-D',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,38),(292,1760,'James','jameshholloway@gmail.com','','62.72.120.222','2011-11-09 00:50:46','2011-11-09 08:50:46','This is an amazing piece of writing!  Thank you so much for writing such a courageous article.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(293,1760,'Marty Reimer','martyreimer78@yahoo.com','','41.238.132.42','2011-11-09 02:29:45','2011-11-09 10:29:45','an amazing article!  thanks so much -- i\'m sending it to several people i know who need to hear this good news!  grace and peace to you --',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(294,1760,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-11-09 05:21:31','2011-11-09 13:21:31','I\'m becoming more and more convinced that there are unchangeable, universal truths about God, but when it comes to a intimate relationship with God, everything is personalized -- what salvation means and looks like, how prayer sounds, what a certain Scripture means.  God has very definitely put spiritual leaders in our lives to teach us about God, Jesus, and the Bible.  But none of that really matters to us deep down except the things that make a difference in our lives, that bring us love, hope, acceptance, and redemption on a very personal level.  Otherwise, Christianity is a religion, and I want no part of it, because religion is what kept me from God, even when I practiced it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',292,35),(295,1719,'Corinne Kelly Avery','corinnekavery@gmail.com','http://Rochester,NY','74.67.189.205','2011-11-09 06:25:27','2011-11-09 14:25:27','Well thought out and said Amy! You\'ve got a way with words my dear! Your insights are great! Keep on writing! <3',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(296,1719,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-11-09 07:34:04','2011-11-09 15:34:04','Thanks! :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',295,43),(298,1887,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','68.73.44.130','2011-11-09 14:29:01','2011-11-09 22:29:01','This is where the \"What father, when his son asks him for bread, gives him a snake?\" verse gets really sticky for me. (Luke 11:11)\r\n\r\nI would maybe say that perhaps everyone has to go through that awkward stage but God thinks it\'d be better to go with it with one person? But that doesn\'t make sense either because if I wasn\'t a Christian, chances are I might be with someone who\'s had sex before and can teach. And you could also work your way up to it instead of going from hand-holding and closed-mouth kisses to suddenly having sex. There\'s no transition period! (And the pressure therein might also have been contributed by society, but that\'s neither here nor there.)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,38),(299,1887,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-11-09 18:25:42','2011-11-10 02:25:42','\"Why am I committed to this in the first place?\"  The church in which I grew up said, \"Because God says so.  Case closed.  Just do it.\"  Being allergic to \"Because I said so\" rules from Authority Figures, I\'ve never let the Rule keep me from sex.  Some of that came from being raped at age four and taken hostage sexually while growing up.  Some of that came from wanting to use sex like a weapon towards men like it had been used towards me.  I also like sex.\r\n\r\nI\'ve been married several times before, but I\'ve only been monogamous in one committed relationship:  my present marriage of 12 years to my husband, Bud -- a marriage I believe will last, because we both finally married out of God\'s leadership instead of 87 other reasons and we work hard to make it work.\r\n\r\nI can\'t speak about the pros and cons of sex before marriage.  I don\'t believe that sex outside of marriage is a sin if it\'s within a committed relationship, because a legal document doesn\'t make you one with another.  Only God does that.\r\n\r\nSo why did I get legally married to my husband?  Why do I only have sex with him and no one else?  Why am I committed to this?  It\'s become precious to me, knowing he\'s the only one I share this with.  It makes me feel special.  Plus it\'s a lot less bother and drama than sleeping around!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,35),(300,1887,'Kaitlin Moroney','sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com','http://kaitlinallen24.blogspot.com','67.5.119.70','2011-11-09 22:57:41','2011-11-10 06:57:41','Deanna, I totally get where you are coming from and agree with a lot of what you are saying. I just thought I would add a thought or two of my own. \r\n\r\nFirst off, I understand the whole \"where is the line\" issue. That is something I always struggled with myself. But let\'s pretend that a line has somehow magically been clearly defined. For the sake of my argument. \r\n\r\nI don\'t think the issue is so much the staying \'pure\' for marriage and then suddenly being expected to have sex. I think the MAJOR issue with Christians today is the fact that sex is NOT talked about or explored in a healthy way. It is just ignored like it doesn\'t exist. It\'s a dirty, evil thing that you should stay away from. I think one of the huge things that would help with the issue of the magical jump from \"evil, sex is bad\" to \"mind-blowing orgasmic marriage sex euphoria\" is just talking about it. There needs to be discussion about how to develop a healthy sexual relationship. About how to communicate your desires and needs to the other person. \r\n\r\nAnd frankly, how to go about pleasing the other person. I\'m sorry, but women have complicated bodies and men don\'t always get that it takes a little bit more for women to get pleasure out of the experience. I think education in that area needs to happen in order for a healthy sexual relationship to take place. (Or at least education on how to educate yourself about it. Almost all that I know about sex from internet articles and such because I wasn\'t getting it anywhere else.) \r\n\r\nRight now, Christian teens are not getting that education needed for developing healthy sexuality. So what are they doing? They are turning to other places searching for answers (hence porn addictions). They either get the Christian \"sex is evil\" or the secular \"sleep with EVERYONE\". Neither of which are healthy.\r\n\r\nI think both women and men need to be comfortable with their bodies. None of this \"your body is evil and just a temptation for the menfolk\" stuff. We need to realize that the human body is a wonderful, beautiful thing that we shouldn\'t be scared of. We need to be educated on how our bodies work and how the body of the opposite sex works. (I didn\'t even know what half my body parts did until I went and read article after article about female pleasure. How can I properly communicate a partner about what I want if I don\'t have a single clue about what I might want myself?)\r\n\r\nIn essence, I don\'t think the big issue is saving yourself for marriage. I think the issue is the complete lack of healthy dialogue on the subject. \r\n\r\n(The issue of what exactly does \"saving yourself\" mean is a whole \'nother issue.)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',298,78),(301,2025,'Joe Paterno and Heroes &laquo; The Fallen Pastor','','http://fallenpastor.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/joe-paterno-and-heroes/','72.233.104.120','2011-11-10 11:19:08','2011-11-10 19:19:08','[...] written a new article for Provoketive Magazine called &#8220;Joe Paterno and Heroes.&#8221; It&#8217;s less about the controversy at Penn State and more about how we view our heroes. [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library','pingback',0,0),(302,1887,'Why Are Christians Saving Sex For Marriage&nbsp;|&nbsp;Provoketive Magazine','','http://provoketive.com/2011/11/10/why-are-christians-saving-sex-for-marriage/','208.109.181.121','2011-11-10 12:12:50','2011-11-10 20:12:50','[...] Why Are Christians Saving Sex For Marriage: Part 1 &#8211; Questions [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library -- WordPress/3.2.1','pingback',0,0),(303,1826,'Marty Reimer','martyreimer78@yahoo.com','','41.238.132.42','2011-11-10 12:39:34','2011-11-10 20:39:34','hi deanna -- i love this robot-jesus idea, esp. the ken-doll picture!  this reminds me that eugene peterson explains something in the intro to The Message, that the NT was actually written in street greek, not the classical greek of the scholars and the great classic greek writers like ovid.  so it\'s perfectly valid to translate jesus robot-talk from our official translations into everyday lingo.  keep it real!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(304,1826,'Kaitlin Moroney','sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com','http://kaitlinallen24.blogspot.com','67.5.119.70','2011-11-10 16:23:36','2011-11-11 00:23:36','Flannel graphs!!! I loved flannel graphs! So much fun. \r\n\r\nYou know, you have some good points. I personally never went for The Message bible because I felt (at the time, at least) that it made a joke out of the Holy Scriptures. It made them seem...well...normal. And scripture isn\'t supposed to be normal. It\'s supposed to be hard to understand and more formal than tea with the Queen of England. \r\n\r\nBut you bring up some valid points. Food for my thoughts.\r\n\r\n\r\n(Also, am I the only one who thinks the Jesus in the featured photo looks like a girl with a beard?)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,78),(305,1760,'Lightbygrace','dinahcal@yahoo.com','','96.11.219.134','2011-11-10 16:39:08','2011-11-11 00:39:08','This is one of the most beautiful expressions of faith that I have ever read...I threw religion out of my life and ran right smack into the real Jesus (who I\'d known since I was a kid, but feared intensely deep down)....It\'s been an amazing ride ever since! Aren\'t the wrestling matches great - even when they kind of suck?? :) :) Bless you, bless you, bless you for sharing your story!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/14.0.835.187 Safari/535.1','',0,0),(306,1826,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-11-10 16:46:07','2011-11-11 00:46:07','Kaitlin, I don\'t want to imply that the way I feel is the same as everyone else. I agree with you that it probably should be different and formal and special. I think this all is just my own problem. I don\'t think it\'s anyone\'s fault, it\'s just the way I\'ve come into contact and failed to absorb what I was supposed to.\r\n\r\nAlso, I agree with you on The Message too. I thought it was a joke too. Like really? You can\'t understand what this verse is saying? Please.\r\n\r\nBut now, years later, when I struggle with feeling like the Bible is a rich book because it has such bare bones to it... I finally get it. Maybe people don\'t even need it for the *comprehension* as much as they do the emotion. I don\'t know. It\'s just interesting.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',304,38),(307,1826,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-11-10 16:52:25','2011-11-11 00:52:25','Marty,\r\n\r\nHaha, I\'m glad you like the ken-doll thing. And that\'s interesting... I didn\'t know that about The Message! That\'s very cool. I had no idea. I\'m glad this resonantes with you. \r\n\r\nThanks for reading. :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',303,38),(308,2025,'gadfly1974','gadfly1974@yahoo.com','http://nineyearbible.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-11-10 17:16:22','2011-11-11 01:16:22','It\'s easier to scapegoat a hero than hate the devil.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A334 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,0),(309,1760,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-11-10 17:44:16','2011-11-11 01:44:16','Thank you!  That just made my day!  From what you\'ve said, you would like my book, Uncensored Prayer: The Spiritual Practice of Wrestling With God.  It was through cussing God out and beating him up that I learned to respect him, because he loves to slug out problems with us, and can\'t be offended by anything we say, since he already knows what we think.  God has little resenblance to what I had always been taught, and wow am I glad!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',305,35),(310,1760,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-11-10 17:45:02','2011-11-11 01:45:02','I appreciate it, Marty!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',293,35),(311,1719,'New article up &laquo; unchained faith','','http://unchainedfaith.wordpress.com/2011/11/11/new-article-up/','216.151.210.45','2011-11-11 06:58:17','2011-11-11 14:58:17','[...] among their membership.  Sadly, some Christians already seem to be taking this idea seriously. [continue reading] Share this:TwitterFacebookLike this:LikeBe the first to like this post.   This entry was posted in [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library','pingback',0,0),(312,2108,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','68.73.44.130','2011-11-11 08:14:16','2011-11-11 16:14:16','The OP Regional reunion for the Midwest is the day after that ends. If they do this again next year, I\'ll see if I can make it out. I would absolutely love to go to this.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,38),(313,1627,'From &#8220;aha&#8221; to &#8220;uh oh&#8221; and then what? &laquo; Bill Walker | Blog','','http://billwalker.wordpress.com/2011/11/11/from-aha-to-uh-oh-and-then-what/','216.151.210.25','2011-11-11 08:52:32','2011-11-11 16:52:32','[...] is a post that went up on Proveketive.com recently which I am now occasionally writing [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library','pingback',0,0),(314,1148,'Rod Fry','rodmydancat@hotmail.com','','189.242.35.241','2011-11-11 09:44:19','2011-11-11 17:44:19','Our cultural values are reflected in our speech, little clues that reveal where our heart is.  Amazing how much we speak how much a particular gadget or article of clothing costs, where we saw it; how much we talk about stuff in general.   I often remember a phrase I saw on a refrigerator magnet here in Mexico...\"The best things in life are not things.\"  \r\n\r\nCurious, here if you ask someone here  \"what do you do?\", which is perhaps the first thing we may ask someone in the U.S., people don\'t even know how to respond.  The get-to-know-you questions here are always about your family, feelings and friendship.  That\'s not to say that people aren\'t materialistic here...but if they are, they at least try to disguise it a bit.  It\'s embarrassing to put material objects over people.  \r\n\r\nIt should be.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,0),(315,1891,'Why Are Christians Saving Sex For Marriage&nbsp;|&nbsp;Provoketive Magazine','','http://provoketive.com/2011/11/10/why-are-christians-saving-sex-for-marriage/','208.109.181.121','2011-11-11 11:36:09','2011-11-11 19:36:09','[...] Why Are Christians Saving Sex For Marriage: Part 2 &#8211; Trust [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library -- WordPress/3.2.1','pingback',0,0),(316,1148,'Bill Walker','williamawalkeriii@gmail.com','http://billwalker.wordpress.com','207.114.255.238','2011-11-11 11:59:26','2011-11-11 19:59:26','Love that about Mexico... and other cultures in the world.  It should convict us.  There\'s a lot that American Protestant and evangelical churches especially could learn from the way many Latin Americans do community.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.2.23) Gecko/20110920 Firefox/3.6.23','',314,20),(317,1891,'Anna','asnoeyen@gmail.com','','74.60.216.71','2011-11-11 12:22:05','2011-11-11 20:22:05','If the end goal is trust, are you open to the possibility that building a healthy sex life with a committed partner is another way to build trust? Trust that you can open yourself up in the most vulnerable way to another person and they will honor and respect you. Trust that your needs and desires are equally important as the other person\'s needs and desires. Trust that you can talk openly about your bodies and not be ashamed. I\'ve never tried NOT having sex as means of building trust in a relationship - I\'ve always been lucky enough to experience sexuality as a trust-building component of a growing love between two committed people. I\'m looking forward to marrying my partner of over 4 years in just a few months :) - we\'ve been living together for over 2 years. I completely trust him. I\'m not sure I would feel the same way if we did not have the intimate relationship that we do now... although I am open to the idea that some folks have built that trust minus the intimacy.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(318,2133,'Caroline Trunzo','caroline22t@yahoo.com','http://GreatArticle!','75.149.9.61','2011-11-11 12:32:56','2011-11-11 20:32:56','Could not agree with you more!  This is not something that people will ever forget about.  Unlike the so called other scandals that have gone on at other colleges/universities across this country.  This is just disgusting, something that will leave permanent scares on these victims forever.  Something that will leave a permanent scares for the non-victims as well.  I said the same exact thing the other night when watching those kids rioting in the streets at PSU.  I could not begin for the life of me try to comprehend their thought process.  Why on earth are they so upset that Joe Pa turned his head at this and chose not to do something and got fired for that?  What possible justification could these kids make up in their own heads that makes it ok for this so called ICON like Joe Pa do nothing when it came to protecting our youth?  As a mother to a small child I was appalled at their actions.  I could not get over how throughout all of that they never took into consideration the victims of this.  They never once thought about that 10 year old little boy in the shower and the pain he must of endured.  Shame on them…shame on them all.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(319,2133,'Kells','none@none.com','','98.236.204.54','2011-11-11 13:04:29','2011-11-11 21:04:29','Like I said before, the focus in this whole sordid mess should be the victims. Keep things in perspective. People should be freaking out over what transpired to those boys not who was fired or not fired. Joe Paterno is a football coach. That\'s it. I don\'t care how many games he\'s won or how long he\'s been there. In the great grand scheme of things, that means $@#% all to me. The innocence lost, the broken trust, and the lifetime of bullshit and healing that the victims are and will be going thru weighs a lot more heavily on my heart.  And bickering over why Paterno was fired and McQueary was not is a sideshow that distracts from the real issue at hand.  Some people have a real problem when their heroes or icons are exposed as human beings.  No one dare tell the emperor he\'s wearing no clothes.  I shed tears for those boys but I shed none for any of these so-called MEN in positions of POWER who did little to nothing to protect a FOOTBALL program.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.120 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(381,2207,'David Henson','bluegrassrambling@gmail.com','http://facebook.com/unorthodoxologist','24.42.177.57','2011-11-17 12:39:33','2011-11-17 20:39:33','Herzog was an ABSW grad?!?!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.21.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.5 Safari/533.21.1','',378,0),(382,2269,'Kaitlin Moroney','sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com','http://kaitlinallen24.blogspot.com','67.5.119.70','2011-11-17 13:25:19','2011-11-17 21:25:19','Indeed, Jonathan! That is another possible response to explain the Problem of Evil. One which I wish I\'d had the time/space to explore as well. \r\n\r\nAugustine of Hippo maintained that since God is perfectly good and all-powerful, there is no way he could create or allow evil in the world. So he is attributed with the development of the idea that evil is simply a lack of good. (I believe it could also be phrased like you said-- as a lack of God. Since God is the greatest manifestation of goodness and love.)\r\n\r\n\"In the bodies of animals, disease and wounds mean nothing but the absence of health; for when a cure is effected, that does not mean that the evils which were present—namely, the diseases and wounds—go away from the body and dwell elsewhere: they altogether cease to exist; for the wound or disease is not a substance, but a defect in the fleshly substance—the flesh itself being a substance, and therefore something good, of which those evils—that is, privations of the good which we call health—are accidents. Just in the same way, what are called vices in the soul are nothing but privations of natural good. And when they are cured, they are not transferred elsewhere: when they cease to exist in the healthy soul, they cannot exist anywhere else.\" -- Augustine of Hippo\r\n\r\nThank you for reading and adding your thoughts!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',375,78),(321,1891,'Deanna Ogle','outofcomatose@gmail.com','http://soullikeaspider.com','71.227.98.55','2011-11-11 20:22:31','2011-11-12 04:22:31','I understand the argument a little bit, because essentially it argues for will power and the ability to accomplish things together. But you can do that with so many other things. I also understand the \"He has the character to respect me\" thing too, because you want a guy who will be interested in what you want and will do his best to uphold it. \r\n\r\nHowever, there are plenty of people in the world who have happy marriages who lived together and didn\'t wait and built a perfectly healthy, trustful marriage together. Just because you do have sex before marriage doesn\'t mean you automatically have no trust. The two are not mutually exclusive.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',317,38),(322,1887,'Nate','nbhubbard@liberty.edu','','24.49.15.223','2011-11-11 23:05:14','2011-11-12 07:05:14','“Why am I committed to this in the first place?”\r\n\r\nBecause I have periods where I want nothing to do with God and I\'m angry at him, I have periods when I completely ignore his existence, and I have periods where I\'m overwhelmed by his love and forgiveness and continued patience with me, even if I\'ve just been allowed a taste of the natural and spiritual consequences of my sinful states of mind.  These three states directly impact how I behave towards women and how I view sexuality.  \r\n\r\n1) When I\'m angry, among other things I use sexuality as a weapon of rebellion against God, my legalistic upbringing, restrictions, rules, etc.  In my relationships, I become a lascivious, conniving, secretive, manipulative, extra-manipulative, super-manipulative, vengeful asshole.  And I\'m scarily good at pushing things further and further and getting away with more and more, mentally and physically, alone or with a girl.\r\n\r\n2) When I\'m apathetic, I just go with whatever I feel like at the moment, or whatever my girlfriend at the time wants to do.  Regardless of whether those actions are moral or immoral in themselves (I hate gray areas), my motivation in any case is selfishness, as I simply don\'t care about what God wants or what is best for the health of my relationship and the physical, spiritual, and mental health of my girlfriend.  Ironically, sometimes this is when I\'m my most sinful in this area, and yet doing the least amount of physical or thought-based sinning.\r\n\r\n3) When I\'m actively walking with God, all the questions about \"Is this too far?\" and all the debates and justifications and alterations and setting firm black lines every two weeks, all fade away.  As in, never happen anymore.  Instead, even while I\'m making out I can feel the Holy Spirit\'s presence within me, and within my girlfriend, and it creates a more intimate and fulfilling experience than has ever happened when I\'ve \"gone too far.\"  And when we\'re not making out, I can still sense him in my soul, not as an unwelcome presence or as Big Brother, but as my trusted and loved friend and ally, the one Person I long to please most.  Then, the \"good behavior\" comes about as a natural result because I don\'t have to worry about \"how far is too far\" when my actions are being guided by God and my desires for him exceed my desires for myself or my girlfriend.  I\'m still a virgin, but things can and do get hot and awesome during these times, and more satisfying short-term and long-term. Oh, and I also become a much more attentive, loving, leader-like, and caring boyfriend.\r\n\r\nSo why am I committed?  Because I know who my redeemer is, and I know that he is very real, and I know that when I\'m with him, he turns me from the despicable douche-bag I naturally am into his son.  Because feeling God\'s pleasure without legalism is like having your cake, eating it too, and sharing it liberally with everyone around you.\r\n\r\nOh, yeah, and ditto Kaitlin on the healthy Christian sex education bit.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; CMNTDF; .NET4.0C)','',0,0),(323,1550,'Nate','nbhubbard@liberty.edu','','24.49.15.223','2011-11-11 23:44:45','2011-11-12 07:44:45','Adam, I don\'t think you came across as harsh at all.  I liked your comment for its logical style and for this one simple truth: \"We believe this way because God said so.\"  Of course, there will always be different interpretations of what God said, but without the underlying desire to determine truth honestly and regardless of our own personal preferences, all Christian theologizing is meaningless.\r\n\r\nMason, thanks for posting that link; I\'m sure it will make an interesting read here in a couple minutes.\r\n\r\nRegarding Liberty: every year, the university invites every person (from the two major parties) who files with the FEC as a presidential candidate or formally declares that they are running for president.  This year, Rick Perry and Michelle Bachmann accepted. In 2008, Mike Huckabee and Alan Keyes (who gave an awesome speech) accepted.  It\'s not an endorsement of any candidate, and actually LU\'s administration goes through great pains to not endorse or belittle any candidate or even any political party (one of few good things I have to say about the current university administration).  So, while I find this article interesting, its main point is based off of a misconception.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; CMNTDF; .NET4.0C)','',234,0),(324,1717,'Read the Latest &laquo; unchained faith','','http://unchainedfaith.wordpress.com/2011/11/12/read-the-latest/','216.151.210.52','2011-11-12 07:22:06','2011-11-12 15:22:06','[...] other -isms as well), we don’t even seem to agree on a proper definition for “hard work.” [more] Share this:TwitterFacebookLike this:LikeBe the first to like this post.   This entry was posted in [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library','pingback',0,0),(325,1891,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-11-12 19:21:11','2011-11-13 03:21:11','I agree a lot with what Anna and Deanna have said.  You either trust someone or you don\'t.  Yes, trust builds a strong relationship, but has nothing to do with whether or not you have sex before marriage.  Where sex and trust intersect is when commitments are made to be monogamous in a relationship, and that very meaningful, powerful decision can be made anytime, anywhere.\r\n\r\nMy husband and I  have been married almost 12 years, and have been monogamous the whole time.  But we were just as monogamous together before we got married.  We made that decision and commitment and stuck with it.  Being married to him didn\'t earn my trust.  Keeping commitments does, about sex and everything else.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,35),(326,2030,'Why I&#8217;m Not a _______ and the New Polemic &laquo; The Fallen Pastor','','http://fallenpastor.wordpress.com/2011/11/12/why-im-not-a-_______-and-the-new-polemic/','72.233.96.175','2011-11-12 20:41:38','2011-11-13 04:41:38','[...] Check out my new blog post on Provoketive.com. [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library','pingback',0,0),(327,1983,'Marilyn Gardner','marilyngardner5@gmail.com','http://communicatingacrossboundariesblog.com','65.96.165.44','2011-11-13 04:09:27','2011-11-13 12:09:27','I cannot tell you how much this article resonated with me. I read it, then re-read, then re-read again. Went to bed, woke up and am re-reading. You have beautifully articulated the different ways people verbalize faith, what is of comfort or discomfort. I a with people who don\'t believe as I do almost 12 hours a day - the words that I have learned through the years are, to them, like speaking Martian. It has nothing to do with the sincerity of the words, it\'s that for me, they don\'t work - I am an impostor and sound like one. I live in the North East and I recognize it is a place all it\'s own in terms of faith, even charitable giving is not a tax-deductible option so you don\'t get any pretense of why you give. But your last paragraph summarized it well - your last sentence best of all \"Instead of struggling to use a voice that is not mine, to reflect a faith I could not claim...I use the one I have\" and that\'s what I have had to learn.\" I may ask to repost this...',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,96),(328,1983,'Jennifer Luitwieler','jennifer@jenniferluitwieler.com','http://jenniferluitwieler.com','99.75.33.53','2011-11-13 06:25:53','2011-11-13 14:25:53','Hi, Marilyn. There\'s something about a shared experience that makes us feel...normal. I think for me the important thing was to recognize that while my Bible study lady was different, she was most definitely not wrong. I understand the North East mind set; it is often as cold as the earth. I hope you are able to find the words that work for you and use them confidently. \r\n\r\nAs for reposting, you may definitely share the link or refer back to it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.120 Safari/535.2','',327,73),(329,1983,'Ray Hollenbach','ray.hollenbach@gmail.com','http://studentsofjesus.com','71.28.238.157','2011-11-13 07:19:04','2011-11-13 15:19:04','Thanks for a perfect Sunday-morning devotional, Jennifer. It occurs to me that some choices are out of our hands: you did not select your parents, or Rochester, New York. The Heavenly Father selected them for you. Along with the nature you received at birth, God mixed in the language of faith with which you were raised.\n\nI love this: \"I have come to believe that who we are informs how we relate to and interact with God,\" precisely because \"who we are\" is a partnership between God\'s choices and ours. Also, I\'m considering how I can decorate my office with the phrase, \"there are as many lexicons of faith as there are faithful people.\" I\'m glad that you are not only a stranger in a strange land, but that you\'ve found peace--and God\'s presence--there.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,0),(331,1553,'gliliomrittee','novosti-stroi@gmail.com','http://www.novosti-stroi.ru/','178.93.63.18','2011-11-13 08:40:22','2011-11-13 16:40:22','В наше сезон, <a href=\"http://www.novosti-stroi.ru/\" / rel=\"nofollow\">строительство</a> и строительные работы являются   \r\nодними из самых насущных видов деятельности человека.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; XMPP Tiscali Communicator v.10.0.2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727)','',0,0),(332,1553,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.207.238','2011-11-13 09:11:37','2011-11-13 17:11:37','I like to make people go, \"huh?\" ;-P',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',244,1),(380,2207,'Ulrich vom Hagen','vomhagen@gmx.net','','198.166.214.5','2011-11-17 12:22:08','2011-11-17 20:22:08','Very thought provoking interpretation of this parable. Most of the time people think and argue that Jesus speaks out against the third slave. \r\nWe hyper-spiritualize the Gospels so much that most Christians that I meet tend to think that talk of economics and politics aren’t really a part of the Gospel. In the Kingdom, God’s order in which the economics of Jubilee are supreme, there is no place for riches – a rich person must divest and redistribute – there are no rich or poor in the Kingdom – each one has enough – no one has too much. If loans are not repaid after seven years, we are to write them off. It is this equality that puts off rich people who very much need assurance that they can hold on to their wealth and still rest assured of a place in God’s life to come. Even the disciples were amazed at such talk, but Jesus gives them hope of such equality because “for God all things are possible.”