(747,'wayne@rumsby.ca',1356,1330008799,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi wayne rumsby\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI don\'t think this is just about parenting. I think it\'s really about our western culture and the justified use of force/violence to solve problems. This man is steeped in the gun culture, just look at his other u-tube videos.'),(748,'jeremylovesjesus@gmail.com',1357,1330036201,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jeremy Stephens\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI think you\'re absolutely right. And I think a good laugh now and then was probably the best way to handle some of the Pharisees\' more...interesting...responses to His questions.'),(749,'marni@relevantbrokenness.com',1364,1330219704,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Marni Arnold\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nTwo things...\r\n\r\n1) I am right there with you concerning the conservative voice you have. I, too, have found myself amidst a minority here - but alas, as you state in this post, and I fully concur, \"I don’t always agree with my fellow writers here, but I stand by their right to say whatever they want.\" I am absolutely right there with you.\r\n\r\nNow...\r\n\r\n2) I am a HUGE Garth fan...and this is one of my favorite songs. I am so thankful and grateful you focused on the message of this song, because truly that is the full intention of the message itself. Thank you for shedding light on this...thank you! We need it now, more than ever, in our society today - with so many differing voices and viewpoints. We need to be supportive of one another in how we see things, giving one another the grace God gives us all to grow and develop (even in our differences) in the timing He deems proper - not how we judge appropriate.'),(750,'rayrayc17@live.com',1365,1330225575,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nWell said, Marni. Thank you for adding to the article. It\'s a voice and song that rings true today, for sure.'),(751,'ed@inpulsearts.com',1366,1330274910,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ed\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI\'ve been thinking along this same ling all week. There\'s a part of me that\'s always thinkig \"What\'s next?\", or \"I can\'t wait until so-and-so day.\" But then I think \"Hey, don\'t look ahead so much and enjoy today!'),(752,'jb@thriven.org',1368,1330369942,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jonathan Brink\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you Jerry.  Can you share a little about what happened in your case?'),(753,'vdobbelu@yahoo.com',1367,1330369942,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jerry Dobbels\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nWell done! In this world you will have trouble. Why are we as \"Christians\" surprised by that?\r\nI had a similar experience while listening to Led Zeppelin\'s, \"When The Levy Breaks.\" God meets us in the tombs just as He did Lazarus and \"redeems.\"\r\nThank you for revealing a little of your heart.'),(754,'tr@pb-east.com',1369,1330373423,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Tony Roland\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nJonathan,\r\nAs the Lord graciously tears every box I carefully construct to contain Him apart. I am lighter and freer for it. To the heart who seeks the Lord as it\'s only resource, all things in that context is pure. Blessed and happy are the pure in heart for they will see God...................in everything.'),(755,'jb@thriven.org',1371,1330392118,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jonathan Brink\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nJason, I sometimes wonder what life would have been like as a young boy had I not been afraid of all that music.  I remember hearing Back in Black and thinking, \"This is insanely good music.\" No pun intended.'),(756,'vdobbelu@yahoo.com',1372,1330392865,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jerry Dobbels\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nLet me see...The divorce of my son from his wife and children. The divorce \r\nof a man that I was in \"ministry\" with for many years. Dealing with the death of my best man in my wedding. Trying to get a grip on a decision that one of my sons has made about living as a gay man.\r\n\r\nAll of these things (except the one about my son wanting to be gay) happened within a three to four month period of time last year. This all hit me while on the treadmill one day. Right at the time I was listening to \"When The Levee Breaks.\" Right from the beginning of the song where it says, \"If it keeps on rainin\', Levee is gonna to break\r\nIf it keeps on rainin\', Levee is gonna to break\r\nWhen the Levee breaks, I\'ll have no place to stay\r\n\r\nMean old Levee taught me to weep and moan\r\nMean old Levee taught me to weep and moan\r\nIt\'s got what it takes to make a mountain man leave his home\r\nOh, well, oh, well, oh, well.\"\r\n\r\nI lost it. The \"Levee\" was my life, while the rain was the sorrow I was feeling. I wept and moaned a very long time. \r\n\r\nI believe that some kind of infusion took place between my spirit and God\'s Spirit when my \"Levee\" broke. After a year things are still pretty much the same, but I am not the same man that I used to be because of that encounter.'),(757,'jb@thriven.org',1373,1330397733,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jonathan Brink\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI have had that same experience with that song.  Different circumstances but the song was pivotal.'),(758,'vdobbelu@yahoo.com',1374,1330412368,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jerry Dobbels\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nNo father ever wants to hear from his son that his son  wants to be with another man. No matter which way you slice it, Just speaking from personal experience.'),(759,'tr@pb-east.com',1378,1330448371,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Tony Roland\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nHello Ryan,\r\nI too am from a non-denominational  evangelical-charismatic background myself. The Lord has lead me on an interesting path this last year that has opened my eyes in a way that answered so many questions. These questions have been on my mind for years, and I just could not get answers or clarity until I had some distance from church and religion. I got kicked out of a very hip/cool young  non-denominational  evangelical-charismatic church a year ago. They wanted me to get the message that asking questions about what we do or why we do it can be good cause for excommunication.  I was upset at the beginning, and then the Lord began to open my eyes to things I could have never seen Had I continued in ministry at that church (or any church for that matter). Church attendance and submitting to other humans as spiritual authority over our lives, actually interferes with our personal relationship to Christ. This seems to be a universal truth. We are designed for intimacy with Jesus. He is our head, we are to come to Him and learn from Him. If you are interested in dialoging further on this subject, please feel free to email me.\r\nAll the Best!\r\nTony\r\ntr@pb-east.com'),(760,'ryanpeterwrites@gmail.com',1376,1330456764,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ryan Peter\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\n*Most \'Christian\' music still DOES. Sorry, typo!'),(761,'ryanpeterwrites@gmail.com',1375,1330456764,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ryan Peter\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\n\"Metallica’s music represented the darker side of life, one that “Christian” music tended to ignore.\"\r\n\r\nMost \'Christian\' music still doesn\'t. :P\r\n\r\nIt\'s a sad reality, that. Here we are, exploring the depths of God and what it means to live with Him, in Him, as we journey through this life. And the best music we can come up with are some poppy tunes with shallow lyrics.\r\n\r\nI had a strange experience many years ago that could only have been experienced to understand. Nevertheless, it was still a big moment for me. I remember staring out at the sea at night, wondering about the despair of my life at that point (nothing tragic, but I was very lonely at the time) and saw the deep, dark, blackness of each wave as it crashed onto the shore. I had this awkward realisation: God is in the Black too. He is also there, in the deepest dark of our Universe. Something of the mystery of God struck me. He created night. And it was good. He makes all things good. God is just never exactly what we expect Him to be.'),(762,'ryanpeterwrites@gmail.com',1377,1330456764,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ryan Peter\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI\'m a little late to this party, but I thought I would post anyway :)\r\n\r\nFrom the post: “Christianity was the only Religion about Love”. Really? Really? Have you explored any other religions? My personal experience with other, non-Christian religions is they really are about love.\"\r\n\r\nI understand and appreciate your perspective here Bronwen :) But actually I do have to say that the speaker who said this wasn\'t too far off, given this quote (I don\'t know the rest of what he said). It really boils down to how that religion defines love.\r\n\r\nJesus defined love by going to a cross, to show just how much God loves us and how unconditionally He loves us - without the need for us to make atonement. If you look closely at the system of Karma, however, you realise just how short it actually falls in forming a healthy relationship with God or a healthy relationship with ourselves. I can\'t see Karma as anything close to love; it\'s a system, a machine, that we must try and manipulate to find salvation. (I\'m using Western terms for ease of understanding.)\r\n\r\nBecause Karma is all about you, as a person, finding a way to atone for your sins so that you can eventually escape this life and enter Nirvana. We are reborn in many lives so that we may eventually atone for our bad deeds by offsetting it with good deeds. \r\n\r\nJesus makes things different because the relational aspect becomes central - as Romans 3 says, a righteousness has now been revealed as apart from the law. That \'righteousness of God\' is grace, not law, not Karma, no longer Torah, but grace and mercy and peace and love and communion and union and joy and mystery. \r\n\r\nKarma offers no love, only deeds. At its core it offers no grace - you either win or you lose. And you have to work very hard to win.\r\n\r\nSecondly, knowing people who live in Buddhist nations, they have seen some horrific things in the name of \'love\'. Because very often the way we \'atone\' (I use that word simply for ease of understanding) for our bad deeds in the system of Karma is by going through suffering. In other words, the suffering we see in the world is seen as Karma putting things right, and therefore we must go through suffering in this life to have a better life in the next. So, in an orphanage they found the caretakers were abusing the children and claimed that this was done \'in love\' because if they caused these poor orphans to suffer even more in this life, then the orphans would have a better next life.\r\n\r\nYou can understand the logic. But I juxtapose that against Jesus and I see two very different kinds of love operating. I put Jesus next to Karma and I see a very different kind of love operating.\r\n\r\nI know many buddhists would disagree with the way I\'ve outlined this idea above, but that\'s OK. Much like Christians, many Buddhists no doubt have their own way of processing and understanding the teaching. \r\n\r\nI like how CS Lewis worked this topic out. Rather than thinking Christianity as completely and utterly different and exclusive, he calls it a more \'mature\' view. He takes the idea that in every religion there is some truth, but in Christianity all the Truth comes together in a much more mature understanding, because all Truth points to Jesus Christ, the person. This means we needn\'t be unloving towards people of other faiths and we can learn from them, but as long as we don\'t lose sight of Jesus as central and the climax of all journeys towards God. The person of Jesus is salvation, not the system of teaching that goes around Him (Christianity, or Christendom).\r\n\r\nThe way you\'ve interpreted Jesus saying \"I AM the way, truth and life\" I think misses the glorious point of Jesus, the person, being the way, the truth and the life. To relegate it to simply his way of life and teaching is to put oneself back under a religious system rather than a religious (devoted) relationship. Ironically, doing this probably does the very opposite I think you\'re trying to achieve. \r\n\r\nJesus shows us who God is and opens it up for us to commune with this God. Karma, however, does not show us who God is. Karma is a kind of justice system that falls short of God\'s righteousness, which is grace and peace and mercy and sacrificial love. \r\n\r\nI hope I don\'t come across as disrespectful here, but I did feel it would be good to bring these points up. Grace and peace.'),(763,'jb@thriven.org',1379,1330456905,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jonathan Brink\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nRyan, I think when we learn to explore the darker side of life, Christianity will once again be known as a courageous path.'),(764,'vdobbelu@yahoo.com',1380,1330458378,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jerry Dobbels\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nRyan,\r\n\r\nI really like what you wrote, it reminded me of a book I am re-reading called, \"The Lazarus Life.\" \r\nGod is in the deepest, darkest, tombs of our life. A quote from the book, \"A religion that does not embrace the tomb is only a feel-good religion, not an authentic relationship with God.\"\r\n\r\nThanks for sharing'),(765,'clkinnai@samford.edu',1381,1330464048,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Charles Kinnaird\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI haven\'t read Hauerwas, but I am inclined to feel the same way as you have expressed it here. To claim that Christ has already ended war it to deny the horrible military conflicts that are occurring even now. On the other hand, I do think that we are in a day in which we Christians must stop talking about \"just war.\" That whole just war theology was an accommodation to political powers and human failure. Especially in this day of nuclear armament, the church must be a prophetic voice to call for better ways to settle conflicts. The Quakers, Amish, and Mennonites have succeeded in opting out of war, and they bear witness to that vision of peace that Hauerwas seems to appeal to.  For humanity to succeed, we must put war behind us - but we are not there yet. As long as Christians continue to claim that their country is justified in taking up arms, we will not get there.'),(766,'ryanpeterwrites@gmail.com',1382,1330466098,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ryan Peter\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nHi Tony,\r\n\r\nThanks! Appreciate the feedback and the invite to converse further :)\r\n\r\nThere is a sense in which human authority over our spiritual lives is very damaging as each of us ought to work out our own salvation (Phil 2). But we can\'t take it too far, in my opinion, as we should not give up meeting together (Heb 10:25). \r\n\r\nIt\'s not fair on our leaders to make them an authority over our spiritual lives. Leaders themselves who insist that this is how it works are doing themselves a great disservice. So I agree with you on this point: we\'re not meant to submit to human authority in our spiritual lives. \r\n\r\nSpiritual leaders (pastors) are called to lead us through/in friendship and relationship. Their leadership ultimately boils down to taking a church in a direction, not individuals. They are not there to bring guidance to my life, per se, but guidance to my church life of which I am a part voluntarily.\r\n\r\nI choose to get on board as I both trust them and think community is important. Plus, I feel a church community ought to be going somewhere - having a community for the sake of a community very soon becomes problematic. A community with a vision is ultimately what pastors and leaders are there to create (pastoring the flock means leading the flock, together, through something to some where).\r\n\r\nThis would call for a whole blog post on its own, to be honest. It boils down to how authority is both understood and used, I think. On my journey I have come to the realisation that I have a responsibility to afford the same level of grace on my leaders as I would expect for them to have for me. \r\n\r\nI am quite fortunate, however, to be in a church where my leaders are truly my friends (10+ years of relationship). Because of our relationship based on friendship before function (a catch phrase in my church) asking questions is not discouraged in any way, but questions are worked out and within relationships that are placed first. \r\n\r\nIn other words, like a family but not a cult. \r\n\r\nMatters of ecclesiology and church life are difficult and painful and I affirm your points quite wholeheartedly. I feel, however, there is a way where leadership does not get in the way with our relationship to Christ. I need to clarify that my post is a critique of the larger charismatic-evangelical mindset (ie. the literature and sermons etc. that I regularly encounter) not so much my own church. I am tired in many ways of being a charismatic, as I said, but even so I am able to continue to be a part of my local church because of my friendships and I believe where the church is going is good and right.\r\n\r\nThanks again for the opportunity to dialogue with you and the great points you\'ve raised! :)'),(767,'Thechurchofnopeople@gmail.com',1383,1330532309,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Matt @ The Church of No People\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nGreat post, man!  Dead on. I think everyone is religious, we just don\'t like the word but we are creatures of habit and ritual, and we are all looking for something significant to connect to - that\'s religion!  So even \"non-religious\" people have their own religion.'),(768,'rodmydancat@hotmail.com',1384,1330535213,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Rod Fry\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThere\'s a poignant scene in the Passion of the Christ movie when Jesus is carrying his cross to Calvary, and his mother Mary comes near to him as he stumbles under the weight of the Christ.  His words to her through his own blood are wonderful.  \"See mother, I make all things new.\"  The gospel is something so encompassing and extraordinary that it cannot but change a soul and a society, it makes us new, and God through us restores and illuminates.  \r\n\r\nThe concepts \"make a difference\" and \"change the world\"  have been and continue to be extremely motivational for me, because I have seen the very practical results of my obedience in the lives of others.  People have come closer to God on several streets in the Mexico City metro area because I left home and decided to live there.  I hope that doesn\'t sound arrogant...it\'s just reality.  \r\n\r\nNevertheless, I do believe that if wanting to have an impact in the world is my primary motivation, well, I probably won\'t have much success.  A joyful, vibrant relationship with my Creator and Redeemer is what keeps the drum beating inside, is what keeps the fire bright.  \r\n\r\nSo I think both aspects are valid, but the order is important.  First internal, then external.  First joy and passion, then decisions and action.'),(769,'kglethean@gmail.com',1385,1330538509,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Kevin Gonzaga\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nTravis,\r\n\r\nThanks for sharing your thoughts on this article.  I had a friend once ask me how I felt about someone calling the Holy Spirit or God \"Mother\" and this led into a lengthy discussion about gender in the Bible. (I wrote about some of it here: http://wp.me/pVYH7-9R)\r\n\r\nI really cringe that certain elements within Christianity attempt to reinforce patriarchy and benevolent sexism by talking about a \"masculine feel\" to Christianity but try to see them with as much grace as possible and know they do so with the best of intentions even if it results in the worst of consequences.  They take the patriarchal slant within the scriptures (which is overwhelming despite the verses you have brought up) as prescriptive for all time rather than descriptive of the ancient context.\r\n\r\nOverall this is an area of our faith that I think we need to talk about more and thanks again for sharing your thoughts on it.'),(770,'aleikenberry@yahoo.com',1386,1330539931,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Austin\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nYes, I agree wholeheartedly.\r\n\r\nI grew up in the Church of the Brethren, which is an anabaptist denomination (One of the historic peace churches in America). Was baptized while in college at a Lutheran school (which was in a Lutheran church), studied Catholic theology a bit while I was in school, spent 7+ years in leadership in an neopentecostal 5-fold ministry setting, and now am a member of a Baptist church and attending a Southern Baptist Seminary. Yes, there\'s a whole lot of difference in practice, and some significant differences in theology. Yes, they\'re all still Christian. Yes, they all represent ways that people have found to make a connection with God. Liturgy isn\'t less appropriate than praise bands - you may have a theological conviction about preaching having precedence over music, but 20 minutes of preaching is still 20 minutes of preaching, regardless of whether you call it a sermon or a homily or just preaching.'),(771,'ryanpeterwrites@gmail.com',1388,1330585869,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ryan Peter\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nYeah, that\'s quite true!'),(772,'ryanpeterwrites@gmail.com',1389,1330585934,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ryan Peter\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nGreat history!'),(773,'ryanpeterwrites@gmail.com',1390,1330585997,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ryan Peter\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks man :)\r\n\r\n\"On the other hand, there IS such a thing as being so open minded that your brains leak out through your ears.\" - hahaha, awesome quote! Definitely going to remember that one in the future!'),(774,'kristenrosser@hotmail.com',1391,1330632547,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Kristen\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you for this.  To me, the real questions are these:  Are we going to let God call women?  Or are we going to tell God He can\'t?  And are we going to let women whom He calls obey?  Or are we going to insist they obey a tradition-enmired interpretation of 2 or 3 verses of Scripture which, frankly, amount to tithing mint, dill and cumin while ignoring justice and mercy?'),(775,'raeleneroth@yahoo.com',1392,1330661808,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Raelene\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nAfter reading the comments, I recognize I am definitely experiencing something far different that a good-size sample of other women who attend church.  I admit, I do not go every Sunday, but it is the most awesome experience every time I go, and I walk through those doors with the objective to get into a peacful space in my mind, body and soul, and simply thank God, and reflect on the past and how far He has led/loved me--through some of the most hell-on-earth experiences.  And I\'m so fully satisfied with just that.  After reading what it\'s *really* like behind-the-scene, I\'m shocked.  I\'m glad I\'ve never noticed a lack of female voice.  When I go, I am so distracted by the peace/release I feel inside, and how humble I can become in that space, I have truly never noticed that women do not have a voice.  I\'m not sure if that is a good thing, or not, but that\'s the reality of my experience.\r\n\r\nYou are an excellent writer, by the way.  I appreciate your transparency.'),(776,'martyreimer78@yahoo.com',1393,1330853097,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Marty Reimer\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nhi there --\r\n\r\ni think you\'d really enjoy the book \"streams of living water\" by richard foster.  he talks about the christian church in history and the riches to mined from the different denominations\' history, theology and style, for the enrichment of all of us, rather than shooting at each other.  i\'ve been feasting on this for a while now.\r\n\r\nhttp://store.renovare.us/p-3-streams-of-living-water-softcover.aspx\r\n\r\nthis is a US website, but i\'d be willing to bet there\'s a version of it where you are...\r\ncheers!'),(777,'melhhanson@yahoo.com',1394,1331126742,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Melody Harrison Hanson\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nRaelene:  Thank you for talking about your experience in the church and for how you are growing spiritually - which is important and crucial.  \n\nThere are many, varied experiences for women to be sure and they are not all bad.  Mine, while being at time limiting and frustrating is not \"bad\" either but there are many ways in which women are limited from fully utilizing their gifts and talents in strict denominations where women cannot teach, or lead or spiritually guide.  The Church is coming along.  \n\nYou and others that read this review might be interested in reading a few other books. Rachel Held Evans is coming out with a book A year of Biblical Womanhood (and has a popular <a href=\"http://rachelheldevans.com/\" title=\"RHE\" rel=\"nofollow\">blog</a>) and another good one which I haven\'t finished is Unladylike by Pam Hodgeweed who also has a <a href=\"http://godmessedmeup.blogspot.com/\" title=\"PH\" rel=\"nofollow\">blog</a>. Of course the best organization to help you grow in your biblical understanding of these issues is Christians for Biblical Equality where you will find a plethora of incredible resources.'),(778,'levitt.mike@gmail.com',1395,1331138945,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Michael Levitt\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nSociety likes to lift people up, and kick them when they\'re down.  \r\n\r\nWe all have planks in our eyes.  We\'re all here to help us and support  each other, not beat up others.'),(779,'tr@pb-east.com',1396,1331142283,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Tony Roland\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nOh the depths of  the love of God, it is past comprehension. Jesus paid it all, and dealt the death blow once and for all for all sin for all time, that we might be free to know and serve God in a new and living way by the Spirit.'),(780,'rayrayc17@live.com',1397,1331258605,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nMichael &amp; Tony, you both are dead on. Thanks for the comments.'),(781,'harp.bruce@yahoo.com',1398,1331269291,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Bruce H.\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nMight I say that the fallen have experienced something no other has. Forgiveness from God. In addition to that, we are a living testimony to the rest of the believers to allow them to learn to forgive. Yes, I believe that will be our living teaching. No one can learn from teaching better than experience. We must take the blunt of the response and give the example of what it means to forgive. If we cannot forgive we cannot be forgiven. Let us never think it is okay to allow other Christians to put us down or condemn us. Living like Christ did, as having no father, is our destiny no matter what the world thinks. Our testimony has to be able to teach others the principle of forgiveness and, also. living among the forgiven.'),(782,'stephenhaggerty@gmail.com',1399,1331360185,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Stephen Haggerty\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nIt\'s interesting how an older school of thought saw music divided into two camps: that which is Christian, and hence was approved and created by God, and that which is secular, and hence condemned by God as a creation of Satan.\r\n\r\nMore often today we\'re seeing Christians discern beyond this false dichotomy and realize that God is the author of creativity, and speaks truth into humanity through means that go beyond just praise and worship music.  Though many Believers of yesterdays past would turn in their grave if they heard you say God spoke to you through Lars Ulrich'),(783,'stephenhaggerty@gmail.com',1400,1331360404,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Stephen Haggerty\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\n... in a way that Bill Gather couldn\'t have, I for one am glad to be seeing the shift! Here\'s to celebrating creativity and a high standard for creating good art! :)'),(784,'ottovon@online.no',1401,1331386224,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Otto von Münchow\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks for telling the very personal experience of what is going on in Egypt'),(785,'marilyngardner5@gmail.com',1402,1331386411,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Marilyn Gardner\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you so much for reading - I wrote that article before we visited at Christmas time. If you are interested I invite you to take a look at these two posts:\nhttp://communicatingacrossboundariesblog.com/2011/12/29/tahrir-square-walls-and-graffiti/ and\nhttp://communicatingacrossboundariesblog.com/2011/12/26/cairo-christmas-a-weary-world-rejoices/'),(786,'tr@pb-east.com',1403,1331396337,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Tony Roland\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI think the singling out of pastors and using the tern \"fallen\" has subtle if not profound implications. The separate clergy/laity situation leads to isolation for the shepherds, who were designed to live among the flock, in community. This free interaction and open living, helps to defeat darkness so it has a lesser chance of overtaking any of us.'),(787,'damannion@yahoo.com',1404,1331674325,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Doreen Mannion\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI highly recommend 2 recent books on the subject of women and the church: The Resignation of Eve by Jim Henderson and Unladylike by Pam Hogeweide.'),(788,'brooke.eikenberry@gmail.com',1405,1331674468,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Brooke Eikenberry\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks for the book recommendations, Doreen!'),(789,'jb@thriven.org',1407,1331674582,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jonathan Brink\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you for joining the conversation Jerry. That looks like a great book.'),(790,'jb@thriven.org',1406,1331674583,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jonathan Brink\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks Tony. To see with a pure heart what is already there.  May we live with such beautiful eyes.'),(791,'jb@thriven.org',1408,1331674687,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jonathan Brink\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThis was always my tension Stephen.  Behind the dichotomy was a good heart with good intentions.  But over time, I\'ve found that that instruction was ultimately not the deeper way of seeing things.  So I had to let it go to see the Kingdom. And I\'m glad I did.'),(792,'Buddynet02@att.net',1409,1331919688,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Buddy aka Beverly\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nWow, this old feminist feels absolutely enshrined.  Now if I could just get my niece to get it.  LOL!  My sister who passed away on 9-30-2011 had mentioned to me that her daughter and her friends would go \"women\'s lib?\"  They didn\'t get it, and I guess I thought maybe they didn\'t need to.  But about four years ago, my niece then 24, had put an article on her MySpace that really turned my head around.  She is one of those conspiracy theorists who see outrageous plots in just about everything and worries about the \"New World Order.\"  Anyway her article was about one of the Rockefellers telling an interviewer that he bankrolled the feminist movement with the whole idea in mind of breaking up American families to further his New World Order cause.  In the article, he claimed to have financed Ms Magazine and said that Gloria Steinem was a spy for his organization.\r\n\r\nWow!  After all my sister and I did to bring equality to my niece and her generation, this is what they thought about all that???  It caused me to write a very long essay and send it to her.  I have no idea what she made of it.  My niece was born toward the end of 1981, and she also loved shows like Designing Women.  And she had no idea of who Gloria Steinem was until that article she posted and my rebuttal to it.  She is still a conspiracy theorist and the \"only one\" who really knows what\'s going on, so I doubt she got much out of it.\r\n\r\nSo, Alise, your post was a wonderful gift to me and you made my day.'),(793,'alise.d.wright@gmail.com',1410,1331990959,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi AliseWrite\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks for posting the Erma quote in the first place. And thank you for being such a great role model to me. Hugs!'),(794,'melhhanson@yahoo.com',1411,1331994621,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Melody H Hanson (@melodyhhanson)\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI have to admit that I can\'t get my mind around what\'s going on now politically -- this war against women is so Out There and Obvious but it\'s like we\'ve been drugged somehow and there isn\'t enough outrage.  \r\n\r\nI know that it is a threat to women, even a war on women.  And I don\'t understand (naively) why in the world \r\na) they would want to do this to women and \r\nb) why women are seemingly putting up with it.  \r\nand c) what to do about it.  \r\n\r\nI know one thing, we MUST vote.  We only get one vote, but we need to use our collective power to vote.  That\'s one war that was fought valiantly for us even before the old feminists did what they did and we must ennoble ourselves and VOTE!'),(795,'ed@inpulsearts.com',1413,1332228268,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ed\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI once read where Elvis Presley once paraphrased Matthew 19:23-24 as \"a camel\'s ass through the eye of a needle\". Classic humor.\r\n\r\nThanks for writing this. Yeah, we have to watch Jesus and not make Him really humorous, but then again, if it helps people understand, then we should by all means go for it. Just go easy, as He did :)'),(796,'anon@anon.com',1414,1332349678,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Anon\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you for this. So true of where we are right now.'),(797,'Buddynet02@att.net',1415,1332357923,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Buddy aka Beverly\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI was hoping to see a much larger response to Alise\'s article.  I\'ve always said that you can tell the degree of civilization of a group of people just by how women are viewed and treated.  I never got why it is always the women that need to be controlled.  But since we have wombs, and population could not continue without us, maybe that\'s why.\r\n\r\nMy husband once asked me about the veils in eastern countries.  He said jokingly, \"Are their women so ugly that they have to hide their faces?\"  I explained to him that women are seen as the temptress, that even a glimpse of wrist is considered so dangerous to a man\'s ability to control his impulses that she must be fully covered.  And when a woman is raped, it is because she tempted the poor innocent man and is often executed.\r\n\r\nNot long ago, I was watching my favorite true crime channel and they aired an \"honor killing\" segment.  This guy killed his sister because she was raped and that shamed the family, hurt them so much that he had to kill her for the good of the family.  He got three years for that.  When asked if he felt his punishment was just, he waid absolutely not, he did nothing wrong.  He compared a woman to a glass or a dish and said when it\'s broken, it\'s useless, same for a woman.\r\n\r\nI believe that there\'s more behind the \"War on Women\" than meets the eye, and it all goes along with other things I see happening.  If poor women don\'t have easy access to birth control, they will have more children.  Going to war with Iran seems to be popular among the GOP.  The corporations that moved their factories overseas because they didn\'t want to pay a living wage to Americans now want to come back to the states because they see their profit margins slipping, but they have gotten spoiled paying slave wages and they do not want to pay more over here. Otherwise moving back to save shipping costs wouldn\'t even make sense profit wise.  At the same time, there is a push to abolish unions, and some are even suggesting abolishing minimum wage.  So, if more poor children are born, there will be more young people to fight their wars and to work in their factories for pennies.  Mark my words, it\'s not just a \"war on women\" but a war on poor people and they want more to use and exploit.'),(798,'Buddynet02@att.net',1416,1332379423,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Buddy aka Beverly\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThis is what I really wanted to say:\r\n\r\nSo Why the Women?\r\n\r\nI grew up in church and Sunday School, Baptist to be exact, and to me it always seemed like more of a “women’s’ thing.  The pastor was a man of course, and so were the deacons, but women filled the pews, women came to the extra services, and women were always working on charity fund raisers, making quilts to be auctioned off or having bake sales.  My grandmothers and mother were always very involved, my dad did not attend, and most dads and grandfathers attended on Sunday only and even sporadically at that.\r\n\r\nWhen I married, my husband and his family were not religious, so church was never a part of our life together.  When I reached my early 20’s, I began calling myself an atheist and later amended it to agnostic because I didn’t want to seem so egotistical as to say that I knew God didn’t exist.  At the same time, I became a feminist.  Feminism was probably a natural for me, as my father was abusive and my uncle who helped my mom after she divorced my father thought he owned us and he was abusive.  All around me I saw women trying to hold it together while working around men who made life rough on them.\r\n\r\nWhen I reached my early 30’s, I began to realize that I was just fooling myself, that I really did acknowledge God’s existence and that in times of trouble or fear, I called out to him/her/it without even realizing I was doing so.  So I began to pray in private, and out of curiosity, I picked up the Bible and began to read for myself for the very first time in my life.  I found from my own exploration that often verses that people had used to hurt or control me were taken out of context and had nothing to do with the point that scripture was making.  So I became a “closet Christian” and didn’t tell anyone, not even my husband.\r\n\r\nCancer brought me back to church.  I had the aggressive/invasive kind and was going through experimental chemotherapy and wanted to feel God’s love and fellowship with other Christians. I told my husband I wanted to start attending church.  He agreed and we chose a Baptist because both of us had attended church, Sunday and/or vacation Bible school in that denomination growing up.\r\n\r\nWe didn’t realize it, but we were actually attending a Bill Gothard influenced church, and many now believe that those who are under that influence are actually in a cult of sorts.  They were very strict on the women there, and no matter what else they were preaching about, “wives submit” was always stressed and reiterated throughout the sermon.  They didn’t believe that women should work, but acknowledged that sometimes it couldn’t be helped.  They didn’t want women wearing pants or cutting their hair.  They preached against birth control and advised couples to “Let God Plan the Family.”  Even abstinence was not advisable, as they often quoted scripture about not denying each other.  They preferred children to go to their school, but home schooling was also acceptable.  They believed in creation only and that the earth was only six thousand years old.  They did tell men to love their wives, but the rules were mostly for women.  Once I realized that it was a Gothard based church and that Gothardism was basically a cult we got the hell out of there.\r\n\r\nBut at the time, I still couldn’t help but wonder why the women?  For whatever reason, women always seemed to be more spiritual, and usually more responsible.  They held things together while men deserted families or beat the wife and kids.  There was always the “boys will be boys” attitude when I was growing up and that church just seemed to reinforce that.\r\n\r\nThen I began hearing about the War on Women in Afghanistan.  This was at least a couple of years before 9/11.  The Taliban patrolled the streets to make sure that no woman was out un-escorted by a male relative and that she was covered properly.  If a woman had white socks on instead of black, she could be beaten or even killed.  All houses with females inside had their windows blackened.  The Taliban often raided homes where they suspected female children were being home schooled and if they found such activity taking place, they raped the women and girls and then killed them for being whores.  I even read of one such occasion where they shot the men and male children and threw their bodies in a ditch, but the female’s plight was worse, as they threw them in alive and buried them.  I saw a woman being executed on TV for wearing makeup.\r\n\r\nFor this reason, I have always felt angry whenever I saw a woman wearing a veil.  I am working to change my prejudice on that as I now know that many women, even in this country, and some of them are women who have converted to Islam, want to wear the veil.  I assume it is for the same reason that women fill our churches, no matter what it costs them, because the spirituality they seek is worth it to them.\r\n\r\nBut again, I wonder what’s going on today with the GOP’s War on Women.  They seem to be trying to set us back 50 years.  It’s like the strides we made never happened.  And I think the answer must be that it’s because we have wombs.  We bring life into the world.  Yes, men fertilize the eggs, but women carry the child in their wombs for nine months, and for the most part nurture the child for the greatest part of their non-adult lives.  Women have breasts, and while tantalizing to men, they can sustain life as well.  Without women bearing children, the population would cease to exist, unless it they perfected a way to grow fetuses in a test tube and incubate them without the help of a woman’s womb and have them turn out okay with no horrible flaws to be unleashed on the world.  So, men want to control the sex that produces and sustains life because their own existence and the preservation of the species is all wrapped up in the fertility of women.  And I believe they have found even more ulterior motives in this century.\r\n\r\nI ascertain that there is more going on than meets the eye with the so-called War on Women.  I see it as a war on poor people.  The corporations moved their industries overseas because they did not want to pay a living wage to American workers.  Now, they want to bring some of the factories back to the states. Why?  Because the cost of shipping is causing them to notice a slightly lower profit margin.  At the same time, the One Percent is trying to abolish unions and many are suggesting also eliminating minimum wage.  Now we are hearing the faint echo of yet another war.  The GOP candidates want to start something up in Iran.  With all this in mind, I think that by making birth control not readily available for poor women, they are investing in their future vision of lots of poor youth to fight their wars and work for pennies in their factories.  The control of women’s wombs to enrich their own future is what this is all about.  Now if the good women of the church could only get wise to this, we could possibly see some real power.  But with the brainwashing of Faux News, the high jacking of the Christian religion, the prosperity doctrine that filled the mainstream Christian churches in the 1980’s along with Ayn Rand’s philosophy becoming an icon for a Christian based life, not only is selfishness acceptable, but considered a godly and righteous way to be.  The so-called Christian Right support the GOP and believe that it is the American way.  They embrace the “trickle down” theory because they worship the rich and tell themselves that they too can be rich if they keep the current rich One Percent in Power.  So even though it appears to be all about the women, it’s really all a part of the Class War.  I want to believe that women will be wiser this time around, that they will be able to sort the wheat from the chaff, no matter how religious they are, but it remains to be seen.  I implore everyone to pray to whatever power they believe in, or think good thoughts, light candles and chant, any and all you do to invoke the power to let the good side win this one.'),(799,'pamhogeweide@gmail.com',1418,1332436965,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Pam Hogeweide\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\ngreat post chloe. \r\n\r\n\"the cult of christian ministry,\" my fave line.  \r\n\r\nthe cult of christian ministry also sets christians up to despise ordinary living, as if we\'ve missed the higher call or failed at being truly great for God.  I think your post here is prophetic and a very needed message for the church today.'),(800,'kcravensbergen@yahoo.ca',1419,1332451168,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Charlene\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you Chloe a fantastic post and you write so well.  I needed that.'),(801,'s.walton@lst.ac.uk',1420,1332502537,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Steve Walton\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nGood stuff Chloe! You\'re hitting the nail on the head here: the cult of \'bigger is better\' is thoroughly dangerous in Christian circles. I\'ve shared this in fb.'),(802,'wtwsarahb@yahoo.com',1421,1332502542,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Sarah B\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nChloe, this was fab. I militate against the pedestalling of preachers and speakers (and even, these days, worship leaders). Yet the whispered temptation is there for us all. I\'m still in training, but am minister of a church of less than 20. I really love them and know it is right for me to be here. But in the work I used to do, I was regularly published, including two co-authored short books. It\'s easy to listen to the whisper that my material is as good as that of \'well known\' speakers, to dream of \'glory\' when it is all a gift. It doesn\'t help if others push you (college want me to publish something) even if it was good work. Good for you, girl. Stick to your guns. But if God does grow your ministry beyond your current small church, remember that too is His gift. Mighty oaks really do grow from tiny acorns. Be blessed and be a blessing.'),(803,'theartofsteering@gmail.com',1422,1332502644,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Chloe Lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks, Pam...I think it\'s most prophetic for me: I can slip up so quickly on this one!  appreciate the feedback, by the way.'),(804,'theartofsteering@gmail.com',1423,1332502662,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Chloe Lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks, Charlene, as ever!'),(805,'theartofsteering@gmail.com',1424,1332502697,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Chloe Lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks, Charlene, as ever for your encouragement!'),(806,'theartofsteering@gmail.com',1425,1332502838,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Chloe Lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks, Steve; I saw the share too...very kind of you!'),(807,'theartofsteering@gmail.com',1426,1332503258,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Chloe Lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you, Sarah; may God bless you as you train and serve because I know from experience how hard it is to manage to do both!'),(808,'2punkin@gmail.com',1427,1332521655,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jenn\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nNot all of us in the younger generation don\'t or didn\'t get it. Born in 1981 most people would think I have never \"really\" been faced wth discrimination based on my gender. Thankfully, because of the women that preceeded, me it can hardly compare to that which they faced, but it never did go away completely. It was my mother who told me of the inequality in her day.  And thankfully it was also she who was sitting beside me when I received the most blatant sexist putdown ever. I was visiting colleges and while meeting with a college counselor I was told by him that college really wasn\'t that vital for me because I was pretty enough to just marry well.\r\n\r\nSo, not all of us didn\'t get it. Those early women are my role models. I\'ve known them. I\'ve studied them. And as for your niece, I\'m happy to fight for her rights even if she doesn\'t care or believe they need to be fought for.'),(809,'Chandi@horseheart.net',1428,1332541867,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi B j A\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nA friend who was a former student at LBC sent this article to me....I found it quite inspiring.\r\nWhat matters most, as this piece suggests is the depth...isn\'t it?  Without roots we can end up like Christmas trees.   Christianity is sadly plagued by the cult of celebrity.  Most preachers, workers in ministry hunt for platforms - that seems to be the norm.\r\nThis article counteracts that trend and offers another way of looking at it - \"The more excellent way\".\r\nKeep up the good work!\r\n BjA'),(810,'theartofsteering@gmail.com',1429,1332541910,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Chloe Lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you!'),(811,'caleb@calebmcnary.com',1430,1332616933,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Caleb McNary\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nIn tears. Ken, thank you so much for that post, it was incredible.'),(812,'kensebay1@yahoo.com',1431,1332617287,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ken Hagerman\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nMy pleasure. It was and continues to be a learning experience being in the mission field.'),(813,'torconbooks@gmail.com',1433,1332621916,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Tor Constantino\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nWow buddy, this is one of the most powerful and shocking revelations I\'ve ever had. Thank you for tipping my world on edge!  Blessings to you and your family!'),(814,'bignoseduglyguy@gmail.com',1432,1332621916,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Buzz\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nReading this during some quiet time early on this wet Sunday morning here in New Zealand after a Saturday evening of struggles and doubts about how I relate to my family as a husband and father. I am struck by how much of my own perception and image of myself is fashioned by how I believe others see me and what they think of me.  So, in response to you last questions, perhaps I have and probably not often enough.  Thanks you for the timely post.'),(815,'kensebay1@yahoo.com',1434,1332627072,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ken Hagerman\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks for reading. New Zealand huh, that\'s a couple of miles from me. Honestly, the comment you wrote I could have written it myself today. Keep looking in the mirror and listening to Him. I need to do that,too.'),(816,'kensebay1@yahoo.com',1435,1332627302,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ken Hagerman\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks my friend. My world is still tipping by what He is doing with me daily.'),(817,'eknowles@embarqmail.com',1436,1332628817,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Eileen\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nKen,  \r\n\r\nThis is beautiful story. Thank you!   It took me back to the trips I\'ve made to the Dominican Rep on mission trips.  We had several team members who were photographers.  Each year we go to a very remote and poor area and hand out rice and beans.   This past year we were able to hand deliver pictures of many of the kids/families we took pictures of the year before.  They were thrilled!   What a great gift!'),(818,'kensebay1@yahoo.com',1437,1332633534,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ken Hagerman(The Barba)\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThat\'s great. The photos are such a good gift. The mothers especially cherish them.'),(819,'stephenhaggerty@gmail.com',1438,1332718220,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Stephen Haggerty\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nFirst off- awesome idea about the pictures, Ken. That\'s a great idea to show love to these people you were called to. I\'m diggin\' it.\r\nSecond, amazing story, and fantastic analogy. It moves me a great deal to think about this, that while I\'m calling myself \"failure,\" \"poser\", and \"not good enough\", Jesus is calling me \"forgiven,\" \"approved\", and \"child of God.\"'),(820,'kensebay1@yahoo.com',1439,1332731430,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ken Hagerman\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThat is exactly what He is saying if we will just trust Him at His word. Thanks for reading.'),(821,'wtwsarahb@yahoo.com',1441,1332923894,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Sarah B\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nEarlier in the year, during a sermon series on God, one week focussed on \'our suffering God\' and we explored his own suffering and how he walks with us in our suffering.\r\nI have found the hijacking of Lent making it a time \'to give something up\' very unhelpful. I have often found, too, that Christians jump straight from the pain of Good Friday to the joy of Resurrection Sunday without the suspense, pain, anguish, confusion and disappointment of Holy Saturday. As church we seem incapable of spending even a day in a state some people live in for weeks, months or years. What do we have to offer them? \r\nWe must learn not to stick a plaster over our wounds, disappointments and pain. In a fallen world, stuff happens; stuff we would not invite or desire. And God is with us in all of it, but we don\'t seem to be able to say or acknowledge that. \r\nHelpful songs for such times might include \'we have sung our songs of victory\' and music from the Northumbria Community like \'kyrie eleison\' and \'broken I stand\'. Maybe it would be good to ask Spring Harvest, New Wine and other big conferences to have at least a \'Lament strand\' within their programme, or to really bite the bullet and have a whole conference focussed on the times of sorrow, suffering and mourning, rather than of celebration, cheer and rejoicing?'),(822,'wjkampe@comcast.net',1442,1332949862,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jake\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nFor those who declare, \"I AM TRAYVON\", when they are more like GEORGE, we pray to the Lord.'),(823,'Buddynet02@att.net',1443,1332953278,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Buddy aka Beverly\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nAs a white middle-aged female, I cannot claim what it feels like to be blac., However, my heart has broken many times for my half black nephew, son of my sister (may she RIP).  \r\n\r\nNathan is a grown man now with a son of his own, but growing up looking African American with a white mother and little sister was not easy for him.  He was called \"zebra\" in school by kids who didn\'t like him, yet he was well liked by most because he is a wonderful person, handsome, kind and nice to be around.  \r\n\r\nI can remember an indicent where he was walking home from his girlfriend\'s house, not doing anything wrong, and he was stopped by police, slammed up against a cop car, spread eagled and searched.  He was only 16 at the time.  What that did to his psyche, I\'ll never know because he does not talk about things like that.  He is a good person with a good heart, and he goes through life with a good attitude.  But I do know how much it has hurt me when I have been treated badly and unfairly.  What happened to Trayvon hit me in a mighty and personal way.\r\n\r\nWe need to learn to really do what Jesus told us to do, and that is to love one another, and that includes minorities, gays, poor people and people who have different beliefs than we do.  I hope the Christian community will start showing a loving example and change the image many have of Christianity now due to many things the so-called Christian right do and say.  And that\'s my two cents worth.'),(824,'travismamone83@gmail.com',1444,1332955028,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Travis Mamone\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nYes, thank you Beverly!'),(825,'j.c.rogers@gmail.com',1445,1332959900,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jon Rogers\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nPractically, do you have any suggestions on what that Holy Saturday service would sound and look like? Fancy writing us an article on it?!'),(826,'wtwsarahb@yahoo.com',1446,1332967138,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Sarah B\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nHappy to have a go...\r\nprobably don\'t have time until Saturday, if I\'m honest.