\r\nWe are being asked to speak to our own reality, our own indebtedness as a society and how to see ourselves in need of Jubilee or “(re-)distribution”. Recognizing that “(re-)distribution” is a scary word that will probably turn off many, even in “the community of faith” we quite clearly need to affirm our acceptance of the axiom of equity.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.8) Gecko/20100722 Firefox/3.6.8','',0,0),(336,2207,'Fr. Scott Russell','canterburyvt@yahoo.com','','71.62.122.178','2011-11-14 10:18:43','2011-11-14 18:18:43','Excellent!  Eye-opening!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_8) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.120 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(337,2133,'Excerpts &#8211; Jennifer Luitwieler','','http://jenniferluitwieler.com/2011/11/14/excerpts/','184.168.193.200','2011-11-14 10:37:28','2011-11-14 18:37:28','[...] From Happy Valley Under a Cloud [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library -- WordPress/3.2.1','pingback',0,0),(338,2207,'Tim Rios','trios23@yahoo.com','','74.95.201.73','2011-11-14 14:41:49','2011-11-14 22:41:49','one word: dang. never heard that angle before. very refreshing thoughts. thank you.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/4.0; GTB7.1; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; MDDR; .NET4.0C; BRI/2)','',0,0),(339,2207,'Christian Salafia','christian@homebrewedtheology.com','http://homebrewedtheology.com','184.98.8.68','2011-11-14 17:17:02','2011-11-15 01:17:02','I think that all too often when western Christians, particularly in the US, read this parable they tend to gloss over the characteristics of the master and simply look at the slaves who doubled their talents to justify their own inner sense of greed.  To be honest, for a long time I was one of them.\r\n\r\nWhen one truly reads the parable, paying attention to the language of the third slave and the confirmation by the master, it turns that interpretation completely upside down.  This, I believe, is more in line with what Jesus was teaching.  None of his parables affirm the status quo, so to think that this one would is a skewed viewpoint.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,47),(379,2207,'David Henson','bluegrassrambling@gmail.com','','24.42.177.57','2011-11-17 12:05:51','2011-11-17 20:05:51','My life has never been the same since I read his Parables of Subversive Speech. Herzog\'s fingerprints are all over this. I probably should have footnoted it, since it\'s basically his interpretation. I was reading that book and taking an African-American Women\'s Literature class when I wrote this originally. It seemed to fit nicely together.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.21.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.5 Safari/533.21.1','',378,31),(378,2207,'parker','jamesryanparker@gmail.com','http://www.poptheology.com','75.33.141.153','2011-11-17 12:02:32','2011-11-17 20:02:32','Good stuff David. This was the passage for Sunday\'s service. Our minister quoted Bill Herzog, http://www.ants.edu/faculty/bio/herzog-william-r, who argues that the third slave is the voice of God. That the talents represent an unbelievable amount of wealth further reveals the economic corruption at the heart of the text.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,0),(377,2207,'David Henson','bluegrassrambling@gmail.com','','24.42.177.57','2011-11-17 11:36:20','2011-11-17 19:36:20','The bridesmaids parable is also, if memory serves, the only place in the Gospels in which Jesus condemns women. I could be wrong on that.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.21.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.5 Safari/533.21.1','',376,31),(343,1977,'Travis Mamone','travismamone83@gmail.com','http://www.travismamone.net','64.26.72.143','2011-11-15 06:15:51','2011-11-15 14:15:51','Right on!  When I read the Bible, I find that manhood is defined more by self-sacrifice and humility than testosterone.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.24) Gecko/20111103 Firefox/3.6.24','',0,46),(345,1977,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-11-15 11:10:44','2011-11-15 19:10:44','Absolutely!  I think those characteristics are important for women, too.  I see it as traits worth having, rather than the traits having gender.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',343,43),(346,1977,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2011-11-15 11:22:40','2011-11-15 19:22:40','Amen!  I wonder why you don\'t have more comments.  I\'m going to send this to my FB and see what people think.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.120 Safari/535.2','',0,64),(347,1977,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-11-15 11:26:30','2011-11-15 19:26:30','Thanks! :)  I\'m blessed to be married to a man who isn\'t concerned with whether he is a \"guy-guy\" or not; he\'s concerned with being a Godly man.  It certainly makes a difference for us.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',346,43),(348,1977,'Matthew Smith','matthew.smith.pa@gmail.com','','207.114.11.68','2011-11-15 11:30:25','2011-11-15 19:30:25','Way to go, Amy! I love your writing, and it\'s great to see you on this site. Your kids are lucky to have you &amp; AM for parents.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,0),(349,1977,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-11-15 13:08:24','2011-11-15 21:08:24','Thanks!  And we are lucky indeed to have such good friends.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',348,43),(350,2229,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2011-11-15 14:17:32','2011-11-15 22:17:32','Okay I was skeptical, but that was awesome!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.120 Safari/535.2','',0,64),(351,2229,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.207.238','2011-11-15 14:28:04','2011-11-15 22:28:04','I thought exactly the same thing.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',350,1),(352,2207,'Parable of the Talents: A Slave Narrative of Injustice and Oppression &#8230; &#8211; Kingdom of God Worship Blogs','','http://kingdomofgodworship.com/2011/11/parable-of-the-talents-a-slave-narrative-of-injustice-and-oppression/','72.249.76.134','2011-11-15 17:35:02','2011-11-16 01:35:02','[...] EXCERPTED FROM Kingdom Of God Worship source http://provoketive.com/2011/11/13/parable-of-the-talents-a-slave-narrative-of-injustice-and-oppressi... [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library -- WordPress/3.2.1','pingback',0,0),(353,2001,'David Rupert','rupzip@gmail.com','http://www.redletterbelievers.com','24.8.241.229','2011-11-15 19:06:26','2011-11-16 03:06:26','Marni \r\nI know your post is with women in mind, but men have a great deal of shame too.\r\nTo talk about it means we have to remember it -- and for me I want to push all of my shame in the deepest, darkest recesses of my mind. \r\n\r\nI pray for your project. I know it will be painful, but hopefully will lead to healign.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(354,1977,'David Rupert','rupzip@gmail.com','http://www.redletterbelievers.com','24.8.241.229','2011-11-15 19:13:41','2011-11-16 03:13:41','On the other hand, for many years men have had to endure church atmosphere\'s totally immersed in pink, chiffon, pillows and candles. The songs were about love and tenderness. Everything screamed girly-girl!\r\n\r\nSomewhere, there is a balance.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(355,2001,'marniarnold','marni@relevantbrokenness.com','http://RelevantBrokenness.com','71.68.99.224','2011-11-15 20:08:57','2011-11-16 04:08:57','I completely agree with you, David. My focus in this message was women, but it is also a message I do address with men as well. Shame knows no boundaries....however, it seems to be more of a visible issue with women than men. With men, I have experienced, it takes some luring it out of them so it can be addressed...as you allude to here.\n\nThank you for your prayers. So far, yes it has been painful...but one thing I always keep in mind, without pain, healing never truly comes. :) As long as my focus remains on Him as my target...I know everything will be alright.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',353,82),(356,1895,'Marilyn Gardner','marilyngardner5@gmail.com','http://communicatingacrossboundariesblog.com','170.63.96.108','2011-11-16 05:58:06','2011-11-16 13:58:06','You go Girl! Really well said. Here\'s to a high view of marriage and sex.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.120 Safari/535.2','',0,96),(357,1977,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-11-16 07:05:50','2011-11-16 15:05:50','Really?  I\'ve never been to a church like that.  I don\'t recall even one church being \"immersed\" in pink.  Must be a different denomination?  I\'m from a conservative mainline/evangelical background.  Trust me, there\'s plenty of guy-guy stuff in the mix.  Even the hymns are often about war/battle (\"Onward Christian Soldiers,\" for example), and there are lots of praise songs about those themes, too.  I don\'t know that there\'s anything wrong with singing about love and tenderness, seeing as that\'s how Jesus interacted with the \"worst\" sinners of his day.  On the other hand, if you mean those \"Jesus is my boyfriend\" songs, then yes.  those need to be taken out back and shot.  Although I think that\'s because I don\'t treat my relationship with my Savior as having sexual/romantic overtones.  That\'s different from \"love and tenderness.\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',354,43),(358,1887,'Austin','aleikenberry@yahoo.com','','12.189.199.68','2011-11-16 09:08:27','2011-11-16 17:08:27','So, I absolutely agree, the question isn\'t \"Where is the line\", or at least it shouldn\'t be. The question comes down to \"Why is there a line.\" The same thing comes in other areas as well... To use the analogy above, the commandment, \"Thou shalt not commit murder\" could just mean that you are not supposed to commit murder, but in the context of Deuteronomy, the command gains a lot more than that. It\'s not just that you shouldn\'t commit murder, but that you need to respect life. If your ox is in the habit of goring people, and you don\'t take care of the ox (that is, kill it), and it kills someone else, you have violated this commandment, and therefore are subject to the consequences. Jesus takes it further, loosely paraphrased, \"If you have desired someone else to no longer exist, you have committed murder in your heart\"\r\n\r\nI think the sex before marriage has the same considerations. This all comes from the basic command, \"Thou shalt not commit adultery,\" but can be stated in a positive way as well, \"Honor the bounds of the marital committment.\"\r\n\r\nViewed that way, the question isn\'t about drawing a line, it\'s a heart issue. Is dry humping your gf/bf, is orgasm, etc. the question? No, the question is, what are you doing in that relationship to maintain the honor and sanctity of marriage. If you tell me that sex before marriage honors that committment, I will tell you that you are rationalizing completely out of bounds, because you\'ve violated the foundation. If you can tell me, after searching your heart and truly allowing the HS to convict you, that dry humping honors the sanctity of marriage, I cannot convict you, but I really doubt that you have done the hard work. Much more reasonably, if you can say that physical touching (for the moment, let\'s argue outside of primary or secondary sexual features) is a way that you are honoring that commitment by being more capable of identifying what expresses love to you in the best way, I think that may be a reasonable statement.\r\n\r\nRegardless, that\'s where we should focus on, not where\'s the line, or if there\'s a line, but why are we doing it... We do it to honor our spouse and honor God by respecting the institution of marriage that He founded in Genesis.  That changes the whole conversation.\r\n\r\nAs to the sex education, that\'s why I\'m really glad that Song of Solomon is in the Bible. God does want us to enjoy sexuality and sex, but there are boundaries that make it more satisfying. Long-term monogomous relationships are the most sexually satisfying, but we don\'t hear about this in the church at large. We have become so scared that by talking about it, we will be heard to be endorsing sex anywhere at any time, that we don\'t talk about it, and thereby stigmatize it.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; InfoPath.3; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E)','',0,0),(359,1895,'Austin','aleikenberry@yahoo.com','','12.189.199.68','2011-11-16 09:33:15','2011-11-16 17:33:15','I absolutely agree, except to add this. While sex and the things leading up to sex make you feel good, the consequence may not be happiness... There\'s a reason the next day often includes the \"walk of shame.\" While there have been movies and other points made about changing the meaning, by and large everyone, even in those movies and discussions acknowledges that they still feel ashamed.\r\n\r\nIn relationships, there may not be the walk of shame, but does going down this pathway really mean more happiness, or is it more heartbreak?\r\n\r\nI love the idea that happiness isn\'t the purpose of life.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; InfoPath.3; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E)','',0,0),(360,1977,'New Post Up &laquo; unchained faith','','http://unchainedfaith.wordpress.com/2011/11/16/new-post-up/','66.135.48.150','2011-11-16 09:42:58','2011-11-16 17:42:58','[...] crossed the lines of what is healthy manhood into the dangerous waters of undefined gender roles. [more] Share this:TwitterFacebookLike this:LikeBe the first to like this post.   This entry was posted in [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library','pingback',0,0),(361,2207,'Roger Wolsey','brotherrog@hotmail.com','http://www.progresssivechristianitybook.com','67.190.6.76','2011-11-16 13:30:13','2011-11-16 21:30:13','A splendid contemporary retelling. For those who’d like to explore this approach more deeply see: nash.mst.edu.au/index.php/component/…/13-bchenoweth-thesis',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_8) AppleWebKit/534.50.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.6 Safari/533.22.3','',0,0),(362,2184,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2011-11-16 13:54:22','2011-11-16 21:54:22','Excellent.  I\'ve forwarded this on because more should think like this.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.120 Safari/535.2','',0,64),(363,2207,'Skip Higgins','higginskip@aol.com','','173.17.35.238','2011-11-16 14:09:50','2011-11-16 22:09:50','Thank you, thank you, thank you.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(364,2207,'Roger Wolsey','brotherrog@hotmail.com','http://www.progresssivechristianitybook.com','67.190.6.76','2011-11-16 16:06:29','2011-11-17 00:06:29','Drat. The link I provided above doesn\'t seem to work. instead do a web search for \"A Critique of Two Recent Interpretations of The Parable of The Talents Thesis Ben Chenoweth\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_8) AppleWebKit/534.50.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.6 Safari/533.22.3','',0,0),(365,2259,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-11-16 17:31:10','2011-11-17 01:31:10','Yes Yes Yes!  When we are taught we are worthless, we learn to practice it, and it\'s very hard to break that mindset and habit, even with God\'s help.  I talk with God a lot about this, and with other people who love me.  I have to practice loving myself, but in my willingness to keep moving in that direction, I see positive changes, though very slowly.  I don\'t quit trying and seeking God\'s help, and am grateful that I have a lot more self-esteem than I used to.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,35),(366,2001,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-11-16 17:40:32','2011-11-17 01:40:32','Marni, you would love my book, Uncensored Prayer: The Spiritual Practice of Wrestling With God.  We have similar stories, and I know well the sense of panic at following God\'s leadership to be vulnerable before the world through our writing, especially when our stories aren\'t pretty.  But without opening up, there are people who would continue feeling no one else understands.  God will use your honesty and brokeness to make a positive difference in certain people\'s lives, as well as help you in your own healing.\r\n\r\nI affirm you, girl!  Go ahead and jump into the Grand Canyon with God!  It may feel as scary as hell, but the benefits are worth it.  And so are you.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,35),(367,2207,'Mrrphh','mrrphh@gmail.com','','71.231.124.41','2011-11-16 20:29:46','2011-11-17 04:29:46','Wow.  Well.  Its been a long time since I looked into this.  Very thought- and prayer-provoking.  Thank you.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.51.22 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.1 Safari/534.51.22','',0,0),(376,2207,'backyard farmer','cjkrepel@sbcglobal.net','','141.106.34.249','2011-11-17 11:06:40','2011-11-17 19:06:40','Austin,\r\n\r\nI disagree with your take.  Parables are in different places in the three synoptic gospels.  They are arranges such that they fit the message the gospel writer(s) wished to send to their intended audience.  And there is something quite interesting about the parable of the ten bridesmaids.  It is the only parable in which the judgement of the characters is announced at the beginning of the tale.  Curious, no?  Thanks for your take on it, Dave Henson.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',369,0),(369,2207,'Austin','aleikenberry@yahoo.com','','63.240.121.193','2011-11-17 05:32:27','2011-11-17 13:32:27','I absolutely agree that this parable has been misunderstood, and I can appreciate the perspective that you have brought. I disagree about the meaning of this parable... In Matthew, this is set between two other passages - the wise and foolish virgins (or bridesmaids, or young women) before, and the coming judgment afterward. I don\'t think they can be ignored to bring a full understading of the major purpose of this passage. When I look at this parable in context, I have trouble seeing it as overthrowing the master. The master almost always represents God, and looking at this as a slave narrative suggests that God is unrighteous, not something that I can do. Plus, the foolish virgins parable has the same basic theme as this parable. There are those who act wisely to fulfill their responsibility and there are those who do not. When set against the judgment passage, the message becomes even clearer. If you don\'t do your best with what God has given you, you end up judged for your failure to act well.\r\n\r\nIn addition, chattel slavery of the 1800s in America was very different from slavery in the NT times. Yes, there were slave owners that abused their slaves at the time, but for the most part in Palestine, slaves were treated with a modicum of respect. Slaves gained honor from the master they served, often were better off than poor, free men, could reach to certain higher roles in society (While Joseph is a couple thousand years earlier, he still was the second most powerful person in Egypt), and could own property themselves. They were still people. This is the type of slavery that Jesus and Paul spoke about - the best parallel is the bond-servant from Leviticus (when you love your master so much that you want to continue to serve him, and submit yourself willingly to be a life-long slave).\r\n\r\nI believe this parable has been misrepresented in Western society to support our greed, but not because this is about passive submission to unjust slavery. Rather, this has been turned into an economic passage when economics is the tool to make the more important point. The point is that if you don\'t do the best that you can with the resources,opportunities, and time that God gives you, you need to be aware of the possible consequences.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; InfoPath.3; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E)','',0,0),(370,2207,'Dave','dhentschel@optimum.net','','96.242.94.123','2011-11-17 06:22:04','2011-11-17 14:22:04','yeah, um, good principles, but is that the right passage to draw them from?\r\n\r\nthis writer seems to be ignoring the surrounding context which identifies the master as Jesus and also teach the same principles of stewardship and readiness for his return. this seems to be a case of \"good sermon, wrong text.\" \r\n\r\n i would have gotten ripped a new one for mishandling the word of God in preaching class if I did this. like, \"Your grade is an \"F.\" Come back when you want to preach the word with integrity.\"  \r\n\r\nI\'d prefer to teach that same lesson from James 5:1-5 (or Eph 6 or Amos 5.24 or elsewhere) without undercutting my own authority source by making it say something it doesn\'t say.  while taking our stand with the oppressed, we must also take our stand for the word of God as our authority and have our feet on solid exegetical ground. otherwise I\'d say we are ironically guilty of the same kind of \"leadership without integrity\" which you are trying so hard to condemn in the article. keep your authority source in tact and just preach the word.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; HPNTDF)','',0,0),(371,2207,'David Henson','bluegrassrambling@gmail.com','http://facebook.com/unorthodoxologist','64.139.67.229','2011-11-17 06:30:04','2011-11-17 14:30:04','Austin,\r\n\r\nThanks for the hearty engagement. No doubt, there are differences between slavery in ancient Palestine and in 1800s America. But I am hesitant to paint slavery in Palestine at this time in this more positive light, particularly because of the slave owner\'s response in the parable itself (and others in the NT) that indicate that harsh physical abuse was acceptable. Slaves in this time were still property and were still, by and large, exploited. A few favored servants in this time would be more equivalent to the so-called house slaves in the 1800s in which many slave owners assumed, like in Leviticus, that their house slaves loved them so much that they would want to continue to serve rather than be free or submit themselves willing to be a life-long slave. \r\n\r\nThat kind of thinking is dangerous and comes often from the position of the powerful. Indeed, American history is littered with the narrative that slaves loved their masters and were better off with them. \r\n\r\nPlus, I\'m not interested in a race to the bottom over which slavery exploited humans more, just like I\'m not interested in the (academic) debate over which was worse American slavery or the holocaust. It\'s an invidious comparison. It\'s bad, and that\'s enough for me.\r\n\r\nI think the Parable of the Bridesmaids, too, demands to a new look, as I\'ve written about here: http://religionatthemargins.com/2011/11/breaking-of-the-bridesmaids-a-parable-for-patience-justice-and-occupy-protests/. \r\n\r\nPeace',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.120 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(372,2207,'David Henson','bluegrassrambling@gmail.com','','64.139.67.229','2011-11-17 06:32:28','2011-11-17 14:32:28','Dave,\r\n\r\nWell, it\'s a good thing I didn\'t go to your seminary. I received an A when I preached this in my sermon class.\r\n\r\nPeace.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.120 Safari/535.2','',0,31),(375,2269,'Jonathan Crouch','jmcrouch@gmail.com','','99.27.200.21','2011-11-17 10:10:17','2011-11-17 18:10:17','Perhaps evil is simply the absence of God. Those who have a belief about God as an arbitrary judge retreat into evil refusing their idea of God. Perhaps free will has to do with what one chooses to align with.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.120 Safari/535.2','',0,24),(374,1734,'Article on Education &laquo; unchained faith','','http://unchainedfaith.wordpress.com/2011/11/17/article-on-education/','76.74.248.138','2011-11-17 09:01:21','2011-11-17 17:01:21','[...] If they are unsuccessful, police officers will be fired and police departments will be closed. [read more] Share this:TwitterFacebookLike this:LikeBe the first to like this post.   This entry was posted in [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library','pingback',0,0),(383,1701,'Lee Fischer','outofaustin@googlemail.com','http://outlandish-lee.blogspot.com/','188.104.81.104','2011-11-17 14:21:53','2011-11-17 22:21:53','oh, cool. didn\'t know it was becoming a movie.  sure hope it\'s not cheesy!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(386,1013,'Morgan Guyton','maguyton@gmail.com','http://morganguyton.wordpress.com','173.73.75.39','2011-11-17 17:50:54','2011-11-18 01:50:54','Only one King gets my allegiance.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,57),(387,2269,'Morgan Guyton','maguyton@gmail.com','http://morganguyton.wordpress.com','173.73.75.39','2011-11-17 18:03:28','2011-11-18 02:03:28','I don\'t think we can improve upon Augustine\'s understanding of evil as the privation of good. I like what Jonathan said. We are evil to the degree that we serve idols rather than God with our rational choices. Our choices serve some kind of \"good\" as long as they are rational, but they are only truly good if they serve God\'s will. We can\'t even do what\'s good for ourselves without being centered around God because we otherwise serve false, socially-constructed demonic selves that the world has superimposed upon our true created selves in order to make us into consumer slaves.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,57),(388,2036,'Morgan Guyton','maguyton@gmail.com','http://morganguyton.wordpress.com','173.73.75.39','2011-11-17 18:10:13','2011-11-18 02:10:13','Thanks for struggling with this. You\'re not alone. I\'ve been having a very Ecclesiastes kind of month, feeling pretty worthless, wondering why I ever thought I was supposed to be a pastor, etc. There\'s a freedom that I experience sometimes where I\'m able to say it really doesn\'t matter if I never write the amazing game-changer book that turns American Christianity upside down. I wish I could say that I lived in that freedom all the time. Maybe one day I will.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,57),(389,2082,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2011-11-18 05:46:38','2011-11-18 13:46:38','amen sister.  as a fellow self-destructive, melancholy, bullshitter, amen!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.120 Safari/535.2','',0,64),(390,2207,'Lee Fischer','outofaustin@me.com','http://outlandish-lee.blogspot.com/','178.7.179.230','2011-11-18 08:27:07','2011-11-18 16:27:07','hi, I think that woud have been a good idea to footnote it, especially if the ideas or the new angle didn\'t originate from you.  keeps things here on the up and up and gives us readers the chance to \'follow the rabbit trail.\'  I\'ve never heard this take before, so now I will have to go back and reread the passage in context! thanks for sharing.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',379,10),(391,2036,'Brooke Eikenberry','brooke.eikenberry@gmail.com','http://30somethingcrisis.tumblr.com/','174.97.254.53','2011-11-18 09:16:52','2011-11-18 17:16:52','Morgan, I like your comments about \"freedom\"--- e.g. \"I wish that I could say that I lived in that freedom all the time. Maybe one day I will.\" Amen! This might lead into another post, but I have really been thinking about the verse from scripture, \"It is for freedom that Christ set us free\" (Galations 5:1). This is so true, yet do any of really live that out? It\'s similar to prisoners who have been in jail for years, and then they are suddenly freed; some are so unable to handle their new freedom that they purposely do something to land themselves back in the four cell walls that once imprisoned them!  I kind of think we as Christians do the same things. That\'s why it\'s so easy to fall back into old sins... or into legalism, another trap that robs us of our freedom. And, as you point out, chasing significance or success can have the same effect. In the end though, I try to think-- who had the biggest, life-changing effect on me? Was it the person who wrote the best-selling, insightful book or was it my close friend who spoke truth and life to me, or a pastor who spoke truth in love to their flock? Chances are, even if you never write the game-changer book, you were a game-changer in someone\'s life. \n\nSorry, I think I may have chased a rabbit down the trail there. I hope I caught it! ; )',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.120 Safari/535.2','',388,48),(392,2207,'David Henson','bluegrassrambling@gmail.com','http://facebook.com/unorthodoxologist','24.42.177.57','2011-11-18 11:25:08','2011-11-18 19:25:08','Thanks Lee. Herzog calls the third slave the \"whistleblower.\" I\'ve taken his inversion (that the third slave is the hero) and added my own fusion with American slavery to evoke a more emotional point whereas Herzog evoked a more corporate/business take on it, referring to the slaves as \"retainers.\" I\'ve taken his pioneering interpretation and set it against a different backdrop, slavery and added my own inferences and connections as a result.\r\n\r\nSo, Herzog\'s influence is certainly heavy, but this piece is not a wholesale retread of his work either. I should have offered this link to his book at the end of the article for those who may want additional perspective. I\'ve talked of Herzog\'s work before on my now-closed blog and at my facebook page. Connect with me there, if you like! \r\n\r\nHere\'s a link to Herzog\'s book:\r\nhttp://books.google.com/books?id=sG6Bjr7guSAC&amp;pg=PA150#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.21.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.5 Safari/533.21.1','',390,0),(393,2207,'David Henson','bluegrassrambling@gmail.com','http://facebook.com/unorthodoxologist','24.42.177.57','2011-11-18 11:27:04','2011-11-18 19:27:04','Lee, \r\n\r\nAnd please do check out my original work and interpretation, following Herzog\'s talents work, on the Parable of the Bridesmaids here: http://religionatthemargins.com/2011/11/breaking-of-the-bridesmaids-a-parable-for-patience-justice-and-occupy-protests/',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.21.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.5 Safari/533.21.1','',392,0),(394,2269,'Jonathan Crouch','jmcrouch@gmail.com','','99.34.79.31','2011-11-18 11:56:49','2011-11-18 19:56:49','It appears the God like the Sun does not choose who to favor, bless or empower. These benefits are derived from ones alignment with the Suns brilliance. The work of spirituality is not to obtain the Sun, but to remove the clouds (thought, belief systems ect.)  allowing the light to be enjoyed. \r\n\r\nI appreciate both of your comments. I find it humorous that so many people need a God to control them and others. Looking at it logically that would make God very vulnerable.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,24),(395,2282,'Susan','susan.scott11@googlemail.com','','2.221.241.55','2011-11-18 13:52:50','2011-11-18 21:52:50','Hello Marni, I have followed your blog for a little while but haven\'t had the boldness to pipe up... \r\n\r\nMatthew 18:6\r\n\'But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.\'\r\n\r\nStrong words, straight from Jesus. This discourse does not mention those who aid and abet or connive at such offences, or look the other way to protect their own position. Suffice it to say that God\'s ways are not our ways.... there is an obvious dichotomy here, and a necessary one... we need systems of earthly law and order, else the world falls into utter chaos, and society needs to be protected from those who would do harm, especially to little ones.... but as to spiritual matters, we must not get into judgement, for we are strictly ordered to not judge others; on the contrary, we must consider our own sins, whatever they may be, and remember that we all need forgiveness. I have to throw myself on God\'s mercy through the Cross every day because without it,  I\'m dead. \r\n\r\nHowever, as to interpersonal forgiveness.... I am not a mother but I can imagine at least how I might feel if my son had been (sorry) sodomized in the showers...I think I would find it almost impossible to forgive the individual responsible for such a sin, not against myself, but my innocent child. I have a hard enough time  forgiving people who offended me in a minor way, years ago... I confess I am still struggling. But Jesus says forgive we must. Let the judicial system determine guilt or innocence according to our laws, and punish if necessary, but leave Judgement of the soul to God for only He knows our hearts.