\r\nWould you like an outline, with suggestions for materials - music, images, actions, poems, readings, or a more descriptive thing about tone and/or feel?'),(827,'j.c.rogers@gmail.com',1447,1333013271,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jon Rogers\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nBoth! I think it would be a great thing to write now (and re-publish during lent 2013!) You can fill in the form on this page: http://provoketive.com/writing-for-provoketive/ to become a regular author or we could work out the best way to put up a guest post if you only want to do a one-off.'),(828,'daisydaisychick@yahoo.com',1450,1333153986,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Daisy Rain Martin\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you for writing this. I didn\'t report my sexual abuse as a child, but I\'m about to come out with a book that spills it all. It\'s my story to tell. And if my mother and her husband didn\'t want me to spill it, they should have given me a better story to tell. The book is called, \"Juxtaposed\" and it is coming out in the fall. www.daisyrainmartin.com\r\n\r\nThe best, best, BEST of luck and love to you, my friend,\r\n\r\nDaisy Rain Martin'),(829,'firetos@gmail.com',1448,1333225431,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Cran Apple\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI know I\'m commenting way late, but I\'ll do it anyway. I don\'t buy the premise of your statement. You somehow think that a marriage is about sex. It isn\'t. It\'s the symbolism of a relationship between two people. Some married couples have virtually no sex at all. I don\'t know why you would think this.'),(830,'dannywickham@yahoo.es',1451,1333231490,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi wiskers\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nWell Cran Apple, glad you have joined in. Marriage is not exclusively about sex and you aren´t wrong in pointing this out but it is the norm in most that a man and a woman do have sex as the most intimate physical expression of their mutual love and pleasure in each other. It is definitely not the be-all-and end all of the relationship. Mutual trust and a common aim would be paramount for me. Companionship and mutual assistance too. \r\n\r\nAnything you want to define otherwise would be a very good friendship, perhaps? I know quite a few (mainly female) couples who live together for company´s sake and I don´t see this as wrong. But when a man and a woman wish to live together for the rest of their lives and build a family then sex has to happen and that is the real definition of marriage in every culture, not just the christian culture which we know best. But I´d love to hear other submits on this. Thanks Cran.'),(831,'firetos@gmail.com',1449,1333239792,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Cran Apple\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nScratch that last comment. I had an oblivious moron moment there... You are exactly saying that marriage is not about sex. I am so silly.'),(832,'franko@juno.com',1452,1333374364,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi ChristianNoob\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you for your feedback. I\'m glad this article has made someone take two minutes to share her story -- one of millions of stories.\r\n\r\nI\'ve seen too many lives destroyed by sexual abuse. I\'m including three examples.\r\n\r\n\r\n<em>BL</em> (initials only for privacy) was abused as a young child (about 5), prompting her start having sex like crazy at age 14 having nothing (no virginity) to lose and then sleeping with man after man in a string of bad relationships (last count over 120). Somehow she found a good man who now is her husband.\r\nAnother example is <em>MC</em> who was raped for hanging out with the wrong crowd at 14. Her life has been a mess since often sabotaging her own relationships.\r\nOne of the most painful examples that I know of is my friend <em>NH</em> who was raped in a part by some stranger holding a knife to her neck. At least she had a \"normal\" sexual life and now is happily married.\r\n\r\n\r\nIn all these cases and many more that I know of, their families and partners don\'t know anything about the abuse or the abuser. Perhaps male survivors suffer most staying silent often taking their stories to their graves -- for fear of ridicule or been called gay or, worse yet, becoming an abuser too. Needless to say (type), religion much too often doesn\'t help as it sees victims as dirty and at times even accuse the victim.'),(833,'a-ormon@proverbsnwisdom.com',1453,1333386409,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ashley O.\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nSuperb, Chloe. Well-penned. \r\n\r\nWhen I first started ministry it wasn\'t about how many people on average were ministered to nor was it about how big my platform was. And although it\'s only natural for us to desire growth, I think sometimes we confuse \"growth\" with creating a bigger platform rather than spiritual growth in the Lord. Instead of being so heavily concerned about the number of people behind us (or with us) we should be concerned about the impact we have on the few surrounding us.'),(834,'theartofsteering@gmail.com',1454,1333386820,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Chloe Lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks for your feedback, Ashley; I appreciate you taking the time!'),(835,'Buddynet02@att.net',1455,1333556497,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Buddy aka Beverly\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThe first time I ever heard of this procedure was from a book I read in the late 1960s called \"Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Sex But was Afraid to Ask.\"  I was a newlywed at the time and had thought it was some ancient custom in Africa and no longer practiced.  I couldn\'t imagine such cruelty.  I began hearing about it again in later years when a beautiful African-American model came out and said this had been done to her.  I have since heard that in some cultures, they not only mutilate the girl, but they stitch her back up, leaving only a tiny area for her to urinate out of.  On the wedding night, the husband has to open her with a knife before taking his husbandly rights.  And some of the cultures restitch her after childbirth.  The reasoning behind this is that sex brings only pain, never pleasure to a female.  How barbaric is this and why does it still exist???  When will womenkind ever be seen as fully human and treated humanely an all levels???'),(836,'franko@juno.com',1456,1333558442,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi ChristianNoob\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI knew it was practiced in parts of Africa, but not in Muslim-controlled nations in the Middle East. In Egypt especially the government checks for hymen to be intact (virginity tests) and now want to make female circumcision obligatory. When I saw <a href=\"http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Type_IV_circumcision.jpg\" title=\"Type_IV_circumcision.jpg\" rel=\"nofollow\">this picture</a> (<em>not safe for children</em>), I felt all kind of pains even though I don\'t have female parts.\r\n\r\nEgyptian journalist <a href=\"http://twitter.com/monaeltahawy\" title=\"Mona Eltahawy\" rel=\"nofollow\">Mona Eltahawy</a> has been very vocal about this. I hope she writes a response to this post, hopefully giving us more information.'),(837,'wtwsarahb@yahoo.com',1457,1333572073,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Sarah B\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nhi Jon.\r\nI\'ve done a piece, but don\'t really have time to be a regular blogger - ministerial training and leading a congregation over-fill my time already - so what\'s the best way to send it as a one-off responsive piece for now? It\'s just under 900 words, but includes two service outlines as well as the thought provoking article!'),(838,'crystalslewis@gmail.com',1458,1333666167,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Crystal Lewis\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nBeautifully-said Travis. Thank you for sharing this heartfelt and deeply personal post. I agree that the concept of God suffering \"with\" me, rather than standing on the sidelines demanding that I be \"strong\" is extremely powerful. Also, very thought-provoking. Good stuff here. :)'),(839,'joyleewilson@gmail.com',1459,1333768418,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Joy Wilson\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nRobyn, I totally relate.  I\'m an Episcopalian who sings Bach at 9:00 AM on Sunday mornings, drawn into the sacred mystery by the beauty of the liturgy.  Then I dash to the other side of town and rock\'n\'roll with my very contemporary United Methodist Church-in-disguise at 11:00 AM.  I relate to both, and so belong to both.\r\n\r\nLast night I was a part of Holy Communion\'s Maunday Thursday service, and was transfixed (as always) by the stripping of the altar.  I cry through the whole thing, drawn into the night Jesus humbled himself to suffer such agony and shame.\r\n\r\nTonight I was drawn into the events of Good Friday as if I was there by powerful ritual and Scripture readings at Heartsong Church.  I couldn\'t even speak as we left the church.\r\n\r\nHoly Week is hard, but it needs to be.  It goes without saying that it was hard for Jesus.  But when I truly allow myself to personalize the events of that week, I face the perils of my own humanity.  When have I abandoned Jesus, or lied about our relationship?  When have I hurt so bad that I thought I couldn\'t stand it?  When have I cursed God, then wished with all my heart that He was there for me?  \r\n\r\nIf I never hurt this badly, I would have no need for God\'s healing.  If I never doubted, I could never experience faith.  If Holy Week wasn\'t hard, I wouldn\'t care about it and the crucial meaning it has for my life.'),(840,'theologybird@gmail.com',1460,1333770847,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi reverendrobyn\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nJoy,\r\nI feel the same way about the stripping of the altar.\r\nAnd I agree that Holy Week being hard isn\'t bad.  When we lean into that tension I think that we are pulled into questions like those you pose.\r\nHoly Week is hard.  Hard is not the same thing as bad.\r\nRobyn'),(841,'rayrayc17@live.com',1461,1333843665,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nYou\'re right Tony. I was speaking with a pastor a few days ago who had committed adultery. It had been a long time ago. Even in that long period of time, he is still an object of shame and derision in his community. He feels that God still wants to use him in some way, but he is not given any chance by the churches around him. At times, he is faced with not being allowed to be a productive church member because of his past.\r\n\r\nUnfortunately, the search term \"fallen pastor\" is a common way to refer to those who have committed a sin. That\'s not the way God looks at us, He has set us free from our sin. We are clean and have been washed from all unrighteousness. But that\'s not the way the world sees us. We will always have to deal with the consequences of our actions.\r\n\r\nI always tell pastors to find a community of faith that will love them, encourage their gifts and allow them to work freely in the capacity God allows them. It is a difficult thing to find in this world. But I thank God that there are churches like that out there, but they are often far and few between.'),(842,'rayrayc17@live.com',1462,1333843762,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nBruce, thanks for the comment. I\'ve told fallen ministers before that we probably are better preachers now than we were before our adultery. We now know the grace of God and His forgiveness like we never knew before.\r\n\r\nIn the times I have been able to preach, God\'s love and forgiveness have come to the forefront like never before. It\'s been amazing the response I\'ve gotten.'),(843,'sarahboote@hotmail.com',1463,1334091644,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Sarah\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nyes, thank you. Your response should go out to a wider audience.'),(844,'joyleewilson@gmail.com',1464,1334093006,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Joy Wilson\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI totally agree with you, Ray.  For me, I find the reading of the gospel accounts combined with visual symbolism very moving and much more realistic that any reinactment play.  Churches do  this in a variety of ways, but when the story comes to life in our imaginations, God makes it personal for us.\r\n\r\nIn my church, the Maunday Thursday and Good Friday services make the events from the Last Supper through the death of Christ come alive for me.  On Thursday, we read how Jesus washed his disciples\' feet, then we wash each others\' feet.  We are told what Jesus said about the bread and wine, then share Communion together.  The altar and altar area are stripped of everything except for the cross which is covered in black, while the lights dim as we sing \"Stay with me, remain here with me. Watch and pray.\"  These rituals enable me to \"see\" what happened that night.\r\n\r\nOn Good Friday, the Biblical account is read of Jesus\' trial and suffering, ending in death.  Meditations are intertwined, like when Peter denies Christ, we are asked, \"When have you denied knowing Jesus?\"  Gradually the lights are dimmed and we leave in silence.\r\n\r\nChurches observe Holy Week in a variety of ways.  But, for me, the scenes God shows me in my mind make the story real and very personal.  A reinactment is neither real nor does it make the story of those three days personal.'),(845,'rayrayc17@live.com',1465,1334193805,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nJoy, glad to have a kindred spirit. The liturgical services based on scripture are profound. I just struggle imagining the early church being comfortable with these reenactments. A show without proclamation is useless. \r\n\r\nI hope churches turn their energy to showing the active love of Christ to the world. That\'s what we are called to do. \r\n\r\nI am reading your book, by the way. Just slow going. I love it so far!'),(846,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1468,1334538357,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tom lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nSo much can be said, on various tangents or levels, about this fine piece you wrote, Jonathan.  Where I went was “the bondage to self,”  my beloved lockup for far too many years (but in reality, just enough).\r\n\r\nWhen I was in Hospice training during the early 90s, I adopted the belief of having no expectations of others.  This seemed a highly evolved stance to take and appeared to suit as well the principles of AA. With seven years of sobriety under my belt, I at least had the intellectual capacity to see where expectations of justice, fairness, or anything else placed on others was the root of much inner conflict and outer strife.  “turning the other cheek” was for people who had such a profound understanding of the esoteric ways of spirit.  Too funny.\r\n\r\nIt also became clear at that time that more harmed was been done by those who took offense than those who gave it, at least as I reviewed my life and made a cursory scan at the world\'s history.  Such noble thinking had me feel, at that time, just a few watts short of eclat enlightenment; a few more amps of such insights and I was there.\r\n\r\nAt the last school lunch before Spring Break, a friend was regaling our group about her expectations for her return to Ojai, what a great reception and good time she would have.  “Poor dear,” I thought, “so spiritually primitive.” (Horrors of horrors, my actual reflection.)  \r\n\r\nI listened only for a break, just biding my time til when I could take her aside and warn her of her pending folly.  Then grace tapped me on the shoulder and I turned, looking deep into my soul: the light was on in the basement.  What I saw shocked and saddened me.  \r\n\r\nI had been hiding behind this blind of “no expectations” because of the fear and conviction that I was both unlovable and unacceptable; there could never be such an exuberant welcome for the likes of me.  I was merely tolerated, as long as I stayed in my lowly place and made no waves.  \r\n\r\nTwenty years or so later, the story of this woman\'s stand for her dignity, against what I perceive of as great doubt and perhaps real terror, gives me great joy. And Rosa Parks is to me a great saint.\r\n\r\n What a gift you helped her to realize.  Too few in the Church recognize this “shadow self,” being more concerned with not sinning.  Thank you.'),(847,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1469,1334538630,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tom lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nLast sentence should read, \"Too many in the Church DON\'T recognize, lol.'),(848,'jb@thriven.org',1470,1334544385,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jonathan Brink\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks Tom.  It is good to hear your voice again. And thank you for your kind words.'),(849,'ed@inpulsearts.com',1471,1334546254,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ed\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nRosa Parks was a BOLD woman!'),(850,'jb@thriven.org',1472,1334548820,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jonathan Brink\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nYes she was Ed. What I didn\'t post was how influential she was. In the book, the author goes on to show how her love for people deeply influenced the response that followed.  She worked tirelessly for other people volunteering, connecting, etc.  So when that moment happened, people want to give back to her and to support what she helped move.'),(851,'Buddynet02@att.net',1474,1334599969,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Buddy aka Beverly\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI\'m so glad for your article.  I\'ve had this discussion with so-called Christian conservatives many a time.  Usually it starts with them complaining about tax money going to social programs and how it\'s killing our economy and how we need to make cuts.  So I remind them that Jesus said to render unto Caesar what is Caesar\'s; in other words, that we are to pay our taxes.  They say yes, but they don\'t think the taxes should have to go to social programs.  So I remind them that Jesus was all about helping the poor, \"the least of them.\"  They say they are fine with helping the poor but that the government should just stay out of it.  So I tell them that I agree with them, that Jesus didn\'t get to tell Caesar what to do with the tax money he collected, but I can\'t help but think he would approve of it.  I tell them to imagine what if Caesar did seek Jesus\'s advice on what to do with the tax money.  I could just imagine Caesar showing Jesus around his opulent castle and saying I have gold and silver everywhere, my gold crown has jewels inlaid, my wives all dress in the finest silk and are laden with jewels, as are my concubines.  Even my servants wear the finest polished cotton.  What should I do with my latest windfall?  Then I imagine Jesus taking Caesar for a little walk around his kindom, starting with the market place, past the blind and the beggars, into a few of the poorer homes to visit the sick and dying, and past the leper camps and turning to Caesar and saying do you see anywhere your money could be put to good use?  Of course, the choice is now Caesars, just as it is ours.  But I think as much as Jesus cared for the poor and the sick, he would certainly approve of a portion of what we pay in to the govrnment go there, and I even think it would be a priority.\r\n\r\nI put something in my Facebook status a while ago about the poor, and the comments I got were that we didn\'t need social programs for this, that the churches and charities would take care of this.  So I reminded my commentors that in the 1930s, during the times of tent cities and tar shacks, these programs were implimented because the churches and charities couldn\'t do enough.  Neither can they today for all the families without means due to outsourcing and downsizing of jobs.  A bundle of gently used clothing, a blanket or two, a couple loaves of bread, a bag of beans or potatoes and a couple of packages of macaroni and cheese isn\'t going to feed a family for long, nor will it pay their rent, utilities and put gass in their car to look for work or get to job interviews.  And passing around that \"special offering plate\" will not take just one family far for long either.  We need those insititutions.  The very next day I again put something about the poor and how we should help in my status, and this time my first comment was from a self-described Christian conservative that said, \"I\'m not about to give to any charities.  They can just work like I have to.\"  So much for that Christian\'s loving heart toward those with less than himself, and I see this same attitude often among Christians, but most are less blunt about it.\r\n\r\nSo I am wondering what has happened to the Christian attitude I grew up with?  The Christ I learned about back in the day, before the \"Prosperity Doctrine\" began to invade our mainstream Christian churches 30 years ago, and before Ayn Rand\'s \"Atlas Shrugged\" made a resurgeance in the 1980s, that Christ was about turning the other cheek and told us that if someone asks for your cloak, give them your coat as well.  Christ stressed the importance of healing the sick and helping the poor.  Never, never did I ever hear it taught that they were a bunch of lazy bums that could just go and work themselves.  I wonder where our Christian ethic has gone.  Nowdays, I see so many Christians that carry an attitude of selfishness, an \"I got mine, so the heck with you\" attitude so prevasive that it\'s almost become their mantra.  Not only is it okay to be selfish and to want to hang on to what\'s yours, but it is now seen as a godly attitude.  Talk about having your ears tickled!\r\n\r\nIf is for this reason and a few others as well that I no longer consider myself a conservative and will not vote that way.  At this time, I even struggle with the word \"Christian\" because of what it has come to represent, and which is the very opposite of what I think Christ was all about.  Thank you again for your timely article.'),(852,'jmartensconsulting@hotmail.com',1473,1334600234,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi John.\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks for the article!\r\n\r\nLast night I was challenged by another article that seemed to really crystalize the issues at stake in this topic. You may also like it as it gives some answers to your questions. And, like you, the author goes back to Genesis to establish the rational for our responsibility to seek social justice. You can find the article by Michael Horton here: http://www.modernreformation.org/default.php?page=articledisplay&amp;var1=ArtRead&amp;var2=1276&amp;var3=authorbio&amp;var4=AutRes&amp;var5=1'),(853,'jmartensconsulting@hotmail.com',1475,1334604873,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi John.\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nOne good example of God using government to care for the basic needs of the people is the Biblical account of Joseph\'s role in Egypt. In this story God\'s man was instrumental in directing government to care for the hungry in a way that no other institution could. The people saved from this seven year famine were not \'the people of God\', yet God obviously cared for them. From this you could easily draw the conclusion that the wisdom of God directs governments to care for their people using resources demanded from the people.'),(854,'jeff@hometownprophetbook.com',1476,1334611881,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi HometownProphet\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks for your reply. Obviously, I too have been frustrated with the way conservative politics became co-mingled with Christianity.  Ayn Rand does seem to be a pretty good representative of that hybrid ideology.   Of course, while she worked with evangelicals on some common goals, she did not share their religious views.  Sadly, many Christians have taken up her beliefs over their own gospel when it comes to matters of social justice.  I wrote a blog about that a while back called <a href=\"http://www.hometownprophetbook.com/the-radical-atheistic-agenda-of-ayn-rand/\" rel=\"nofollow\">The Radical Atheistic Agenda of Ayn Rand</a>.'),(855,'jeff@hometownprophetbook.com',1477,1334612628,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi HometownProphet\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nHey John, the Horton article was good.  From what I understood, it makes the case for applying the greatest commandments to society as a whole, which would include loving others as yourself. I also appreciate the example of God using Joseph (Egypt\'s Secretary of Agriculture or the Interior) to save people\'s lives.  Then and now, God can work through governments and institutions to accomplish His will.'),(856,'rifleman@gmail.com',1478,1334776164,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi LeftyRodriguez\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThis photo belongs to me and is used here in violation of copyright.  Please remove immediately.'),(857,'rifleman@gmail.com',1479,1334782421,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi LeftyRodriguez\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nDespite promises to remove this image as I am the copyright holder and assurances it had been removed, it\'s still here.'),(858,'sammykat76@gmail.com',1480,1334850874,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi LizzyBean\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nWell written! When I was in my earl twenties, and was a sexually active young woman, I took the pill for my own safety. You can\'t always trust that a condom won\'t break, or that he\'ll even have one on him in the first place. Even though now I take it more for health than to prevent pregnancy, it angers me that I should have to justify it to *anyone* as to why I want/need them.'),(859,'sarazblum@gmail.com',1481,1334850945,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Sara\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nAgreed! And should we not be trying to encourage responsible sexual interactions? Women attempting to prevent an unwanted pregnancy should be encouraged at every turn. They are doing what is best for them and for our society.'),(860,'Buddynet02@att.net',1482,1334858615,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Buddy aka Beverly\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI\'m so glad you chose this topic, Alise.  I was shocked and dismayed to find out that in this day and age, birth control for women is still an issue with anyone.  But apparently, Rush Limbaugh and his little blue Viagra pills are just A-okay, and as a superior male being, he has the right to cast judgment on a young lady who explained the medicinal value of the pill and call her a slut and a prostitute and tell her she ought to make a porno tape and let him watch it to pay for her pills.  It seemed like we were back in 1972 again to this old feminist.\r\n\r\nRick Santorum, who seemed to be campaigning for high school dance chaperon more than running for president, says he doesn\'t think birth control is necessary or that it\'s good for women.  And a lot of republicans don\'t seem to mind as they are thinking about teen sex, and don\'t realize that this so-called \"small government\" man wants to control what married people do as well.  Scott Walker, good old union buster, has also jumped on the bandwagon against birth control.  And again the rightwing seems to be okay with it.  Somehow it all seems to come down to the female sex and keeping them under control, yet the GOP as turned this all around and is now calling it \"Obama\'s War on Women.\"  I keep wondering where the republican women\'s outrage is on all this, but traditionally, republicans seem to be obsessed with sex, especially other people\'s and what they might be doing, so they see this as an attack on promiscuity, not on women, working women who can\'t just be pregnant all the time.  \r\n\r\nThe latest has been the so-called attack on Mrs. Romney for being a stay-at-home mom of five.  I have just come from a message board where people are saying that President Obama put the lady reporter up to asking her the obvious.  But Mitt has sent his wife out to be an ambassador to try and smooth the ruffled feathers of women offended by the whole birth control thing, and he says his wife tells him that women aren\'t all that worried about contraception, but jobs is their big issue.  So if I was that reporter, my question would be just what kind of jobs could women get and hold if they are pregnant all the time?  Taking in laundry and babysitting?  Can anyone anywhere be sane about this???  Must it be a political issue instead of a woman\'s issue?  I\'d love to hear from republican women on this.  Thank you.'),(861,'JanetOberholtzer@gmail.com',1483,1334890158,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Janet Oberholtzer\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nGreat post Alise!\r\nIt was great to read some of the same thoughts that I\'ve had loosely roaming through my head recently pulled together into coherent thoughts and sentences. Though personally, my libido is taking a long vacation in a cold tundra somewhere, I get annoyed at the double-standard that exists for men and women. \r\n\r\nWrite on!'),(862,'moonsn11@gmail.com',1484,1334904687,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Sarah Moon\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nYES! This is so true and so awesome, Alise! Thanks for standing up for women with sex drives (which is nearly all of us :P)'),(863,'contact@lisadelay.com',1485,1334926069,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Lisa\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThere are some cultural assumptions and influencers in the undercurrent of this issue. Questions about acceptable behavior arise, and it seems expectations play a bigger role than we\'d care to admit or believe.\r\n\r\nIf it wasn\'t for birth control, my husband and I would  probably have  6-10 kids. I have wondered if I\'ve stopped God\'s blessing sometimes...but I also realize that my plate is full. Planning is a blessing. I live in a time where a lot, even a person\'s existence, can be shaped by my control. So, I encounter that for a minute....and WOW. That\'s sobering! It\'s weighty. I\'m not sure I\'m ready to absorb what that means.\r\n\r\nWhat happens when we think we can, and we do exert such control?\r\n...much more than we first assume...'),(864,'contact@lisadelay.com',1486,1334930505,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Lisa\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nIn related news, Mars Hill Church is suing the city of Athens, and Luke, the writer of Acts. Reports say an Unknown god, is still unknown.'),(865,'vickijocox@yahoo.com',1487,1334945351,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jo\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nDoes Provoketive welcome all conversation?  And you, Alise?\r\n\r\nI think you completely missed the boat on this one.  The judgment isn\'t about behavior at all.  If that is what you\'re hearing, you\'re listening to the wrong voices.  The issue is women taking responsibility for themselves.  I am beyond childbearing years now, but I never, ever expected my birth control choice (for me, The Pill) to be free or for taxpayers to pay for it.  I worked at a bank as a teller at minimum wage, a single, self-supporting adult.  Later it was a family choice.  This is what the debate is about, taking responsibility for yourself.  Please don\'t muddy the discussion by making it appear to be anything other than that.  Anyone with a cell phone, a computer, and Internet can afford, and should be responsible for, their own birth control.  Do you not agree with that?  That\'s the issue.  Who cares, really, how much sex women have or want?  Or men.  Women want to be seen as equals, they need to man-up, act like equals, and learn to self-support w/o whining.  Thanks for listening to a different POV.'),(866,'alise.d.wright@gmail.com',1488,1334946670,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi AliseWrite\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\n@Jo - If health insurance didn\'t regularly cover vasectomies and things like Viagra, I think you would have a point. But I\'ve seen no one who argues against the inclusion of the pill in health insurance plans say that these things should no longer be covered. And those on both side of the discussion seem to downplay women\'s sexuality. On one side, women who ask to have birth control added to health insurance are called sluts. On the other side, sexuality is completely ignored by focusing strictly on \"health\" issues. But really, women should be allowed to enjoy sex without justifying it to anyone.\r\n\r\nIn this I\'m not trying to make a comment about the inclusion of female contraceptives one way or the other, but simply to say that in the discussion, let\'s allow women\'s sexuality to be equal to that of men\'s. Right now, I don\'t believe that\'s the case.'),(867,'christine.organ@yahoo.com',1489,1334948171,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Christine\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nYes, yes, and yes!  Preventing unwanted pregnancies is a responsible, just like any proactive health care which is largely covered by health insurance.   But even beyond that equal access to birth control benefits our entire society by preventing pregnancies that are not only unplanned, but for which the parents cannot afford.  And yes, why is viagra covered by health insurance and contraceptives are not?  Just doesn\'t make sense.'),(868,'vickijocox@yahoo.com',1490,1334950800,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jo\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nWorking from my iPod... Forgive errors, plese.\r\n\r\nVasectomies are in the same category with tubal options, both covered by insurance.  Viagra is a whole different issue, and no company or taxpayer should be forced to pay for Viagra for another, IMO.\r\n\r\nThe Pill was covered by insurance at one time, as were many scrips now OTC.  No one was called a slut then, and they aren\'t now.  (There are those on both sides of the issue who cannot speak with respect.)  We let these changes slip by unnoticed and uncaring until we find out--too late--that it affects us, then cry \'foul\'.\r\n\r\nBeen enjoying sex for a long, long time, unimpeded by anyone.   I address this lopsided cultural thinking that men have the stronger sex drive when opportunity presents itself, and that they are unable to control their urges as if they are only animals without self-control or a brain, only a penis.  Both sexes are so much more than uncontrollable reproductive  organs.  I can\'t be boxed in, closed up, and shut down unless I give the key to someone else.  I hold my own key.  Why I am a political conservative, I have the right to my own key w/o being responsible for yours.\r\n\r\nThx for your response.  I have benefited from your pieces on living with an atheist.'),(869,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1491,1335034821,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tom lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you for your fine and inspiring piece, Ms. Eikenberry; it helped to stimulate a much needed and deeper look at areas I have ignored for a while.  The one and only test I see is where I remain agnostic, somewhat or deeply in doubt of God\'s mercy and love or ability to help.  Nothing outside of me can produce this effect, although I am usually sorely tempted to blame or put the onus on some person, place, thing, or situation.  Any rules or expectations I put on the world or God as to how both should act is most often where my trials and tribulations get their power.  I am not entitled to anything, for I already have abundance in the peace of Christ; getting the eyes to see that, of course, is the trick.\r\n\r\nIt has been my experience that “I am the architect of my own adversity.”  Perception is cause. All tribulations test my vision; it is an “I”-chart.  I know today that any time I am upset or wounded the source is in me, not out there. Reality is only in the heart; the life I get is there. I can only be a victim if I volunteer for it. But there is necessary suffering, and that is the realizations of where I have blocked the sunlight of the spirit, coming to see and walk through those wounds and defects that have limited His spirit. \r\n\r\nSorrow, for me, is not a trial or tribulation but a healing process of letting go of my attachments. In spirit and truth, all that can actually be taken from me or sacrificed by me is that which stands in the way of greater love and service. In effect, I can never lose anything of real value.\r\n\r\nAs you wisely noted in “the imagery of flourishing plants and trees,” God wants us to thrive, to be all that He gave us the potential to be through His Grace.  And, yes, your are so right: He has invited us all to a feast (but I too often clear that table for flowcharts, speadsheets, and arm wrestling) and the “good times” are the intended gift of placing ourselves in His care.  \r\n\r\nIt is in neither joy nor suffering that I get the motivation or necessary growth but with “the eyes to see” by the illumination of the Holy Spirit that “all things work for good for those who love God.”  And thanks to your surrender to His word, I get to rediscover this yet again.\r\n\r\nYours in Christ, Tom Lynch'),(870,'gaudiorrr@hotmail.com',1492,1335213491,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Gaudior\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\n@ Jo--\r\n\r\nIt sounds like you\'re not considering birth control to be part of medical care-- like you\'re thinking that because it relates to sex-for-pleasure (or even sex in general) it should be considered a recreational cost, not a medical one.  I disagree: birth control is something prescribed by a doctor to care for your physical body.  That places it within the sphere of the general debate about who should pay for health care, but no more than any other kind of health care.  No?'),(871,'richard.goulette@gmail.com',1493,1335284913,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Rich Goulette\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nChange your heart, change your actions!'),(872,'donnarowe@donnarowehealingblog.com',1496,1335309329,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Donna Rowe\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you for this wonderful article, even though this was written for Holy week, this can be lived each and every day in the present. Do you have other article or a book yet? If so I would be interested in knowing where to they are located on the web.'),(873,'anna@woofenden.net',1497,1335309565,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi AnnaWoofenden\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nHello Donna,\r\nThank you for your kind comment!  I agree, this work of noticing and naming the contradictions inside is ongoing. I keep finding things that point to it throughout scripture and life.  \r\nI do not have a book, yet... but I do strive to blog at least semi-regularly. You can find my work both here on provoketive and also at my personal website at: annawoofenden.com\r\nBlessings,\r\nAnna'),(874,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1495,1335339090,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi gerard lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nOops, came across this just a few minutes after I commented. I\'d be interested in what you think.\r\n\r\nDuty is a subterfuge of vanity.\r\n  \r\nThere are no shoulds in the kingdom of heaven, and that is where we are to reside in each moment...the everlasting Now.  Any moral or ethical demands we hold and act from in response to our neighbor, is not the Father doing the works; it is our understanding, effort, and judgment, for which we claim achievement.'),(875,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1494,1335339143,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi gerard lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThis is great.  Love how simply and directly you came to this insight. Our cheerfulness is the point, for that pleases God and frees us from ego.  And it takes no effort and therefore no boast. Wonderfully wrapped revelation!\r\n\r\nTo the usual or worldly way of thinking, any giving is a sacrifice and cannot be considered a virtue unless there is some personal cost as well as conditions, quid pro quo most often. Where is the giving if there is no loss or pain to some degree, thinketh the world? Then there is also, as you mentioned, giving out of duty, the “obligatory” tithe. But as it says in the Tao: Perfect kindness acts without thinking of kindness.  Or it is catchier in the lyrics song by Janis Joplin: It ain\'t nothin\' if it ain\'t free, babe.\r\n\r\nThe cheerfulness, for me, is that delight in God and life, a deep down gratitude in and joy of being, that has everything needed for others in endless supply, the giving more like spillage from an overflowing cup.'),(876,'jb@thriven.org',1498,1335339365,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jonathan Brink\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI\'m not quite sure I understand.  Duty for me is an external story, and is sometimes independent of the person involved.  I think love finds a win/win for each involved.'),(877,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1499,1335361588,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tom lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\n\"...external story...independent of the person involved.\"\r\nSorry, I do not follow what you mean. Perhaps, then, I should try to explain what I mean. \r\nFor me, love has no duty, in the usual way we think of duty: \"conduct due to superiors; obligatory tasks.\"  Love always acts naturally for the ultimate well-being of others as is suited in the moment. Duty can overlook what is best for a perceived rightness of action. Duty comes from our understanding and effort.\r\nHowever, in the Process of Spiritual Maturation, Duty is crucial in first half of life business and detrimental in second half of life freedom.'),(878,'jb@thriven.org',1500,1335366792,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jonathan Brink\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nTom, you\'ve said the said thing a different way.  An outside authority determines what\'s right.'),(879,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1501,1335376789,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi gerard lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nJonathan, I guess I get easily confused. I said the same thing a different way to help clarify, in response to your saying that you were not quite sure you understood. \r\n\r\n\"An outside authority determines what’s right.\": are you saying that this statement is my point, simply restated? If so, then I have not been clear.'),(880,'jb@thriven.org',1502,1335388364,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jonathan Brink\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nTom, what I\'m trying to say is that when our motivations begin outside of us, or \"external\" we instinctively rebel against them, because we are called to be free.  Love begins with a choice, not a demand.'),(881,'jmdeeb@gmail.com',1503,1335410428,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi JM\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nJesus wasn\'t interested in politics.  He was interested in people.  How do you get involved without politics? Easy- get involved without politics.  It isn\'t political to feed the homeless.  It isn\'t political to volunteer.  Jesus didn\'t speak out against the reigning Roman government or demand they feed the hungry people. No- He fed the people. He healed the people- and he asked his disciples to do the same.  He was the one who told Peter to put away his sword when the \"government\" came to take him away.  \r\nIts great that churches are non-profit and tax exempt- it gives them more money to do more good.  Each person and church is still responsible to God to use that money as God would lead.  No one should ever give to a church for the tax benefit.  That isn\'t what it\'s all about.'),(882,'gillian@rcn.com',1504,1335457632,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Gillian Marchenko\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nPowerful! Thank you Kim!'),(883,'jb@thriven.org',1506,1335463661,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jonathan Brink\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nPaula, you bring up some really great points.'),(884,'paula@fether.net',1505,1335463661,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Paula\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nMany excellent comments above. I\'d just like to add some (generic) thoughts:\r\n\r\nThe question was asked, what is the point of gender then? Of course at the very least it\'s reproduction. But to ask beyond that is to mistake personality differences for gender differences. In other words, why not ask what is the point of personality? There are easily more differences among men and among women than between them, especially considering a wide variety of cultures through history. Isn\'t it possible that, in some cases, people were driven to homosexuality because they didn\'t act the way their society demanded for the body they were born in? The irony surely escapes those who insist upon strict gender roles.\r\n\r\nThe undeniable fact is that not all men are good leaders/protectors, and not all women are good mothers/nurturers. And whether two people share an intimate bond has more to do with how they \"complement\" each other than how well they play contrived \"roles\"-- as if one\'s flesh is not an intrinsic part of their identity and can be changed as an actor would play a different role in a different film. \r\n\r\nBut we really need to ask ourselves: if we long ago gave up arguing about whether blacks should have the same \"roles\" as whites, why do we still argue about whether women should have the same \"roles\" as men? If the flesh is not what God values most or bases gifts upon, then the kind of flesh is irrelevant. And if the equality of blacks did not make whites less white, surely the equality of women does not make men less manly. To even ask the question \"what about women in the church?\" is to betray a flawed foundation; it need not be asked at all. \r\n\r\nWomen are not to politely ask for a place at the adults\' table but to \"come boldly to the throne of grace\", through the \"curtain torn in two\", and take the seats bought for us by the blood of the Lamb. \"When one part of the Body suffers, the other parts suffer with it.\"'),(885,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1507,1335469432,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi gerard lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nJonathan, funny, that\'s exactly what I was saying.'),(886,'kim@kimvanbrunt.com',1508,1335472670,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Kim Van Brunt\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks Gillian.'),(887,'ayim80@gmail.com',1509,1335480957,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi MiCoBa\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks so much for this article.'),(888,'paula@fether.net',1511,1335497155,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Paula\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nA refreshingly irenic article and good comments.\r\n\r\nBut I think it needs to be emphasized that the whole focus on \"roles\" is misplaced in the Body of Christ. The various parts are all of one substance, one Body, and while the parts are many and varied, none of them reports to another but only to the one Head. The eye does not need permission from the hand, and the nose cannot be the decision-maker for the foot. Being gift-focused rather than flesh- or role-focused is how this Body was designed. This cooperative model is starkly contrasted with the world\'s chain of command.\r\n\r\nBut putting the focus on roles tends to create something I call \"benevolent lording over\"; people redefine \"lording over\" into \"serving\" as long as it\'s benevolent. But the question should not be *how* one person holds the trump card, but *whether* they hold it. It also elevates the flesh to the position of greatest importance, since only the flesh and nothing else is what determines who holds that trump card. \r\n\r\nIn addition, even if this is all done very nicely and amicably, one is hard-pressed to explain how it differs in practice from egalitarian relationships. How does \"designated tie-breaker/spiritual leader\" taking his wife\'s advice look or function differently from just letting the most gifted or convicted person lead depending on the situation? It seems to me that we put a cardboard crown on the head of the man and call it his spiritual leadership role when in reality the wife is actually leading at the moment. It\'s like the mystical \"covering\" many believe a pastor holds over a congregation; somehow, magically, if a pastor declares that a woman is under his \"covering\", she may be allowed to stand behind the sacred pulpit and actually teach, preach, or prophesy.\r\n\r\nI think all of this effort to retain the language of exclusive male leadership while practicing shared leadership is sincere but not quite honest, for lack of a better term. It could be described as \"double-minded\", not by intent but by default. We know deep inside that to be truly equal we cannot use the flesh as a criterion for leadership, yet we often find it difficult to break with deep-seated traditional roles or perhaps misunderstand the Biblical teaching on the matter, so we try to fit these two conflicting principles together like jigsaw puzzle pieces that don\'t quite match.\r\n\r\nPersonally, I see the scriptures teaching absolute functional and ontological equality, so I have no conflict to wrestle with. My husband of over 20 years and I have truly complemented each other, deferring when the other is best qualified and leading when the other needs us to. I stayed home to raise our kids because I wanted to and my husband\'s job could support us. Yet I am the lifelong Bible student and better qualified to lead in spiritual matters. He is no less of a man or a Christian for submitting to my spiritual leadership, and I am no less of a woman or a Christian for submitting to his provision of our physical needs.'),(889,'kim@kimvanbrunt.com',1512,1335497998,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Kim Van Brunt\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks so much, Kristina! Great to see you here.'),(890,'kristinapetrella@yahoo.com',1510,1335497999,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Kristina\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nWow, Kim.  Thank you for this perspective.  It so resonates with me.  Thank you again.'),(891,'addiezierman@gmail.com',1513,1335535961,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Addie Zierman\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThis was beautiful, Kim. Found this line so compelling: \"Any adoption involves such staggering fundamental loss...and that loss is part of me too.\"'),(892,'jedd.medefind@gmail.com',1515,1335638661,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jedd Medefind\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThis is such an important theme to emphasize, especially among those focused exclusively on the redemptive aspects of adoption.  The wisdom Kim expresses is the reason so many excellent Christian organizations pour such vast resources into things like community development, water projects, family medical care, and an array of other initiatives that help preserve the lives of parents and keep struggling families together.   This is all vital (and, full disclosure, I also serve on the board of a microfinance organizations that advances this vision, too.)  Even so, it may not be best to conclude that \"the first half of the story is where our focus should be.\"   Christians are called to both:  preserving families AND caring for orphans.  And despite our best efforts on the \"first half,\" there will still always be orphans.  While we must continue to pour investment and effort into \"the first half,\" we also have a clear mandate to be the first to stand up for the world\'s orphans as well--whether helping them find a home with local families or via inter-country adoption or other means of care.');
INSERT INTO `wp_tml_log` VALUES (893,'beyerbe@comcast.net',1514,1335638742,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi liz\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI am very late to this discussion and I think that many have made great points. Johnathan, I appreciated that you \"wondered what it would be like to be a women in a male dominated society.\" I can’t say I have ever had a man ask me that, but here are some things that came to my mind immediately.\r\n•	It isn’t much fun.\r\n•	It means hearing/learning about male (exclusively) heroes/movers-and-shakers in cultural and biblical history. But then when you emulate those heroes, you are criticized and condemned for being “too masculine,” “assertive,” “loud,” “bossy,” “usurping what doesn’t belong to you”—as though courage and faith that is expressed through teaching, exhortation, prophecy, and evangelism are male traits. I honestly don’t ever remember learning about any women leaders in world history until I was in high school (although there were, in fact, many) and certainly I never heard about women heroes of the Bible preached in church (except for Mary). I grew up literally thinking that there were none.\r\n•	It means living your entire life hearing things like “mankind” and “man” instead of “humankind” or “humanity”; or “you run like a girl” (obviously bad) or “don’t be such a cry baby” (even worse) and you quickly absorb the concept that  males are representative of all humankind. So maleness becomes the measure or plumb line for what is excellent or preferable. And you measure yourself by that plumb line to see if you pass or fail.\r\n•	It means living your life hiding your true self in order to keep up the appearance of being acceptably “feminine”—whatever that means. I still don’t know what that means. I am a woman, but I don’t often think of myself as a woman, but rather as a human being. It is not until I have done or said something that doesn’t fit the definition of feminine, and I receive push-back against it, that I realize that I have stepped outside the boundaries. But, I am female, so who has the right to define what is feminine? Shouldn’t it be females? I am simply who I am.\r\nOnce, a male friend of mine made the comment that I “think like a man.” It had never occurred to me whether or not I thought like a man or a woman. (I didn’t know what to think of that—whether I should fell complimented or insulted. I think he was simply surprised).\r\n•	It means at times having a deep sense of shame for being female, because many of the things that are stereotypically female are not valued.\r\n•	It means having people not take you seriously, or treat you like a child, because “what can a woman contribute that is of value?”\r\nThese are the things that came to mind immediately. I am sure that if I thought longer, I could think of more.\r\n\r\nI am glad that some are willing to have this conversation.'),(894,'anna@woofenden.net',1516,1335750394,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi AnnaWoofenden\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nKim,\r\nThank you for this post. It moved me deeply and speaks so clearly and powerfully.  I have a deep love for adoption and hope it will be part of forming my family when that time comes. Your story is such a reminder to me of how that love of caring for children goes far beyond the ones we get to snuggle and bond with. It also holds up accountability about one\'s own motivations and ability to engage in the reality of painful situations. I appreciate you naming the loss and the injustice alongside the precious gifts of adoption.\r\nBlessings on your work in the world,\r\nAnna'),(895,'aleikenberry@yahoo.com',1517,1335801929,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Austin\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI agree with what you\'re saying... Satan should not have as much prominence as God, that\'s clear. The focus the conventional teaching has had essentially equates satan and God in the life of the believer. A challenge between the force of evil as represented by Satan, and the force of good as represented by the Holy Spirit.\r\n\r\nClearly, too much credit is given to the tempter and not enough to the temptation. Satan only has power because we are tempted to sin. We only lose when we sin. Satan can\'t make us lose and God doesn\'t make us win. God empowers us with the Holy Spirit and Satan whispers temptations, but ultimately we are free moral agents. That is the beauty of practical Christianity. There is an all-powerful diety that allows us to act. There is a powerful, but less powerful tempter that is incapable of forcing us to act. The balance allows for us to freely act and freely love. Ultimately, our actions are our responsibility.'),(896,'bluegrassrambling@gmail.com',1518,1335802317,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi David Henson\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks for the comment. Not to argue, but to push the conversation. What category of being/entity would you place Satan? Human? Demigod? Spirit-being? God? I\'m honestly curious, because it strikes me that most of those (Demigod, Spirit-being, god) argues against monotheism rather than buttressing the claim. The dualism created here is still God and Satan fighting over humans in a spiritual battle, and that doesn\'t seem like a monotheism (if we pull back our theological qualifiers and justifications). We still have, in this configuration, two very powerful deities who for all of human history have yet to defeat the other completely.'),(897,'paigemarshall22@gmail.com',1520,1335808330,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi cpm\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nYeah, I\'d like to know when Balaam\'s \"satan\" (who happened to be the Angel of the Lord doing God\'s bidding) turned against God? And I do remember a prominent NT epistle reminding us that we our tempted by what is inside us, not outside.'),(898,'selkie55@yahoo.com',1521,1335808331,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Heidi M.\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI was always taught that Lucifer was just an archangel, albeit a fallen one. So it always puzzled me as to why people who claimed to have much greater religious and biblical knowledge than I did, gave Satan/Lucifer credit for so much power. I would say, \"But he\'s not God. He was created by God.\" And I would just get the \"tut-tuts\" that I didn\'t understand. \r\n\r\nBut I think you\'ve hit the nail on the head in this post. WE are responsible for the troubles in the world. And that\'s a hard thing for many to admit. So, they invent the \"boogeyman\" and imbue him with a great deal of power. Like witchcraft accusations on a much larger scale.'),(899,'sasschristine@yahoo.com',1522,1335808926,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Christie\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nWhat a truly insightful and thought-provoking post.   I am not a Christian, but I was raised a Catholic and am very familiar with this mentality.  I think that this portrayal of religion has been the source of many people withdrawing.  Thank you for posting this and getting the message out there that religion does not need to be about fear, but about love.  Well said.'),(900,'zekegperez@aol.com',1523,1335811658,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ezekiel\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI also agree that some peoples god is TOO small and their devil TOO big. However I am curious about all of this \"hell does not exist\" discussion, and now neither does the devil?\r\nWhat about the times Jesus spoke of Satan? In speaking to Peter He said \"get behind me satan\"\r\nHe was in the wilderness being tempted by the devil and actually spoke to him. And finally, what about the parable of the goats and the sheep? Jesus said the goats would go into the \"lake of eternal fire reserved for the devil and all of his angels\" , no?'),(901,'bluegrassrambling@gmail.com',1524,1335812030,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi David Henson\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI think that is a discussion for a different post, as this one does not argue that Satan does not exist (I confess my own leanings but do not argue the position thoroughly) nor do I challenge the existence of a literal hell.