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.120 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(396,2082,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-11-19 04:37:40','2011-11-19 12:37:40','I knew there was someone out there who would read it and identify!  To both of us today, Melody -- the gift of a little self-inflicted positive change, a little more self-love than usual, a little more hope at the end of the load.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',389,35),(403,2269,'Curtis Todd','curtismtodd@yahoo.com','','71.227.70.25','2011-11-19 20:56:03','2011-11-20 04:56:03','I\'m not sure that your conclusion of \"God is justified to allow moral evil\" holds.  Take the situation of an invincibly ignorant person, who has no access to Judeo-Christian revelation, and is trained in a society that contradicts Judeo-Christian morality.  As an example, Carthage was described as practicing child sacrifice.  The \"moral\" choice for a member of that society was to have their child roasted to death on a heated bronze statue.  Why would a Just God allow, even force, someone who knows no better to \"murder\" their own child in such a horrible fashion?  There is a forced evil to the parent\'s decision and evil\'s consequence is inflicted on the most innocent of victims.  \"Free Will\"  seems to be negated in this situation.\n\nI don\'t think that the problem of evil will go away or be solved. given the limited nature of human understanding and our lack of knowledge of how God actually made this existence.  The problem of evil is simply a mystery beyond full understanding at this time.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,0),(402,2269,'an agnostic','karlcwm@yahoo.com','','99.119.233.66','2011-11-19 18:41:18','2011-11-20 02:41:18','I would just like to point out the defenses put forward against the problem of evil have not actually address the main issue of the problem. indeed the defense that has been put forward are not only excepting that there is a problem, but also give a resolution afterward. You see if God must have suffering in order to attain free will then you have limited God. The problem of evil doesn\'t say a mostly powerful God it says an all-powerful God, capable of doing anything. So if you were to say that God just can\'t make the world with us having free will with out incorporating evil then you have limited God. thus the defense(s) that have been proposed have not actually know if I\'d the issue but merely came to compromise that God is not all-powerful.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.2.24) Gecko/20111103 Firefox/3.6.24 ( .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET4.0C)','',0,0),(401,2264,'Why Pastor Appreciation Is Vital To Church Health | Provoketive &#8230; | pastorleaders.com','','http://pastorleaders.com/?p=6714','72.249.104.158','2011-11-19 13:12:10','2011-11-19 21:12:10','[...] Excerpted Recommended PASTOR LEADERS article FROM http://provoketive.com/2011/11/17/why-pastor-appreciation-is-vital-to-church-health/ [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library -- WordPress/3.2.1','pingback',0,0),(588,2508,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://quietanthem.blogspot.com/','75.71.99.63','2011-11-26 13:08:34','2011-11-26 21:08:34','God\'s truth is good for strengthening. Thank you for the feedback, Patta.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',581,102),(562,2436,'Christy','christy.lambertson@gmail.com','','76.90.139.196','2011-11-22 17:43:48','2011-11-23 01:43:48','As far as dismantling goes, I would start with this:\r\n\r\n\"I think when women try to be men, they miss the beauty of what it means to be feminine. The women I know who try to compete with men inevitably miss their own humanity.\" \r\n\r\ni don\'t personally know any women who want to be men - unless you are referring to transgender people.  This argument is deeply annoying - where are these women who are trying to be men, exactly?  I\'ve never met one - and I know women who are pastors, engineers, and construction workers and in other male-dominated professions.  They all seem to still be fully human to me (although they may or may not fulfill your personal definition of acceptable gender roles.)  \r\n\r\nWomen want the same opportunities as men - we do not want to BE men.  (For confirmation of this fact, feel free to read almost every single bit of feminist theory and theology written in the last twenty years.)  If your question is \"How do we lift women up in the church while simultaneously barring them from positions of power?\", the answer is \"You can\'t.\"  Until you are ready to let go of the notion of Deity-approved gender discrimination, \"working together in harmony and congruence\" ain\'t going to happen.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/4.0.1','',560,0),(536,2361,'Lee Fischer','outofaustin@googlemail.com','http://outlandish-lee.blogspot.com/','178.2.129.186','2011-11-21 11:40:56','2011-11-21 19:40:56','hi Suzannah, yes it is a small world...especially if one is from DC!  Where is the servent leadership school?  what is your sister doing these days?  thanks for reading the post! - lee',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',509,10),(561,2436,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','76.215.211.128','2011-11-22 13:36:17','2011-11-22 21:36:17','Joy, I simply state the obvious, where men make up the predominate majority of church leadership (and almost exclusively within the Evangelical culture).',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',559,1),(412,2264,'Why Pastor Appreciation Is Vital To Church Health | Provoketive &#8230; |','','http://healthychurchnow.com/2011/11/why-pastor-appreciation-is-vital-to-church-health-provoketive/','72.249.76.134','2011-11-21 02:17:14','2011-11-21 10:17:14','[...] Excerpted Recommended HEALTHY CHURCH Article FROM http://provoketive.com/2011/11/17/why-pastor-appreciation-is-vital-to-church-health/ [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library -- WordPress/3.2.1','pingback',0,0),(587,2508,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://quietanthem.blogspot.com/','75.71.99.63','2011-11-26 13:06:35','2011-11-26 21:06:35','Anna,\n\nI believe these distortions are the work of the Enemy (Satan) who understands that if men and women operated effectively and harmoniously, churches and marriages would flourish. What better way is there to oppress people than to convince them that they aren\'t who they were created to be? We can take all this back in the power of Jesus. This is my dream: to bring Heaven to earth. \n\nThank you for your heartfelt response.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',584,102),(585,2508,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://quietanthem.blogspot.com/','75.71.99.63','2011-11-26 13:02:25','2011-11-26 21:02:25','Alice, I appreciate your reading and responding. ',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',583,102),(584,2508,'Anna','annabsn@hotmail.com','','71.216.209.194','2011-11-26 13:01:11','2011-11-26 21:01:11','\"When women take their abilities home, families are restored and strengthened. Husbands no longer seize under the pressure of unreasonable expectations, and wives are not bound under an unjust restraining order\"- I see truth in this statement. Why do you think such distortions of gender roles in marriage and the church exist, even among those whom wish to live outside such distortion?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(583,2508,'alice','alice_longaker@msn.com','','67.190.52.116','2011-11-26 11:43:07','2011-11-26 19:43:07','Carefully and thoughtfully written. I really like this:  \"It is an absolute necessity for women to speak up in their marriages, not only to enrich their relationships but also to benefit their church communities. \"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,0),(581,2508,'Patta','bhatti.patricia7@gmail.com','','70.162.171.156','2011-11-26 11:23:23','2011-11-26 19:23:23','Well spoken. When we lean on God\'s truth, it is strengthening to body and soul. Thanks for penning these words for us.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.2.1; en-us; myTouch4G Build/FRG83) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1','',0,0),(580,2491,'Marty Reimer','martyreimer78@yahoo.com','','41.232.27.90','2011-11-26 08:38:27','2011-11-26 16:38:27','where\'s the \"like\" button, marilyn?  that\'s all i need for this....\r\n\r\nlove you to the moon and back!\r\n\r\nxox\r\nm',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(579,2436,'Melody H Hanson (@melodyhhanson)','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2011-11-25 16:40:46','2011-11-26 00:40:46','I\'ve been intentionally staying out of this because based on the questions you are asking, whatever happens, this particular conversation needs to be had by men and it\'s ironic that there aren\'t many or (any?) comments from them here. Sad really. This too is a major part of the problem.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(578,2502,'Natasha','ninconnue@hotmail.com','','108.60.177.111','2011-11-25 09:19:21','2011-11-25 17:19:21','Good article!\n\nI\'m making my own version of that Facebook re-post:\n\nI push doors that clearly say PUSH- What else? When I explain why I’m laughing my friends see the funny side of life. If I walk in to a room and forget why I was there I retrace my steps and figure it out (doesn\'t everyone?). I do math problems for fun. I trust my loved ones with my pain. I say “its a long story”…Because it is. I cry a lot less than you think. I care about people who value me because I know my own worth. I am strong because I am, not just because I have to be. I listen to you, even when you don’t listen to me- once- but if you make a habit of it don\'t expect me to keep listening! And a hug doesn\'t always help. No, I’m not a girl! I\'m a woman!!! Re-post if you’re a woman and proud of it! :D',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,0),(577,2484,'Bill Walker','williamawalkeriii@gmail.com','http://billwalker.wordpress.com','24.160.34.219','2011-11-24 17:35:15','2011-11-25 01:35:15','Thanks Morgan.  I think you are right, although the simple assertion that individual responsibility is an anti-gospel might be too polemical - or at least it\'s likely to be understood that way by some.  At the same time, this is a very appropriate message for thanksgiving in light of our tendency to just univocally acknowledge that God has blessed us, personally and individually, rather than recognizing the extent to which many of these \"blessings\" are supported by unjust historical and socio-economic conditions.  I will definitely check out these links!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.2.24) Gecko/20111103 Firefox/3.6.24','',574,20),(592,2436,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-11-27 14:13:07','2011-11-27 22:13:07','Coming late to this conversation...\r\n\r\nI, too, have to take issue with the idea of women who \"want to be men\" (again, like Christy above, unless referring to transgender people).  What does that even mean?  That women want to behave in ways that men usually do?  That they have personality traits or behaviors that we typically associate culturally with men?  Because this seems to be beyond the idea that women can function in any type of work.\r\n\r\nI suspect that people are just not comfortable with the idea that characteristics are without gender--that a woman could be ambitious, driven, and powerful or that a man could be gentle and nurturing.  We imagine that even when a married couple consider each other to be equals in all things, someone has to be \"the man\" in the relationship and someone has to be \"the woman.\"\r\n\r\nMy two children both exhibit traits that are gender non-conforming.  Should I tell them that they are limited in what they do because someone might become confused that they \"want to be\" the opposite gender?\r\n\r\nUntil personality types stop having gender, this type of conversation is still relevant.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,43),(589,2508,'Mrs. Bosman','shallem@hotmail.com','','89.241.74.147','2011-11-27 09:40:54','2011-11-27 17:40:54','\"as they were meant to be.\" Across the board, don\'t you think God is calling us all into our true identities? It is amazing to watch friends from all over the world being led on this journey. Great article, Renee. Perhaps also it is interesting to also consider how women \"battle\" the silencing under great opposition, oppression from below...your next article?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(590,2508,'Andrea','aabbe@hotmail.com','','98.235.203.110','2011-11-27 12:29:22','2011-11-27 20:29:22','Powerful and freeing!  Amen.  Thank you for adding a very balanced and needed perspective on this topic.  There are certain articles that all churches need to read... :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(591,2502,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-11-27 13:55:13','2011-11-27 21:55:13','Ha!  I love it.  I may have to break my \"I don\'t forward stuff\" rule for this one.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',578,43),(573,2491,'Marilyn Gardner','marilyngardner5@gmail.com','http://communicatingacrossboundariesblog.com','98.217.52.5','2011-11-23 19:59:57','2011-11-24 03:59:57','Thank you so much for sharing. I think (dare I say it) that the wounds at Tahrir are probably less difficult than those you mention - the \'suburban\' wounds of depression, addiction and grief are so deep and take us so to the depths of our souls that walking people through these valleys and into the other side is surely being the light of Christ to them. Your church sounds like it is doing this well. Would love to drop by - used to be in the DC area a lot when our kids were at American University, though not so much anymore.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,96),(574,2484,'Morgan Guyton','maguyton@gmail.com','http://morganguyton.wordpress.com','70.63.156.165','2011-11-24 12:39:44','2011-11-24 20:39:44','There\'s nothing Biblical about individualism. The degree to which we are individualist is the degree to which our assumptions about the universe are secular. If we really believe that God\'s in charge and is our creator, then everything we have been given was given to us for a purpose. To really believe in God is to believe in divine providence rather than individual responsibility.\r\n\r\nHere are several pieces I wrote related to this topic:\r\n\r\n\"Individualism is an atheist lie\"\r\nhttp://morganguyton.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/individualism-is-an-atheist-lie/\r\n\r\n\"Ayn Rand vs. Jesus\"\r\nhttp://morganguyton.wordpress.com/2011/09/16/ayn-rand-vs-jesus/\r\n\r\n\"Tony Perkins &amp; the Anti-Gospel of Individual Responsibility\"\r\nhttp://morganguyton.wordpress.com/2011/06/12/tony-perkins-the-anti-gospel-of-individual-responsibility/',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,57),(569,2436,'Morgan Guyton','maguyton@gmail.com','http://morganguyton.wordpress.com','70.63.156.165','2011-11-23 07:49:34','2011-11-23 15:49:34','In a household or church ordered by servant leadership, it would be difficult to tell who was in charge. To be a true servant is not just to do something for other people but to submit to them. Servant leaders understand that leadership IS submission. Men appear to be \"in charge\" and \"up front\" in conservative evangelical churches because their women are exercising true servant leadership. Men should insist upon women being treated equally to avoid the spiritual peril of our own pride. I am only able to be a pastor because my wife is my chaplain.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101203 Firefox/3.6.13 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729)','',0,0),(568,2436,'Morgan Guyton','maguyton@gmail.com','http://morganguyton.wordpress.com','70.63.156.165','2011-11-23 07:40:16','2011-11-23 15:40:16','In servant leadership, there is no hierarchy, because servanthood implies not only doing something for somebody else but submitting to them at the same time. If Christian leaders are truly douloi christou (slaves of Christ) and diakonoi pantou (servants of all), then they should be the most submissive members of the congregation whose goal is that everyone else should be empowered and exalted to follow God\'s call. Thus, in a truly Christian household or church, there would not be any way of knowing who\'s \"in charge\" because everyone would be trying to exalt everybody else.\r\n\r\nMy wife is also a minister. When she and I got married, we preached a sermon together on the passage about marriage emulating the bride/bridegroom relationship of Christ and the church that patriarchal Christians love so much. I washed her feet while she talked and she washed my feet while I talked. We talked about why it was a sin for Simon Peter to refuse to let Jesus submit to him by washing his feet and how it\'s in our best mutual spiritual interests as a couple to take turns being Jesus and the church, balancing the amount that we submit to each other, because the one who is being submitted to is really the weaker party. \r\n\r\nThe original historical need for a patriarchal society is understandable. One gender gets impregnated if they\'re raped, and there were gangs of horny men wandering the streets of ancient cities (Genesis 19, Judges 19). Thus for an ancient city-state to have any kind of social order when people from different extended families were living side by side, every woman needed to be sheltered behind a father or husband. Patriarchy had a purpose, but our more developed social order has made it obsolete.\r\n\r\nI suspect that the reason some conservative evangelical women accept a patriarchal society is because it allows them to be servant leaders while the men \"get up front\" and puff up their egos. Men are the ones who are in the greatest spiritual peril in a patriarchal society. We should insist that women be given equal authority to put a check on the damnation of our own spiritual pride.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101203 Firefox/3.6.13 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729)','',0,57),(567,2436,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','76.215.211.128','2011-11-23 07:35:54','2011-11-23 15:35:54','Suzannah, this post is meant to be read and commented by anyone.  It\'s a human conversation that involves both men and women, but also involves history.  I wish gender issues were not a problem.  I sympathize with how you feel, but please don\'t exclude yourself.  If you do, you miss the opportunity to influence men with your voice.   I created this space (Provoketive) to ask those hard questions and dialogue about them.  Things still need to change. But change begins with acknowledging where we are at now.  \n\nMy comment about not being equal has to do with our differences in gender, not dignity.  If we can sit at the table as equals in value, what then does our gender mean to the conversation.  How are we uniquely designed as men and women to work together.  And I\'m not talking about a \"complimentarian\" approach where men are left with the final decision.  I\'m talking about listening deeply to each other\'s voices.\n\nYes I am speaking to men in general, specifically because men are in traditional seats of power.  But I also don\'t think men will solve the problem.  We can contribute to the solution by opening spaces for women.  Not because it\'s a duty, but because it\'s the fullest reflection of God in our midst.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',566,1),(566,2436,'suzannah {so much shouting, so much laughter}','shoutlaughlove@gmail.com','http://www.somuchshoutingsomuchlaughter.com','72.77.123.148','2011-11-23 06:09:56','2011-11-23 14:09:56','i don\'t want to fight and apologize if my comments seemed combative.  your point about raising this issue among men helps me understand part of this disconnect. is this post not intended to be read by women? it reads as exclusionary, and that is part of what commenters are pushing back against.\r\n\r\nyou said that you \"don\'t really want women to be equal in the traditional sense,\" and i read that as your not thinking/wanting women to be equal to men, because to most people, there is no such thing as traditional and non-traditional equality--either women are equal or they aren\'t.\r\n\r\ni won\'t clutter your comment section anymore and appreciate your affirming our shared worth from being made in the image of God.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.24) Gecko/20111103 Firefox/3.6.24','',565,0),(554,2361,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','76.215.211.128','2011-11-21 16:55:55','2011-11-22 00:55:55','Although I share you frustration with not being there yet, I\'ve found the more I humanize my enemy, the more there is space in my life for him/her.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',553,1),(560,2436,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','76.215.211.128','2011-11-22 13:35:15','2011-11-22 21:35:15','Suzannah, for you it may be tiresome, but I can\'t ignore that men need to have these conversations.  And what would you dismantle?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',558,1),(482,2282,'marniarnold','marni@relevantbrokenness.com','http://RelevantBrokenness.com','71.68.99.224','2011-11-21 08:10:25','2011-11-21 16:10:25','I must agree with you, Susan, in that it would be quite difficult to overlook a transgression such as what happened to these boys at Penn State to my own son. It would be very difficult, in fact...but this is where Christ, I have found out, calls us to live for Him, not for our own hearts and/or minds.\r\n\r\nOne thing I have found out about grace for us as humans...especially in the area of forgiveness and mercy...is that often times this is a process for us to go through to get to where we are living in forgiveness of a transgression that has been done to us or others we care about. It\'s never an instaneous thing for us...we need to take things in steps to get to places of forgiveness. But it will never happen if we don\'t intentionally choose the path of forgiveness from the beginning, averting judgement.\r\n\r\nIt is very tricky territory to live in this manner, for the law does work for the world - but as Christians, we live (spiritually) beyond the law. It is always a game of balance in scenarios like this.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',395,82),(564,2436,'suzannah {so much shouting, so much laughter}','shoutlaughlove@gmail.com','http://www.somuchshoutingsomuchlaughter.com','72.77.123.148','2011-11-22 19:26:32','2011-11-23 03:26:32','jonathan, men can have all the deep conversations they like, but if you can even agree that women are equal to men, will that conversation really go anywhere?\r\n\r\nyou infer quite a bit about a gendered nature of God\'s \"mission of restoration.\"  perhaps identifying the origin of some of those assumptions is a better place to start a conversation, because many believers love Jesus and the Word and don\'t read it that way.\r\n\r\nthere is certainly common ground among christians who believe differently about gender roles, but using \"maybe\" language to suggest that women have valuable contributions to make is more than a little insulting.  men don\'t need to lift up women, but if you desire restoration and you\'re stepping on us, you\'re gonna need to move your feet.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.24) Gecko/20111103 Firefox/3.6.24','',560,0),(557,2361,'Jan Fischer','janfischer66@gmail.com','http://www.reverbnation.com/lebensartmusic','178.2.128.181','2011-11-21 23:19:49','2011-11-22 07:19:49','very nice.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko)  Iron/13.0.800.0 Chrome/13.0.800.0 Safari/535.1','',0,0),(558,2436,'suzannah {so much shouting, so much laughter}','shoutlaughlove@gmail.com','http://www.somuchshoutingsomuchlaughter.com','72.77.123.148','2011-11-22 11:58:38','2011-11-22 19:58:38','how do we find ways to lift up women in the church?   you can start by dismantling 80% of the assumptions espoused in this piece.  \"i don\'t really want women to be equal in the traditional sense...\"   subjugation isn\'t silly; it\'s oppressive.  of course you are missing out on half a world of wisdom if you fail to listen to women\'s voices. this argument is tiresome.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.24) Gecko/20111103 Firefox/3.6.24','',0,0),(559,2436,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-11-22 12:54:49','2011-11-22 20:54:49','Realize that those who chose the books in the Bible were men because of historical culture.  Truly recognize women as part of the human race, not \"less than\".  Finally, in saying, \"We find a way to lift women up\", you imply \"men\".  Women need to lift women up, whether men do or not.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,35),(491,2333,'Viewing the Past in Vivid, Regrettable Color &laquo; The Fallen Pastor','','http://fallenpastor.wordpress.com/2011/11/21/viewing-the-past-in-vivid-regrettable-color/','76.74.248.136','2011-11-21 08:42:30','2011-11-21 16:42:30','[...] I published a new blog over at Provoketive Magazine &#8211; head over and check it out. [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library','pingback',0,0),(563,2436,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','76.215.211.128','2011-11-22 19:04:09','2011-11-23 03:04:09','Christy, I\'m glad you\'ve never met women who try to be men.  This was very common for me in the business world, and if that was not your experience, great.  But it was mine.  If it\'s annoying for you, then fine.  I can\'t control your annoyance.  And is this experience exclusive to women? Obviously not.  It\'s unfair to assume that I was drawing the same conclusion that all women want to be men.\nIn drawing that conclusion you missed my point.  The reflection of God exists in both genders, together, in Adam coming back as one.  My point is that we need to see both elements of the God image in our community, or we miss God\'s true reflection.\nAnd this is what I don\'t get about your pushback.  I agree that women want the same opportunities as men.  I never said differently.  But men don\'t allow that.  This was the point of the post.  And yet you pushed back on someone who was trying to state the very same thing that you desire. \nAs I said to Joy.  This is history.  Does that make it right? No.  But talking about it is the beginning of change.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',562,1),(498,2333,'Michael Levitt','levittmike@gmail.com','http://levittmike.com','38.99.140.226','2011-11-21 09:04:44','2011-11-21 17:04:44','I love the past can be slavery comment.  So true, when at quiet moments, our minds can play back past issues.  \r\n\r\nI cannot change the past, but I can learn from it here and now.  \r\n\r\nLife is going on right now, and the little moments will build us up for great moments.\r\n\r\nThanks for sharing and blessings on your day!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.120 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(565,2436,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','76.215.211.128','2011-11-22 21:31:23','2011-11-23 05:31:23','Suzannah, I use \"his\" as a historical reference simply because Scripture indicates it as such.  Yet, it seems like you want to pick a fight for my raising the question among men.  I do not wish to return that favor because I recognize I do not sit in your shoes.  I do not know the oppression you have felt.  That is part of the problem.  Yet to condemn me for raising the question seems a little unfair.\r\n\r\nAnd to my own credit I wrote a book that included a very deep reference the the original image of God as inclusive to men AND women.   I never stated men and women weren\'t equal.  Our equality resides in our dignity, not our gender.  My point was and is that our reflection of the image of God always must include both.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',564,1),(504,2324,'On Paying Attention &laquo; logic and imagination','','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com/2011/11/20/i-will-make-a-life-of-it/','66.135.48.180','2011-11-21 09:14:58','2011-11-21 17:14:58','[...] am paying attention and I choose to be grateful nevertheless, which I wrote about over at Provoketive this week. My cup is always half empty.  At least, without Jesus it would be.  Even with the [...]',0,'1','The Incutio XML-RPC PHP Library','pingback',0,0),(553,2361,'Morgan Guyton','maguyton@gmail.com','http://morganguyton.wordpress.com','173.73.75.39','2011-11-21 16:10:13','2011-11-22 00:10:13','\"One could become suspicious that our fanaticism with hell, either for or against, is mostly a misplaced projection of our unresolved ambivalence about the quandary that we should \'love our enemies\' in a world of enmity and often unspeakable evil without condoning it or encouraging a culture of impunity.\" Very astute observation. Too often, we congratulate ourselves on being \"progressive\" enough to banish hell when we don\'t have any grace with people in actual real-life situations. I think that I\'ll be ready to spend eternity with God when I get to the point where I wouldn\'t be scandalized to see my enemies there. Not sure I\'ll ever be ready. Oh well.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/7.0.1','',0,57),(570,2491,'Morgan Guyton','maguyton@gmail.com','http://morganguyton.wordpress.com','70.63.156.165','2011-11-23 17:09:14','2011-11-24 01:09:14','Thanks for sharing this powerful witness. I was wounded by the church too. God told me that the worship service I lead is supposed to be a place for healing wounds.  Nothing like Tahrir Square. Just depression, addiction, grief. Suburban wounds. If you live in the DC area, come visit sometime. Saturdays 5:30 pm out in Burke, VA at Burke UMC.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(509,2361,'suzannah {so much shouting, so much laughter}','shoutlaughlove@gmail.com','http://www.somuchshoutingsomuchlaughter.com','72.77.123.148','2011-11-21 09:33:37','2011-11-21 17:33:37','this is fascinating and raises worthy questions. the Church definitely shies away from conflict and talks very little about reconciliation.  we divide and divide and are largely unaccustomed to community alongside people who don\'t see the world just like us.\r\n\r\nmy sister studied conflict resolution at nyu, became an organizer, and used to dream of embarking on the very same program i believe you are in. i studied poverty and community in dc and worked just down the way from the servant leadership school.  strange, small world.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.24) Gecko/20111103 Firefox/3.6.24','',0,0),(593,2491,'Little Gumnut','sophblanc@hotmail.com','http://www.littlegumnut.blogspot.com','58.172.105.111','2011-11-27 15:16:33','2011-11-27 23:16:33','Excellent article Marilyn, I thought Morgan Guyton\'s comment about God\'s purpose for worship very profound as well. I\'ve struggled with deep hurts in the church as well and have seen people for whom its all been too much and who have left.  Thinking of you and the piece of your heart in Egypt, hoping that there is good news and peace surrounding you.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(594,2436,'suzannah {so much shouting, so much laughter}','shoutlaughlove@gmail.com','http://www.somuchshoutingsomuchlaughter.com','72.77.123.148','2011-11-27 17:40:02','2011-11-28 01:40:02','amy, yes! i believe that conversations about gender are important, too.  it\'s the prescriptive, culture-based arguments about how wo/men *should* be that are problematic, needlessly limiting, and ultimately deceptive.\r\n\r\ni\'m raising a boy and a girl and believe that men and women are different in ways i might not have believed before i had kids--but i am not willing either to make the leap from \"boys tend to be rough, physical\" etc to \"men are/*should be* like this and women who act that way are trying to be men.