\r\n\r\nWhat I am arguing in this post is that the figure of Satan, as it functions and it has been thought of in traditional Christianity, confounds Christian claims to monotheism and is itself fundamentally heretical because of this. \r\n\r\nLet\'s keep the conversation, as best we can, to this. I am not trying to dismiss your comments, but it\'s difficult to spend an entire post arguing one way only to have it switched. If we were discussing your questions, I would have written a different post! :) We can exegete passages on \"the satan\" (literally \"the adversary\") later and what Jesus meant by those passages. (Was he using the satan as a metaphor for Peter being an adversary — the literal definition of the Satan — in obstructing his decision to die on the cross? And questions of the like are enough for exploration on their own)\r\n\r\nI welcome your thoughts on whether the figure of Satan comports with monotheism and how to reconcile monotheism with the notion that two supernatural beings are locked in eternal battle — neither having definitively defeated the other as both, as traditional Christianity understands it, are still warring.'),(902,'covenant@covenantoflove.net',1525,1335813370,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Derek\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nWell, I see why you call your blog \"provoketive\". :)\r\n\r\nDavid, you strike me as a smart guy. So I\'m going to be blunt: Aren\'t we the kettle calling the pot black when we admit, \"Now, to be clear, I don’t believe that a being called Satan exists.\"\r\n\r\nFor starters, if the church has always believed that a being called the Satan existed - and it has! - than that is orthodoxy. To say that you don\'t believe that a being called Satan exists is to admit that <i>you</i> have strayed from Church orthodoxy, not the other way around. Now if you wish to establish your own orthodoxy, well that\'s all fine and dandy. \r\n\r\nSecondly, and this is where I appeal to your good sense and smarts, this blog article has fundamentally confused the Church orthodox belief in the Satan with a dualism of sorts. Sure the Church has run amuck at times with colourful depictions and fantastic images of the Satan, particularly in the Medieval period and in some branches of radical charismatic wings in our own day. And yes, <i>at times the Church has fallen into a kind of dualism</i>, <b>but that is not the orthodox Christian understanding of the Satan</b>.\r\n\r\nSo, in conclusion, this post is not well reasoned. Sorry. Oh, and it seems to me that your views have been shaped, in large part, by bad teaching regarding atonement, Satan and God. Sorry for that too. :-('),(903,'vomhagen@gmx.net',1519,1335813571,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ulrich\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks to both of you for the provoking article as well as the insightful comment. \r\n\r\nI think Austin hints us in the right direction when he points to the role of the holy spirit as a counter-balance to Satan. God allows us to be free and burdens us with the gift of freedom. Satan doesn\'t have power over us untill we allow it, while God is almighty but is certainly not the type of deity that intervenes when we make mistakes. Satan actually represents us humans if and when we try to be like God. Satan, the devil, and whatever name we have for the dark powers seems to me like a a real force, perhaps even a real spectre, but is certainly not a deity -- even though it would seem to many Non-Christians due to the laissez-faire way some of us Christians use Satan as an excuse for their lack of self-discipline and insight into Jesus\' teachings.'),(904,'bluegrassrambling@gmail.com',1526,1335814201,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi David Henson\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThe name of the magazine isn\'t my creation. I\'m just writing for it. \r\n\r\nI completely agree that the orthodox Christian belief is one of a literal Satan. This entire post is based on that premise. My argument is that this orthodox belief confounds the other central orthodox belief claim of monotheism. So arguing from your point is a nonstarter, because I concede that point. My point is that these orthodox beliefs are internally inconsistent. Perhaps you see the reasoning now?\r\n\r\nMy point is that this Christian belief in Satan — which is rampant throughout Christianity — has created this exact dualism you rightly disagree with. To say that it has at times run amuck is a vast, vast understatement. American evangelicalism is a primary culprit as well as medieval Christianity. This is not some ancient problem to ignore or snicker about. This is a very modern, very real, very widespread force within Christianity and not just in Anglo worlds. Pentecostalism, in case you are unaware, is the fastest-growing segment of the faith and this belief is particularly widespread in that perspective.  \r\n\r\nI\'m still waiting for dissenters to engage the post on its own merits and argument — that the being called Satan functions as a god — an eternal supernatural being with powers to influence humanity for its own purposes. In any other religious scheme, we would as Christians rightly call this a dualism and condemn as heretical. We just have  our own blinders on to our own inconsistencies.\r\n\r\nGiven the general disrespectful tone of your comment, however, I seem to have off-put you. What we call admitting our own bias in the field of theology is called honesty, or locating oneself. (It gives people an opportunity to dismiss arguments that make them uncomfortable based on personal reasons rather than actual reason.)'),(905,'kim@kimvanbrunt.com',1527,1335815196,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Kim Van Brunt\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks for reading and taking time to comment, Jedd. I do agree with you that both are important, but I\'m wondering whether you\'ve observed that the Christian community is too focused on adoption-as-gospel and not enough on trying to help solve the problems that make a child available for adoption. It\'s an impression I have, with an admittedly narrow range of experience. (Or if they are helping with global poverty/AIDS/clean water AND adoption, sometimes they don\'t connect the fact that one feeds the other.) \r\n\r\nI suppose this post was directed at those who have a one-dimensional view of adoption -- those who aren\'t also helping with clean water, microfinance, education and maternal health efforts, and/or those who think that inter-country adoption is preferable to extended family care or even growing up in poverty (and you clearly aren\'t in that category!). \r\n\r\nThank you, truly, for giving me some things to think about re: how I frame the discussion, and about my assumptions about the community at large.'),(906,'kim@kimvanbrunt.com',1528,1335815354,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Kim Van Brunt\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nYes, thank you Anna. It\'s very much about going beyond our little families and the sense of responsibility I feel to my son and to the world, now with what I\'ve seen and what I know. Adoption is an incredible gift that comes at such a great cost, and I never want to gloss over what it\'s cost my son. Thanks so much for your encouragement! Blessings.'),(907,'bluegrassrambling@gmail.com',1529,1335816981,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi David Henson\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks Ulrich. I am bothered somewhat by your description of how Satan represents humans when we try to be like God as it seems to contradict the Orthodox notion of theosis. I thought the point of the Chistian life was to become more and more like God.\r\n\r\nIf the Holy Spirit is a counterbalance to Satan, then we have implicitly equated Satan with the third person of the Trinity (ie God). \r\n\r\nI don\'t see a way around the unhinging of Christian monotheism when it comes to its belief in Satan (even that phrase -- belief in Satan belies language we usually reserve for God.\r\n\r\nNow, if Satan is the name we give to evil, then you and I agree as I mentioned in the post vis a vis the personification of evil.'),(908,'vomhagen@gmx.net',1530,1335818348,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ulrich\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nDavid, I agree with your criticism of the thinking and teachings of some Christian groups re. the devil, but wish you were more specific. It is certainly not true that \"Christianity\" indirectly belives in two deities; if you\'re under this impression then you focus might be to much directed on current Evangelical churches in the USA, e.g. Pentacostals. BTW, most Christians in the Middle Ages where in many ways less  fanatical then some Christian groups today, because they still lived in a daily basis in and with God\'s creation, nature and that there are angels; Lucifer was just an angel gone bad. Nature involved our reason as a part of itself, but was not dependent on that reason for most of its operations. They were part of that ordered natural goodness before modernity set in. Before human hubris set in. In this sense Lucifer reminds me very much of the modern man. \r\nPerhaps it would be worth deliberating how an angel like Lucifer can become greedy and ready to push away the creator.'),(909,'bluegrassrambling@gmail.com',1531,1335821511,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi David Henson\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI don\'t think this is an issue only for the U.S., particularly as the majority of Christians are no longer Americans or even Anglos. And Pentecostalism is the fastest-growing segment of Christianity worldwide and this belief in a dualistic Satan is quite popular.\r\n\r\nFurther, I would say that *any* Christian would not admit they believe in two deities. What I am arguing is that Christianity, based on how it has theologically created the figure of Satan, implicitly does. Christianity does express Satan as a fallen angel, based on one enigmatic, if not problematic text, if I\'m not mistaken. What I am saying that Christian belief in a literal Satan functions and imbues Satan with qualities that in any objective observer would say resembles a god and would argue against Christian claims to monotheism. \r\n\r\nAny Christian belief in a literal Satan in which Satan is an eternal, supernatural being  who tries to woo humanity to its side, just as God does, is fundamentally at odds with claims to monotheism. Because a supernatural, eternal being seem to be qualities one would reserve for a god, particularly one that is evil and at odds with the good God. \r\n\r\nFurther, the popularity and historic use of Satan reveals there is more to this figure than meets the eye. Elaine Pagels\' book Origins of Satan is particularly engaging on this subject.\r\n\r\nNow we can use Lucifer and the tale of Satan falling from heaven as a metaphorical myth for human hubris. I\'m fine with that. The problem is when we transpose the meaning of that tale for a literal reality.'),(910,'bluegrassrambling@gmail.com',1534,1335839465,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi David Henson\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThat is certainly an interesting thought.'),(911,'joseph@deruvophotography.com',1535,1335839846,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Joseph\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nMy thought Intresting? \r\nNo! \r\nRather I believe it to be a very Intresting God :-)'),(912,'vomhagen@gmx.net',1536,1335877609,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ulrich\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nYour earlier reply got me thinking over night and talking this morning. \r\nYou referred to the notion of theosis and wrote: \"I thought the point of the Chistian life was to become more and more like God.\" Well, which God? The father, the son, or the Holy Spirit, or all together? That\'s the issue. The problem is that many Christians including me use God and the father in an inter-exchangeable fashion. So, my reference was to God the Father and Lucifer’s aka our attempt to replace him. When I referred to the Holy Spirit as a counter-power to Satan then out of an economical perspective on the Trinity where there is a hierarchy and the Father is at its top. I guess there are other interpretations of the Trinity especially for Evangelicals like the Pentecostals. These differences might be the reason for many of the misunderstandings among today’s Christians. \r\nMost importantly, however it should be emphasized that Christianity needs to understand that the victory of God over fear, sin and death, accomplished in the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus is the significant development from Old to New Testament. The holy life of a Christian, given in Jesus Christ to the believer through the Holy Spirit, is expressed through the struggles of this life, increasing in the experience of knowledge of God, and consummated in the resurrection of the believer. Well, I might be preaching to the choir – like so often. I cannot wait for your deconstruction of Trinity.'),(913,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1537,1335883183,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tom lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nIt might be telling that this article evoked (provoked?) the most comments I have seen in such a short time. \r\nI see a lot more damage coming from this belief of Satan as the tempter and deceiver than has been thus far mentioned. Putting the \"real\" problem outside of us, and also as a supernatural force of great influence, there is no descent into hell, the necessary suffering that comes with opening, truly opening, to sanctification: confronting our character defects, shortcomings, and harm done. I feel I must be convinced that anytime I am disturbed or tempted, it has to do with a sin-causing agent buried within. Most of these \"agents\" are unhealed wounds bandaged by blame; they instead need to be cleaned by spirit. Resisting the Evil One sets me up to ignore healing in exchange for heroic battle. As fear seems a greater inducement than love, we much prefer to fight fit than to submit. It is not in \"the knowledge of good and evil\" I find the freedom of truth but in the tree of life, surrendering to Christ. And that is not for the strength to resist but to persist in healing grace.\r\nSatan makes us, in a way, a perpetual victim. In spirit and truth, there are no victims.\r\n\r\nThank you for this article, David, it is a blessing. It is curious that this has been on my mind lately. Paul writes that the angels of darkness must disguise themselves as the angels of light.  Such an \"angel of light\" is my survival: of image, sanctity, righteousness, mortal being, financial security, reputation, control, certainty, and a host of other things. All this must be surrendered.'),(914,'pamhogeweide@gmail.com',1538,1335895506,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Pam Hogeweide\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks for this great report Alise.  I know some of the folks involved with this conference and Dan had hoped I was able to travel to it. Too far from my Oregon home!\r\n\r\nI look forward to part two!'),(915,'bluegrassrambling@gmail.com',1539,1335899558,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi David Henson\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI know this is going to be an ironic statement, but the hierarchal view of the Trinity has been rejected by Christianity since Augustine, I believe. Not to say you couldn\'t support it from the Scriptures, which you probably could. Just not from the historic tradition. The question of \"which God\" in reference to the Trinity is equally confounding to claims to monotheism because it essentially makes the Trinity into three gods. When I say to be more like God, I am referring to God, which Christianity believes is Trinity. Maybe I\'ve misunderstood you here. The Trinity is a profound metaphor for understanding God, not necessarily a literal reality (IMO). But more on that in a different post!'),(916,'richard.goulette@gmail.com',1540,1335899897,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Rich Goulette\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nDavid, \r\n\r\nMy understanding of a dualistic view is two opposing forces(light and darkness, good and evil, etc., ala Zoarastrianism, Manicheism, et. al) in eternity going at it.  I think it\'s pretty clear that God is creator (transcendent and uncaused) and Satan is not (forced immanence after the rebellion and created) and Scripture says he will be defeated.  Truly, though, even though Jesus\' victory over death on the cross still leaves us with pain and suffering in this present world, most Christ-followers I know attribute this pain and suffering to The World, our flesh, and Satan, with Satan being just one of the problems that lead us astray from following Christ to the fullest.  So yes, \"the blood is on our hands,\" we long to please ourselves, gratify these things, and we want to get ahead and desire the temporal pleasures this world has to offer.  And their are days when we\'re leaving Church and snap back in anger at our children or flip of someone who cuts us off, just as we\'re leaving the parking lot!  (influence of the accuser)'),(917,'vomhagen@gmx.net',1541,1335901488,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ulrich\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nIn the Western tradition Anglicans, Lutherans, and Roman Catholics follow the hierarchical concept of Trinity. Each person has different roles within the Godhead and each has different roles in relationship to the world, but it is obvious and I actually think the old traditional perception that it was not the Son who sent the Father and it is not said that the Son or the Holy Spirit chose us, predestined us, and gave us to the Father. I don\'t mean to sound smart. \r\nMaybe your denominational tradition emphasizes the teaching concerning the Trinity that all three persons within the Godhead are equal in nature, essence, and attributes. It would be interesting how the economical and the ontological concept of Trinity result in different understanding of Christianity.'),(918,'jim@jimhendersonpresents.com',1542,1335903241,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jim Henderson\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI noticed you working hard in the back of the room. Now I know what you were doing:-) \r\n\r\nThanks Alise, this will be very helpful for my friends to read so they can \"get\" what we were all up to in Chicagoland last weekend'),(919,'elizabeth@chapin.com',1544,1335904140,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Elizabeth Chapin\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI couldn\'t agree more, \"Problems arise when there is dishonesty.\" Some of my deepest cross-gender friendships arose out of such honesty - there came a point when we had to discuss our attraction and decide what to do about it. Such honesty led to deeper friendship. Wish I could have been at the gathering...'),(920,'gregcindyholman@comcast.net',1543,1335904143,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Cindy Holman\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nGreat job, Alise!  Looking forward to hearing more!'),(921,'JohnA1949@gmail.com',1545,1335904143,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi John H. Armstrong\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI concur with Jim Henderson. This is a wonderfully descriptive account of our 24-hour conference in Chicago. I was pleased to share in it and to learn and grow by being a part of a relational gathering focused on what it really means to form deep friendships with brothers and sisters in Christ. \r\n\r\nLooking forward to the next part of your report. Bravo!'),(922,'damannion@yahoo.com',1546,1335905164,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Doreen Mannion\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks so much for capturing this, Alise.'),(923,'bluegrassrambling@gmail.com',1547,1335911388,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi David Henson\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThe flow of our conversation about hierarchy within the Trinity here seems to imply a certain subordinationism which was condemned in the 4th century (Arius) and is a primary reason the Nicene Creed was formed. Roman Catholics, Lutherans and Anglicans do not subscribe to a subordinated view of the Holy Spirit and Son. Now, if you want to say their are different functions, then sure. But when we pair the Holy Spirit as a counterbalance to Satan we are speaking of the Holy Spirit as \"God from God, in essence a direct rival being to God. \r\n\r\nOf course now we\'re back to the filioque controversy I suppose.'),(924,'bluegrassrambling@gmail.com',1548,1335911919,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi David Henson\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nAlso, wasn\'t it Jesus who said we are to be perfect as his heavenly Father is perfect and that he and the Father are one? \r\n\r\nI\'m waiting for someone to point out the irony of us arguing the orthodox roles of the Trinity on a post which denies the existence of a literal Satan! :)'),(925,'joseph@deruvophotography.com',1549,1335913716,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi joseph\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nYou will forgive me for commenting in the face of all those that are so learned.\r\nBut I will Trust that God reveals Himself to all.\r\nIt is the deception of Satan himself to attribute any power to him, he possess no power other than that which one surrenders to him!\r\nHis power is in his lies and deception, temptation it\'s self but no real power.\r\nAnd as far as all the discussion of the Trinity I believe it is missing the point\r\nIt was God\'s desire and the Prayer of Christ himself that we should all be One as God The Father and he were One.\r\nIt is not a Trinity but an Infinity that we should be working towards\r\nThe Oneness that we attribute to the Trinity is available to all through the Perfecting Love of Christ.\r\nThis is the relationship that God seeks from us all and that He had created us for.\r\nGod Bless\r\nJoseph'),(926,'sbrennan1984@comcast.net',1550,1335917821,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Sheila Brennan\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nGreat job, Alise! Thank you for joining us.'),(927,'rayrayc17@live.com',1551,1335920402,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nWoo hoo! Theological argument! I\'ll throw my .02 in. And in this economy, two pennies aren\'t worth much except to rub together, and I can\'t promise my. Immense will be worth much more. \r\n\r\nDavid, I\'m pretty sure I get what you\'re trying to say. I also understand the reaction you have gotten from other posters. But I\'ll just comment on your argument and my experiences as a Southern Baptist. \r\n\r\nI know a very influential Baptist seminary leader who said he got saved when he was very young. He said he heard a sermon on the lake of fire and went forward to get saved because he couldn\'t swim. That always took me aback. \r\n\r\nI\'m also very disturbed by dispensational theology which greatly promotes the idea you are talking about. The idea that Satan is bigger than life, ala Frank Peretti novels, and our only hope is a bloody battle one day at Armageddon. \r\n\r\nI always like to go back to the book of Job where we see Satan talking to God about Job. He claims that the only reason Job serves him is because he\'s blessed him so greatly. Satan has to ask to do any harm to Job\'s stuff. And he has to ask nicely. \r\n\r\nEither God is in sovereign control or he isn\'t. There\'s no reason to elevate a created being to scary Halloween status when God has him under his thumb. When Paul talked of the messenger sent by Satan, he didn\'t show fear of Satan, he just prayed to God to remove it/him. Paul knew the score. He didn\'t worry about Satan, he went straight to the one in control. \r\n\r\nSo there it is. Two cents. Maybe four. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and being open.'),(928,'rayrayc17@live.com',1552,1335920455,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nStupid autocorrect.'),(929,'taithome@bigpond.net.au',1554,1335961931,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Lynne\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks. This is much appreciated from another who couldn\'t make it -- Australia is just a bit far!'),(930,'karin@anduril.ca',1553,1335961933,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Karin\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\n\"We feel attraction in all friendships – it’s simply the desire to be with that other person.\" Thank you for this post! Much appreciated!'),(931,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1556,1335970039,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tom lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nMy understanding on this topic may not be substantially different than yours, Christine, but I need to phrase it as I have come to understand it.\r\n\r\nDifferent writers phrase it differently but I have found saying the Personal Self (PS, which is usually called the \"false self\" or First Half of life persona) and the Infinite Self (IS, \"true self\" or Second Half of life discovery of essence) make for the defining difference between religion and spirituality; it is the discernment between soul and spirit, the finite and the eternal. Both appear crucial in the process of liberation that is the end of truth. Put another way, we first need to conformto -give our effort and be invested in--the patterns of this world and then to release from those patterns.\r\nWe may call it a continuum yet it is by no means a natural one; the fully developed ego does not necessarily continue its maturity to \"become as a little child.\" What works in the First Half of life is counter-productive to the Second Half of life. What works in the Second Half of life looks dangerous, heretical, or insane to those in the First half of life.\r\nTo the PS, what is believed is of the utmost importance; to the IS, it is how one believes that takes primacy.\r\nPerhaps I should not have started this now. I need to run and I feel I have only laid the groundwork to confusion. If this makes any sense to you or if you can find something upon which a discussion can arise, please let me know. God bless.'),(932,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1557,1335970926,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tom lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThe article, to my understanding, is not about whether Satan exists or not (despite the author\'s suggestion of the non-existence) but the role Satan plays in faith. On this count, I feel what he says is spot on.\r\nLucifer makes light out of what is dark and makes dark what is light. Love alone, not theology or Reason, distinguishes the differences, discerns soul from spirit. Listening to David unarmed, with nonjudgmental awareness, will help clear up the debate.'),(933,'sasschristine@yahoo.com',1558,1335977313,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Christine Organ\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you for reading and commenting, Tom.  You offer a fascinating perspective.'),(934,'jim@jimhendersonpresents.com',1559,1336056178,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jim Henderson\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nAlise\r\n\r\nThank you for focusing so much of your time at the conference on documenting the event for others. This is powerfully written.'),(935,'marisaaud@gmail.com',1560,1336067739,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Marisa Aud\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nBeautiful Jordan,  I appreciate your honest and cautionary words.  \r\nThank you!'),(936,'communicatingblog@gmail.com',1561,1336070215,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Marilyn Gardner\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nGreat article - I love the way you have painted a picture of \"shades of truth\". I\'ve thought about this a lot and like that word picture. I\'ve heard a great deal about the book as well and also made the decision not to read it. I think one of the areas that I am increasingly troubled about is our idolizing of sex. It seemingly carries far more weight in relationships than was ever intended yet to verbalize this one can be labeled as puritanical. Much more for a longer conversation but thank you for this.'),(937,'shawnandcrys@gmail.com',1562,1336073516,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Crystal-Gayle Mandoli\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nGreat Article Jordan!'),(938,'jordanhageman@gmail.com',1563,1336073540,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jordan Hageman\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks, Marissa!'),(939,'jordanhageman@gmail.com',1565,1336073872,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jordan Hageman\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks, Crystal!'),(940,'jordanhageman@gmail.com',1564,1336073872,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jordan Hageman\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nMarilyn, thanks for your comment. I feel sex is a very important part of a relationship but when we start bringing other people into it (through pornography of graphic books) we are making it into something God did not intend. It should be an expression and celebration of your desire and love for EACH OTHER not other people.'),(941,'katherine.m.becker@gmail.com',1566,1336085892,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Katherine\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\n\"The lost apologetic is to love one another\". \r\n\r\nWhat a beautifully succinct and profound statement! And how true it is. I keep thinking about how the church can follow the apologetics of love in all aspects of its life and what that would look like--and surely the flourishing of friendship of all kinds would be a part.'),(942,'ms_jenny_girl@yahoo.com',1567,1336104856,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi CassandraToday\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nSatan is a dandy metaphor, but I agree that the problem comes in when you try to make him a real being, and the polar opposite being to God at that.\r\n\r\nLight exists, but not darkness. Darkness is just the absence of light.\r\nSound exists, but not silence. Silence is just the absence of sound.\r\nHeat exists, but not cold, and so forth.\r\n\r\nThe fact that we can conceive of the utter absence of grace, forgiveness, and love does not mean that there is a real being characterized by those absences, any more than darkness, silence, or cold are real beings. Our conception of those absences does, though, explain our creation of a metaphor. And as is so often the case, we choose an anthropomorphic being as the image, the symbol, in the metaphor.'),(943,'ms_jenny_girl@yahoo.com',1568,1336104876,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi CassandraToday\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nOh, poo. I forgot to click \"notify me of follow-ups\" on the previous comment. I\'ll click it on this one so I can continue to follow the conversation. :)'),(944,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1569,1336267464,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tom lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nonderful article, thank you. I remember reading this story back in the late \'80s about the Chinese farmer and his good news/bad news. Although I may have already been heading that way, I felt it was the tipping point for changing my worldview (though the word \"worldview\" was slowly becoming inoperable); \"The Turn,\" as Jesus would put it, and kensho (I am fairly certain) for the Buddhist. My whole attitude and outlook upon life had significantly shifted.\r\nWhat seems a characteristic (or gateway trait) of equanimity is the ability to hold ambiguity without the rush or even concern to find a side or solid ground. When this started happening to me, where I had once been so sure about everything, it felt all wrong and I thought I was losing it. Yet at the same time there was this quiet assurance things were exactly as they should be. I did not try to fix it.'),(945,'Buddynet02@att.net',1570,1336411520,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Beverly\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you for an informative article.  I did not know how Cinco de Mayo came to be.'),(946,'sbrennan1984@comcast.net',1573,1336525378,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Sheila Brennan\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you, Alise - so inspiring to re-live these blessed moments through your posts!'),(947,'karin@anduril.ca',1575,1336532874,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Karin\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you for letting us share in this groundbreaking event! There is a lot of work still to be done as evidenced by conversation today that was all about never being alone in a room, never driving alone, going out alone with a woman 20 yrs. older or younger, etc. etc.  I just hurt for those who deny themselves intimate friendships with brothers and sisters and fathers and mothers in Christ.'),(948,'pamhogeweide@gmail.com',1576,1336539074,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Pam Hogeweide\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nthanks for an excellent description of the gathering. reading your posts was so great for me since i had wanted to attend but could not. i know kathy e. and jim h. and know the message they bear...and i\'ve come to know dan from the web (and i quote him in my book!!!) love these voices and that they converged together for this weekend. \r\n\r\nand i love your voice too alise. Thanks again for a wonderful report!!'),(949,'jeff@hometownprophetbook.com',1577,1336575194,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi HometownProphet\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks Beverly. Sorry I missed \"approving\" your comment for a couple of days.   You say a lot - all of which I agree with.  I have written an article on how the atheistic ideology of Ayn Rand infiltrated the church and am writing one now on the brainwashing of conservatives (through Fox, radio, etc.).  (If not at Provoketive, they\'re at www.hometownprophetbook.com)  Thanks so much for sharing your story and thoughts.   Jeff'),(950,'marbieabe@gmail.com',1578,1336590610,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Marla Abe\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nAt least in Ohio, a business who hires a person with a record, gets a tax break. They also offered free job training for people who left prison or jail, or were sentenced for non-violent crimes, training on possible jobs and how to handle interviews and paperwork.\r\nI heard a true story of one young man. His mom had worked for some years, very successfully at a nursing home. When her son got out of jail, he lived with her.  The nursing home fired her since she was harboring a criminal.  Those are common stories for many people. \r\nSadly, the regular white American church goer often doesn\'t know of these issues, or ignored them.'),(951,'sasschristine@yahoo.com',1579,1336674555,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Christie\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nGreat post.  It really got me thinking.  I will put this book on my to-read list.'),(952,'melhhanson@yahoo.com',1580,1336684386,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Melody H Hanson (@melodyhhanson)\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nTo be honest I wasn\'t looking for change or prepared for the message of this book.  My husband read it aloud to me driving back from the Calvin Festival of Faith &amp; Writing and as the miles passed I was stunned into complete silence (and horror).  Frankly, I cannot eat factory farmed meat because the book expressed well the process which is so abhorrent and I cannot support it any longer, but we\'ve enjoyed one or two meals since with beef farmed locally here in Black Earth, Wisconsin.  I haven\'t yet been out to the farm to check out their practices but I intend to soon.  We are enjoying our (mostly) meat free life now for the last month!  \r\n\r\nI hope you do read it Christie.  I dare you.'),(953,'rondog23@yahoo.com',1582,1336838681,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ron Baker\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nAre we supposed to feel sorry for Junior Seau now.  He is no doubt a Hall of Fame football player with a lot of money .  There are a lot of people that don\'t have what Seau had and are a lot worse off then him.  So I don\'t feel bad one bit about saying he  took the easy way out!'),(954,'moonsn11@gmail.com',1583,1336839450,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Sarah Moon\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThis is so wonderful. Thank you for this. As a person questioning my sexuality (engaged to and totally in love with a men--but find women attractive as well) as well, it\'s a wonderful reminder. \r\n\r\nI loved how you used that quote from the exorcist as well. I think it can apply to so many things. \r\n\r\nAlso, I\'m a recovering cutter myself who\'s been eyeing the razor blade lately too (albeit for different reasons). Hang in there!'),(955,'fglaysher@comcast.net',1581,1336839701,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Frederick Glaysher\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\n\'One misconception about the Baha’i faith is that it’s a cult. Cults are usually small groups that are governed by a radical leader who tries to isolate the group from society and tries to keep them from listening to anyone else....\'\r\n\r\nFor a different view, I invite you and your readers to consider the comments and experience of \r\nProfessor Juan Cole, University of Michigan, from his Autobiography\r\nhttp://www.juancole.com/toward-an-authorized-biography\r\n\r\n\r\nThe Baha’is said they believed in the unity of the world religions, the elimination of racism, the equality of women and men, and world peace... \r\n\r\n It gradually became apparent that most Baha’is do not actually believe in the equality of women and men, excluding women from their elective highest body, the Universal House of Justice, and giving speeches about how women have a different function in society than men and how men are the heads of the household. Then it gradually became apparent that whatever they privately believed about racism, they were unwilling to take a stand, as quietists, against Apartheid– and, indeed, were entirely willing to cooperate with the South African government if their religious institutions thereby gained freedom of action. Then it became clear that they are no more religious pluralists than Roman Catholics or Muslims, admitting partial truth in other traditions, but insisting that only in their own tradition is the fullness of the contemporary truth manifest. Then it became clear that the Baha’i authorities were not exactly pacifists. The top leadership has a secret cult-like belief in a Baha’i theocracy that will rule the world, rather on the same model as the theory of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini that Muslim clergy should replace civil governments globally. Some Baha’i communities were frankly reactionary, as with the Chilean community, which kept trying for photo ops with Gen. Augusto Pinochet. The community, for understandable reasons, opposed the Iranian revolution of 1978-79 in Iran, but many went further and privately warmly supported the shah for the most part. Cole gradually lost his enthusiasm for the community and the administration. When he married outside it in 1982, he stopped going to services because his non-Baha’i wife was excluded. He was also increasingly disturbed by the censorship practices imposed on Baha’i writers by the religion’s administration, and refused to submit to them....\r\n\r\n(When email lists came along in the 1990s and he was active in Baha’i discussions of the religion’s history and policies, in which he retained an academic interest, and some hopes of reform, and he came to be hated by the fundamentalist leadership. In 1996 they had a high official call him at home and threaten him with being declared a “covenant-breaker,” i.e. a heretic, because of his critical email postings. Baha’is shun “covenant-breakers” and shun people who are in contact with them. Cole was astonished at the narrow-minded and coercive tactics of the administration, and declined to remain in the community. He angrily resigned. He is now not interested in organized religion as a personal matter. Cole was all along an American liberal, and had thought the Baha’is were on his side, which he discovered to be an error, at least with regard to the secretive and duplicitous leadership....\"\r\n\r\nMany people have had similiar experiences with the Baha\'i organization located in Haifa, Israel, and Wilmette, Illinois. Some of their stories may be found at The Baha\'i Faith &amp; Religious Freedom of Conscience\r\nhttp://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship'),(956,'travismamone83@gmail.com',1584,1336843682,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Travis Mamone\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks, Sarah! Now the thing about bisexuality that most people don\'t get is that you don\'t have to dump your current partner in order to be out and proud. Rev. Janet Edwards is bisexual and she\'s still with her husband. It\'s more about being honest with yourself rather than who you\'ve been with.'),(957,'dbgladson@yahoo.com',1585,1336844360,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Dave Gladson\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks so much Travis for sharing this, for your courage to be a person of integrity, to be vulnerable.  I pray that God will give me the courage to stand with you, to come out of my family\'s chains of fundamentalism, and be a person of integrity, too.'),(958,'travismamone83@gmail.com',1586,1336850958,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Travis Mamone\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nTrust me, Dave, it ain\'t easy! In fact, sometimes I wonder if I should just not say anything. The problem is, I feel even worse if I don\'t say anything!'),(959,'outofcomatose@gmail.com',1587,1336885809,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Deanna Ogle\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nFredrick,\r\n\r\nFascinating. I had not heard any of that. I\'ll definitely have to read the links you provided--I\'d be interested to hear what those stories are.\r\n\r\nThanks for stopping by and reading. The more input, the clearer the picture.\r\n\r\nDeanna'),(960,'Buddynet02@att.net',1589,1336896930,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Buddy aka Beverly\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI just couldn\'t let this comment go by, although it\'s probably old by now.  You say you wouldn\'t want to pay for someone else\'s birth control, that they should be responsible, right?  I bet you would hate even more paying for someone\'s abortion, and I\'d further the bet by saying that you\'d resent paying for social programs for someone else\'s child.  Am I pretty close to your feelings?  Well, here are mine--we don\'t live in a perfect world and not everyone is as close to being the wonderful responsible person you are, and some try but slip up.  In my mind, people have always had sex whether it was under perfect conditions or not and society has had many ways of dealing with it throughout the ages.  We no longer force teenaged couples into shotgun weddings that never seemed to last anyway.  We no longer send girls off to visit some faraway aunt and actually give their child up for adoption, or should they decide to keep it be foreced to wear that scarlet letter and their child as well.  We do have social programs, and if we have the heart of Christ, we can see that no child asks to be born or gets to choose the circumstances that they are born to.  If you really are against abortion and also resent programs to help single moms and poor children along, it would seem to me that you\'d be all for free birth control and what as many poor women to have access to it as possible.  Unless you think that they should pay for their irresponsible actions with a child. . .that you will ultimately pay for.  . .if she doesn\'t get an abortion.  So weigh in the values and as far as I can see birth control for poor women. . .for all woman who want it. . .is a very good thing that everyone with a heart, and a brain, and maybe even a little shot of courage, should stand up and shout for!!!  Thanks for listening to yet a different POV.'),(961,'ed@inpulsearts.com',1591,1336938830,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ed\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\n\"...if our life can be so altered by an irrational fear, why does it seem to be so unaltered at times by the most rational fear of all? By the awe-inspiring fear that should be felt at even the mention of one Name?\"\r\n\r\nI think that perhaps we have been conditioned in so many ways to accept that \"God is love all of the time.\" For the most part that\'s true. So many of us don\'t have that close walk with God, we rarely pick up the Bible anymore, or worse yet, we don\'t have the Word written in us. So we don\'t have that fear of God, along with a clear understanding, of who He is.'),(962,'knightopia@gmail.com',1590,1336948037,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Steve K.\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nMuch love and respect, Travis!'),(963,'sgarret131@comcast.net',1592,1337121026,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi David Garrett\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nSorry your church is made \"with its hierarchical structure, contrived relationships, systems, programs and the like, I like ours, It\'s made with Jesus. Or should I say Jesus made it.'),(964,'marni@relevantbrokenness.com',1593,1337201056,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Marni Arnold\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nGreat article filled with truth! Thank you for these words! I just recently learned about this book, and it is sweeping our city (Charlotte) like a wildfire. It seems everywhere I am turning, I keep hearing from women, \"You have to read this book!\" Really, do I? Really, do you know what I \"need\" to read? Do you really know I can handle these kinds of books/stories? Do you really know me? The answers to all these questions is profoundly one simple one...no.\r\n\r\nWe must be very careful with what books we recommend to people. I read Twilight, Harry Potter and a vast array of other fantastical story books...and I can handle those stories. They don\'t affect me the way perhaps they may affect someone else. However, this kind of book from the description alone turned me off like a light switch. Why? Because my mind can easily become ensnared in such a story line in a manner that isn\'t good. So I must be very careful to not only choose my books carefully when it comes to fiction, but also to recommend such books to anyone unless I truly know they can handle them (which happens rarely). So I usually stick with recommending books that truly can help people. Books that provide God-focused insight that lead us to further study of His word on our own. Books that uplift and point toward Christ. What I read on the side of these books, for my own fantastical imaginary getaway, I table for myself and keep from the ears of others.'),(965,'jordanhageman@gmail.com',1594,1337201529,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jordan Hageman\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nMarni, thanks for your comment. I agree that we have to be careful about what types of books we recommend!'),(966,'jb@thriven.org',1596,1337369879,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jonathan Brink\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThis is awesome.  I want to read it.'),(967,'erik@keylife.org',1597,1337374559,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi The Merry Monk\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nLike'),(968,'wtwsarahb@yahoo.com',1598,1337446638,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Sarah B\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nWhat a sad state of affairs. In the UK there are members of the Parliamentary Christian Group belonging to almost every party - from the Left to the Right via the middle (which you don\'t seem to have?). Here faith and politics have never been closely tied, possibly because for a long time anyone not belonging to the Established Church was excluded from the political process. Only with the Acts of Emancipation (1859, 1879) were non-Conformists, Dissenters and those of other faiths included. Socialism (in the moderate form of the Labour Party) was founded on Christian roots and the Christian Socialist Movement still has influence within that political party. \r\nMy plea to those more on the Left would be; do not abandon the church - work from within to challenge and bring change to congregations so that gospel values - loving and providing for the poor, the weak, the abandoned, the marginalised and unloved - shape your programs and preaching, rather than politics.\r\nMy plea to those on the Right would be; take seriously the teaching of Jesus about caring for the widow and orphan, take seriously the teaching of James that faith without works (of mercy, grace and giving) is dead.\r\nMy plea to you all; talk to each other instead of shouting at each other. Learn to value the things that unite you - belief in the trinitarian God who made, loves and saves the world, including the neighbours you disagree with - more than you value the things that  separate you. Finally, pray together that you can so manifest the grace, mercy and love of God that you dazzle your neighbours with the picture of God you show them by the very lives you live.'),(969,'travismamone83@gmail.com',1599,1337467468,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Travis Mamone\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nWe\'re Americans, we don\'t believe in \"moderation\" and \"middle ground.\" Extremism all the way, baby!\r\n\r\n(I\'m being sarcastic, by the way.)'),(970,'sasschristine@yahoo.com',1600,1337519641,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Christie\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nLove your sentiment.  I think we need to strip religion and spirituality down to the bare bones and find some common ground, even beyond Christianity, so that the stereotypes on both sides can be lessened and we can get back to using religion and spirituality as a means of becoming our best selves, and not breaking others down.  Thank you for visiting and commenting.'),(971,'sasschristine@yahoo.com',1601,1337519683,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Christie\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks for visiting and commenting, Travis.  Love your sarcasm.  Humor makes everything better.  :-)'),(972,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1602,1337573149,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tom lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThe use of these labels of Left/Right or Liberal/Conservative (Progressive/Regressive?) concerning Truth seems so childish and weird, and only useful in divisiveness.  Sorry, but it just makes me feel like I am in Wonderland. It takes us away from the essentials to deal with egos. One faith, one baptism: the best ecumenical movement is to end such labels and association (and, of course, do away with luther-, calvin-, and wesley-anything in our beliefs). \r\nThere is one truth: one is either advancing that or not. Truth is neither liberal nor conservative. In fact, in spirit and truth such things are enemies of the soul.\r\nThe problem is impossible to solve for the attempts are trying to unite two different paradigms--and they are not compatible. The common ground is never going to be found in what we believe but in how we believe. How we believe is where spirit resides.'),(973,'Buddynet02@att.net',1603,1337585096,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Buddy aka Beverly\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI knew as soon as he released his affirmation to the public that it would be taken negatively on all sides.  I do not think he did this to gain votes.  In fact, I wish he had waited until after the election to state how he feels about this because it was such a risky thing to do.  However, I do not believe that he said what he did for any other reason than it is what he beleives in his heart.  He has said for some time now that he is evolving on this issue, and I understand that because I have also gone through many stages in my own evolvement and reached the same conclusion, which is that people should be free to love who they love, no matter how others feel about it, and that since they are already forming commited relationships that include rasing families, they should be afforded the same rights and privileges as any other family unit.  I think the sincerity of his statement is enhanced because anyone of a modicum of intelligence can see that to make such a statement only months before the election was a big risk, but he was true to his heart and soul and willing to share it because it was what he felt was right.  God bless President Obama, the most honest president I have seen in my lifetime.  And haters be damned if you don\'t get this or if you just can\'t resist one more chance to belittle this kind and loving man!'),(974,'erik@keylife.org',1605,1337706535,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi The Merry Monk\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nHey, check it out!  I\'m giving away a signed copy of <i>Three Free Sins</i>.  You could win!  Find out how... http://goo.gl/bBSsI'),(975,'spamthis23@rocketmail.com',1604,1337709108,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Anonymous\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\npretty cool article. tuba sounds like a great person!'),(976,'erumrizvi@rocketmail.com',1606,1337727305,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Erum\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nTuba is very inspiring.'),(977,'drbobcornwall@msn.com',1608,1337727306,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Bob Cornwall\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks Deanna for sharing my story of faith with your readers!'),(978,'rocketscience23@rocketmail.com',1607,1337727306,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Mujtaba\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI agree'),(979,'rayrayc17@live.com',1609,1337748962,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nFriend, I think you missed the entire point of my post. My idea was that using the term \"using the easy way out\" is an insensitive term. Regardless of whether the person has money or fame, they don\'t deserve judgment from others who don\'t understand what they are truly going through.\r\n\r\nThat includes you. Whether Seau was a high paid athlete or not, he may have been dealing with depression and anxiety. It\'s not our place to throw phrases at him like \"he took the easy way out.\" We are all, as humans, to say, \"what a horrible loss of life.\"\r\n\r\nI would hope that if you lost someone close to you to suicide that no one would use that term to describe them as taking the easy way out. Depression is an awful thing. It encompasses body and soul. None of us, whether we are sports fans or onlookers know what he was going through. Money has nothing to do with it. I hope you can look on as a human and pray for his family. Pray for his soul. He was, like the rest of us, a troubled human being.'),(980,'drbobcornwall@msn.com',1610,1337871573,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Bob Cornwall\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks Deanna,\r\n\r\nSaeed has become a great friend to me, so I appreciate your introduction of him to a wider audience.  I enjoyed hearing Tuba\'s story as well.\r\n\r\nThanks!!\r\n\r\nBob'),(981,'ed@inpulsearts.com',1611,1337881072,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ed\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI absolutely agree and love what you said here. Yeah, it\'s definitely time to come out of that system. Thanks Terry!'),(982,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1612,1337881200,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tom lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nExcellent post, thank you. Great line and vital: \"We have to lose our love affair with addresses and fall in love with zip codes again.\"\r\nWhat I see as the perfect model for the Church  today is the Twelve Step Program of Alcoholics Anonymous, for iit is based in a Spirit of Action rather than a System of Belief. The freedom we get in Christ is  the loss of worldliiness, which includes these provencial loyalties to a particular church we attend or a certain denomination or sect. Doubtful we will see many willing to abandon these things, yet this is what Jesus took issue with the Jews. \r\nThrough a study of the early Church, I was amazed at how much alike AA is to the Christians of that era and how apparently lacking the present day Church is in that spirit.  \r\n-strong emphasis on fellowship and helping each other both with problems and to grow\r\n-confession and testimony at each gathering\r\n-the essential and daily spirit of action\r\n-God as the one authority, not a council or pope or organization\r\n-small local groups that function in their community\r\n\r\nThe basic message of the Twelve Steps is to place everything in the care of God and the primary path for this is to pplace godly principles before our own or others personalities, which does away with squabbles over Conservative or Liberal, this translation over that translation..'),(983,'Tsmith0095@gmail.com',1613,1337881755,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tsmith0095\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks Ed.   Be sure to connect with me on twitter and facebook.  I talk about this topic a lot.'),(984,'Tsmith0095@gmail.com',1614,1337881805,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tsmith0095\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nHm. I should probably learn more about these \"12 Steps\".  I would love to see the Church return to an Acts Church where folks had \"everything in common\".  Let us go out and be the ones to start this change.  Let\'s save our cities through community and relationship.'),(985,'rayrayc17@live.com',1616,1337912857,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\n\"It’s time for us, as the Church to get off our high horse and help the man in the ditch who is dying as the religious walk on by him.  It’s time that we lose our religious piety and pick up the Cross of Jesus (His life and His death) and we start feeding the poor, clothing the naked and freeing the prisoners.\"\r\n\r\nExactly. This is the humble realization I came to after my fall from ministry. Often, churches are quick to dismiss those within their congregation who fall or stumble. I\'ve heard pastors call them \"blessed subtractions\". But when a man or woman goes overboard on our ship, it is our duty to go after them. \r\n\r\nYou\'re right, we are a community, not a building. Great post.'),(986,'ragersedge@gmail.com',1615,1337914506,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Janie\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI\'m truly humbled. Living in a small community, we \'think\' that the problem of homelessness doesn\'t exist here. It does. I need to do more I need to allow Him to work through me.  Thank you for striving and being the man that God has called you to be. You and Bec are near and dear to our hearts. I can\'t believe that 3 days, a year ago....made such an impact on our lives. You continue to do so, through Christ.  