\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.24) Gecko/20111103 Firefox/3.6.24','',592,0),(603,2508,'Kisa','kisakonrad@yahoo.com','http://www.monkeygal2.blogspot.com','75.35.72.194','2011-11-27 23:10:08','2011-11-28 07:10:08','This is very well-written and insightful, Renee.  I think it strikes me apart from its commentary on Christianity.  ALL marriages should operate with this kind of mutual respect, sharing &amp; listening and benefitting from each others\' strengths.  Thank you for the reminder :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(595,2269,'Patrick','patrick.sele@highspeed.li','','88.82.108.197','2011-11-27 18:45:42','2011-11-28 02:45:42','Another concept that may have to be taken into account with respect to the Problem of Evil is God’s perfect justice. In the following I’m presenting a theodicy, called “Theodicy from divine justice”, based on this concept:\r\n\r\n-	God’s perfect justice prevents Him from relieving people with unforgiven sins from their sufferings (see Isaiah 59,1-2).\r\n-	Unlike God Christians are not perfectly just. Therefore, unlike God, they are in a position to help people with unforgiven sins. By doing this they may make those among them who haven’t yet accepted God’s salvation receptive of it (Matthew 5,16, 1 Peter 2,11-12, and 3,1-2), which in turn frees these persons from suffering in the afterlife. \r\n-	The greater God’s beneficial power due to His love, the greater God’s destructive power due to His justice (see Matthew 13,27-29). Striving to prevent as much suffering as possible God can only interfere to such a degree that the beneficial effect of the interference is not neutralized by the destructive effect of it.\r\n-	Someone who dies before he or she reaches the age of accountability, i.e. before he or she can distinguish between good and evil (see Genesis 2,16-17, Deuteronomy 1,39, and Isaiah 7,16) faces no punishment in the afterlife, as he or she would not have been able to commit sins. So, God may not be inclined to prevent such a person’s death.\r\n-	A person’s suffering in this life may have a redeeming effect (Luke 16,25) and consequently contribute to a decrease of the respective person’s suffering in the afterlife; the amount of suffering in this life is so to speak subtracted from the amount of suffering in the afterlife. So, God may not be inclined to relieve this person’s suffering.\r\n-	A person’s suffering in this life may make the person receptive of God’s salvation (Luke 15,11-21), which in turn frees this person from suffering in the afterlife.\r\n-	There are degrees of punishment in the afterlife depending on one’s moral behaviour (Matthew 16,27, 2 Corinthians 5,10), one’s knowledge of God’s will (Matthew 11,20-24, Luke 12,47-48), and, as mentioned before, one’s amount of suffering in this life (Luke 16,25).\r\n-	Those people who suffer more in this life than they deserve due to their way of life are compensated for it by receiving rewards in Heaven.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_8; de-de) AppleWebKit/533.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Safari/533.18.5','',0,0),(608,2491,'Marilyn Gardner','marilyngardner5@gmail.com','http://communicatingacrossboundariesblog.com','170.63.96.108','2011-11-28 08:07:32','2011-11-28 16:07:32','Thank you Sophie! And the piece of my heart in Egypt is doing well! I too have known people who have left  the church. I often wonder why I didn\'t- although I definitely sat there, but not really there, for years. But somehow I knew that I had to forgive the church for losing the road map of grace and comfort. And I also realized that I chose, because of  woundedness, to not engage - so I had to repent of that. If you don\'t engage, people just see the surface and don\'t know what is under, hurting and wounded. It\'s still a process for me and some days are better than others, but I have learned more about giving grace in the process. Something I have desperately needed. I\'m great at accusing people of not having grace, giving grace to those same people? That\'s a bit more difficult!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',593,96),(598,2508,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://quietanthem.blogspot.com/','75.71.99.63','2011-11-27 19:10:37','2011-11-28 03:10:37','Mrs. Bosman, \r\n\r\nYou and Anna have inspired my next article. Thank you. I do believe God is doing a universal work by calling His people back to Himself and into their true identities. A true move of the Holy Spirit typically does spread, yes? I encourage you to keep seeking Him on who He wants you to be completely in Him. Be well and much love.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',589,102),(607,2508,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2011-11-28 06:52:54','2011-11-28 14:52:54','Beautifully spoken!  We need to tell the stories in scripture of strong women, which really stood out to me here.  They are stories I do not hear in church.   Thank you for writing this piece.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,64),(599,2508,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://quietanthem.blogspot.com/','75.71.99.63','2011-11-27 19:11:56','2011-11-28 03:11:56','Andrea, I\'m thankful you found this freeing. That was my purpose for women in writing it. Please share this with anyone you feel would benefit!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',590,102),(601,2508,'Kerry','kerryvent@aol.com','','72.222.210.56','2011-11-27 20:37:28','2011-11-28 04:37:28','Great piece, Renee!  I feel like I see a lot of people fighting gender roles.  Don\'t quite understand why.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,0),(600,2436,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://quietanthem.blogspot.com/','75.71.99.63','2011-11-27 20:00:46','2011-11-28 04:00:46','Jonathan, \r\n\r\nI hadn\'t seen this article when I posted \"Gender Roles as God Intended,\" but I think my piece is a fitting response to the question you pose at the end of this thoughtful missive. I\'m grateful as a woman to see men speaking on our behalf on this very precious and pertinent issue. \r\n\r\nWarmly, \r\nRenee',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,102),(602,2508,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://quietanthem.blogspot.com/','75.71.99.63','2011-11-27 20:46:14','2011-11-28 04:46:14','Thanks, Kerry! I think people fight gender roles because for thousands of years those in power dictated gender/racial/younameit divisions to remain in power. This is especially true in the church. Why give people the tools to overcome when doing so would risk said power-heads to resign power? It\'s evil at its most deceptive. If you read the book of Esther in the Old Testament, the King dismissed his first wife Vashti (before Esther) because his cabinet reasoned that if other women discovered that Vashti didn\'t get into trouble after not listening to her husband, then ALL women in the land would reason the same, and a giant (!) rebellion (!) would ensue. The trend stuck, and here we are, thousands of years later, with not much change.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',601,102),(604,2508,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://quietanthem.blogspot.com/','75.71.99.63','2011-11-27 23:14:18','2011-11-28 07:14:18','Kisa, you are correct: all marriages should operate this way. You\'re welcome and thank you.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',603,102),(605,2436,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.31.89.167','2011-11-28 06:13:55','2011-11-28 14:13:55','Suzannah, and I wouldn\'t make that argument either.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',594,1),(606,2436,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.31.89.167','2011-11-28 06:15:01','2011-11-28 14:15:01','Then what do you see as the point of gender Amy?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',592,1),(609,2491,'Marilyn Gardner','marilyngardner5@gmail.com','http://communicatingacrossboundariesblog.com','170.63.96.108','2011-11-28 08:08:12','2011-11-28 16:08:12','And you have been the church to me many times Marty!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',580,96),(610,2508,'Karma Arslanian','karma.arslanian@gmail.com','','67.190.53.123','2011-11-28 09:45:35','2011-11-28 17:45:35','While I am more than happy to help out with childcare, food and decorating these are not my primary gifts. On some level I always knew that I had more to offer but I doubted the \"rightness\" of my giftings after too long in a church that told me I was way out of the bounds of what a woman should be. I am free from this now but it is heartbraking to see it happening to women all around me. Thanks for speaking out.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1; Trident/4.0; GTB7.1)','',0,0),(611,2508,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://quietanthem.blogspot.com/','138.86.118.92','2011-11-28 10:15:25','2011-11-28 18:15:25','Melody: I\'m thankful the stories here resonated, as they ought to. They\'re powerful testimonies of what God considers to be true womanhood (why else would they have made it into the holiest of books?). My question to you would be why you think churches don\'t highlight these stories more. It\'s a worthy conversation.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; InfoPath.2)','',607,102),(612,2508,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://quietanthem.blogspot.com/','138.86.118.92','2011-11-28 10:17:34','2011-11-28 18:17:34','Karma, I truly believe suppressing women\'s voices is a form of demonic stifling that prevents families and churches from flourishing. You write: \"I am free from this now.\" I am so glad for this. You have overcome, and I encourage you to speak up as your convictions dictate. Much love to you.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; InfoPath.2)','',610,102),(613,2508,'Shari Lopatin','s_lopatin@yahoo.com','http://www.sharilopatin.com','65.125.231.131','2011-11-28 11:03:56','2011-11-28 19:03:56','\"It will be like entering into a world where people are as they were meant to be.\" --GREAT finishing touch, and I think this is your strongest point, by far. This is the epitome of equality, whether we\'re speaking racially, ethnically, or gender. Great essay, Renee, and congrats on your publication!',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1; Trident/4.0; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; InfoPath.2; MS-RTC LM 8; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E)','',0,0),(614,2436,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-11-28 11:54:12','2011-11-28 19:54:12','Yup, that\'s exactly what I mean.\r\n\r\nI have a son who takes ballet lessons.  He does it because he wants to, not because I\'m trying to \"prove\" anything by forcing him.  He\'s good at it.  But I certainly wish I had a dime for every time someone said something which amounted to, \"You\'re going to turn him into a sissy/girl/queer.\"  It doesn\'t just bother me because he isn\'t any of those things (at least, not that I know of--he\'s only 8).  It bothers me because so what if he is?  So what if he grows up to be a man with more \"feminine\" sensibilities?  And what difference would it (or should it) make to anyone else if he\'s gay or transgender?  And why does ballet or being gentle, sweet, or nurturing automatically make him queer?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',594,43),(616,2508,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://quietanthem.blogspot.com/','75.71.99.63','2011-11-28 12:57:53','2011-11-28 20:57:53','\"The epitome of equality.\" Shari, I love this. Thank you for your encouragement.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',613,102),(615,2436,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-11-28 11:57:38','2011-11-28 19:57:38','\"Then what do you see as the point of gender Amy?\"\r\n\r\nThat, right there, is the question we should be asking, rather than what it means to be male or female.\r\n\r\nAnd really, I don\'t have a good answer.  The best I can do for the moment is to suggest that maybe the purpose has been different in different times and places.  As far as I can tell, American masculinity and femininity are pretty different from the same in, say, ancient Japan.  Perhaps a good survey of what gender and gender roles have meant through history and geography might give us some clues.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',606,43),(617,2508,'Tamara Lunardo','tamaraoutloud@gmail.com','http://www.tamaraoutloud.com/','98.180.27.224','2011-11-28 15:59:38','2011-11-28 23:59:38','Renee, I so appreciate the varied biblical examples of women\'s intercession. I think that too often we fixate on one small passage in the Bible to reinforce our own preferences; a broader and more thoughtful perspective like this is so important in hearing what God really has to say about his marvelous plans for us. Thank you.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(618,2508,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://quietanthem.blogspot.com/','75.71.99.63','2011-11-28 17:16:45','2011-11-29 01:16:45','Tamara, I too believe that providing a broad range of examples allows for people to recognize the importance of the issue. When we base a theology on one verse/idea, that\'s when distortions arise (see: Paul\'s warning women in ONE verse not to speak up in church.). I appreciate your vote of confidence and your insightful use of the word \"intercession.\" How fitting.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',617,102),(619,2624,'A.j','Jesusruserious@hotmail.com','','198.228.234.240','2011-11-29 09:56:10','2011-11-29 17:56:10','Bronwen,\r\n   Thank you for sharing your experience and reflection. I also have sensed and been kinda grossed out by the seeming arrogance of the \'Our God\' thing. I\'m curious what conclusions or new questions arise for you when you contemplate the seemingly exclusive declarations of both Jesus and His disciples found in the N.T.? I\'m thinking  \'Only way to the Father\', \'Name above every name\',\'Only name by which one can be saved\' etc.\r\n I look forward to your response! \r\n\r\nSincerely, \r\n   A.j',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8B117','',0,0),(620,2624,'Jonathan Crouch','jmcrouch@gmail.com','','99.35.130.38','2011-11-29 10:09:42','2011-11-29 18:09:42','Thank you Bronwen for this insight. I tell people that the only reason Buddha was not a Christian was because he was born before Christ. To be a good Buddhist one must be a good Christian. To be a good Christian one must be a good Buddhist. \r\n\r\nIt seems that Jesus taught unconditional Love and The Buddha taught enlightenment. The emphasis is different depending on ones intention.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,24),(621,2598,'Stephanie S. Smith','steph.duncan.ssd@gmail.com','http://www.stephindialogue.com','67.251.97.21','2011-11-29 10:51:25','2011-11-29 18:51:25','I\'m so glad to see this dialogue taking place more and more about feeding both the body and the spirit. There are so many metaphors about food in Scripture yet we largely ignore any relationship between our food and our faith. You mentioned \"sensual delights\"--definitely not something we talk about in church! Yet Eden means \"delight, pleasure.\" This is the God we serve. And when we pay attention to our senses we experience Him more fully.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(622,2624,'AnnaWoofenden','anna@woofenden.net','http://annawoofenden.wordpress.com/','50.129.75.196','2011-11-29 11:19:02','2011-11-29 19:19:02','Thank you for this powerful message! I am noticing that the more I learn about other paths and religions, the more sensitive I am to any language that seems to \"one-up\" \"our\" God to someone else\'s. The amazing thing to me is noticing that my awareness of God just keeps getting bigger and bigger as I see more and more ways that God manifest in people\'s lives and various religions.  \nThanks for sharing these insights and stirring my mind and heart.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_7) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,90),(623,2624,'Bronwen.Henry','bronwen.henry@newchurch.org','','74.95.174.162','2011-11-29 12:04:35','2011-11-29 20:04:35','A.J. Thanks for your comment. To me when I read, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.\" (John 14:6)...I reflect on Jesus as the Way as the path we are to follow. I think the only way any of us (of any faith) will know divine peace within us is by following the way that Jesus (and others) taught. The way of compassion. The way of surrender. The way of courage.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.2.24) Gecko/20111103 Firefox/3.6.24','',619,0),(624,2624,'Bronwen.Henry','bronwen.henry@newchurch.org','','74.95.174.162','2011-11-29 12:06:22','2011-11-29 20:06:22','Thanks Jonathan. I have had a similar thought!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.2.24) Gecko/20111103 Firefox/3.6.24','',620,0),(625,2624,'Bronwen.Henry','bronwen.henry@newchurch.org','','74.95.172.169','2011-11-29 12:08:44','2011-11-29 20:08:44','Thank you Anna. Your comment reminds me of something I heard Brian Mclaren say which is that if anyone excludes you draw a bigger circle that has the love and compassion to include them (even as they exclude you). I\'m sure God\'s love and presence in this world is far bigger than I could ever conceive.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.2.24) Gecko/20111103 Firefox/3.6.24','',622,0),(626,2443,'tom lynch','lynch.gerard@yahoo.com','','24.40.92.247','2011-11-29 12:29:24','2011-11-29 20:29:24','Not knowing what comes next, waiting on the Lord, seems the destination and best place to be in faith. \nI have come to take my intentions as clay, something that needs the Holy Spirit to shape. To live an inspired lfe, rather than a motivated one, is to walk by a lamb unto my feet: just enough light to illuminate the moment I am in. \nI am sure I am missing most or part of the point of \"intentional living\" but it just appears far too controlling. What self-control I do employ is for submission, not power.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(627,2587,'Lee Fischer','outofaustin@googlemail.com','http://outlandish-lee.blogspot.com/','188.98.194.152','2011-11-29 14:02:58','2011-11-29 22:02:58','good article.  thanks.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,10),(628,2624,'A.j','jesusruserious@hotmail.com','','96.254.62.89','2011-11-29 14:33:46','2011-11-29 22:33:46','Bronwen, \r\n Thank you for offering your interpretation of John14:6. I\'m curious if you\'ve contemplated some of the other verses I referenced? Some would say the Uniqueness and Divinity of Jesus is paramount, this being a common thread through the N.T. as God reconciling the world to Himself(salvation) through Jesus. \r\n\r\nIf this has been some of the roads you\'ve been down in your journey I wonder if you\'d be so kind to share your working response to such claims?\r\n\r\n-a.j',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_7; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.21.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.5 Safari/533.21.1','',623,0),(629,2443,'MistyDC29','MistyDC29@gmail.com','http://thechaffins.blogspot.com','98.236.77.25','2011-11-29 14:41:18','2011-11-29 22:41:18','I fully agree that our intentions need to be as clay.  We certainly have to be flexible and not try to \"strong arm\" our own will into God\'s plan.  But I think that we need to have those intentions, otherwise, we may find ourselves wandering and just marking time.  We need to make a conscious decision every day to seek God and His will as opposed to just following our own path.  We are constantly seeking just a little more light to illuminate the next destination.  Every time we pray about a decision, we are asking for a little more light.  I think that all of this is part of living intentionally.  Even submission takes intention.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',626,25),(630,2624,'Scott','scottinthenw@gmail.com','','63.174.56.88','2011-11-29 17:40:46','2011-11-30 01:40:46','I hear you on this one Miss Henry!\r\n\r\nMy wife and I left the church for various reasons.  However, for me, one of my \"Ah ha.\" moments came at a time during the Da Vinci Code success.  The leader of our congregation sermonized for over and hour and a half at the dangers of the Da Vinci Code.  That\'s when it dawned on me.  I was forced to ask myself, \"why is nearly every sermon an apologetical teaching in defense of Jesus the Messiah and my God is bigger than your god?\" \r\n\r\nEither Jesus is the Messiah or not. Either God is God or not.  But to constantly drum that message into the heads of Christians smacks of brain washing.  And it seemed to me that perhaps Christians are not as confident in their beliefs as they think. \r\n\r\nLet\'s be honest.  It has been over 2000 years since Jesus\' death.  Perhaps he\'s not Messiah?  Then what?  Is God still bigger than others? Yes.  Is he not also just as merciful?  Of course. To me the greater teaching should be about kindness, mercy, peace, hospitality, etc.  Or better yet.  I like how it is quoted in the movie Bill And Ted\'s Excellent Adventure: \"Be excellent to each other and...... PARTY ON DUDES!\"\r\n\r\nExcellent observation.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; PPC Mac OS X 10_5_8) AppleWebKit/534.50.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.6 Safari/533.22.3','',0,0),(631,1258,'Lee Fischer','outofaustin@googlemail.com','http://outlandish-lee.blogspot.com/','94.216.88.220','2011-11-30 01:21:17','2011-11-30 09:21:17','Melody, \r\n\r\nDon\'t, please don\'t, let anyone take your \'feminist radar\' away!\r\nI am so thankful that this conversation is possible here at Provoketive... I wish I could say the same for the Emergents here in Germany, but we still have a long way to go (just went through their website the other day, and there is one podcast from one woman...every book, podcast, article, link are to, about, from and for men!).  I \'Amen\' you on so many things in this post, sister, and rather than get on a soap box here, I think I should let it inspire a post of my own.  I\'m hoping to come at this theme from the more general question of \'authority\' in my dissertation... a subject I\'ve been wanting to tackle for a number of years now.  I\'ll have to read Jim Henderson\'s book. \r\nthank you.  lee',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,10),(632,2624,'Marilyn Gardner','marilyngardner5@gmail.com','http://communicatingacrossboundariesblog.com','146.243.4.157','2011-11-30 06:57:52','2011-11-30 14:57:52','Thanks for the post. This is a good discussion and you bring up some excellent points.  I totally agree in terms of the mystery of who God is, how big God is, and how much I don\'t understand. Derrick C. Brown - one of my favorite poets has done an amazing video called A Finger, Two Dots, Then me and I feel like it is a profound look at how big God is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwQJHx615eE&amp;feature=share It\'s about 8 minutes long but so worthwhile! Way better than church :)\r\nHere is where I struggle - if two views about God and the way to God contradict each other, which one is correct? It defies logic that all can be correct. I grew up in the Muslim world, lived there as an adult and still travel there often - if all ways lead to God then surely the terrorists from 9/11 are in Heaven. They were zealous for God and carried out their actions in the name of God. If we go by the dogma that all ways lead to God - then surely this group cannot be excluded. I would also add that if Jesus called himself God, and he\'s not - then he is not a good guy.  He is someone who purposely deluded people and laughed in the process. He is not the way of compassion, but rather the way to a deadly delusion.  Could it be that there is one way to God, but many ways to Jesus? Sorry this is so long but I do a lot of thinking about this subject and your post is great food for my thinking!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,96),(633,2624,'Ian Wrisley','ianwrisley@gmail.com','','97.122.208.124','2011-11-30 07:08:14','2011-11-30 15:08:14','Hi.  I appreciate your interest in the diversity of religious expression and the usefulness of terms and persons from one to understand another.  I\'m wondering if, contrary to your position, all religions might not be wrong.  I wonder if John Lennon was more like Jesus than we give him credit for.  Religion seems to be opposed to God, and only occasionally becomes a door into God\'s world.\r\nI also wonder if it\'s not a western syncronizing tendency to lump religions into one ball, using categories from one to fit elements of others into.  Nirvana is not heaven is not eternal life.  Buddha is not a redeemer in part because Buddhists do not perceive a need for salvation like Christians do.  The relative truth of each approach is debatable, but it\'s hard to make them work together.\r\nAll that said, I do appreciate your caution against tribalism and dominionism.  Thanks.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(634,2508,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-11-30 07:36:32','2011-11-30 15:36:32','This is well-written and thoughtful.  Some great insights!\r\n\r\nI\'m not sure about this, though:\r\n\r\n\"God created marriage as an earthly reflection of a spiritual dynamic.\"\r\n\r\nActually, God created marriage because it wasn\'t \"good for the man to be alone.\"  We may see spiritual truths reflected in the marriage relationship, but I think saying that\'s the purpose is stretching literalism a little too far.\r\n\r\n\"...Paul’s culture, in which women notoriously overused the gift of speech...\"\r\n\r\nI don\'t know why people assume this to be true.  It seems from Scripture that *both* men and women were notorious for misusing their mouths, in much the same ways.  Men aren\'t paragons of gossip-free virtue, and they weren\'t back then, either.  Unless there are historical texts (of the non-misogynist variety) to back up that claim, it\'s faulty.\r\n\r\nOn the other hand, I loved your use of Pilate\'s wife.  She\'s definitely someone I wish we knew more about.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,43),(635,2443,'tom lynch','lynch.gerard@yahoo.com','','24.40.92.242','2011-11-30 09:17:18','2011-11-30 17:17:18','Thank you for replying. Of course I agree that we need to make a conscious decision every day to seek God and His will, yei I would add this is a continual practice throughout each day, a way of becoming a \"living sacrifice.\" For me, this is the unceasing prayer. \r\nRe-reading my post I can see where I appear to suggest a sort of bumping along, as if merely hoping to bump into Holy Spirit. \r\nFor me, it is this continual surrender to Spirit and grace that gives what is needed ineach moment without, what seems to me, the egoic control of \"intentional living.\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',629,0),(636,2624,'Bronwen','bronwen.henry@newchurch.org','','66.16.105.41','2011-11-30 09:51:44','2011-11-30 17:51:44','Scott, thank you for sharing some of your journey.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(637,2624,'Bronwen','bronwen.henry@newchurch.org','','66.16.105.41','2011-11-30 10:10:12','2011-11-30 18:10:12','Marilyn,\r\nThank you for taking time to leave this comment (and that link! wow!). The perspective I hold is that many ways/paths CAN lead to God. It doesn\'t mean they do! It is the practicing, the living, the embodying of everything good in a faith path that leads one to salvation (imho). Oh, I very much puzzle over the same questions you pose. To me what is more important than \'who\' is right, the exact nature of Jesus\' divinity, etc. is how we hold it. I think when we hold our faith (whatever it is) in a way that we think we are better than others, it is a dangerous path, one that separates rather than unites. I\'d love to hear more of your thoughts.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',632,0),(638,2624,'Bronwen','bronwen.henry@newchurch.org','','66.16.105.41','2011-11-30 10:15:12','2011-11-30 18:15:12','Ian,\r\nThank you for this point! Samir Selmanovich\'s work (It\'s all about God) first introduced me to this notion that \'we are all wrong\' and I love it! I think it is an important reminder, one that can unite people of all religions (atheists included). Have you read any Peter Rollins? He also has a lot of cool ideas about the very nature of God is to be concealed (not \'revealed\')...and it is through His mystery that we learn so much (very poor paraphrase here! Peter\'s words are much more brilliant!). \r\n\r\nI hear your caution on not equating religions. And on my journey I have found great richness in trying to elevate my mind above the specific word choice of a faith path, and TRY to get in touch with the heart/the intent/ the message. It is somewhat easy (for many) to divide religions, but for me, I find such deep peace in recognizing (and even accepting) the unity present.\r\n\r\nI very much benefited from a concept I learned at a Buddhist temple, that ALL our words will fall short of the divine and that we must not get caught up (attached) to the words themselves.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',633,0),(639,2624,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.31.89.167','2011-11-30 10:46:03','2011-11-30 18:46:03','One of the deep connectors between Buddhism and Christianity (or the work of Jesus) is the alleviation of suffering.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',633,1),(640,2624,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.31.89.167','2011-11-30 10:46:25','2011-11-30 18:46:25','Oh how we love our words, don\'t we?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',638,1),(641,2622,'Jim Herrington','jthhou@gmail.com','','70.140.184.24','2011-11-30 11:12:00','2011-11-30 19:12:00','Hi Bill. Your cousin Carolyn put me onto this article.  Well done. In my experience human beings tend to want to resolve tension rather than to one end of a polarity or another. Learning to manage polarity in a way that holds tension gives life. Thanks for holding that up for us.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/534.51.22 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.1 Safari/534.51.22','',0,0),(642,2622,'Bill Walker','williamawalkeriii@gmail.com','http://billwalker.wordpress.com','24.160.34.219','2011-11-30 11:34:35','2011-11-30 19:34:35','Thank you, Jim.  I think you\'ve just summed it up well.  And thanks for <a href=\"http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_tc_2_0?rh=i%3Astripbooks%2Ck%3AJim+Herrington&amp;keywords=Jim+Herrington&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1322681187&amp;sr=1-2-ent&amp;field-contributor_id=B001KHHVHW\" rel=\"nofollow\">some of your work</a> that has guided many others in a similar but much bigger way!  It is voices like yours that remind me of the importance and transformative potential of service through the church - and that keep me vocationally committed to this.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110614 Firefox/3.6.18','',641,20),(650,2622,'tom lynch','lynch.gerard@yahoo.com','','69.171.160.98','2011-12-02 06:59:11','2011-12-02 14:59:11','I truly enjoyed this piece. The two aspects I see as the synergistic action of the soul, a tension like in that of opposing muscles making any movement or action possible. \r\nWhere I live the vast majority of Christian appear to find the \"contemplative\" too mystical, the stuff of those \"Babylonian\" Catholics.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(651,2691,'Christopher Kirk','oikoskrk@yahoo.com','http://notesfromthebridge.wordpress.com','66.227.227.151','2011-12-02 13:00:43','2011-12-02 21:00:43','I applaud Jim Palmer for having the courage to move forward with his message of love and acceptance.  I have been living outside of the Traditional churches box for over 30 years now.  In those years I have helped to pioneer relational and Spirit led churches that are based on love, relationship and community rather than doctrine\r\nand dogma.  Jim Palmer is free and I pray that he remains that way in spite of any traditional judgement or condemnation.\r\n\r\nChristopher Kirk\r\nhttp://notesfromthebridge.wordpress.com',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.10 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/8.0.552.224 Safari/534.10','',0,0),(649,2679,'tom lynch','lynch.gerard@yahoo.com','','69.171.160.98','2011-12-02 06:50:42','2011-12-02 14:50:42','I absolutely love this guy, and I have yet to read his books. Which has now become a crucial Must. Thanks so much for the introduction, Jon.