Now if you don\'t mind, I have a zip code to think about. &lt;3 Much Love to you, my brother.'),(987,'Tsmith0095@gmail.com',1617,1337914875,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tsmith0095\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nHumbled by your words, Janie. Love you.'),(988,'Tsmith0095@gmail.com',1618,1337915105,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tsmith0095\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks for your words, Ray. Not only when one goes overboard but when we happen upon the drifter who was never in our boat.'),(989,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1619,1337987304,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tom lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you, Deanna, for such an informative series. It is clear throughout this tour of diverse religious beliefs that truth can be found in all of them and everywhere.'),(990,'outofcomatose@gmail.com',1621,1338055290,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Deanna Ogle\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nTom, thank you very much. I\'m so glad you have found value in this series of articles. I had a wonderful time talking to each of these people, and I am glad I could communicate that to you.\r\n\r\nThanks for reading! It means more than you know.'),(991,'sd_al1@hotmail.com',1620,1338056413,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ali\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nVery well written article! \r\nExcellent work Deanna, we need more journalists like you'),(992,'outofcomatose@gmail.com',1623,1338056669,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Deanna Ogle\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nIsn\'t she? She is very brave. Thanks for reading!'),(993,'outofcomatose@gmail.com',1622,1338056669,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Deanna Ogle\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nTuba is awesome. She and I connected pretty quickly at class. I loved hanging out with her!'),(994,'outofcomatose@gmail.com',1624,1338056730,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Deanna Ogle\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nBob,\r\n\r\nThank you again for introducing me. Saeed is a great guy, and I appreciate his candidness in talking about his faith and others. Very inspiring.\r\n\r\nThanks for reading!\r\n\r\nDeanna'),(995,'outofcomatose@gmail.com',1626,1338056790,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Deanna Ogle\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nBob, you are very welcome. Thanks for sharing it with me!'),(996,'outofcomatose@gmail.com',1625,1338056790,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Deanna Ogle\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nOh, thank you, Ali! You are very kind.\r\n\r\nThanks for taking time to stop by and read!'),(997,'amitkumar.mumbai@gmail.com',1627,1338064881,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Amit Kumar\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nNice interview. Got to learn stuff about Hinduism that I wasn\'t aware of - It\'s a vast faith after all :)'),(998,'datasmart1234@gmail.com',1629,1338085873,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Regina Farmer\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nWow! I finally found an article I can relate to. Awesome writing and comments. Makes me proud to be a Christian. I\'m so sad that the word Christian is becoming muddled with words of hate when it comes to politics. We all know that Jesus embraced the poor and the outcasts. I totally feel that Obama represents that well.'),(999,'janetteroutley@gmail.com',1628,1338098131,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Janettie\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nJordan,\r\n\r\nI love this!  You hit the nail on the head--I\'ve been prepping for a sermon regarding \'The Single Life\', and am touching on the same thing--Christian romance books set our women up for disappointment if they think what they are reading is reality.  Unfortunately, I know some well meaning Christian readers  who have a hard time believing it is fiction and --have experienced some great disappointment and letdown that has led to bitterness. I think back to the Christy Miller series from when we were young, and the idea of finding love on the tea cups at Disney--I was just on the teacups...with a boy who loved Jesus very much...and we didn\'t fall in love.  haha  \r\n\r\nWe all do want a story worth telling though, don\'t we?'),(1000,'tubs_200@hotmail.com',1630,1338139913,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Tuba\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nAwww Deanna this is so lovely. I told everyone to read it.. so the \"tuba sounds like a great person\" comment was my little brother trying to be nice :p I\'m really not that awesome. But thank you for this! All your articles in this series are so well-written. My bio classmate is gonna be a super-famous journalist! &lt;3'),(1001,'Buddynet02@att.net',1631,1338143097,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Buddy aka Beverly\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI\'ve been trying to tell people for years that the one percent wants to make us all serfs.  The corporations didn\'t move their jobs overseas because they couldn\'t afford the taxation; they did it purely because of greed.\r\n\r\nWhat I see happening is a major plan by the corporate owned GOP to bankrupt our federal government so it can end all social programs including Medicare, Social Security and Unemployment.  They keep talking about democrats and how they want to “spend spend spend,” yet is the republicans that got us into a ten year war and gave tax breaks to the rich.  Then they came up with the “debt ceiling” and introduced a balanced budget program amendment that would cause all social programs to be eliminated because we can’t afford them.  Now that the corporations want to come back because they’ve found that even though they pay slave wages overseas, they are still showing a smaller profit margin due to shipping costs, and at the same time, the GOP is also trying to abolish unions.  They are making us destitute and their goal is to be able to pay Americans the same slave wages they paid overseas.  And if you don’t believe that, there are already those who want to eliminate minimum wage.  The GOP wants to make us a land of serfs.  Oh, and they are against birth control too, all the more slaves to fight their wars and work in their factories, as all those kiddies will need to eat and with no social programs, people will think slave wages are just hunky dory.  Like you, I am very concerned with what’s happening in our country and where it’s all leading us, but I don’t think Obama’s the one to fear, he’s just one guy.  It’s the corporate power that’s up to no good.  We are heading back to the dark ages if we fall under another Republican Administration and American freedom and rights as we have always believed in and fought for will most likely be lost forever.\r\n\r\nThe GOP tell us there’s no money and the rich aren’t the blame for our predicament, yet when I see Donald Trump standing with his arm around Mitt Romney’s shoulder and hear an announcement that an anonymous donor just pledged $9 million to Romney’s campaign, that tells me that the corporations are betting on their race horse, their very own puppet to do their bidding.  I have union retirement, and they are threatening to take that away from me, my house will be paid off in four months, and I‘m sure they want that too.  I am a woman (they are trying to make women non persons and even want to decriminalize rape) and since I am past my child bearing years and cannot produce offspring to fight their wars or work for pennies in their corporations, they’ll probably send me to the salt mines. So I’ll come right out and say it, at this time of my life, I am a LIBERAL.  Should times redefine the word and what it stand for, that may change, but I truly think that anyone with an ounce of self-preservation would be foolish to vote the republican ticket.  Everyone else gets to say what they want to say, so I just said my piece.'),(1002,'outofcomatose@gmail.com',1632,1338145542,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Deanna Ogle\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI was not a part of the Denim Skirt Cult, but I was pretty close. There were all sorts of rules about what we could and couldn\'t wear, and even for Senior Banquet (the prom without dancing because dancing is of the devil) we couldn\'t wear strapless dresses because \"the boys will wonder where your bra is\". I kid you not, that was the ACTUAL reason given to me.\r\n\r\nAnd then, once I got out of that environment, it took me several years to get comfortable with myself again. I worried if something felt too low, or too sexy, or too comfortable on my skin. Eventually I realized that if I felt nice in something I could wear it, or if it was balls hot outside and the most comfortable/coolest tank I have doesn\'t line up with my bra straps, the men aren\'t going to flip into rape mode because of me.\r\n\r\nI think we turn men into animals sometimes. They are in charge of themselves. They are responsible for themselves, just like us. We have to stop shaming women\'s bodies. It\'s just not healthy.'),(1003,'drbobcornwall@msn.com',1634,1338152814,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Bob Cornwall\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nDeanna -- thanks for your interview with my friend Padma!!  It was great to see her story told.\r\n\r\nBob'),(1004,'mountain_girl_89@yahoo.com',1633,1338155489,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jackie Taylor\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI was sort of in the \"denim skirt cult\", but it wasn\'t because I was really made to do it, I sort of did it on my own. I was told that I had to be modest and I believe I took it a little far. I did wear pants and Jeans, but I also wore ankle long skirts. I stayed away from tank tops (don\'t ask how I survived summer) and didn\'t start wearing them until I was around 17. \r\n\r\nIt wasn\'t until I started dating my husband and started to hang out with his family, that I started to realize it wasn\'t bad to wear something like a tank top. Jason\'s, my husband, mom helped me out with getting clothes that were modest, but were a little bit more revealing than I used to wear. The biggest shock, my mother-in-law is a pastor\'s wife.\r\n\r\nLike Deanna, it is taking me a while to get used to being able to wear what I want and not what I think people think I should wear. I\'m still not comfortable with shorts or slightly- above- the- knee skirts, they have to cover my knees when I sit for me to be comfortable. I have come a long way from the, what my in-laws call, \"Grandma clothes\". I feel happy now.\r\n\r\nalso, what Deanna said, I believe that we do turn men into animals, but they are (or should be) in control of themselves. If they start to get out of control, the woman should be the only one to blame. It should go both ways.'),(1005,'jordanhageman@gmail.com',1635,1338162737,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jordan Hageman\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks, Janette! Good luck with the sermon. And yes, we do all want a story worth telling - let\'s keep our focus on telling the greatest love story of all and let God worry about ours.'),(1006,'bronwynsings@yahoo.com',1636,1338227277,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Lyra\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nUnfortunately, this is part of rape culture. I too grew up required to dress very modestly and for the reasons given in the article and comments. If I had been raped back then, I would have sincerely believed it was my fault. I bought fully into the idea that what I wore was responsible for what the boys thought and how they reacted. \r\n\r\nIt never occurred to me back then that boys (and men) were responsible for themselves just as much as I was responsible for myself. (Indeed, I was responsible for myself AND them.)\r\n\r\nAlso note that it\'s very hard to learn to respect men when you believe their behavior, thinking, decision-making, etc., are dependent on you and that you have control over those things.\r\n\r\nIt took me years to get over the whole mindset. Years of feeling naked in knee-length shorts, of feeling terror when I saw a women dressed in sexy (or just well-fitting) clothes because I was certain a rape was imminent, of feeling responsible for whatever the guys around me said or did to me. You can imagine how healthy those early relationships were.\r\n\r\nThe author\'s perspective is much more healthy. Dress normally, or very modestly, or whatever you feel comfortable in. And don\'t teach little girls that they\'re responsible for the boys. We already have enough of that in our culture -- it\'s why females have been blamed for rape throughout history and it\'s why blaming the victim has only recently (historically speaking) been challenged.'),(1007,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1637,1338228257,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tom lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nVery needed piece and a great read. As a person who grew up in a home with spousal abuse, I did not care much for the thoughts and ways of men or how society both generally and specifically suppressed women. I was raised Catholic and read a lot of pieces by so-called \"saints\" that were nothing short misogyny, using Eve\'s role in the Garden (temptress) as an indictment and excuse to suppress; an ancient resentment and blaming that is still strong in the church today. Had to do a lot of work over the years on this issue of men and their oppressive nature. \r\nI suppose I must ask what you perceive is modesty? I am very curious.\r\nGod bless.'),(1008,'jb@thriven.org',1638,1338228584,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jonathan Brink\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nBuddy, while I don\'t think there is a group of people controlling all the moves of the rich, I do think the inertia of self interest plays a huge part in the same thing happening over and over again.'),(1009,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1639,1338234859,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tom lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThere is a poem by Thomas Merton I would like to share with you; it reveals The Turn in his life. I offer it because it helped me go beyond the conventional wisdom and values of the world to a place of a bigger peace, where I happened upon forgiveness and compassion for all those men still in bondage to their primitive views. There was less and less room for virtues, which appeared, surprisingly, to make more and more room for God. It may have a place here.\r\n\r\n \"When in the soul of the serene disciple\r\nWith no more fathers to imitate\r\nPoverty is a success,\r\nIt is a small thing to say the roof is gone;\r\nHe has not even a house.\r\n\r\n\"Stars, as well as friends,\r\nAre angry with the noble ruin.\r\nSaints depart in several directions\r\n\r\n\"Be still:\r\nThere is no longer any need of comment.\r\nIt was a lucky wind\r\nThat blew away his halo with his cares,\r\nA lucky sea that drowned his reputation.\r\n\r\n\"Here you will find\r\nNeither a proverb nor a memorandum.\r\nThere are no ways,\r\nNo methods to admire\r\nWhere poverty is no achievement.\r\nHis God lives in his emptiness like an affliction.\r\n\r\n\"What choice remains?\r\nWell, to be ordinary is not a choice:\r\nIt is the usual freedom\r\nof men without visions.\r\n\r\nIt is the barren land of no ideals or authoritative voices but just the wind of the spirit desert, that blows where it will.'),(1010,'sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com',1640,1338268594,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Kaitlin Moroney\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nWhile you may not have been as strict as I was in your expression, I would say the mindset was just as extreme and unhealthy. \r\n\r\nI definitely agree that men are turned into animals, which quite honestly, is just as unhealthy for them as it is for us. \r\n\r\nThanks for reading and commenting, Deanna! =)'),(1011,'sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com',1641,1338268879,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Kaitlin Moroney\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nIt should be noted that I did it on my own as well. It was my own choice to start dressing the way I did and my parents didn\'t make me do it at all. It was definitely a result of the environment I was in and the \'peer pressure\' from my friends around me and not because of anything my parents forced on me. \r\n\r\nI think it is very important to wear what is comfortable for you and be happy in your own skin. I am glad you have been able to find that balance for yourself! \r\n\r\nThanks for reading and giving your input, Jackie!'),(1012,'sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com',1642,1338269035,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Kaitlin Moroney\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI agree wholeheartedly. It is definitely part of the rape culture that our society is only beginning to dig its way out of. I would have liked to get into that a bit more in my post but it seemed slightly deviant from the main point I was trying to make. I firmly believe that saying \"If you wear that [insert arbitrary piece of clothing], you will make men sin!\" is right on its way to saying \"Well she only got groped/molested/raped because she was dressed like a slut!\" because it stems from the same viewpoint that women are responsible for the actions of men. \r\n\r\nExcellent points, Lyra! Thank you for reading and commenting.'),(1013,'sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com',1643,1338270227,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Kaitlin Moroney\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you, Tom, I appreciate your comments. My heart goes out to you for the experiences you have been through. \r\n\r\nYou bring up an excellent thought that has previously crossed my mind but hasn\'t recently. That of the role of Eve in the introduction of Sin into the world. I have actually heard people use that as an argument for why women are to be held *more* responsible than the men for abuse/rape/etc. \"Well it\'s obvious women are just temptresses and only bring the innocent men down with them...just look at Eve!\"  Thank you for your thoughts. \r\n\r\nIn answer to your question, I believe a persons \'level\' of modesty-- be it denim skirts or shorts, long sleeves or tank tops --is between them, God, (and if they have one) their significant other. There is no clear cut scripture that says \"thou shalt not wear bikinis\" for us to go by, so I think this is one of those areas that people need to decide for themselves on. If a woman feels comfortable, happy and confident in the way she dresses, there is absolutely no room for me to make a judgement call on whether or not that is \"modest\". For me, I am FAR more liberal than I used to be. Just today I wore shorts and a halter top! ;)\r\n\r\nAnd I should just note that I have nothing against teaching modesty. However it needs to be done in a healthy way that doesn\'t shame women\'s bodies and put unnecessary blame on them. Perhaps that will be my next post! \r\n\r\nThank you again for your comment, Tom.'),(1014,'sfcc.kaitlin.allen@gmail.com',1644,1338270551,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Kaitlin Moroney\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nBeautiful and provocative! Thank you for sharing that. It rings so true with me. Both in this and throughout the rest of my life. The more I drift away from dogma and doctrine, the more room I have for God\'s love in my life-- and the more love I have, the more love I can share.'),(1015,'Buddynet02@att.net',1645,1338401121,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Buddy aka Beverly\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nMy husband and I were just talking about this last night.  Actually we were talking about some of our conservative friends that think we are fighting a spiritual battle with politics, and of course the \"Right\" believes they are right.  And I mentioned that is why there MUST be separation between church and state, that even among all the different varieties of Christianity, the many churches and the doctrines they focus on, we that call ourselves Christians disagree on so many issues.\r\n\r\nIf I am unsure of how to approach issues that affect the outcome of others, I fall back on the commandments Jesus left us with and I think is this a loving way to treat people?  Would Jesus be more impressed that I am following biblical principles (think Pharisee laws) or am I treating them kindly?\r\n\r\nSo many Christians I know seem to have contradictive ideas such as they will move mountains to prevent abortion, yet they resent being taxed to help the poor.  It seems like we care more about fetuses than we do children that are already born, like we need to \"get them born\" but we would deny them a free school lunch.\r\n\r\nA lot of people are angry with our president because he introduced free birth control to \"Obamacare.\"  I\'ve heard a lot of comments that this is taking away religious freedom for others.  But is it?  Just because \"the pill\" is included in insurance coverage doesn\'t mean anyone has to use it.  And I\'ve heard the argument about Catholic employers being forced to go against their beliefs just because someone \"might\" use pills included in an insurance program.  First, why does the employer even need to know what parts of the universal program and employee uses?  And if the employee is a married women and not pregnant most of the time, she most likely already is using some form of birth control.  Secondly, studies indicate that 98% of Catholic women are already using birth control, and this is to the employer\'s advantage anyway, as it interrupts the flow of work when women take maternity leave, so they certainly wouldn\'t be too happy if a woman did it often. \r\n\r\nWhen it comes to free birth control pills, I\'ve heard many Christian conservatives argue that they don\'t want to pay for someone else\'s contraception.  Yet they don\'t want people to have abortions and they resent their taxes going into social programs that help the poor.  So wouldn\'t the pill help prevent both, abortions and more poor people?  Doesn\'t it seem hard hearted and almost like you want poor women to be punished for having sex?  Is that how Jesus viewed the adulteress?\r\n\r\nPeople are also angry with President Obama for affirmation of the right for gay couples to marry, and he has stated that his views have evolved on this issue.  Well, guess what?  I believe that because mine have also evolved.  I voted for Prop 8 here in California and asked my niece if she did and she stated she did not.  I said, but we are Christian and it\'s against our religion.  She replied, \"Yes, it\'s against our religion, and we would never do that, but we can\'t tell them that they can\'t marry.\"  At the time I disagreed with her, but now I believe just as the president does, and that is that gay people are a part of our society and they have  families and have for a long time.  Don\'t the children of gay couples have the right to be treated just like other children?  Should we shun children of such families?  Should gay parents be treated with dignity and respect when they come to watch their children play games?  Are we being loving when we deny them the same rights that we want for ourselves.  Does gay marriage really hurt traditional marriage?  Does it really?  Because I think we straight people have already disrespected marriage to the nth degree ourselves.  Most churches have divorced and remarried couples in attendance already, and that certainly is not the fault of gay people who marry or wish to have the right to do so.\r\n\r\nI believe that true Chritianity is a heart attitude.  We can spew verses and rules at people.  We can tut-tut people and make them feel disapproved of.  We can vote on issues that deny rights to others that would make them feel like equal citizens in our society.  We can be Pharisees. . .or we can obey the last commandments Christ left us with and \"Love one another as I have loved you\"  and \"Love your neighbors as you love yourself.\"  I think if our focus is on that, so many of our other problems will begin to fall away.'),(1016,'bignoseduglyguy@gmail.com',1646,1338407135,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Buzz\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI\'m always having to pull myself up short and tell myself that we only need have His eyes to see such folk. Sadly, I need more practice as I often fall into rationalising why I didn\'t step up and help after the fact.  Thanks for the nudge.'),(1017,'royalfamily12@gmail.com',1647,1338411520,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Amy Mitchell\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nYes, it\'s sad that so many Christians like to quote Bible verses and list all the things we\'re not supposed to do, while failing to uphold even the most basic, foundational commands to love God and love each other.  The most common excuses I\'ve heard are that we\'re supposed to be \"in the world, but not of it\" and that people will \"persecute\" us for \"doing the right thing.\"  I\'ve been told outright that if people like what I say, then I\'m doing it wrong and it\'s a sign I\'m not right with God.  I guess I wonder what happened to \"they will know you are Christians by your love.\"  It seems to have been forgotten in favor of fighting these battles.  The constant bickering reminds me of my kids.'),(1018,'rayrayc17@live.com',1648,1338418539,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nBuzz,\r\n\r\nYou\'re right. I guess the thing that put me over the top is when I realized I wasn\'t any better than anyone else. None of us consciously think that, but I try to think, \"what if that were me? Because someday it might be.\"\r\n\r\nThanks for the comment.'),(1019,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1649,1338436467,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tom lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you for this great read, Ray. It was only after I lost my standing in the community and destroyed my reputation that I began to see what it truly meant to serve others. So much of it before was \"acting\" like a \"good\" Christian and for image, although I did not think so at the time. I took the gifts of the spirit to be behavior modification rules. When I was an outcast, I noticed the good feeling produced the giving rather than the giving making me feel good. It was an overflowing, just spillage of God\'s abundance, and thus no boast. There was no sacrifice to it, no sense of loss, pain, or inconvenience. I had been gracefully emptied of worth and esteem, which allowed God to act unimpeded.\r\nThe point you brought out about the man being unabled to even say aloud the word Samaritan is something I like to bring out as well. But imagine if this story had not made the Gospels and the sunday sermon was on the other question he asked: what do we need for eternal life? If the preacher merely invented a similar story with the moral and instruction of just love your neighbor, you know there would be an outcry in most churches today for several reasons (especially if one substituted a Muslim).'),(1020,'jb@thriven.org',1650,1338479453,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jonathan Brink\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nLove this Ray.  We\'re all Samaritans.'),(1021,'marshmk@gmail.com',1651,1338502501,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Mike\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nGreg, I really appreciate the distinction between knowing and learning. I hear a similar distinction in St. Antony\'s words, \"I no longer fear God, I now love him.\" (Or something like that.) Knowing is often a means of protection whereas learning means I must be vulnerable, open, receptive. I would rather know than learn. It is easier and safer. I suspect learning is closely related to repentance. I also find it interesting that the mystics speak of the path of unknowing. \r\n\r\nPeace,\r\nMike+'),(1022,'StrategicMonk@gmail.com',1652,1338503078,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi StrategicMonk\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you, Mike. I like your idea about the connection between learning and repentance.\n\nI have fallen in love with learning. We want to know things so we can take comfort and security from certainty, to gain a sense of control. As Benedict says, \"Always, we begin again.\" I have come to see learning, beginning, and \"unknowing\" as much more authentic ways of appreciating the truth of life. When we acknowledge that we are not in control, we can be more open to the reality of the world.'),(1023,'karin@anduril.ca',1653,1338509569,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Karin\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nRecently had a post of this parable as well.  Great insights! God is always at work and it\'s wonderful when we can be part of His work!'),(1024,'rayrayc17@live.com',1654,1338519783,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nGreat thoughts Tom, and thank you for sharing. My hermeneutics professor shared several things about this story. He said, \"Imagine if Jesus had told this story in Nazi Germany and the Samaritan had been a Jew. Or imagine if it had taken place during the Civil Rights movement in the South and the Samaritan had been a black man and Christ\'s audience had been white church leaders.