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(644,2508,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://quietanthem.blogspot.com/','75.71.99.63','2011-11-30 17:58:52','2011-12-01 01:58:52','Amy: I believe part of \"good for the man not to be alone\" includes an aspect of relationship that originates out of God\'s best intentions for us. Relationships, romantic or not, can serve as reflections of God\'s character. Ephesians 5:22-32 offers Paul\'s parallel between Christ and the church and marriage. \r\n\r\nThere is a rich understanding in most Jewish history (and plenty of modern day examples) that highlights an outspokenness by women.  Also, for the Corinthian church, it is historical that Corinthian women did have a dominant role in society, and many were advocates of pagan worship. In any case, I applied it here as an accepted understanding of culture, but I will search out scholarly articles. Your point is well-taken. \r\n\r\nI, too, would love to know more about Pilate\'s wife. She seemed insightful and bold--just the type of woman I\'d have as a friend. \r\n\r\nThanks for your response.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',634,102),(645,2264,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.11.88','2011-11-30 18:56:34','2011-12-01 02:56:34','Excellent post. Pastors often feel very underappreciated and undervalued. The expectations they attempt to meet are very high and they often do not feel much gratitude expressed from their congregations. When I pastored, I was thrilled to even get a random card from a member that expressed their thanks for me and the work I was doing. Good work here, thanks for posting.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,12),(646,2443,'tom lynch','lynch.gerard@yahoo.com','','24.40.92.247','2011-12-01 09:27:23','2011-12-01 17:27:23','For clarification, I should have asked what is the point of \"intentional living\"? I understand that \"submission takes intention,\" yet that is far different to me than intentionally ordering one\'s existence and actions. To me, our only intention is to be submission and rely on radical grace for what comes next.\r\n\"To will and to do\" is provided by grace...only if we allow it and not overpower it with our plans and standards.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(647,2679,'Pam Hogeweide','pamhogeweide@gmail.com','http://www.godmessedmeup.blogspot.com','71.236.152.241','2011-12-01 13:38:34','2011-12-01 21:38:34','Love this. I remember when Divine Nobodies came out. I devoured it. Jim is much too modest about his ability to write not only with resonance  but with style. He has a wonderful writing voice that is engaging and disarming. \r\n\r\nI look forward to the next two parts of this interview. WTG Jonathan!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(648,2855,'Yale Cohn','talkingwithyalecohn@gmail.com','http://www.talkingwithyale.com','173.28.209.8','2011-12-01 15:39:34','2011-12-01 23:39:34','Here’s our interview with Zach where he talks about what it was like growing up with two mothers, what led him to decide to go and speak before the House of Representatives, how his life has changed after this speech thrust him into the public eye, and what other young people can do to fight for equality and speak out against intolerance.\r\n\r\nhttp://patv.tv/blog/2011/04/06/talking-with-yale-cohn-with-zach-wahls/',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(652,2691,'J C Veramu','joeveramu@yahoo.com','','119.235.98.237','2011-12-02 14:28:37','2011-12-02 22:28:37','This is a very insightful and affirming interview on Jim Palmer.\r\nJim might consider uploading on Kindle and Smashwords for the global e reading public. (I notice that the book is currently available only in printed format.)\r\nAll the best to this blog and to Jim Palmer\r\nJ C Veramu',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(653,2622,'Bill Walker','williamawalkeriii@gmail.com','http://billwalker.wordpress.com','24.160.34.219','2011-12-02 14:59:06','2011-12-02 22:59:06','I find this to be true as well, Tom.  There are also people who have never really been exposed to or pastored through it.   And then there are those like myself who believe they need the contemplative but struggle to practice it consistently.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110614 Firefox/3.6.18','',650,20),(654,2679,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.31.89.167','2011-12-02 15:27:45','2011-12-02 23:27:45','Thanks Pam.  Jim\'s story is so interesting and I\'m glad to be part of helping tell it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',647,1),(655,2679,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.31.89.167','2011-12-02 15:28:26','2011-12-02 23:28:26','Tom, Jim is the real deal.  I\'m glad you are interested in reading him.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',649,1),(656,2691,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.31.89.167','2011-12-02 15:29:20','2011-12-02 23:29:20','What a powerful world it is to live outside the space of judgment.  I do believe Jim\'s message will touch a LOT of people looking for that same space.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',651,1),(657,2691,'Pam Hogeweide','pamhogeweide@gmail.com','http://www.godmessedmeup.blogspot.com','71.236.152.241','2011-12-02 17:43:02','2011-12-03 01:43:02','<b>For Jesus of Nazareth, life was his religion, love was his doctrine, and humankind was his church.</b>\r\n\r\nBest line I\'ve read in a long time in regards to Jesus and his life. \r\n\r\nCan\'t wait for Part 3.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(658,1411,'Jeff randell','Jefftrandell@gmail.com','','67.3.155.50','2011-12-03 09:48:45','2011-12-03 17:48:45','Interesting thoughts. Surely there are gender bias abuses. However, as the church tries to restore its long gone identity grounded in scripture, we must be careful to adhere to the truth contained in it. This does have implications for the equality (not value) of men and women. Scripture is clear that some roles are instituted by God for men. This response should be read with a loving tone and not assumed to have any anti woman tone, like a coffee conversation.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5','',0,0),(659,2624,'Marni Arnold','marni@relevantbrokenness.com','http://relevantbrokenness.com','98.24.78.34','2011-12-03 17:45:48','2011-12-04 01:45:48','I am going to actually have a slightly different voice in this conversation, for I actually come from a background in which I was not always a Christian. First and foremost, I was born and raised Jewish. Secondly, however, I opted to leave Judiasm at the age of 20 to explore the avenues of Paganism that lead me down a six year path in the realm of witchcraft. Toward the end of my time practicing such a life, I found myself in the practices of Buddhism. The reasons I did this was to basically start segregating myself from Paganism because I had a very negative experience with it right before I embraced such ways into my life...and for a year prior to my accepting Christ, I was deeply involved in the Buddhist studies and practices.\r\n\r\nFrom such an experience, I learned one thing in reference to what you are asserting here...God is a jealous God. While other world religions preach the life of synchronicity...to have all of us live harmoniously as one...Jesus didn\'t come for such goal. \r\n\r\n\"Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.\" (Matthew 10:34 NKJV)\r\n\r\nThose are pretty intense words straight from Jesus\' mouth Himself. God Himself.\r\n\r\nThe crying out in praise that God is above all other gods...is scrituprual. Going all the way back to Exodus in which we are informed...\"thou shalt have no other gods before Me.\" Again, God is a jealous God...and will not be shared with another. No matter how nice another person in another religion speaks of Jesus. \r\n\r\nHe is not about making nice here...He is about penetration of the sinful hearts of mankind so they will be saved. Period. Love...grace...mercy...kindness...compassion...allieviation of suffering...they all reside in Him. Anything else that touts otherwise, is truly outside of God and not how He instructs His children to live.\r\n\r\nI understand this viewpoint rubs against the very grain of society...but when push comes to shove, God cannot be watered down to satisfy the opinions we hold even as Christians ourselves.\r\n\r\nHe is almighty God...el shaddai. And if we can get out of our own way to truly embrace this truth, casting aside even what we think we understand, and our own opinions, about how we are to articulate and live out life as Christians, it is then we will experience the true freedom He tells us about in scripture...the only true freedom found in Christ.\r\n\r\nSo why not proclaim from the rooftops this truth? Why not sing it, preach it and live it? We are different in Christ because He is not of this world...and we were not created to be a part of this world, but in His everlasting embrace. The created harmoniously unified with our Creator...that is what this is truly all about; not if, and how, we should be unified with other religions in this world.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/9A405','',0,0),(660,2691,'Kelli James','kelli@neologos.org','','70.185.210.157','2011-12-04 07:33:38','2011-12-04 15:33:38','Shortly after I finished reading, Wide Open Spaces, I found Jim on facebook and have been following him along this journey for the last few months. I am so happy to see that Jim is not taking the bitter path. What a great example of being Jesus! \n\nI\'ve worked in the world of Christian publishing and have had my own opportunities to become bitter, so I know it\'s not an \"easy\" thing to do. But \"his strength is made perfect in our weakness.\"\n\nLooking forward to reading Part 3 of the interview tomorrow!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,0),(661,2706,'tom lynch','lynch.gerard@yahoo.com','','69.171.160.253','2011-12-04 21:23:54','2011-12-05 05:23:54','I see Mary rushing along, hurrying all the other children trying to keep up behind her, coming to have a needed talk with her son, Jesus. Her thoughts: \"He can\'t be eating well doing all this traveling around the countryside. And look at the people he has to deal with, tax collectors and prostitutes. Oi vey! And the Romans! The Romans! What about the Romans. What is he thinking? That boy, always so headstrong. He needs to settle down, raise a family, then he\'ll see the heartache of a parent.\"\r\nI see her coming upon the large crowd gathered around her son and shaking her, rushing to the nearest man to her, turning him around and ordering him to fetch her son. \"Tell him his mother is here,\" and staring down anyone who dared look in her direction.\r\nI think Jesus stole a look at his mother, tried to convey with his eyes the sorrow at what he had to say next. And I think she saw and understood this brief exchange, knowing only as a mother would know that her son was now beyond her caring reach. \r\nWhat did she experience on the long walk home? Or did she follow her son, now afraid to let him out of her sight, and still determined to have a word with him?\r\nIf we take, as you pointed out, \"A young woman who looked THE FREAKING ARCHANGEL GABRIEL in the EYE and said “Yessir, I will give birth to the SON OF GOD.” What the what??\" What the what would she do?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(662,2624,'Bronwen','bronwen.henry@newchurch.org','','66.16.105.41','2011-12-05 11:34:44','2011-12-05 19:34:44','Marnni,\r\nThank you for taking time to share some of your perspective. I honor your journey and respect your opinion. I think you will find you are not alone in your opinion, and perhaps some readers will find comfort in your comment.\r\n\r\nTo me, i do not think Jesus\' \'sword\' was opposing the good/true/beautiful things of other religions (Judaism included of course)...but opposing selfish, worldly desires present in all of us (Christians/ his followers included of course). If we summarize Jesus\' teaching as the two greatest commandments (Love the Lord &amp; Love your Neighbor)...then I think that just may include living in unity with our neighbors (of differing religions).',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',659,0),(663,2624,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.31.89.167','2011-12-05 11:54:59','2011-12-05 19:54:59','I would also suggest that Jesus was deeply informed by Judaism, and it creates the basis for our understanding of Christianity.  And what I think Bronwen is suggesting is that we have lots to learn from other faiths as well.  Every major and minor faith has love at its core.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',662,1),(664,2774,'Travis Mamone','travismamone83@gmail.com','http://www.travismamone.net','64.26.72.143','2011-12-05 12:57:38','2011-12-05 20:57:38','I don\'t know about you, but I like the slippery slope I\'m on!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.24) Gecko/20111103 Firefox/3.6.24','',0,46),(665,2793,'Pam Hogeweide','pamhogeweide@gmail.com','http://www.godmessedmeup.blogspot.com','71.236.152.241','2011-12-05 14:31:21','2011-12-05 22:31:21','Good one Joy. I love naked trees. I live in Portland where there are plenty of glorious, stripped bare trees on every block. \r\n\r\nI wrote a rare poem about this a few years ago. It is the only poem I have ever read in public.  I think you\'ll like it as it is in step so much with what you have written here.\r\n\r\nHere\'s the link.....!\r\n\r\nhttp://godmessedmeup.blogspot.com/2011/01/strong-tree-i-stand-poem-from-my-secret.html',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(666,2774,'Anna Woofenden','anna@woofenden.net','','50.129.75.196','2011-12-05 16:22:01','2011-12-06 00:22:01','Travis,\r\nI wouldn\'t trade it! It\'s an exciting journey and God keeps getting bigger--which is a good thing in my book!\r\nPeace,\r\nAnna',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_7) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(667,2774,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.31.89.167','2011-12-05 16:31:14','2011-12-06 00:31:14','God always gets bigger when we start embracing grace. ;-P',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',666,1),(668,2793,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-12-05 17:03:53','2011-12-06 01:03:53','Pam, your poem is glorious.  You know exactly what I mean.  You need to write more poetry, girl!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',665,35),(669,2793,'Jake Kampe','wjkampe@comcast.net','http://www.nakedtheologytalk.blogspot.com','98.196.167.195','2011-12-05 17:23:09','2011-12-06 01:23:09','And although the tree looks dead, from all outward appearances, the life giving nutrients are still moving through the branches, fed by the Vine.  Let us continue to abide until Spring!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,67),(670,2793,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-12-05 17:42:18','2011-12-06 01:42:18','That\'s a whole lot better than giving up, isn\'t it, Jake.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',669,35),(671,2793,'Steve Brannon','brandnewday1@eplus.net','','207.223.31.119','2011-12-05 18:18:23','2011-12-06 02:18:23','What a wonderful message, so full of hope.  I know what the dark season is about.  Also, I know what it is to see the first light of the spring sun come over the horizon after the long, long winter.  Thank you for being you, Joy.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(672,2624,'Marni Arnold','marni@relevantbrokenness.com','http://RelevantBrokenness.com','98.24.78.34','2011-12-05 21:06:06','2011-12-06 05:06:06','I certainly agree to this, Jonathan - for the foundation of the Christian faith is truly rooted in Judaism. You can\'t have one without the other. I also agree that we can definitely learn from others\' of other faiths - for, alone, at the core of the monotheistic Judaism, Christian and Islam) religions, there is one father; Abraham. Also, including other faiths outside Christianity, human beings truly are all of God\'s creation - so almost by default there will be elements of truth woven in other worldly religions belief systems. Yet, even considering these things, though we are to respect others of differing beliefs, Christians aren\'t called to forego the commission we have been given by God Himself (to spread the gospel unto all the nations).\r\n\r\nWe encounter a slippery slope when the lines are blurred between respecting others of other faiths...and embracing, or even agreeing in mutuality, the truths they ascribe to as \"truth\"; and this plays with a line that honestly is extremely tempting to cross.\r\n\r\nWe, as Christians, need to be very careful of just what we let into our hearts as truth - for as the sinful creatures we are in our natures, what tends to sound good, really isn\'t good. It\'s kind of like candy. It tastes really good, but in the long run - it isn\'t the best for us (especially in copious amounts).\r\n\r\nThis is the division I firmly believe God is asserting here in the scripture I referenced above. The sword will divide, and it\'s intended to...but it doesn\'t mean we can\'t respect one another. We can, and should, certainly do such a thing...but we need to truly keep our eyes and hearts focused on Who holds the absolute truth above all - and follow Him.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',663,82),(673,2793,'Katie Jo','katiejosuddaby@gmail.com','','184.153.119.87','2011-12-06 01:47:32','2011-12-06 09:47:32','Joy, thank you for this article. I was just speaking with a friend the other day about how we need both life-filled and dormant periods in life.  If we are \"up\" all the time, we become manic, unbalanced.  What\'s more, without the emotional \'winters,\' we miss out on some amazing self-reflection, poetry, and conversations that seem to only happen in the melancholy times.  Your article got me thinking about the trees. It\'s almost like God is sending us a message every fall: \"It\'s ok to lose your leaves every once in a while. It\'s natural.\"  Accepting that in myself helps me keep my branches through the cold months.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.106 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(674,2793,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-12-06 04:18:23','2011-12-06 12:18:23','I grew up in the north and love winter, but the darkness always seems long. Darkness of the heart seems endless.  I\'m glad God gave me this visual picture of His/Her truth about perseverance, because I sure need it a lot.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',671,35),(675,2679,'Johnny Brooks','afutureandahope@gmail.com','http://www.purechristianity.blogs.com','41.80.115.162','2011-12-06 06:04:16','2011-12-06 14:04:16','Great interview. I have loved Jim since Divine Nobodies and am looking forward to the new book.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.59 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(676,2793,'Pam Hogeweide','pamhogeweide@gmail.com','http://www.godmessedmeup.blogspot.com','71.236.152.241','2011-12-06 07:36:04','2011-12-06 15:36:04','I love that you refer to God as Him/Her!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',674,0),(677,2793,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-12-06 07:39:40','2011-12-06 15:39:40','God is both maternal and paternal to me.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',676,35),(678,2693,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.14.187','2011-12-06 08:22:01','2011-12-06 16:22:01','This has been a really good series and interview, Jonathan. My heart breaks for Jim and I wish him the best knowing that there is a purpose for all these things. Even though there\'s a purpose for Zondervan doing what they did, his current situation still must hurt and I\'m glad that it was brought to light. Thanks for doing this and good luck to Jim.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,12),(679,2793,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-12-06 09:04:28','2011-12-06 17:04:28','Katie Jo,\r\n\r\nI haven\'t really thought about emotional winters being a natural balance to our \"up\" times. That\'s a fresh idea for meditation.  Thank you.\r\n\r\nDue to my clinical depression, emotional winter comes often and can stay a long time, and sometimes spring means \"less dark\".  But I don\'t drop my branches, because the green leaves always come, though not at times of my own choosing.  God who never leaves is my salvation, and I\'ve learned to accept things as they are, knowing that I can trust Him/Her for all I need with hope leftover to share with someone else.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',673,35),(680,2804,'Bronwen.Henry','bronwen.henry@newchurch.org','','74.95.172.169','2011-12-06 11:08:34','2011-12-06 19:08:34','Oh, thank you so much for this honest reflection. I very much appreciate it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.2.24) Gecko/20111103 Firefox/3.6.24','',0,0),(681,2804,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-12-06 11:23:04','2011-12-06 19:23:04','I wrote the poem for me, then wrote the article for those of us depressed at or by Christmas, and then realized everyone could benefit by the last sentence in the poem.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',680,35),(682,2804,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.14.187','2011-12-06 20:21:16','2011-12-07 04:21:16','Joy, great article. I\'m not a fan of the season either. And I\'m not saying that as a \"we don\'t celebrate it for what it\'s supposed to be\" statement either. There\'s no mandate to celebrate the birth of Christ in the first place.\r\n\r\nI love giving stuff to my kids. But I hate being around a bunch of people. I hate the depression I know it brings during this yearly cycle. The remembrance of a time not too long ago when a bunch of crap came at me real fast.\r\n\r\nSo, I hear you. Don\'t care for it, don\'t like it, but I smile at everyone else and move on, happy to know that someone else is enjoying it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,12),(683,2804,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-12-07 04:33:51','2011-12-07 12:33:51','I appreciate what you said, Ray.  I\'ve come to accept that this is the way it is for me, but it\'s rough.  \r\n\r\nMy favorite Christmas cookies as a child were the roll-out kind that you cut with cookie cutters, frost, then decorate with sprinkles.  They are my kids favorite\'s, too.  All the way up through high school they would bring their friends over to decorate the cookies, and the kitchen would end up trashed in six colors of icing, red and green sugar, mini-chocolate chips, and rainbow sprinkles.  It was great fun to watch them.\r\n\r\nMonday I baked cookies for six hours and froze them for now.  Will decorate them Christmas week. Cried most of the time for both good and bad memories.  Two of my children are in very painful life circumstances, and I cried for them.  And I cried because  I\'m depressed this time of year.  But I made the cookies anyway, knowing this tradition really means something to my family.  It\'s the only sweet I\'ll make, because it\'s the one they care about, and I care about them.  And like I wrote, God gives me what I need.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',682,35),(684,2837,'DaveAlan','dabeirne926@yahoo.com','','65.36.106.248','2011-12-08 05:31:18','2011-12-08 13:31:18','what about the incident when He was 12, at the temple confounding the elders? \"Did you not know I would be about my Father\'s business?\" Later on, calling God as His Father would result in the Jews wanting to kill Him (e.g., John 5). At that age, would an awareness of God as His Father be = to a consciousness of His messiahship?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,0),(685,2837,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','166.147.125.176','2011-12-08 05:44:18','2011-12-08 13:44:18','Absolutely. I asked one of my professors about this. More proof that the humanity of Christ is a struggle for a lot of people. Its not something a lot of people in the pew even think about. Thanks for your comment.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',684,12),(686,2837,'tom lynch','lynch.gerard@yahoo.com','','69.171.160.223','2011-12-08 14:00:00','2011-12-08 22:00:00','Jesus performed no acts or miracles by his divinity. The Father did the works. He lived and acted only as fully human. Or at least that is how I came to see it one day. That floored me. What insight came next also shook my foundations: it was by being FULLY human that he manifested his divinity. None of us, it appears, seem capable of our full human potential and there are endless reasons for this. If we were fully human, we would realize and live the image and likeness of God, in which we were created. Sanctification, I feel, is the process of becoming as near as possible to being fully human..',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(687,2911,'Todd Doogleman','ToddDoogleman@gmail.com','','170.135.241.46','2011-12-08 14:39:24','2011-12-08 22:39:24','Sounds like a cult to me...',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.3) Gecko/20100401 Firefox/3.6.3','',0,0),(688,2911,'Brooke Eikenberry','brooke.eikenberry@gmail.com','http://30somethingcrisis.tumblr.com/','174.97.254.53','2011-12-08 14:50:05','2011-12-08 22:50:05','I think attention to strange details, like wearing lipstick, certainly is a red flag, be it for ministries or even businesses. In very few instances does it really make sense-- the only one I can think of is modelling, where lipstick is often if not always necessary (and may in fact be what you are modelling). And that is it-- when churches started placing undo attention on details relating to \"image\", be it the church\'s image or even that of it\'s members, it often leads to focusing on things that ultimately have nothing to do with Christ.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',687,48),(689,2911,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.31.89.167','2011-12-08 15:04:56','2011-12-08 23:04:56','I\'m just curious why you think that Todd.  Could you expand a little more?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',687,1),(690,2837,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','170.185.168.19','2011-12-08 15:19:13','2011-12-08 23:19:13','Tom,\r\nWell said. I spent much of my time wrestling with the fact that Christ was just so human. But when I did realize it, it made me realize that I had found in myself amazing capability to be great things as a created being. It freed me to be something wonderful as the child of God.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',686,12),(691,3055,'scott','scottinthenw@gmail.com','','63.174.56.88','2011-12-08 19:28:37','2011-12-09 03:28:37','I am not sure who \"him\" is in the above quote. If he is referring to our president. Then I would add that not only is congress bought and paid for. So is the president. The occupy movement blames Capitalism. However, in todays common understanding, capitalism is the combination of free market and central governmental planning, which is entirely wrong of course. Nonetheless, the sentiment of the occupy crowd is correct. And understandable. I have enjoyed watching Peter Schiff, a 1%er, engage the occupy crowd, trying to direct their frustration at WashingtonD.C. instead of Wall Street.  \r\n\r\nIt is over regulated, bloated policies that have created an environment for corruption. The ability of legislative and executive power to grant favors to those willing to pay for them seems to grow increasing worse with time.  I truly believe this is what is at the heart of the occpy movements complaint.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.3; en-us; HTC-A9192/1.0 Build/GRI40) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1','',0,0),(692,3055,'scott','scottinthenw@gmail.com','','63.174.56.88','2011-12-08 19:55:17','2011-12-09 03:55:17','I was able read the transcript. Two things to add to my above comment. First. President Obama is equally as guilty as congress in this country\'s mess. The president telling congress to start behaving in the interest of the people is like the pot telling the pan to clean of the grease. They are both guilty of the same (grime) crime. Second, the comment was made that our problem stems back 20 years. In my opinion, our problems started much further back. I would like to suggest, this nation\'s problems started as far back as when we nationalized banks and created the Federal Reserve.  The occupy movement would have been far more effective if they were around at that time. Now, it would seem, the frustration is too little too late.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.3; en-us; HTC-A9192/1.0 Build/GRI40) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1','',0,0),(693,3055,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.31.89.167','2011-12-08 20:12:11','2011-12-09 04:12:11','Scott, I agree with you that Obama is part of the problem.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',691,1),(694,3055,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.31.89.167','2011-12-08 20:13:11','2011-12-09 04:13:11','Actually I would restate that.  Obama is bought by the same system, which is the problem.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',693,1),(695,3055,'scott','scottinthenw@gmail.com','','63.174.56.88','2011-12-08 23:37:33','2011-12-09 07:37:33','With respect. Let\'s not make these politicians out to be victims of the system. This so-called system is not some elusive creature wandering around seeking whom he may devour. The system was created, tinkered with, modified and nurtured by the very folks who created it. We, who are patronizingly refered  as main street, are the actual victims of a cozy relationship between statist and corporatists.\r\n\r\n.......and I don\'t have a lot of hope that there will be any change.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.3; en-us; HTC-A9192/1.0 Build/GRI40) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1','',694,0),(696,3055,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.14.187','2011-12-09 00:31:35','2011-12-09 08:31:35','Jimmy Williams sounded like a beat down step-child. The two women were trying to go with the flow. Nice find, Jonathan.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,12),(697,2911,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.14.187','2011-12-09 00:39:43','2011-12-09 08:39:43','Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on a second.\r\n\r\nAre you saying .... hold on. I may have read this wrong. It\'s late. I am sleep deprived and I read a ton of stuff. Probably a book\'s worth of material after 1 am. \r\n\r\nAre you saying a church asked you to wear lipstick for appearance sake? If that is the case, that is freaking wrong. And you have a lawsuit. Especially if you were fired over it. I don\'t have a law degree, but I\'ll represent you. We\'ll make millions.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,12),(715,3001,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.206.12','2011-12-11 11:36:59','2011-12-11 19:36:59','I find it interesting that beforehand, God\'s call seems to be directed from God.  But when a fall happens, we\'re so easily willing to think a person can invalidate that call.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',714,1),(716,3001,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.14.187','2011-12-11 13:17:03','2011-12-11 21:17:03','Michael,\r\n\r\nJohn 8 is one of the passages I followed out of the guilt, confusion and shame I felt after my fall. It\'s one of the passages I spend a lot of time on in the book. Christ was the only one who had a right to judge the adulterous woman in John 8. Instead, He chose to show compassion and love.\r\n\r\nJonathan,\r\n\r\nExcellent point. It\'s almost the same as thinking we can snatch ourselves out of the hand of the Father (John 10), when He said no one can.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',714,12),(699,2624,'Brian Smith','briansmoovbsmith@gmail.com','http://Brian','99.255.205.224','2011-12-09 05:43:31','2011-12-09 13:43:31','I believe strongly that there is one God and that He saves people from all different faith traditions. \r\n\r\nAlso, I think humans always get into trouble when they start comparing themselves to each other as if they have different intrinsic worths. \r\n\r\nI think it was Rabbi Wolpe who said, \"its not my job to prove the superiority of Judaism, but its excellence.\" I like that and its disarming. \r\n\r\nHowever, I really do think that Christianity, (on its good days when it is about Christ) has something uniquely important to offer. (almost) All religions have the concept of the Divine, but Christianity teaches how that divine is manifest as a human. In Christianity we have the opportunity to worship a knowable God. This is the reason that I won\'t trade Christianity for anything, even though I am confident that Jesus Christ can save people born into any religious tradition.\r\n\r\n  ..',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(700,2911,'Brooke Eikenberry','brooke.eikenberry@gmail.com','http://30somethingcrisis.tumblr.com/','174.97.254.53','2011-12-09 05:52:46','2011-12-09 13:52:46','In the post I didn\'t actually elaborate whether the organization was a company or a church. Although, given that I used it as an story to lead into a conversation about the Church as a whole, it doesn\'t surprise me that this is a conclusion my readers are making. I think I shall use the Church of England\'s policy re: possible monarchy pregnancies and neither confirm nor deny. Also, as I go on to say in a later paragraph, I came in without lipstick very shortly after the threat and was not fired. I did leave the organization soon after, as I had multiple issues with their policies. This is merely the icing on the cake. ; )\n\nThat being said, for the sake of discussion say this was a church? Should a fellow believer sue when this happens?  Or like a previous commenter suggested, is it something that should immediately suggest a cult to us? I would really be interested in hearing your thoughts!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',697,48),(714,3001,'Michael Levitt','levitt.mike@gmail.com','http://levittmike.com','173.32.167.10','2011-12-11 11:30:40','2011-12-11 19:30:40','If pastors that fall still receive the call from God to be a pastor, then I have a message for for those church members and other members of society that disagree with God\'s call:\r\n\r\nRead John 8: 1-11.\r\n\r\nBlessings!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(701,3055,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.31.89.167','2011-12-09 07:44:46','2011-12-09 15:44:46','Scott I\'m not denying they have a choice to be part and partake in the system.  Every system is created and nurtured by human beings.  But when we demonize those who participate in the system, it solidifies the problem.  No one can escape or change because we blame human beings that are already in the system.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',695,1),(702,2911,'Melody Harrison Hanson','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2011-12-09 14:45:56','2011-12-09 22:45:56','Wrong, just plain wrong to dwell on the external and superficial.  It\'s crap, whether it\'s in the church or at a job.  Weird, my dad was a control freak and used to \"make\" my mom wear her lipstick too.  Creepy, controlling and wrong.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,64),(703,2911,'Brooke Eikenberry','brooke.eikenberry@gmail.com','http://30somethingcrisis.tumblr.com/','174.97.254.53','2011-12-09 18:24:04','2011-12-10 02:24:04','I just don\'t get the lipstick obsession. My husband doesn\'t either; he thinks I look great with or without it and doesn\'t really give an opinion beyond that, but I KNOW he doesn\'t like kissing a mouth full of lipstick. Blech, who would? I think that control-wise, it\'s pretty useful to have people overly worried about tiny details, like reapplying lipstick 500 times a day. It keeps them from noticing other things wrong in the company, ministry, relationship or other sick system. \n\nMan looks at the outer appearance, God looks at the heart. It makes me wonder what church leaders today who focus on image and appearance so much would do if they came face to face with Christ incarnate: \"....he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.\" (Isaiah 53:2). Slap a little lipstick on him! ; )',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',702,48),(704,2624,'John Lambert','john@spreadtheflame.com','http://www.spreadtheflame.com','183.88.67.245','2011-12-09 23:12:27','2011-12-10 07:12:27','I live and work in a majority Buddhist nation and study Buddhism as it is taught and practiced here on an ongoing basis.  I have dedicated by life to understand the Buddhist here in Southeast Asia as well as work to build bridges to understanding rather than walls.  \r\n\r\nThat being said, I feel that this article is simply sloppy and displays that the author does not truly understand her own Christian faith as well as the faith of most Buddhists.  In speaking like this, she dishonors both.\r\n\r\nFirst, Buddha could never be a savior because his primary teaching is that there is no savior but oneself.  \"Depend on yourself\" is the mantra of Buddhist teaching.  This is completely antithetical to Jesus who told us \"without me you can do nothing.\"\r\n\r\nIn Buddhism there is no room for or belief in a Creator God who is the highest God.  \"gods\" (if one chooses to incorporate this view into their understanding) in Buddhism are just like humans in the sense that they too are subject to the law of karma.  Buddhists would call God \"awija\" or ignorance, from which we must escape.\r\n\r\nChristianity is about love: Love God supremely and love others as yourself. (To me, this can include speaking the truth in love).  Islam is about \"submission.\"  Buddhism emphasizes \"compassion\" for all sentient beings but in the end, you are on your own, subject to your own karma.  For instance, if you are handicapped or a child with Aids, then it happened because of your own deeds.  To the Buddhist, love itself is a form of karma and is something to be eradicated on the pathway to Nirvana, ie) nothingness or being extinguished.\r\n\r\nWe can be respectful of other people and their culture while still contending for truth.  This is true love and not the easy way out like saying \"all roads lead to the same place.\" In fact, it would not be loving at all to have the truth (Jesus) and then to act like there are other equal truths.  He is above all (name above every other name given among men whereby we MUST be saved).\r\n\r\nSwedenborg is saying that a nation can be saved by keeping moral precepts??  If this is the case, all nations including Buddhist nations are doomed!  The scriptures do teach that God has given general revelation and common grace to all peoples, but the New Testament also says that he has \"overlooked the times of men\'s ignorance, but now he commands men everywhere to repent because he has fixed a day when he will judge all of mankind through this one that he has appointed, Jesus the Chist.\"\r\n\r\nMorality is not the Gospel at all.  The keeping of rules and laws is not good news.  It is a burden that no person can carry in his own power.\r\n\r\nThe Gospel is that there is nothing that we can do to be saved in and of ourselves yet God made a way for us through sending Jesus as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of us all.  However we must hear his offer of salvation and place our explicit faith in him alone.  God has called his people to this challenge in their generation.  (Matthew 28:18-20, Matthew 24:14)\r\n\r\nGod Almighty has fully revealed himself in the person of Jesus Christ.  The Scriptures tell us that \"in Him (Jesus) dwells all the fullness of the Godhead in bodily form.\"\r\n\r\nBuddha taught many great things based on the insights that he had in his generation.  He saw that the world is suffering and that our desires (even the desire to love) causes suffering, he believed that suffering and dissatisfaction could be eradicated by a faithfully consistent adherence to an eight fold path.  He knew what he knew, but it was not enough.  \r\n\r\nJesus is enough, both philosophically and in reality.  Until you are certain of that fact, you will stay wishy washy and not really able to help anyone find true enlightenment and the freedom that comes through reconciliation with the God who created us...on his terms, not ours.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_8) AppleWebKit/534.50.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.6 Safari/533.22.3','',0,0),(705,2881,'Clark Goble','cdgoble@gmail.com','http://theimperfectdisciples.com/','174.101.112.52','2011-12-10 09:19:11','2011-12-10 17:19:11','What a wonderful article! I don\'t have all the answers either, but this is a conversation we need to have. Adults need to work to stop bullying! \r\n\r\nThanks for writing this.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',0,115),(706,2624,'Bronwen','bronwen.henry@newchurch.org','','66.16.105.41','2011-12-10 10:38:15','2011-12-10 18:38:15','Brian, thanks for your comment. That is a beautiful quote from Rabbi Wolpe. I appreciate your passion. I am interested in learning the challenging path to walk with humility and confidence.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',699,0),(707,2624,'Bronwen','bronwen.henry@newchurch.org','','66.16.105.41','2011-12-10 10:56:44','2011-12-10 18:56:44','John,\r\nThanks for taking time to share this comment and your perspective. I will try and steer clear of your criticism that you begin with and focus on the heart of your thoughtful message. In my article I spoke from experience, and my hope was to pose questions and provoke thought not to draw specific conclusions about either religion.\r\n\r\nI am interested in what it means to walk humbly with our God. How does one follow Jesus Christ with humility and confidence? (I pose these questions to myself, more than to any specific reader).\r\n\r\nTell me more about your thinking on all nations being doomed (if salvation is, as Swedenborg says, \'by keeping moral precepts\')? I don\'t think I understand your disagreement with that notion.\r\n\r\nCan someone do the work of repentance without direct access to the New Testament gospel (knowledge of Jesus &amp; his journey)? I think that they can. And from my experience (not scholarly training on Buddhism), I observe buddhist doing important work of repentance of trying to shun/let go of negativity and open up to a positive force AND be a loving/positive force in this world (these are my words/paraphrase, not direct buddhist teaching).\r\n\r\nTo me, seeing the beauty of what the creator is doing through all religions does not dishonor the role of the Lord God Jesus Christ, but in fact elevates it to being so impactful, so transformative, that the influence of Jesus Christ is not limited to the Christian walk.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',704,0),(708,2624,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.31.89.167','2011-12-10 11:02:59','2011-12-10 19:02:59','I would also add that before someone is a Buddhist, Muslim, Christian, Atheist, or Hindu (or any category for that matter) one is first a human being created in the image of God.  What i think, and clarify me if I\'m wrong Bronwen, is that you are suggesting God is at work in the person regardless of their practice. And what you found beautiful is someone recognizing that beauty in your faith. \n\nGrace is established by God, not in the belief of the person.  if it was, it would be works.  Grace is simply recognized in the belief of the person. \n\nI personally have a lot of friends who are Buddhist and they would whole heartedly disagree with your assessment John.  I don\'t doubt that this is YOUR assessment.  Just be careful not to assume it is the practice of everyone.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',707,1),(709,2911,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-12-10 11:34:02','2011-12-10 19:34:02','Ha!  \"Slap a little lipstick on him!\"  That made me giggle.  I can only imagine.\r\n\r\nIt\'s definitely a bad sign when outward appearance becomes the focus.  I\'ve been to churches where a single detail becomes overwhelmingly important to some people, to the point of obsession.  In trying to fix that one perceived flaw, the leadership have overlooked more pressing concerns.\r\n\r\nI suspect that a lot of it is that church leaders worry when their congregations aren\'t growing at the same rate as other, similar churches.  Panic clouds their thinking and they begin to dwell on the unimportant details, as though that\'s what\'s keeping people away.\r\n\r\nAnd my husband would agree with yours about the lipstick.  The last time I ever kissed him with lipstick on was at our wedding, and he made such a face that everyone started laughing.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',703,43),(710,2881,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-12-10 11:37:03','2011-12-10 19:37:03','It\'s hard to be an adult on the \"outside\" of things.  I no longer work at a school, but even when I did, I often felt powerless.  The one time I defended a kid who had spent the better part of the year being bullied, I was reprimanded for my sympathy.  Maybe what we can do is put the power back in the hands of the kids themselves to stop their peers.  If we adults empower them, maybe they can make a difference.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',705,43),(712,2624,'John Lambert','john@spreadtheflame.com','http://www.spreadtheflame.com','183.88.67.245','2011-12-10 20:52:38','2011-12-11 04:52:38','You guys are good at being respectful and I respect that, honestly I do.  \r\n\r\nThe Apostle Paul, writer of 2/3 of the New Testament...(who was confirmed in his position as a true Apostle by the Apostle Peter himself (2 Peter 3:15), who was chief among the Apostles that had personally been with Jesus) \r\n\r\nasks the key questions of \"HOW?\" (see Romans 10:13-15) which leads to action to be taken by the church of Jesus to fulfill his command of Matthew 28:18-20 and other such similar commission verses.\r\n\r\nWe know that the nations have enough general revelation to make them accountable to God, but not enough to save them. (see Romans 1:18-32).  Since we all have sinned against God and there is none that is righteous in God\'s sight (Romans 3:10, 23), we must come to God, lay down our arms of self righteousness and pride (religion included), and humbly confess with our own mouths the absolute truth of his message of the resurrection of Jesus and his perfect and absolute Lordship (Romans 10:9-10).  \r\n\r\nOur (personal and innate) sin has separated us from God (Rom 6:23), so from what I understand, we all have a disease sin (\"harmatia\": missing the mark of perfection) and nothing imperfect or not perfectly holy can be in God\'s presence.  The only cure is Jesus Christ, being sent as God\'s perfect substitute and cure for the common sickness of all mankind.  For his work to be in effect, we must \"receive\" him and be saved from the \"wrath to come.\" (Acts 4:12, John 1:12, I John 5:12-13, I Ths 1:10)\r\n\r\nMay God\'s true enlightenment be upon your path as you search out the truth.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_8) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',708,0),(713,2624,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.44.206.12','2011-12-11 10:36:00','2011-12-11 18:36:00','John, I created Provoketive to be a space of healthy dialogue without judgment.  Something good happens when we\'re honest in our thoughts without getting angry at each other.  Your voice is always welcome here.\n\nI also appreciate your thought process.  But I wouldn\'t share one of your (historical) assumptions.  You said, \"and nothing imperfect or not perfectly holy can be in God’s presence.\" This is a fallacy that the entirety of Scripture debunks, beginning with the first moment of sin in the Garden.  God shows up immediately to restore.  It is humanity that consistently makes the assumption we can\'t be in God\'s presence, as seen in Adam and Eve\'s hiding from God. If this idea were actually true it would limit God and debunk the idea of grace, which existed before time (2 Timothy 1:9).  Grace was always present.  It was humanity that couldn\'t see it.\n\nAnd you said, \"May God’s true enlightenment be upon your path as you search out the truth.\" How very Buddhist of you. ;-P',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',712,1),(717,3001,'David','dklinefirst@yahoo.com','','98.194.15.225','2011-12-11 14:55:19','2011-12-11 22:55:19','When I asked a pastor this very question about the possibility of my someday returning to ministry, he quoted Romans 11:29 and then only moments later he made the comment that he \"wouldn\'t support\" me but \"wouldn\'t stand in my way.\" Huh? God\'s call is either irrevocable or it isn\'t. When I asked another pastor about it, he suggested that i \"go to the foreign mission field where they don\'t care about that sort of thing.\" It\'s a tough one to be sure. This one thing I know: I\'ve never met anyone in any church who had perfectly clean hands and a perfectly pure heart... apart from grace, that it is. It would be nice to think that our mistakes don\'t forever disqualify us from God\'s call, but the truth is, whether they do or don\'t, it is a very long road back if we choose to take it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(718,3001,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.14.187','2011-12-11 19:14:12','2011-12-12 03:14:12','David,\r\n\r\nYou\'re right, friend. I say that I\'m not sure, but part of me is. A man who has been restored and is repentant, as you say, has a long road ahead of him. He has people he has to regain trust from, a system to work through and a process within himself that is mind numbing.\r\n\r\nHowever, I don\'t ever see God turning His back on the man. During the process, the man may find himself doing other things and he most certainly finds himself a better and different type of minister. \r\n\r\nIt\'s a long road, but it\'s always a minute distance of between us and God when it comes to forgiveness, thanks to Christ.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',717,12),(719,1977,'Ryan Nix','QueerAsFaith@gmail.com','http://queerasfaith.wordpress.com/','67.67.11.15','2011-12-11 21:32:31','2011-12-12 05:32:31','Love the article. Christianity does have hyper-masculine overtones. I feel that I was taught very well when I was young growing up in a \"spirit filled\" church environment. One of the things I remember is a message where we talked about some of the names of God, like El Shaddai, which as I was taught is a feminine gender word that means breasted one. Doing a quick search on the phrase I found this from a Rabbi tailing about it, hearing it from a Jewish point of view give a depth of meaning (usually) that we don\'t get in the english translated faith we have today. Here is the link. http://www.theshalomcenter.org/node/303',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/534.51.22 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.1 Safari/534.51.22','',0,0),(720,1977,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-12-12 07:57:18','2011-12-12 15:57:18','Great article!  I didn\'t know that\'s what it meant.  What beautiful imagery.  Psalm 131:2 uses a motherly metaphor as well: \"But I have stilled and quieted my soul; like a weaned child with its mother, like a weaned child is my soul within me.\"  I love the idea that we can draw comfort from God as both mother and father.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',719,43),(721,3023,'Dianna','diannaeanderson@gmail.com','http://www.diannaeanderson.net','173.165.46.141','2011-12-12 08:47:19','2011-12-12 16:47:19','Oh, phew! When I first saw the headline, I was wondering if Alise had suddenly had a strange 180 turnabout on the issue! But, actually, this makes one hell of a lot of sense. These are really good thoughts - thanks for this, Alise!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,0),(722,3023,'Bekkah','velvetrabbit13@gmail.com','http://www.gatebeautiful.ca','24.129.228.60','2011-12-12 10:21:18','2011-12-12 18:21:18','I too was wondering where this was going as it was easy to make an assumption based on the title ;)\r\n\r\nLove this, Alise.  Funny that the words meant to condemn gay marriage said by Michele Bachmann, in effect have actually condoned it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(723,3023,'Jo Malone','jo.s.malone@gmail.com','http://flavors.me/jomalone','124.197.52.156','2011-12-12 10:35:34','2011-12-12 18:35:34','I didn\'t think for a second that you were opposed to marriage equality from the headline - love your work!\r\n\r\nI\'m going to do my gay volunteering at the Salvation Army today (now, THAT stirs up contention for some people). Tonight I\'m going to do some gay packing so my partner and our kids can go on a gay holiday for a few days.\r\n\r\nHave a gay day y\'all!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,0),(724,3023,'Pam Hogeweide','pamhogeweide@gmail.com','http://www.godmessedmeup.blogspot.com','71.236.152.241','2011-12-12 10:45:05','2011-12-12 18:45:05','Great play on words and hook for your article! \r\n\r\nAnd of course, you make a strong, valid point. \r\n\r\nGood stuff..!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(725,3023,'Amy Mitchell','royalfamily12@gmail.com','http://www.unchainedfaith.wordpress.com','74.69.23.179','2011-12-12 11:05:21','2011-12-12 19:05:21','I love, love, love this!  I stopped calling it \"gay marriage\" ages ago and have long since referred to marriage equality, out of respect for the many people in my life with same-sex partners.  For the same reason, I object to people referring to it as \"the gay lifestyle\" (what does that even mean?) and \"the gay agenda.\"  I\'m proud to live in a state where marriage equality already exists by law.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,43),(726,3023,'Cody Stauffer','staucody72@gmail.com','http://wearebecoming.org','75.167.129.76','2011-12-12 12:25:55','2011-12-12 20:25:55','Excellent.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,17),(727,3023,'Sarah Moon','moonsn11@gmail.com','http://www.moonchild11.wordpress.com','184.58.115.184','2011-12-12 12:43:21','2011-12-12 20:43:21','I once read a tweet by Chris Coulfer (Kurt on Glee) that went something like (hugely paraphrased): \"I don\'t call it gay marriage. I call it marriage. I don\'t park my gay car in my gay garage\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(728,3018,'Bill Walker','williamawalkeriii@gmail.com','http://billwalker.wordpress.com','24.160.34.219','2011-12-12 13:04:46','2011-12-12 21:04:46','This is great, Travis - \"we wait for the day when Jesus comes to bring light into the darkness.\" Having this alongside of \"we don’t have to wait around in order to have peace; we can work for peace right now.\"  The already-not yet is hard to live in, and yet we must live in it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.2.24) Gecko/20111103 Firefox/3.6.24','',0,20),(729,2804,'Melody H Hanson (@melodyhhanson)','melhhanson@yahoo.com','http://logicandimagination.wordpress.com','68.185.168.31','2011-12-12 13:30:22','2011-12-12 21:30:22','It hit me Sunday that one of the reasons I doubted \"everything\" about God as I grew up (I\'m developing a list) is Christmas and how we celebrate it. \r\n\r\nThe whole thing has been hijacked by a secular idea and even if it weren\'t secular (because I don\'t have problem with secular what I have a problem with is the way we pull it into church!  And into our lives as believers. \r\n\r\n Then I read this article by Ann VosKamp and I realized why.  You must read this.  http://www.aholyexperience.com/2011/12/when-christmas-gets-radical-whose-birthday-is-it-really/ \r\n\r\nI am not brave enough to change, at least not completely, not this year.  But this is what it should be about.  Beyond that, I\'m with you and really depressed.   Thank you for being honest.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(730,3023,'Ken Silva','apprisingministries@gmail.com','http://apprising.org','75.69.180.183','2011-12-12 15:22:05','2011-12-12 23:22:05','Our Creator defines marriage as between a man and a woman, period: “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man [male] shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife [woman, female] and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh.\" (Matthew 19:4-6)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0; FunWebProducts; BOIE9;ENUSSEM)','',0,0),(731,3023,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.31.90.110','2011-12-12 15:48:32','2011-12-12 23:48:32','Ken, just wanted to ask where the word marriage is in that statement.  I\'m not finding it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',730,1),(732,3023,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2011-12-12 16:05:44','2011-12-13 00:05:44','I do love to cause terror among folks who read regularly! ;-D\r\n\r\nNope, I\'m still firmly LGBT affirming. Just figured it was time to talk about why I don\'t ever talk about gay marriage.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',721,30),(733,3023,'Ken Silva','apprisingministries@gmail.com','http://apprising.org','75.69.180.183','2011-12-12 16:11:42','2011-12-13 00:11:42','Well, Jonathan; I\'m guessing that since the context is a disccusion the Pharisees were having with Jesus re. divorcing one\'s wife, we on pretty safe ground assuming we\'re talking about marriage. I hope this clears the fog for you.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0; FunWebProducts; BOIE9;ENUSSEM)','',731,0),(734,3023,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2011-12-12 16:12:32','2011-12-13 00:12:32','If I can make Michele Bachmann speak out in favor of marriage equality, I\'m all over it. Ha!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',722,30),(735,3023,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2011-12-12 16:16:13','2011-12-13 00:16:13','We\'re enjoyed some straight eggs and bacon for supper. Now we\'re watching straight Jeopardy. \r\n\r\nI think those would be WAY more fun if they were gay.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',723,30),(736,3023,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2011-12-12 16:32:06','2011-12-13 00:32:06','Yeah, I jettisoned both of those phrases a while ago. Especially \"gay lifestyle.\" Because seriously? That just doesn\'t mean anything at all. I held onto gay marriage longer, but it\'s been out for a pretty long time. Just never said anything about why I quit using it until now.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',725,30),(737,3023,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2011-12-12 16:57:52','2011-12-13 00:57:52','That\'s funny - I was totally tweeting about Colfer today. His singing makes me all swoony.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',727,30),(738,3023,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2011-12-12 17:21:40','2011-12-13 01:21:40','I understand that this is how you read this passage. But given that marriage has changed significantly since the time of Christ anyway (and even more from the time of Genesis), I consider those words to be more prescriptive than definitive. In other words, if you\'re married, be with your spouse - put their needs first. I think this applies regardless of the sex of the people in said marriage.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',730,30),(739,3023,'Ken Silva','apprisingministries@gmail.com','http://apprising.org','75.69.180.183','2011-12-12 17:43:43','2011-12-13 01:43:43','And I understand how you read this passage as well. The covenant of marriage, as only being between a man and a woman, as described by our Creator hasn\'t changed at all; because God doesn\'t change. That said, no doubt culture\'s ideas of marriage have most certainlychanged. I have no doubt that one day soon it\'ll even completely sanction same-sex marriage. However, that will be in spite of the Word of God, not because of it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0; FunWebProducts; BOIE9;ENUSSEM)','',738,0),(740,2804,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-12-12 18:14:40','2011-12-13 02:14:40','The problem for me -- in me -- is all this rah rah fanfare that is supposed to be about love often isn\'t at all.  It\'s about stuff -- having it, buying it, seeking it, trying to buy love with it, trying to be \"good enough\" with it.\r\n\r\nI read that article you attached.  She doesn\'t have my depression, but she has a similar heart to mine.  But oh, girl.......the music on that site.  I\'m still listening to it an hour after reading the post.  So I thank YOU for that gift.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',729,35),(741,2624,'Ken Silva','apprisingministries@gmail.com','http://apprising.org','75.69.180.183','2011-12-12 18:45:13','2011-12-13 02:45:13','\"I would also suggest that Jesus was deeply informed by Judaism\"\r\n\r\nYou do realize that Jesus is God Himself in human flesh, right. He is the only authority by which a man may come to salvation (cf. Acts 4:10-12).',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0; FunWebProducts; BOIE9;ENUSSEM)','',663,0),(742,2624,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.31.90.110','2011-12-12 21:25:24','2011-12-13 05:25:24','I didn\'t say otherwise.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',741,1),(743,3080,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-12-13 08:41:50','2011-12-13 16:41:50','Clark, you wrote, \"If you have experienced the pain of divorce, you may be tempted to hide yourself in the darkness. For fear of judgment and ridicule you may avoid your church and Christian friends. You may be tempted to withdraw from God.\"  I did the same kind of hiding from church, family and Christian friends during divorce because I already KNEW some of them had the guillotine waiting for me -- the message was loud and clear.  Because of those few individuals, I was unwilling to take the risk of attack and having to defend myself with everyone else.  It felt safer to hide from everyone rather than expose my need and place myself in the position of being shot.\r\n\r\nI struggle with the very same issues currently regarding depression and addiction.  I know the few I can trust, know those who must be avoided at all costs, but hide myself from the rest of the people in my church, family and friends because I feel I can\'t handle any other shrapnel.  I would rather risk of missing out on someone\'s support than setting myself up as a dart board.\r\n\r\nAnd yet, I\'ve learned that God still is willing to grant us His/Her discerning spirit, which includes knowing when to speak and when to stay silent.  And God still sends individuals who love us no matter what -- assistant Shepherds sent to seek the lost sheep.  Like you, I\'ve delayed some of the support God sent me because I wasn\'t ready to receive it.  Like you, I have a few obnoxiously persistant friends who won\'t give up on me and follow God\'s leadership and heart into the wilderness as long and often as it takes to reach me.\r\n\r\nThank you for your post.  I\'m thankful for both of us that God has sent us people who care enough not to give up.  And I\'m grateful we now know how crucial it is to extend that to other people.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,35),(744,3023,'Joe Machuta','joe@rijenterprises.com','','99.189.116.26','2011-12-13 08:46:23','2011-12-13 16:46:23','In spite of the gospel Ken? Really?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',739,0),(745,2508,'Ruth Schmid','r-a-s@cox.net','http://ruthsrefelexions.wordpress.com','72.222.229.217','2011-12-13 09:32:06','2011-12-13 17:32:06','Your writing has encouraged my heart. I can\'t say that I have integrated what you\'ve written, but my heart cries for this truth to be a reality in my life - my marriage - my church! May God continue to raise us up to be as he intended, before the fall in Eden.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; HPNTDF; .NET4.0C)','',0,0),(746,3023,'wiskers','dwicks54@yahoo.es','','85.60.224.217','2011-12-13 09:49:36','2011-12-13 17:49:36','yes, I agree with Ken. God doesn´t change  even though we may from time to time but I don´t think there has ever been a time when same sex marriage existed in any legal format until these days. That strikes me as at the very least significant. But the point isn´t only this. The point is whether we understand marriage as between a man and a woman. Divorce the reproductive purpose of marriage from the relationship and you can more or less agree to anything but the unfortunate fact is that men and women have natural children that bond them, same sex partners cannot. You can find diverse ways around the problem but not naturally.\r\n\r\nIn a liberal society such as the western world is one has to learn to live with other options but my worldview is that if samesex marriage were to become the norm it would bring about substantial changes to natural childbearing and that is the part which has the strongest argument against. Sorry folks. But there are strong and natural arguments against same sex marriages. The fact that the Bible even mentions it clearly indicates this too. I would like to hear gay christians making their point though. I haven´t heard them discussing the issue.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',744,0),(747,3023,'Jenken','Verstappen@shaw.ca','','208.98.249.141','2011-12-13 10:14:14','2011-12-13 18:14:14','\"as it was in the beginning is now and will be forever.\"  Humanity (being created) does not controll the creator. If he was controllable, that would be a god I would\'ve t want to believe in.  What we have morphed into does not translate into what god now accepts. \r\n\r\nRegarding the word \"marriage\" being biblical. Many concepts we believe to be truthful, accepted by society and happen to be biblical at the same time are not necessarily spelled out in the bible.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X; en_US) AppleWebKit (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile [FBAN/FBForIPhone;FBAV/4.0.3;FBBV/4030.0;FBDV/iPhone3,1;FBMD/iPhone;FBSN/iPhone OS;FBSV/5.0.1;FBSS/2; FBCR/Rogers;FBID/phone;FBLC/en_US;FBSF/2.0]','',738,0),(748,2624,'Ruth Schmid','r-a-s@cox.net','http://ruthsrefelexions.wordpress.com','72.222.229.217','2011-12-13 11:23:10','2011-12-13 19:23:10','Jonathan, for some reason I had always heard (or percieved, even taught), that because God is holy, sin separates us from him and he can\'t have relationship with us until we accept Christ as our Savior and mediator to him, thus covering us with Jesus\' righteousness which then allows us to be included in the family of God and receive eternal life, and be intimate with him. So are you saying that it is really because of our shame over sin that we are separated from him? Not because he is holy? Shame does definitely separate us from God and each other.\r\nThese might seem like rambling thoughts . . . and maybe they are. : )\r\nI guess I am still learning about his grace.  I like your perspective, that God showed up immediately after Adam and Eve sinned, to restore.\r\nI too have studied (a little) other religions and what stands out to me, is God\'s grace reaching out to us, not us trying to reach or work our way to something. \r\nWhat was it about Paul and so many early Christians who suffered persecution for their faith? Did they suffer because they took a firm stand about the good news of Jesus? Not that we try to incite others\' anger over our beliefs, but I wonder if respecting other religions can cross the line to compromising the gospel. There must be a fine line somewhere.?',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; HPNTDF; .NET4.0C)','',0,0),(749,3080,'Clark Goble','cdgoble@gmail.com','http://theimperfectdisciples.com/','174.101.112.52','2011-12-13 11:52:40','2011-12-13 19:52:40','You are so correct Joy. I was trying to put into words just today how God\'s love and grace in my life has instilled in me the desire to extend that love and grace to other people. It is that same love and grace that Christians should attempt to imitate in their own lives. \r\n\r\nLike you, I am very grateful! \r\n\r\nClark',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',0,115),(750,2624,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.31.90.110','2011-12-13 12:07:19','2011-12-13 20:07:19','Ruth, I wrote an entire book on debunking that myth (that God is defined by our actions and can\'t be in the presence of sin).  The problem is sin, but not in the way you\'ve probably heard. It is about shame and losing site of God\'s original judgment of good.\r\n\r\nhttp://www.amazon.com/Discovering-God-Imagination-Jonathan-Brink/dp/0615513956\r\n\r\nWhat I find liberating is beginning with God\'s original reality in creation, that we are all human beings created in the image of God.  Grace is always there because it\'s within the fabric of creation.  So it allows me to see with love, in spite of what someone believes.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:6.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0','',748,1),(751,2508,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://www.quietanthem.com/','75.71.99.63','2011-12-13 14:44:11','2011-12-13 22:44:11','Ruth, I\'m so glad this encouraged you; that was my hope in writing it. I\'ll pray the Lord will give you boldness and wisdom in rising up in your marriage, your church, to fulfill your destiny.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',745,102),(752,2508,'Hillary','hillary@hillarymcfarland.com','','76.185.174.127','2011-12-13 20:12:40','2011-12-14 04:12:40','Beautiful article. I love how the Lord moves His people. I loved your last statement and I also wonder about it. Do you think it is important to redefine gender roles? A role is a part that is played. In my own life and thinking I\'m coming to the understanding that if we live organically, being transformed by the renewing of our minds and walking in the spirit, we will do or be whatever it is the Lord wills. I just worry that if we redefine a role, we will effectively just re-shape the fence that is already around us. Maybe we can do away with roles and just be what God calls each of us to be. I don\'t know...these are just very raw thoughts. \r\n\r\n<i>Marriages cannot function properly without both spouses operating in their innate strengths—spiritual or otherwise.</i> Amen! Keep writing and doing this amazing work.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(753,2508,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://www.quietanthem.com/','75.71.99.63','2011-12-13 20:55:45','2011-12-14 04:55:45','Hillary, I have <em>never</em> looked at \"roles\" in the way you described. I think your analysis--raw, but incredibly lucid--is brilliant and on-point: \"Maybe we can do away with roles and just be what God calls each of us to be.\" Come, Lord Jesus, come. \n\nThank you for your thoughts and encouragement. Indeed, the Lord is moving globally to cause His daughters to rise up and prophesy.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',752,102),(754,2508,'Kristen','kristenrosser@hotmail.com','http://krwordgazer.blogspot.com','75.145.77.153','2011-12-14 17:07:52','2011-12-15 01:07:52','This is a lovely article, and so true.  Consider one question, though:  Given that Paul\'s words in Eph. 5:21 &amp; following were spoken originally to men who were already in authority in their homes by the law of the land, and given that Paul never once told men to \"lead\" their wives, but rather to act as Christ did when He laid down His high position in order to raise the church up to be glorious-- what if the Holy Spirit, through Paul, were actually leading Christians AWAY from \"because he is the man, that makes him the leader\" as a paradigm?  What if the Holy Spirit were leading those first-century marriages towards a Kingdom mentality that \"there is not male and female, for you are all one in Christ\" according to Gal 3:28?  In that case, if we continue to follow the leading of the Spirit, then both the husband and the wife can be co-spiritual leaders of their homes, leading the family side by side, each in  his or her own area of strength-- in mutual submission according to Eph. 5:21.  I\'d urge you and your husband to give this serious consideration-- that the Kingdom of God is not about someone always getting to be the leader just because he\'s male.  My husband and I are trying it, and it works!',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1; Trident/4.0; GTB7.2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E)','',0,0),(755,2508,'Renee Ronika Klug','reneeronika@hotmail.com','http://www.quietanthem.com/','75.71.99.63','2011-12-14 19:45:07','2011-12-15 03:45:07','Kristen, you write: \"if we continue to follow the leading of the Spirit, then both the husband and the wife can be co-spiritual leaders of their homes, leading the family side by side, each in his or her own area of strength– in mutual submission according to Eph. 5:21.\" \n\nThis idea is the thesis of my essay. My husband and I <em>are</em> doing this, and it\'s working. \n\nI\'m not sure how the miscommunication occurred, but I appreciate your contribution of the Ephesians passage and the idea of Christ initiating/ordaining a new paradigm. Yes, yes, yes, indeed.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',754,102),(756,3023,'Austin','aleikenberry@yahoo.com','','63.240.121.193','2011-12-15 06:05:55','2011-12-15 14:05:55','I\'d like to bring up a different, but related point.\r\n\r\nYou started this off with a quote by Michelle Bachman and the political environment in which the discussion of \"Gay\" Marriage that revolves in that sphere (or marriage equality, I get the point). I\'d like to question why we put marriage in the civil sphere at all? It seems to me that the most effective response to the marriage debate is to look at the history of marriage. It seems to me that institutionalizing marriage has caused many more problems than it solves. Going back to the institution of the Church of England, the interracial marriage debate in the last century in the US, and now the marriage equality debate, it seems that the debate around the legalization or the legal institution of marriage has been very damaging. Granted, with the foundation of the Church of England, there was more going into it than merely the Pope\'s refusal to annul Henry\'s marriage, but that was a major point. Also, it was a religious institution that was doing this, but primarily for political reasons (he was being held by the Holy Roman Emporer, uncle to Catharine - Henry\'s first wife).\r\n\r\nRegardless, it seems completely inappropriate to me that our politicians are setting the agenda on an instution that was founded in the religious arena. Why are we resorting to political means to authorize marriage of any type. It seems to me, that for those of us who view marriage as primarily a religious institution should be boldly declaring that the government has no authority to define/restrict/promote/whatever marriage. That the Church is the only appropriate institution to define it, and thereby, that the religious institution of marriage is protected by the religious institution of the Church.\r\n\r\nIf the government views long-term, stable relationships as healthy and beneficial to the community, then let them create a legal institution that they can protect and define, just don\'t call it marriage - the term itself is and has always been too laden for politics. \r\n\r\nI am regularly frustrated that this is primarily a political debate. Especially because it usually turns to religious issues (as can be shown in the comment string).',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; InfoPath.3; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E)','',0,0),(757,2508,'Kristen','kristenrosser@hotmail.com','http://krwordgazer.blogspot.com','75.145.77.153','2011-12-15 12:59:03','2011-12-15 20:59:03','Renee, I\'m so glad to hear it!  I think the place where the miscommunication happened was where you said this:\r\n\r\n\"Since we trust each other in these abilities, Greg as the \'spiritual leader\' of our family is not burdened down by religious expectation to be perfect in single handedly making decisions for our family.\"\r\n\r\nI saw that you put \"spiritual leader\" in quotes, but it still looked to me like you were saying Greg was THE spiritual leader of your family-- so I thought you were saying that you were giving yourself more latitude to give him input, but the buck still stopped with him.  I\'m glad that you consider yourselves to both be the family\'s spiritual leaders.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 5.1; Trident/4.0; GTB7.2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 3.0.4506.2152; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E)','',755,0),(758,3114,'Bill Walker','williamawalkeriii@gmail.com','http://billwalker.wordpress.com','24.160.34.219','2011-12-15 15:28:04','2011-12-15 23:28:04','Kinda cool that this got posted on the same day:\r\n\r\nhttp://www.sojo.net/blogs/2011/12/15/real-war-christmas-fox-news',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.2.24) Gecko/20111103 Firefox/3.6.24','',0,20),(759,3114,'Roger','rblazn1@live.com','','74.196.81.124','2011-12-17 05:42:35','2011-12-17 13:42:35','Bill, I\'m not sure why you say you are \"still waiting for atonement\". To me, that occurred the moment I asked Jesus for forgiveness and made him the Lord of my life. That restored the broken relationship between myself and God. :)',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(760,3149,'Michael Levitt','levitt.mike@gmail.com','http://levittmike.com','173.32.167.10','2011-12-17 09:01:50','2011-12-17 17:01:50','Praying that your heart is fully open to what God has in store.  Forgiveness gives you freedom.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(761,3149,'Christian Salafia','christian@homebrewedtheology.com','http://homebrewedtheology.com','65.114.230.33','2011-12-17 09:15:08','2011-12-17 17:15:08','Thanks Michael.\r\n\r\nI\'ve come to forgiveness on a lot of the things I held against my ex over the years, but with the recent developments I\'ve discovered I still have a long way to go.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',0,47),(762,3114,'Bill Walker','williamawalkeriii@gmail.com','http://billwalker.wordpress.com','24.160.34.219','2011-12-17 09:50:43','2011-12-17 17:50:43','This is the comment I would expect someone to bring.  Thanks, Roger.  I\'m not necessarily disagreeing with you here.  The point I\'m trying to make is not that atonement is unaccessible, historically speaking.  In faith as Christians we believe it is.  What I\'m concerned about is the extent to which, especially during Christmas and Easter, we rush to it and miss out on important dimensions other than the one you\'re speaking of.  Do we give due considering to the suffering that we cause others?  Do we recognize the power in Christ\'s experience of suffering with the subjugated peoples of the world?  Do we have a social sense of salvation, a historical sense, rather than merely an eschatological, personal sense?  In other words, I\'m saying we can\'t only speak of atonement as something in the past.  It must be relived, renewed, and re-waited-for in order for us not to get complacent and downplay the prophetic.  We must preserve the \"not yet\" as much as the \"already.\"  This aspect of advent functions as a kind of theodicy even - maybe not for everyone, but for those whose lives have been robbed from them or overwhelmed by injustice, I think it definitely does.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; en-US; rv:1.9.2.24) Gecko/20111103 Firefox/3.6.24','',0,20),(763,3149,'wayne rumsby','wayne@rumsby.ca','','99.231.82.159','2011-12-17 09:50:46','2011-12-17 17:50:46','Beautiful, honest and vulnerable. \r\n\r\nI think of forgiveness as a place, and I must choose to go there. I must leave the conflict and go to that place. I must put down my weapon and climb that hill. I\'ve done that many times more than necessary, simply because I keep returning to the conflict. I\'ve learned that it takes more than one trip up that hill to be ready for redemption. I think of redemption as a time rather than a place. I go to forgiveness and wait there for redemption.\r\n\r\nI\'m puzzled over your closing question though, is there a word missing?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,0),(771,3149,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.31.90.110','2011-12-20 10:05:41','2011-12-20 18:05:41','It\'s kind of sad to me that for some, the meaning of Christianity is based on how good it can get, when Jesus led his followers to the cross.  Pain and suffering is an intimate part of what it means to follow.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',770,1),(765,3149,'A.j','melofutbol@hotmail.com','','96.254.62.89','2011-12-18 06:27:09','2011-12-18 14:27:09','wow Christian thank for this open and honest post.\r\n\r\nYou\'ve made me ask the question(perhaps,again): What role does Redemption play in Forgiveness?\r\n\r\nMy immediate thought is that things are always in a process of being redeemed and little steps of forgiveness through understanding help the wounds to heal, mend and be redeemed?\r\n\r\nI\'d love to read some of your further thoughts.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_7; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.21.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.5 Safari/533.21.1','',0,0),(766,3149,'Christian Salafia','christian@homebrewedtheology.com','http://homebrewedtheology.com','174.26.234.56','2011-12-18 19:27:12','2011-12-19 03:27:12','Hi Wayne, thanks for taking the time to comment.\n\nI like the way you think of forgiveness as a place you must go over and over, putting your weapons down to make the trip.  That\'s pretty cool.\n\nNo, there isn\'t a word missing.  The question was a challenge to think of how we sometimes hold someone else\'s chance for redemption hostage because we cannot forgive them.  Although forgiveness is more for the forgiver than the forgiven, it plays a role in another\'s redemption.  Think of it this way, someone who has hurt us wants to \'make it up\' to us, to redeem themselves, and if there\'s no forgiveness, we hold them hostage, binding them on earth, and they may think \"why bother\" and not pursue redemption.  That\'s was the challenge, and is my challenge to this day with my ex-wife.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',763,47),(767,3149,'Christian Salafia','christian@homebrewedtheology.com','http://homebrewedtheology.com','174.26.234.56','2011-12-18 19:39:37','2011-12-19 03:39:37','Thanks AJ,\n\nI think they\'re all interconnected, redemption, forgiveness, and even confession and repentance, yet they\'re not dependent on each other.  They all play together, like instruments in a symphony.\n\nI think, and I\'m taking a stab in the dark here, that redemption doesn\'t play as much in our forgiving someone as much as it may play in them forgiving themselves.  Our forgiving them, even just a little, can show them that redemption and grace are possible, and sometimes that little spark of hope is all that stands between life and death and can set them on the path towards forgiving themselves.\n\nI believe, and sometimes learning this lesson is more difficult than I like, that, like you, redemption is more in the process, the path, than in the destination.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',765,47),(768,3149,'wayne rumsby','wayne@rumsby.ca','','99.231.82.159','2011-12-18 20:22:14','2011-12-19 04:22:14','Ah, now that I read the closing question again it makes total sense. Perhaps what is missing is an emphatic pause, a simple coma after we. I was reading it like a question that seemed to be asking, Who are we holding redemption for? Details.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.52.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.2 Safari/534.52.7','',0,0),(769,3149,'Debra avery','Pastor@palocristipres.org','','68.3.69.250','2011-12-19 08:47:07','2011-12-19 16:47:07','Thanks for being willing to look at redemption in an up close and personal way.  You are so right. At a great distance, redemption is a wonderful thing. When it is possible for those who hurt us (and it is), the journey through grief,  forgiveness, acceptance, and the frightening awareness that we risk more pain when we allow ourselves to be vulnerable requires a great deal of courage and tenacity.  I look forward to seeing how you journey through this redeeming moment.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8L1','',0,0),(770,3149,'Christian Salafia','christian@homebrewedtheology.com','http://homebrewedtheology.com','65.114.230.33','2011-12-19 09:24:33','2011-12-19 17:24:33','Thanks Deb.\n\nI think that\'s the thing.  It\'s easy to talk Jesus, but walking Jesus can really suck sometimes.  It\'s not all rainbows and unicorns, but often entails struggles, pain, and loss.  But perhaps that\'s the point of the incarnation.  Jesus endured everything the world could throw at him, and he remained grace-filled and forgiving to the end.  Perhaps there\'s a lesson in there somewhere. :-)\n\nIt will be interesting to travel this road.  The girls are dealing with the emotional uproar that usually accompanies a major upheaval like this.  I fully expected it, but that hasn\'t made it any easier.  Hally is having a more difficult time because the one time she\'s visited, she didn\'t say what she wanted to and now she\'s dealing with regret.  She\'s beating herself up over not speaking up, and it\'s hard, as a parent, to see her going through that.  Ashlyn bought her mom a present for Christmas because she felt bad about her Mom not having any, so they\'ll get a chance to visit this week.  It\'ll be interesting to see what Hally does with a second opportunity.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/13.0.782.112 Safari/535.1','',769,47),(772,3249,'Ray Carroll','rayrayc17@live.com','http://www.fallenpastor.com','98.93.22.207','2011-12-20 10:10:27','2011-12-20 18:10:27','My problem isn\'t with Tebow, it\'s with some of the Christian population\'s  overly high expectations of him. I don\'t think he\'s in it for the same reasons they think he is.\r\n\r\nThat being said, I heard an interview with Kurt Warner, former QB of the St. Louis Rams the other day. He said something along the lines of, \"Faith isn\'t a jersey you can just take off.\" I really liked that.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,12),(773,3249,'Mike H.','hornmike@sbcglobal.net','','204.14.163.89','2011-12-20 10:34:14','2011-12-20 18:34:14','I love your last sentence the best. As an evangelical-emergent-postmodern-progressive, we need to move off old paradigms that are built around what separates us and \"make room\" for each other. Tim Tebow, Kurt Warner, and Aaron Rogers all have a personal faith in God but each expresses it differently. I love the diversity!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X; en_US) AppleWebKit (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile [FBAN/FBForIPhone;FBAV/4.0.3;FBBV/4030.0;FBDV/iPhone3,1;FBMD/iPhone;FBSN/iPhone OS;FBSV/5.0.1;FBSS/2; FBCR/AT&T;FBID/phone;FBLC/en_US;FBSF/2.0]','',0,0),(774,3149,'Christian Salafia','christian@homebrewedtheology.com','http://homebrewedtheology.com','65.114.230.33','2011-12-20 10:36:59','2011-12-20 18:36:59','I couldn\'t agree more.  Some of the greatest growth in my faith has come from moments/periods of immense pain and suffering.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/13.0.782.112 Safari/535.1','',771,47),(775,3165,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-12-20 10:43:32','2011-12-20 18:43:32','Michael, thank you SO MUCH for both your observations and your detailed study of Scripture.  Jesus found his true believers at parties with whores, low-class blue-collar fisherman, and hated society-rejects like tax collectors.  Why?  Because they already knew they were screwed up, admitted they were needy and sick, and wanted desperately to experience the finest brew in life.  \r\n\r\nI think it didn\'t matter to them if it was through wine (a temporary fix), society, God\'s acceptance, or whatever made them feel their life mattered.  Just like me, what made the difference was this radically out-of-the-box man who told them God wanted them just as they were, and promised to lead them into positive places they couldn\'t achieve by themselves.\r\n\r\nI\'m gratified you reconize this, celebrate this, and publically own this as the reason the true God bothered to come here as a mere mortal and let us know that not only is the God who created us pleased with us just as we are, but He/She wants to lead us into the growth and healing of abundant life.\r\n\r\nThank you for your article.  Thank you for expressing yourself, no matter what anyone else thinks.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',0,35),(776,3023,'Marni Arnold','marni@relevantbrokenness.com','http://RelevantBrokenness.com','98.24.78.34','2011-12-20 11:14:29','2011-12-20 19:14:29','Hi Alise!\r\n\r\nThis is a great write up...I do have to state that I admire your writing. I have since we have connected. However, there is a divide between us on this issue. I once held, within myself for many years, a condoning of same sex marriage - until I really started to see what God had to say about it through His Word. And considering such, I now find myself not able to condone this lifestyle in my heart.\r\n\r\nBoiled down...no matter how anyone tries to breakdown scripture to make it sound all inclusive...homosexuality is a sin. It\'s no greater a sin than any other laid out in scripture, but nevertheless is it still a sin. And considering this, my heart can\'t find it\'s way to condone it...therefore, I cannot condone marriage between two people of the same sex.\r\n\r\nWhile I love and respect everyone, I can\'t condone or tolerate lifestyles that are outwardly sinful. And when asked on a ballot if I support it or not, I will make my mark in a lack of support because I know how God feels about this lifestyle - and I can\'t turn my heart away from God on a heart issue I know he outwardly opposes Himself. This battle can\'t truly be fought in a courtroom or government body (based on the votes of the majority of the citizens who cast their votes), it can only be fought at the feet of God by approaching His throne on our knees in prayer for all our sins (homosexuality included)...therefore, leaving what we truly cannot conquer in His hands.\r\n\r\nUntil the day comes when the truth is revealed for all of us to see with our own eyes, beyond the written word we are given today, I will love others and respect their choice to do as they will, but you better believe I am placing [even my own opinions] in His hands and praying for a change of heart for all mankind concerning the nature of sin and how it can only be fought on the battlefield of His grace.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,82),(777,3165,'Michael Camp','michaelwcamp@comcast.net','','67.137.36.178','2011-12-20 12:13:13','2011-12-20 20:13:13','Joy, you\'re very welcome and thanks for your kind comments. Christ\'s \"come just as you are\" invitation gets lost because the church slowly transforms it into \"stay with us but make sure you abide by our codes of conduct and doctrine.\"',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(778,3249,'Travis Mamone','travismamone83@gmail.com','http://www.travismamone.net','69.2.182.113','2011-12-20 15:33:24','2011-12-20 23:33:24','I\'m a Tebow fan, too, and it\'s great that he\'s a brother in Christ.  What I have an issue with is when American Christians use Tebow as an apologetic tool.  I like to think that the God of the Universe has a lot more on His mind than American football.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,46),(779,3165,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-12-20 16:44:33','2011-12-21 00:44:33','Unfortunately, there are too many churches whose policy is \"don\'t even bother attending unless you abide by our codes of conduct and doctrine.  Be like us, or don\'t enter, or at least hide behind a false facade.\"  I\'m a preacher\'s kid and grew up in a few churches like that.  At the time, I didn\'t know any better and thought that was \"normal and right\".  When churches started excluding me as a young adult, I came to understand how Country Club and unlike Jesus that viewpoint is.\r\n\r\nMakes me think of how Paul chewed out Peter for such discrimination.  Some of the early churches were very judgmental about who could be considered a Christian.  The same issue is still going on today.  But thanks be to God for Jesus-followers who welcome \"whosoever will\" because such grace was extended to them.  I\'m a Christian today because of a life-changing encounter with God through a personal relationship, not religion.  My heart\'s desire is to help some other wanderers find their way home to such an amazing God.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',777,35),(780,2624,'Marni Arnold','marni@relevantbrokenness.com','http://RelevantBrokenness.com','98.24.78.34','2011-12-21 05:49:58','2011-12-21 13:49:58','Ken,  while what you state is truth...the truth of it still is He was also still very human. This is the very reason it is nearly incomprehensible for the human mind to embrace a complete understanding of how He can be both God and human. But the truth is...directly revealed in scripture...He was indeed both. Therefore, while still God, Christ was born into a Jewish family, raised on Jewish traditions and He honored  them. It isn\'t distinctly worded in scripture, but looking underneath the layers of Christ\'s actions...it\'s evident His embrace of the Jewish life into His human side was multi-fold. But mainly it was to honor the covenant that God made with Abraham, Issac and Jacob...and to have Him relate to humans so they knew God desired relationship with them. There is always reason for why God does what He does...and He will always reveal His ways in scripture...maybe not word for word, but it will be revealed in what He teaches, how He teaches and how He related to His children while walking this earth.\r\n\r\nSo Jonathan definitely speaks of truth when he states what he does concerning Jesus being highly informed by Judaism. It is all encompassing concerning the God-Man...Christ.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',741,82),(781,3239,'Michael Levitt','levitt.mike@gmail.com','http://levittmike.com','38.99.140.226','2011-12-21 10:17:10','2011-12-21 18:17:10','Beautiful post.  Have a blessed Christmas!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/15.0.874.121 Safari/535.2','',0,0),(782,3245,'Debby Engelbert','tazfan1822@yahoo.com','','68.170.231.69','2011-12-22 12:28:35','2011-12-22 20:28:35','Nice writing Joy.  Enjoyed it.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; MAEM; .NET4.0C)','',0,0),(783,3249,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.31.90.110','2011-12-22 15:45:57','2011-12-22 23:45:57','What do you think Warner meant by that comment?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',772,1),(784,3249,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.31.90.110','2011-12-22 15:47:38','2011-12-22 23:47:38','Unfortunately i think we make sense of our own reality by separation.  It\'s easy to want to clarify what is not, rather than what is.  But love calls us to engage rather than push away.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',773,1),(785,3249,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.31.90.110','2011-12-22 15:48:37','2011-12-22 23:48:37','Do you think we\'d be talking about him if he didn\'t wear his faith on his sleeve?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',778,1),(786,2508,'Laura','thirsty40@gmail.com','http://bodytheologyblog.wordpress.com','68.6.89.186','2011-12-22 16:11:11','2011-12-23 00:11:11','I love your last line and hope with you that one day this will no longer be an issue that divides us as the body of Christ.  Thank you for having the courage to speak out.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(787,3245,'Judy Day','judykday@comcast.net','','75.64.57.153','2011-12-22 17:24:50','2011-12-23 01:24:50','Joy, this is all so true. I just read an article this morning that Generation E people are adults that still rely on their parents because they were never allowed to fail.  One of the hardest things I ever did was made my daughter leave our home when she wasn\'t following simple rules of the house.  She did actually live in her car at one time. Once she decided to get her life together (about the age of 30), it\'s been all uphill! She graduated number 1 in her dental hygiene class. She and I are best friends today and she says it\'s because I didn\'t rescue her every time she got in trouble.  She still is not a Jesus follower, but all I can do is lead by example.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(788,3245,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-12-22 19:26:57','2011-12-23 03:26:57','I really appreciate your comment, Judy.  I\'m a Baby Boomer, and I had kids in Junior High before my parents finally stopped rescuing me.  Forstalling the pain of learning to take care of yourself and be responsible as an adult doesn\'t make the process any easier when the time actually comes.  I\'m trusting God to take good care of my son, no matter how that looks.  We\'ve helped him at times in the past, but told him last week that he\'s on his own now.  Now I get to practice a lot of Uncensored Prayer!',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',787,35),(789,3245,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-12-22 19:27:46','2011-12-23 03:27:46','Thank you, Debby.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',782,35),(794,3225,'A.j','melofutbol@hotmail.com','','67.205.197.85','2011-12-26 09:41:09','2011-12-26 17:41:09','Because you didn\'t close your letter with a name I\'ll assume your name is ironically, Joy.\r\nAs someone who has struggled with depression or sometimes a lack of happiness, perhaps, you\'d allow me to share my \'answers\' so far? Perhaps, the \'how\' could be something as simple as identifying meaning behind your word choice and/or a transition in vocabulary (it works for me sometimes)? I\'ve found doubt or unknowing a necessary ingredient of any journey i\'m willing to fully experience. I\'ve found doubt or mystery essential and inherent in a life of following God. I\'ve found there is a slight but important difference between Doubt and Fear. I\'ve found Faith less about Knowing or having Answers and more about Trusting and discovering Beauty. I\'ve found when I used the word Doubt when I really mean Fear i\'m not Trusting and I lose Joy. \r\n     _Sincerely,\r\n                   A.j\r\n\r\np.s. I look forward to hearing your further thoughts.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_7; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.21.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.5 Safari/533.21.1','',0,0),(791,3323,'Daisy Rain Martin','daisydaisychick@yahoo.com','','184.76.102.2','2011-12-24 07:12:53','2011-12-24 15:12:53','Thank you, Cody, for putting into words all the sentiments that I seem to stumble through every day of the year. &lt;3 Daisy Rain',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_8) AppleWebKit/534.50.2 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.6 Safari/533.22.3','',0,0),(792,3323,'Cody Stauffer','staucody72@gmail.com','http://wearebecoming.org','71.220.129.249','2011-12-24 09:47:03','2011-12-24 17:47:03','Daisy, I appreciate your comments, but I know you well enough to know you have a great way with your words yourself! Merry Christmas and can you believe it\'s almost 2012?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',0,17),(793,2207,'Michael Loyer','ob1mikey@hotmail.com','','75.156.217.94','2011-12-24 21:52:42','2011-12-25 05:52:42','Though a little late in this discussion, I hope to get a response. I too, had always thought that Jesus was interpreting himself as the Master in this parable. Yet the master\'s principles do not coincide with teachings from the bible that it is by faith not works that we are saved. It its interesting to note that Dave had derived at the interpretations that the key teaching here has something to do with slavery. We should take account that the parable in this teaching is meant to be isolated in its own context. But rather, take it as a series of parables in which Jesus describes the state of the world when he brings upon the kingdom of heaven, which the day of his return. He asks us to be ready for we will not know the day or the hour. And he goes on with how we must always be prepared like the virgins who woke up and trimmed their lamps. The parable of the talents then goes on to describe a master. The key points as Dave describes, is a master who harvests where he has not sown and gathers where he does not scatter seed. This is contradictory to Jesus for he is our shepherd and he is the one that scatters the seeds. The second thing to note about the Parable of the talents is that the master in question required the unfaithful servant to deposit his money with the bankers if here were not to do something with it himself so that the master may collect, at the very least interest, in his talent. Be reminded that a \"talent\" in those times was a calculated sum of money. Correct me if I am wrong, but a talent is 75lbs of silver. In the Old testament, it is said many times that it is unlawful to collect interest/usury upon your brother. Only a wicked man multiplies his wealth by employing servants to expand his kingdom by reaping his servants harvest without having have lifted a finger himself. And it is an even more wicked man for punishing a servant for giving him no return on something he still owns in full. That to me is has the very elements of slavery in which David Henson has touched upon.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_7_2) AppleWebKit/535.11 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/17.0.963.2 Safari/535.11','',370,0),(805,3290,'Frida','tbh2@cornell.edu','','24.59.125.234','2011-12-27 15:39:32','2011-12-27 23:39:32','These analyses always leave me cold because.  .  . guess what?  One can become a liberal democrat without needing a church membership. You can volunteer,  and Occupy,  and be a good person who cares about the poor and favors gay marriage-- without Jesus. \r\n\r\nLots of people say they like what Jesus said, and they like authentic Christians okay. But  maybe they don\'t believe in God, or  don\'t think Jesus is really all that more compelling than the drum circle or the Sunday Times. \r\n\r\nThe liberal church acts like it is all just a big musunderstanding, and if only young people knew how Marcus-Borgy, MoveOn.org-y we were, they\'d love us.  They\'d come back. But maybe they just wouldn\'t hate us so much,  though they wouldn\'t find us all that compelling either. So go ahead and hang the rainbow flags outside your church -- just don\'t think young people are going to come flying in. \r\n\r\nChurches need to face the truth: young people are just not that into us.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; InfoPath.2)','',0,0),(796,3225,'dan mcm','dan.mcmonagle@comcast.net','http://reconcilingviewpoints.wordpress.com/2011/03/10/the-foundation-part-i/','74.100.21.32','2011-12-26 16:05:21','2011-12-27 00:05:21','Hey Joy… Great post. \r\nI’m a ‘doubter’ myself in regards to a number of issues, so I can definitely relate to feeling like an outsider.  Sometimes, I keep the doubts to myself in order to fit in, other times I don’t bother saying anything because I feel I can’t adequately explain my viewpoint. \r\nThe thing that helped me get past some of my doubts, those that I considered the most important to resolve, came about when I read Mere Christianity by CS Lewis.  Reading Lewis taught me two primary things: 1) it was ok to have doubts and questions, to have beliefs that didn’t toe the line with the status quo on every issue, and 2) that the resurrection of Jesus was historically verifiable based on logical evidence (eg, willingness of eyewitnesses to die rather than deny the resurrection – if you link to my blog here, you’ll find my post on that.)  Basically, my belief in the resurrection is my ‘tether’ – no matter how far outside I wander on those doubting tangents (and I still do), I’ve got a lifeline that keeps me attached to the Body as a whole, and I find reassurance in that. \r\nI will do my best to never “scold, rebuke or pound on” anyone for having doubts because, truth be told, I think it’s critical to maintain some level of doubt if we are to keep our faith fresh and vibrant.  If everything is easy, comfortable, with no questions, are we really living by faith, or just accepting the status quo? When we struggle with doubts, when we question our beliefs because they don’t fit in, but we still do our best to follow Jesus, it’s then that I think we are truly walking in faith.  You might think that you are “out there”, Joy, but the truth is you are a woman of great faith, even when it doesn’t feel like it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/5.0)','',0,0),(797,3225,'Lily','rainbowfluff@aol.com','http://leeleegirl4.wordpress.com','71.168.207.194','2011-12-27 06:54:38','2011-12-27 14:54:38','I wish I could tell you the key to getting in, but I do not seem to have it either.  It seems to me, though, that those who struggle and doubt have a more authentic and deeper faith walk because at the end of the day, we still choose Jesus despite all the challenges and obstacles.  I also believe that you will one day find all the answers that you seek.  I just cannot tell you when.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(798,3225,'Travis Mamone','travismamone83@gmail.com','http://www.travismamone.net','64.26.72.143','2011-12-27 06:55:17','2011-12-27 14:55:17','Great article, Joy!  I no longer want in.  Being on the outside of American evangelicalism gives you a much better view of God.  I still hang out with people on the inside, though.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.25) Gecko/20111212 Firefox/3.6.25','',0,46),(799,3225,'Jessica','bohemianbowmans@gmail.com','http://bohemianbowmans.com','67.202.185.10','2011-12-27 07:36:24','2011-12-27 15:36:24','&lt;3',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0','',0,0),(800,3225,'Ray Hollenbach','ray.hollenbach@gmail.com','http://studentsofjesus.com','71.29.189.16','2011-12-27 08:28:08','2011-12-27 16:28:08','Henri Nouwen speculated whether the Lord\'s phrase, \"You of Little Faith\" wasn\'t actually a kind of endearing nickname, more like, \"Oh, You Little-Faiths!\" We\'ve never heard the tone in His voice as he said those words, but I\'ll bet it was playful. How often we miss the plain fact that Jesus was followed not by the certain, but by the hungry. Hunger trumps certainty.\r\n\r\nI suspect we do not need \"directions, a map, the secret word, a key, the keypad code\" or a \"something\" of any kind. We need a Someone to walk with us. Grace to you, and Peace.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(804,3290,'Bob Pearson','bobpear@bendcable.com','','66.220.112.103','2011-12-27 14:24:54','2011-12-27 22:24:54','Asking a community like a church to change its core beliefs is a waste of time. They will not change.  Trying to work within the existing cultural and theological structure is pointless, at least 90% of the time, of course there are exceptions. Most churches that make a wide shift normally just split, thus so many sects of Christianity in the country.\r\nWhat we need are new examples of whole scale change and not just tweeking.  It is time to invest in new experiments in being followers of Christ, not just Sunday gatherings for various styles of worship, but places to feed the hungry, cloth the naked, visit the sick and live/love out the gospel in actions not just in proclamations and doctrine.  Just do Jesus I guess would be a good rallying cry.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:2.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/4.0.1','',0,0),(802,3290,'Joseph Pusateri','joseph.pusateri@gmail.com','','74.142.25.46','2011-12-27 12:03:17','2011-12-27 20:03:17','Right on.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(803,3290,'M. Horn','hornmike@sbcglobal.net','http://millenials','68.125.175.34','2011-12-27 13:03:26','2011-12-27 21:03:26','I think Barna\'s research is quite compelling.  I also believe its \"all of the above\", and not so simplistic as people might imagine.  I think millenials are enigmatic and I\'m pretty confident that, after working with teens, twenty\'s and thirty\'s for the last 3 decades, young people are particularly searching for authentic \"connection\", vertically and horizontally.  I think liberals and conservatives both tend to focus on peripheral/secondary issues.  \"The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing\", and I think the main thing is the longing for deep intimate connection with the Godhead, and to be loved unconditionally by people.   Isaiah 61 also manifests the burning desire in every heart to see people experience freedom on a personal and individual level, as well as the transformation of society that includes social justice issues.  Thanks for stimulating an important conversation.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0.1','',0,0),(806,1760,'Sarah SSM','sarahrandall@hotmail.com','','186.190.1.160','2011-12-27 17:23:07','2011-12-28 01:23:07','This is what I call a real relationship.  And this is a powerful story.  Thank you for sharing it.  I hope you don\'t mind if I link to it on my blog?  I think I\'ll want to come back and reread this later for a reminder, and  I am definitely putting your book on my wish list.',0,'1','Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; Trident/4.0; SLCC2; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; Media Center PC 6.0; HPNTDF; .NET4.0C; BRI/1)','',0,0),(807,3023,'Arbie','arb06@alum.dartmouth.org','','71.62.202.150','2011-12-27 17:54:06','2011-12-28 01:54:06','Please tell me that someone will kindly respond to Marni and wiskers.  I am a former evangelical Christian, now an atheist, but support more progressive/open-minded forms of Christianity.  I would love to hear the Bible\'s explanation for exactly WHY homosexuality is allegedly sinful.  After all, if God exists and the Bible is his word, and science and logic and regard for fellow human beings do not contradict these facts, then one would think there would be a good explanation for why two consenting adults who mutually love and commit themselves to one another is sinful.  I\'m sorry, but there just aren\'t any explanations that cut it.  \r\n\r\nThe question about child-rearing is a slightly different matter, apart from morality, but still an inadequate reason to keep gay and lesbian folks from being able to marry.  People who are attracted to the opposite sex and want to have kids will continue to do so, even if marriage equality is implemented.  Given the high heterosexual divorce rate, and the massive problems with child abuse, poverty, and other problems that strike gay and straight households alike, wouldn\'t you say that the most important thing would be for a child to have two parents, if possible, who can assist one another with raising the child, and teach him/her how to cope, adapt, thrive and succeed in this difficult world?  Gay and lesbian couples often adopt children whose (straight) biological parents are unable or unwilling to raise them to properly.  On whose side is the moral shortcoming in this scenario?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110303 Firefox/3.6.15','',0,0),(808,3023,'Arbie','arb06@alum.dartmouth.org','','71.62.202.150','2011-12-27 17:59:53','2011-12-28 01:59:53','P.S. I also wanted to mention that huge red flags should go up any time someone says they KNOW what God thinks or how he feels about certain things, especially when it comes to making judgments about human behavior.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110303 Firefox/3.6.15','',0,0),(809,1760,'Joy Wilson','joyleewilson@gmail.com','http://joyleewilson.org','65.13.98.197','2011-12-27 18:03:17','2011-12-28 02:03:17','Certainly you can link this to your blog.  I\'m glad you have my book on your wish list.  You can get it on Amazon and also Barnes&amp;Nobles.com.  Thank you for your kind comment.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/5.0)','',806,35),(810,3290,'Patrick Yaeger','patrickometry@gmail.com','http://GayRightsMedia.org','74.128.100.143','2011-12-27 20:05:45','2011-12-28 04:05:45','I\'ve been to many churches in my life. The church I remember most fondly was the First Presbyterian Church (http://www.fpcnyc.org/) in NYC in the late 90\'s. I was a paid chorister there. It was a big beautiful old stone church with a long history and an incredible music program, whose Scottish pastor gave inspiring intelligent sermons advocating for the poor and outcast. I was in my twenties and fully welcomed there. First Church in New York was a revelation to me for I had been to various churches in my teens (the 80\'s) here in Kentucky but recoiled at the hateful ignorant lies being spread by these churches about gay people like me and the dumb pseudo-religious arguments being passed around by these churches about basic fundamental rock solid facts of science, like evolution - the basis of modern biology. My intelligence was insulted as was my sense of fairness and what was moral and right. I think something like that is happening now for more and more young people, generally.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',0,0),(811,3290,'Weny McCaig','Wendy@embracerichmond.org','http://Www.wendymccaig.com','174.253.85.214','2011-12-29 10:24:18','2011-12-29 18:24:18','As the mother of 3 teens, 18, 16, and 13, I have seen my girls respond to these exact issue. My eldest has rejected the institutional forms of the church because of the hateful treatment of the GLBT community. My middle daughter said she can\'t be a part of anything that would require her to ignore scientific facts like evolution and my youngest is just starting to here and understand the conservative views on homosexuality and can\'t reconcile that with the way we raised her.  As a minister working in the urban context this is exceptionally hard for me to watch.  My kids see me and my husband as anomalies on the fringe of the tradition and I fear they will never give any church a chance.   They are all compassionate and all dedicated to living like Jesus.  I pray for new wine skins for this generation that truly loves like Jesus.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8L1','',0,0),(812,3290,'drdlpenwell','dlpenw01@gmail.com','http://drdlpenwell.wordpress.com','74.134.93.99','2011-12-29 11:24:59','2011-12-29 19:24:59','Thank you all for your thoughtful engagement.  I appreciate your ideas, and I offer my sadness to those who have been witnesses to or recipients of, what I take to be, the church\'s misplaced attention.  There are a range of comments here, so let me respond with some broad observations. \r\n\r\n First, I take Frida\'s critique seriously about the fact that what I\'m proposing could easily be taken for a baptized version of liberal/progressive politics.  It\'s easy to think that the means (partisan politics) are the ends (faithfulness to Jesus).  However, what I\'m suggesting is not that churches become more \"Democratic\" in order to appeal to young people; in fact, just the opposite--churches need to worry about aligning themselves with Jesus, rather than the correct political programs.  If those programs are congruent with the aims of the gospel, using them thoughtfully is defensible.  It\'s a subtle distinction, but on which my argument turns.\r\n\r\nAs to whether doing all the right stuff (Marcus-Borgy, MoveOn.org-y) will \"work\" or not in bringing young people back isn\'t my primary point (some will come back, some won\'t--for a variety of reasons that often don\'t have much to do with the church--which is my sympathetic response to Wendy, since I have a teen going through the same stuff).  My point is that churches should be fundamentally concerned with being faithful--and the rest will take care of itself (or not); but that\'s really God\'s area of responsibility.  Congregations need to act like Jesus not because it\'s successful, but because it\'s right.\r\n\r\nSecond, as to Bob\'s point about the kind of change that is necessary, I\'m inclined to agree that the easiest way to accomplish this is through new manifestations, since congregational transformation is painstaking work.  However, I\'m being primarily descriptive here--which, I think, means that my concern has less to do with  faithfulness gets embodied than with  it gets embodied.  As Bob says, and as i say i the article, tweaking is a distraction.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',0,93),(813,2624,'Taara','taara@portela.com','','201.74.182.234','2011-12-29 14:58:23','2011-12-29 22:58:23','You said this, \"It is the practicing, the living, the embodying of everything good in a faith path that leads one to salvation (imho).\"\r\n\r\nHow can you earn your own salvation?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',637,0),(814,3225,'writingjoy','joy@joyinthisjourney.com','http://www.joyinthisjourney.com','208.102.127.207','2011-12-30 06:23:22','2011-12-30 14:23:22','I like how you introduce the idea of mystery into the dynamic of doubt, AJ. Mystery and beauty and loving the person of Jesus are things I am learning to embrace tightly, whether or not I ever get any answers.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.51.22 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.1 Safari/534.51.22','',794,0),(815,3225,'Joy Bennett','joy@joyinthisjourney.com','http://www.joyinthisjourney.com','208.102.127.207','2011-12-30 06:29:48','2011-12-30 14:29:48','Dan, I too have kept it to  myself or just shut my mouth because putting it into words didn\'t seem to make any sense. \n\nMere Christianity is one of those books I go back to every year or two. I use that same word picture too -- Jesus is my tether or my anchor, and I cling to Him when nothing else makes sense.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.51.22 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.1 Safari/534.51.22','',796,121),(816,3225,'Joy Bennett','joy@joyinthisjourney.com','http://www.joyinthisjourney.com','208.102.127.207','2011-12-30 06:53:55','2011-12-30 14:53:55','Ray, I love the idea that \"little-faith\" is an endearing nickname. Interesting thoughts on hunger vs certainty -- seems like being certain would nullify hunger. And I agree with you -- I no longer think it\'s  a matter of codes or directions, it\'s about Jesus. He\'s who I cling to when the ground is shaky. I\'m learning to let the criticism of the certain roll off my back (though it still stings sometimes).',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.51.22 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.1 Safari/534.51.22','',800,121),(817,3225,'Joy Bennett','joy@joyinthisjourney.com','http://www.joyinthisjourney.com','208.102.127.207','2011-12-30 06:55:05','2011-12-30 14:55:05','I think I\'m standing in the doorway at this point, pondering the possibility of walking out.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.51.22 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.1 Safari/534.51.22','',798,121),(818,3225,'Joy Bennett','joy@joyinthisjourney.com','http://www.joyinthisjourney.com','208.102.127.207','2011-12-30 06:56:18','2011-12-30 14:56:18','You know, I\'m growing to believe that it\'s more precious to me to be authentic than to be certain of answers. Jesus doesn\'t require me to have the answers, and I\'m not sure it\'s actually possible anyway.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/534.51.22 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1.1 Safari/534.51.22','',797,121),(819,2980,'Morgan','maguyton@gmail.com','','166.147.117.234','2011-12-30 08:20:17','2011-12-30 16:20:17','How about this? The cross is God making Himself vulnerable before us so we can be vulnerable before Him and each other. I think the source of all sin is self-justification. It\'s the epistemological (?) prison that we have to escape. Needing to be right about everything is what living in hell is. We escape it by stepping into the vulnerability of taking up our crosses to follow the Vulnerable One.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8J2','',0,0),(820,2980,'Jonathan Brink','jb@thriven.org','http://jonathanbrink.com','75.5.247.249','2011-12-30 08:29:22','2011-12-30 16:29:22','Morgan, I share the epistemological prison idea, one that we have created.  And I like the vulnerability idea.  But I think it comes down to a single question.  Are we good or evil? Everything else is an extension of this one question, found in the tree of knowledge.  Why did God declare us good, when we are so capable of evil?  And the cross shows us that God thought we were worth it.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.5; rv:9.0.1) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/9.0.1','',819,1),(821,3290,'Cam','csobalvarro@gmail.com','http://blog.realfaitharts.com','71.146.132.171','2011-12-30 09:03:35','2011-12-30 17:03:35','Hearily agree with the spirit of this. Well said. Reminds me of anothers statement I read, not sure who to attribute it to, \"whenever religion and politics mix, it\'s religion that looses.\"  I believe that\'s proven true here in the USA.  It kills me that the response of many in the mainstream evangelical church seems to be to either deny the problem, or blame it on the culture. I don\'t feel it\'s ever helpful to blame culture, because culture simply \"is.\" Accept it, learn to operate within it, seek to influence it, even confront it in pursuit of radical reformation, but don\'t blame it. I\'m not suggesting culture is always right, but to make it the scapegoat for your problems is simply not helpful.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; U; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X; en_US) AppleWebKit (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile [FBAN/FBForIPhone;FBAV/4.1;FBBV/4100.0;FBDV/iPad2,1;FBMD/iPad;FBSN/iPhone OS;FBSV/5.0.1;FBSS/1; FBCR/;FBID/tablet;FBLC/en_US;FBSF/1.0]','',0,0),(822,3290,'drdlpenwell','dlpenw01@gmail.com','http://drdlpenwell.wordpress.com','74.134.93.99','2011-12-30 09:15:08','2011-12-30 17:15:08','Your instinct to resist blaming culture <em>per se</em>, as you might guess, seems right to me.  Culture is too complex to \"blame.\"  Blaming or defending culture seems to me to be the equivalent of blaming the air for holding the pollution people pump into it or defending the make up of air for having the right constituents to support human life.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_8) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',821,93),(823,3225,'Cam','csobalvarro@gmail.com','http://blog.realfaitharts.com','71.146.132.171','2011-12-30 09:25:28','2011-12-30 17:25:28','What a heartfelt and helpful piece. Thanks for expressing this so personally. I am one who, for no reason I feel I can take any credit for, has never really struggled with doubt, but I find myself surrounded by those who do. It\'s not that I always believed, I didn\'t come to faith until adulthood. But my unbelief came from lack of knowledge. When I heard the Gospel, I responded. I still had little knowledge, but rather than \"doubt\" I felt \"uniformed.\" If anything, I doubted myself. While I\'m grateful for my lack of doubt (because I don\'t know if I could handle it personally), I\'m also grateful for the doubters in my life. They spur me on. They also keep my humble for all the times I just don\'t have adequate answers. I am guilty of at times feeling like it\'s \"their fault\" for \"holding-on\" to doubt, and perhaps even \"cherishing it.\" So thank you for helping me see that. \r\nYet I do feel that there are subcultures in the the church where doubt it to some degree given honor it doesn\'t deserve, where those of us who don\'t struggle with it almost feel like we\'re being less than honest. To express doubt can sometimes be a used as a way of inflating ones own intellectualism. I also don\'t feel that\'s helpful, and at that point it\'s probably not even honest. I don\'t feel doubt is anything to be proud of. I ALSO don\'t think FAITH is anything to be proud of though.  Both are part of the experience of seeking and knowing God. In fact, I think a healthy community has both.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (iPad; CPU OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3','',0,0),(824,3023,'Marni Arnold','marni@relevantbrokenness.com','http://RelevantBrokenness.com','98.24.78.34','2011-12-30 19:19:47','2011-12-31 03:19:47','Arbie,\r\n\r\nI have but one sincere question for you...and please deeply study this question (and study the scriptures). Does God commend anywhere in scripture the man+man, or woman+woman relationship, in a sexually intimate manner...or does He condemn it?',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',807,82),(825,3023,'AliseWrite','alise.d.wright@gmail.com','http://www.alise-write.com','76.92.77.220','2011-12-30 19:52:00','2011-12-31 03:52:00','I would suggest that it is simply not addressed. Reading through the Scriptures, it appears to me that the same sex sexual relationships that are condemned are those that are of an idolatrous nature (sex with prostitutes as a form of worship of false gods).\r\n\r\nComparing that to a loving, monogamous relationship between two people of the same sex simply makes no sense.\r\n\r\nRegardless, even if one finds that it is sinful, I cannot understand how that plays into extending the legal rights to committed same sex partners that are extended to non-Christian heterosexual couples. We recognize that marriage benefits should be an option to people regardless of their faith. So while you SAY that all sins are the same, this one is clearly worse because you suggest that there should be legal ramifications accompanying this one that do not apply to other sinful couples.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',824,30),(826,3023,'Arbie','arb06@alum.dartmouth.org','','71.62.202.150','2011-12-30 22:37:38','2011-12-31 06:37:38','Excellent response, Alise.  In ancient Greek, no word existed in their vocabulary that referred to our modern concept of \"homosexuality.\"  There are very few verses in the bible that even remotely try to speak to same-sex matters, and I would agree with Alise that what the biblical authors decried was, more precisely, sexual immorality--being sexually loose or, as Alise puts it, idolatrous, with whomever/whatever crosses one\'s path.  The Bible has lots more to say about \"sinful\" situations between men and women, ranging from lust to adultery to divorce, etc. (but no one today is seriously trying to criminalize these \"sins\").  Ancient cultures hadn\'t yet formed the concept of two consenting adults of the same sex who mutually loved and committed themselves to one another as married couples do today.\r\n\r\nBut like I said, I am an atheist (after having spent many years as a very sincere and well-meaning Christian).   I understand that I have strayed onto Christian turf by finding and commenting on this site, but if you could humor me for a moment: the fact of the matter is that appealing to the authority of the Bible means nothing to me, or to other people who view it as a collection of books written and compiled by fallible men.  If you really want to pull out a small, isolated handful of verses as support for labeling same-sex relationships as sinful, and you want the law to enforce those views on the rest of society, you will have to reach out further to find some kind of extra-biblical common ground with people who don\'t view the Bible as an authoritative voice on matters of public policy and 21st century concerns.\r\n\r\nI appreciate Alise\'s reply, because at least as a Christian, maybe her voice will carry beyond the reach of mine to engage her fellow believers in discussions like this.  As an outsider, my perspective is usually dismissed outright, with the rationale that I have been blinded by Satan and the lure of secular society.  But I think there is room for Christians to approach their own book of scripture with a more careful and critical eye, and come away with a deeper understanding that differs from traditional interpretations of the same text.  With the \"culture wars\" raging, I do think that many people simply see what they want to see (or what others have told them is there) when reading between the lines printed in the Bible.  Please, Christians who are more receptive to marriage equality and similar values:  please let your voices be heard, please keep engaging with your own communities to help move us all beyond injustice and backwards thinking.  As a non-believing outsider, I fear that my hands are tied.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/535.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/16.0.912.63 Safari/535.7','',825,0),(827,3225,'Doyle','dylcsw@comcast.net','','76.18.183.215','2011-12-31 18:43:51','2012-01-01 02:43:51','Hi Joy.  A friend posted your entry on his blog and so I found my way here.  I heard a quote from an unknown author which said:  We start our Spiritual journey with DOUBT in our faith, but as we mature, we develop FAITH in our doubt.  I like that.',0,'1','Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE 9.0; Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; Trident/5.0; BOIE9;ENUSSEM)','',0,0),