\"\r\n\r\nThe parable strikes home for all of us, especially for those who have been humbled. Thank you for your transparency, brother.'),(1025,'rayrayc17@live.com',1655,1338519939,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks, Jonathan. We are. Unfortunately, there are times we act like the two men who passed by on the other side of the road, but we know better. When we learn to accept our station as servants, that we are less than everyone else, that\'s when we readily take on the role of the quiet Samaritan who looked for no reward or thanks. He just acted out of nature.'),(1026,'rayrayc17@live.com',1656,1338520127,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nKarin,\r\n\r\nI read your inspired post. In fact, I was hesitant to write because you had done such an amazing job. But isn\'t Scripture amazing? We all benefit in so many ways from it. Thank you for reading my post. I appreciate it very much.'),(1027,'ed@inpulsearts.com',1657,1338523469,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ed\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nAwwwww. I must have helped out their neighbors, because it\'s the same exact experience I had a couple of weeks ago! God is good!'),(1028,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1658,1338525916,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tom lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you, Ray. My favorite parable, as well it should be, is the Prodigal Son and next the Good Samaritan, although as you pointed out, Jesus never said \"good\"--and that got me thinking more on this story. \r\nAs I alluded to in my other comments, what would be scandalous had this story not been in the Gospels but invented one Sunday by a preacher is the \"hippie\" answer to the question, \"How do we gain eternal life?\": the simple love of neighbor. I have witnessed many times the attempted uncomplicated message of love bring instant resistance from learned Christians who have diligently studied scripture. And try making the priest a Baptist and the Levitt a Catholic (and switch up for the audience). A lot of fun can be had. \r\nThe question I need to ask myself is this: who is my half-bred Samaritan?\r\nGod bless, Ray, and many thanks.'),(1029,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1659,1338572413,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tom lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nAbsolutely beautiful, RHONDADELA. This has to one of the finest descriptions of the spiritual path, and I have read many. The way I try to phrase what you so elegantly wrote has people ask if I know how to talk \"human\": you brilliantly bring heaven and earth together. \r\nI am to live by a lamp unto my feet; just enough light for the moment I am in, there trusting solely in the care of God, blind both to who I am and what I may be. My prayer to be a means without ends, or to have each instant my end in Christ.'),(1030,'rhondadela@gmail.com',1660,1338578245,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi rhondadela\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank-you Tom...what a compliment.  You stated so perfctly what my prayer is. Sometimes  walking this out is easier than other times.  I am finding that much of what the \"faith journey\" is about has just as much to do with learning to have faith as it does about the direction in which we are headed.  I feel so often like I am only scratching the surface of who Chrsit is and how to truly glory Him in this life.  I think that when we get to heaven, all that we so brillantly saught to bring to Him will comparable to a child\'s finger painted pictures... it is our heart behind the creation that He so loves about us.'),(1031,'rhondadela@gmail.com',1660,1338578245,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi rhondadela\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank-you Tom...what a compliment.  You stated so perfctly what my prayer is. Sometimes  walking this out is easier than other times.  I am finding that much of what the \"faith journey\" is about has just as much to do with learning to have faith as it does about the direction in which we are headed.  I feel so often like I am only scratching the surface of who Chrsit is and how to truly glory Him in this life.  I think that when we get to heaven, all that we so brillantly saught to bring to Him will comparable to a child\'s finger painted pictures... it is our heart behind the creation that He so loves about us.'),(1032,'pastorgene3@gmail.com',1661,1338585294,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Gene Anderson\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nExcellent review! Here\'s another take on the film... http://geneanderson.blogspot.com/2012/05/theologicalthursday-made-as-makers.html\r\n\r\nProvokative. I keep the badge on my blog because this e-mag is such a worthwhile read!\r\n\r\nThank you, be blessed!'),(1033,'jb@thriven.org',1662,1338585883,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jonathan Brink\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you Gene.'),(1034,'ebenezer817@yahoo.com',1663,1338626541,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Stephanie\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThe language, Religious Right and Irreligious Left, is a bit divisive. At least I find it so. I would ask what sort of \"engagement\" do churchgoing Americans engage in with their community? I find these churchgoing Americans to be the least tolerant of difference in their communities, more judgmental. Stereotyping? Maybe. Are you implying, as I read it, that its up to the Liberals to find religion to deflect the polarization? I couldn\'t disagree more. The religion of the Liberals is to disengage religion from politics. Finding grace and the betterment of their communities is their religion. The extremism of the \"Religious Right\" has reached the tipping point. I\'ll leave it at that. I value our friendship. I hope we have many further conversations on this topic.'),(1035,'sasschristine@yahoo.com',1664,1338643165,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Christie\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nStephanie,\r\n\r\nThanks for reading and sharing your thoughts.  Productive dialogue is helpful.  First, I couldn\'t agree more that religion should be left out of government (you can read a post I wrote on the topic a few months ago here...http://randomreflectionz.com/2012/02/29/ethics-and-respect-thrive-with-an-absolute-separation-of-church-and-state/).  The \"engagement\" to which I am referring is more of community involvement and social activism.  For instance, the Unitarian Universalist church promotes a \"Standing on the Side of Love\" campaign that promotes tolerance.  Many liberal churches I have been involved with have campaigned for marriage equality by making calls to legislators, etc.  An example of community involvement would be reaching out to displaced LGBT youth in the community.  Perhaps, I did not do a very good job of explaining my position in this article.  I understand the use of the words \"Religious Right\" and \"Irreligious Left\" is a bit of an overgeneralization, but it is definitely not intended to be divisive.  It is intended to point out the inherent flaws in these overgeneralizations.  In America, there seems to be an assumption that if one is religious or a church-goer, that he or she holds conservative political ideals (e.g. against gay marriage, pro-life, less entitlement programs) and that just isn\'t always the case.  This mentality is keeping many liberals from religion and, as a result, the stereotypes only get stronger.  By showing people that religion and liberalism are not dichotomous (outside of government and politics, of course), liberals may be motivated to re-engage in religion.  \"Liberal\" is not just a political term, but a social term as well.  Again, religion should be kept out of politics and government, but there are several other avenues to promote liberal objectives.  Some churches (when used correctly) are a good tool for facilitating social activism and community involvement (such as soup kitchens, cleaning up neighborhoods, advocating for marriage equality and reproductive rights, etc.).  By reengaging liberals in religion, we can not only help to dispel with these stereotypes, but we can harness their efforts to promote liberal social change through societal - not political - avenues.  I couldn\'t agree more that the Religious Right has reached a tipping point, which is what makes this all the more of a timely issue.  As to your questions...there are many churchgoing Americans who are incredibly tolerant and nonjudgmental.  All of the UU churches I have attended have been filled with very tolerant and giving people, in all respects.  By reengaging liberals we can dispel with this stereotype.  Does this make any sense? I\'m still not sure if I am getting my point across, but I hope that this helps a little.  I appreciate your thoughts.  Like I said, productive dialogue is key.'),(1036,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1665,1338816183,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tom lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\n\"Blessed are they that mourn.\" This was a highly curious mark of a saint to me. I could understand the other characteristics noted in the Sermon on the Mount but this one seemed out of place. Until I destroyed my life and reputation with alcohol. The necessary suffering that comes with allowing God to work on our character defects and shortcomings, seeing the depths of our weakness and harm, frees us from those wounds that acted as sin-causing agents. Sorrow is a process of transcendance, of releasing ourselves from our worldliness to see into and accept the eternal. \r\nThe process starts ignobly, it appears, with the regrets of all we lost and progresses to that profound sorrow of lost relationship with God, present in all our relationships with others.\r\nFor me, there is no method for managing my grief; it comes down to trusting in the care of God and allowing this natural cleansing to take place.'),(1037,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1666,1338820254,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tom lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nOne could argue the pillars of society have it worse: there is no need for a savior or to change. Yet it is highly doubtful missions will spring up for this mostly doomed class...or if they did, anyone would take advantage of them.\r\n\r\nI am an ex-con. I spent only three years in prison thanks to a suspended sentence and the benefit of good behavior. I was released to a residential treatment center for six months, then to a halfway house in a depressed and small community in the south of the state, where I knew no one. And that last part was a good thing, for everyone who knew me, knew me as a liar, cheat, and thief.\r\nOn the morning of my arrival, the director picked me up, brought me back to the house, then suggested I get settled in while she did a little shopping. During my time in prison I had renewed my faith in Christ and found a still voice in me. In that moment \"the voice\" said, \"Go with her,\" so I did.\r\nA little background: At this stage I am in my sixties, with no ID (a long story), no work history for over ten years, no marketable skills, and, last but not least, a convicted felon. This earned me high marks on the recividism chart.\r\nThree blocks from the house, not in town an hour, I see a man struggling to get some equipment in a truck and ask the director to stop. \"The voice\" again. She knows the man; he is the station manager for a Christian TV station. I have been working there for almost four years now and my liife is gaining some semblance of decency and light.\r\nOnly the extraordinary, as you noted, provided me a chance. Yet it was not the government or even a church program; just the mercy of God and my receptivity, by grace, to open to His direction. \r\nWhat I have found in the church is people acting like Christians: this is what Jesus took issue with the Jews. They had not opened to a genuine love of neighbor but to the law of loving their neighbor in organized programs. It appears many Christian take the gifts of the spirit as behavior modification rules. This is external and without depth. There seems to be no notice or observation to actually dying to self, of letting go of attachments. Beliefs overpower surrender.'),(1038,'Tsmith0095@gmail.com',1667,1338824099,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tsmith0095\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nAmen, Tom.'),(1039,'richard.goulette@gmail.com',1670,1338915337,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Rich Goulette\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nGood stuff as usual, Jonathan.  I met an economist (Stanford educated, teaches at UC Davis) who is a conservative, and he absolutely agrees with Nick Hanauer.  Anything else is unsustainable.'),(1040,'rhondadela@gmail.com',1671,1338915345,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi rhondadela\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank-you Anh! What a blessing to hear such meaningful words..and thank-you for reading my post! May the LORD continue to bless you as well!'),(1041,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1672,1338915534,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tom lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nWhat are some of the gifts of the \"awful mercy\" of God? Loss, disillusionment, failure and big mistakes. It may appear heartless to the many people I have harmed throughout my life but I would not dare to change a single thing. Saving someone from their pain might just be condemning them to never change in a way best for their soul. My understanding of what is of maximum usefulness for another\'s soul ultimate well-being, as well as that of my own, is hubris. There is necessary suffering, without which I may not come to know the greatest freedom and deepest joy possible in Christ. God wastes nothing for our redemption.\r\nThe regrets that would prompt such an adventure are, to me, nothing more than self-centeredness and selfishness. Love accepts life on life\'s terms, and that means mistakes big and small. It is both in humbly admitting my wrongs and giving another the opportunity to forgive that we grow together, expand the soul.'),(1042,'rhondadela@gmail.com',1673,1338915841,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi rhondadela\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nWhat a wonderful post! Thank-you for sharing so honestly.  As a mom raising a teenage son who has expressed having a hard time crying, this was so refreshing and I intend on sharing this with him.'),(1043,'Tsmith0095@gmail.com',1674,1338919414,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tsmith0095\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI hope and pray the story I share can be one that brings healing.\\'),(1044,'franko@juno.com',1675,1338921493,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi ChristianNoob\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nTom, <strong>I like your comment.</strong> I had never thought of it that way. Maybe I was too caught in the <em>science fiction</em> side of being given a second chance.'),(1045,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1676,1338925210,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tom lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you, Christian. It was a number of years ago, early in my sobriety, that I had the thought, \'If God did allow some of us to go back and alter the past, those that did so most frequently would be those most lost to addictions.\' The more opportunities to undo what we object to, the bigger the mess we would make. \r\n\"My thinking is not your thinking, your ways are not my ways.\" This fits me to a tee.'),(1046,'drbobcornwall@msn.com',1678,1339084368,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Bob Cornwall\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks Deanna for the wonderful review!!'),(1047,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1679,1339175204,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi gerard lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you so much for this insightful look into Bass\' work and our possible future; your presentation helped me to get something of a grasp about the changes I have been noticing as well.\r\nWhat immediately strikes me about the character of this \"new awakening\" is its near perfect reflection of Alcoholics Anonymous. Several known authors today, most notably Richard Rohr, see this international and highly popular movement started in the late 30s as epitomizing what the Emergent Church is looking for and what the Early Church looked like: \r\n\r\nSmall, locally-based groups, where community is central and vital, expressing a \"positive experiential spirituality\" about a God of their own understanding, tolerant of whatever that higher power may be. In almost all meetings, people openly confess and testify, honestly revealing themselves to their peers, both for their own sake and that of those present. And in many meetings you will hear many members describe themselves as \"recovering Catholics,\" eschewing and shedding the \"deadening institutional belief-oriented religion.\"\r\n \r\nIs it possible that God had this in mind all along, that this is the return of Christ.  What and who better fits 1Cor1:27 than alcoholics and addicts: \"God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.   God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things...to nullify the things that are...\"'),(1048,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1680,1339441847,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi gerard lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nFrom my experience, this is not a \"versus\" but the spectrum of a process. Being \"religious\" is needed for a while before our faith deepens, passing through that dark night of the soul. Being religious is wholly good, righteous, and just...until it is not enough. Then, its practice is detrimental to the soul, what God would have us be is greatly diminished or blocked. \r\n \r\nOur full restoration into the image and likeness of God, BEING the light of the world, depends upon releasing ourselves totally into the hands of spirit, which the ego-based religious cannot do; it even seems like evil to them. The religious need their control, safety, and certainty but there are to be no supports for faith.\r\n\r\nWe are to live by a lamp unto our feet; not enough light to illuminate the past or future (not even a step) but only sufficient, by grace, to brighten the moment we are in, making us a simple means without ends.'),(1049,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1681,1339524719,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi gerard lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you, Marni, this was wonderful. It is funny to be now in a place where I have lost my quick and easy scorn for \"Conservative Christians.\" It was so pleasing to have this enemy, feeling ever so holier than they (or thou or anyone else). Funny, if not so tragic.\r\n\r\nTruth is, as you observed with Buddhism, to be found everywhere...if we allow our eyes to be open to the discernment of spirit. Discernment (not judgment)--able to separate soul from spirit, the finite from the eternal--is the vision of Christ.  Then and now, it is my experience and conviction that God wastes absolutely nothing for our peaceful R&amp;R: reconciliation and redemption. \r\n\r\nIt was my study of Buddhism, initiated by what I believed was my disgust with the American Church, that helped bring me to an intimate relationship with Christ, as well as a whole new attitude and outlook upon his message. Their Bodhisattva is very much like our being hidden in Christ. Their Middle Way is very much like our \"living on earth as if already in heaven,\"  These two elements are, to me, the essential message of Christ.\r\n\r\nDuring this period of studying Buddhism (and dabbling in a few other paths), I still pridefully clung to the notion that my particular sect was the most enlightened in matters political or otherwise and could properly claim the title as \"the one, true faith.\" \r\n\r\nFive years ago I went to bed with that firm belief and woke up the next morning already on my knees praying and weeping over my loathsome hubris. Not only did I no longer see my sect as THE SECT, I saw all such divisions in the Church as missing The Mark and patently absurd in the context of Scripture. The easy labels of Liberal and Conservative suffered the same fate. The use of any other name but Christ for doctrine and dogma (Lutheran, Calvinist, and Wesleyan, et al)  suffered the same fate. Yet in that moment, by the grace of God and nothing else, I had only compassion for this sad Wonderlandesque state of the Church. Indivisible is invisible, the kingdom of God within: that love binds us together and we need, as you desperately urge, to live and move and have our being in that kingdom alone. This is what separates us out to be of maximum service to the Lost and needy, in the world and not against the world (or each other).\r\n\r\nThis was a simple awakening and not the last word. And I would love to state that from that moment I immediately and completely embraced this abrupt change of seeing and that wondrous compassion but that is not the case. It has been a slow, yet I feel steady, renewing of my mind on this subject.\r\n\r\nThanks again for the article and allowing me the space to share my view, which is not meant to be the last word on this subject but only how I feel God is working on me.'),(1050,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1682,1339690252,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi gerard lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nYes, God does have a penis--and my God\'s penis is far larger and more virile than your God\'s penis, so there!'),(1051,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1683,1339691734,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi gerard lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nIt must be twenty-five years ago, I had a person tell me that the character of my relationships with others reflected the character of my relationship with God, and probably defined His nature for me as well. This was not something I wanted to hear. Up until that point, it had been me and God against the world: we weren\'t winning, we weren\'t happy, but we had each other. LOL.\r\nIf my faith in God does not include love in all my affairs, then my God is neither omnipresent nor consistent (or I am having too many affairs). Until my God \"matures\" in my \"becoming,\" I need to refrain from idle boasts about Him. Better that I show my God, at my present level, than brag.  The humanity of Jesus seems the hardest for Christians to grasp (and he DID have a penis).\r\nFor me, the entire Gospel is summed up in these words: Turn, and BECOME as a little child, a perpetual beginner and open vessel.'),(1052,'Buddynet02@att.net',1684,1339784000,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Buddy aka Beverly\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you for a timely article.  I, too, have struggled with and explored this issue.  As an old feminist who turned against the religion I was raised with because God as I understood God to be in my early 20s seemed to me like a \"male chauvinist pig\" who hated women, thought they were good for one purpose only, and that is to bear male children.  God seemed to punish Eve a lot more harshly than he did Adam, and even though they both took wrong advice to be disobedient, Eve from the Serpant and Adam through Eve, somehow it was always womankind held out to be the one who must be controlled lest she lead man astray.\r\n\r\nIn my early 30s I found I did need God in my life, and even though I had looked into eastern religions and admired many aspects of them and about Native American beliefs as well, I turned back to the God/Jesus/Holy Spirit version of spirituality I had grown up with.  It was Jesus I liked the most about Christianity, and right at first little else.  But I read the Bible for the first time in my life, and I read leaning on my own understanding (a no-no, I suppose), not the interpretation of a pastor or teacher.  What I found was that often verses that were hurled at me to shame or control me were taken out of context and had nothing at all to do with the way they were used.  I also found that Jesus never said any of the things that seemed so harsh, strict and unfair, that he was all fairness and love, and that he urged us to be likewise.\r\n\r\nIn reading Genesis, I came to the conclusion that God didn\'t necessarily have a penis, and if he did, then he would also have to have a vagina, as scripture clearly says \"male and female he created them in his image.\"  God has also used self-descriptive comparisons such as \"like a mother hen, I will gather my chicks under my wings.\" \r\n\r\nThen there was Jesus\' attitude towards women; he treated females with equality every time one was in his presence.  He said Mary had chosen wisely to sit and listen to him speak instead of laboring in the kitchen like Martha so busy with \"women\'s work\" at a time when learning was a male privilege only. He often chided his disciples for not doing as well as women.  When a woman with an \"issue of blood\" touched his hem, he told this \"unclean woman\" whom no one was to touch that her \"faith had saved her\" and she was cured.  He stopped the stoning of the adulteress, and he treated the Samaritan woman with a \"shady past\" to go and spread the word, after asking her, this most despised, creature to pour him water.  When asked about a woman who had continued to marry brothers as each one died and the next brother in line married her until she had been married seven times who would be her husband in heaven, Jesus said there is no marriage in heaven, no male or female.\r\n\r\nSo my conclusion based on these passages and others as well, is that God/Goddess is a spirit.  The Bible was written in a time and culture where male dominance and the subjection of the female was the norm and to give the Almighty the reverence and respect they should, of course they would chose the male nouns; the female would have been out of the question.  People often say God doesn\'t change, that God is the same yesterday and today, and that may be true, but our culture has certainly changed over the centuries and so have our attitudes.  When Paul began his arduous task of getting the First Church formally established, polygamy was the norm, and even though he suggested that a man in a leadership position should have only one wife, he didn\'t say that men with several should divorce all but one.  He also told men to treat their wives and their slaves kindly.  This is because the culture saw those situations as the norm, and if he had said divorce all your wives and let your slaves go, these people would most likely have been without support and have nowhere to turn.   Paul also said it was better to live like he did, totally devoted to spiritual issues, but it was better to marry than to burn, which suggests to me that marriage wasn\'t ideal but better than those burning hormones distracting you to the point of non-control.  So when people say our values do not change, they are actually very incorrect.  Our values and perceptions have changed a great deal since the preachings of the First Church, and I imagine they will continue to change as our understanding and scientific knowledge change.  Jesus left us with three basic commands-- To love God with all our hearts, to love our neighbor as we love ourselves, and to love one another as he loved us.  If we are doing that, really doing it, instead of saying things like \"love the sinner, hate the sin\" but truly loving, I believe that these burning questions would no longer be so important and we would come to that loving and harmonious understanding of the humane people Jesus urged us to be.'),(1053,'facedown@mac.com',1685,1339791053,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Caedmon Michael\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you for such a thought out comment. You have neatly written my next article for me. ;)\r\n\r\nI don\'t want to say too much, because I\'m still doing the study and writing for said next article, but part of what I will look at is the way we have created God in our image rather than accept we were created in hers. This has led to a distorted view of God and a distorted view of humanity.'),(1054,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1686,1339872927,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi tom lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you. It seems more of the Church needs to practice your example, as concerns \"spewing their hateful words,\"  or what my group calls \"attraction rather than promotion.\" Saint Francis said it best (I may be paraphrasing a bit), \"Preach the gospel always, and where necessary, use words.\" \r\nCan I \"preach\" the gospel? It is something that gets a yes and no answer. If the product doesn\'t work, my poor attitude and outlook, why buy it?.Yet being honest about the why of my poor attitude and outlook is usually a draw and not a mark against my faith. With friends of the faith or otherwise, I feel it is a mistake to take the \"fruit of the spirit\" as behavorial modification techniques: act like a Christian. They come as needed when the time is right. To me, this \"acting like a Christian\" is a disservice to all involved and inhibits the movement of spirit. The Pharisees acted like holy men.'),(1055,'facedown@mac.com',1687,1340128110,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Caedmon Michael\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI\'m not against high-production-value worship services. I\'m just against making them the center of Christian life. I like good music and, while I don\'t need lights and smoke, I appreciate worship leaders who are skilled, well rehearsed, and using their talents to the utmost. The problem comes when we put all our resources (money, time, and people) into on-campus worship services and don\'t effectively take the gospel off campus into the world around us.\r\n\r\nI don\'t have a problem with doctrine, either. We need doctrine! Only, we need right doctrine, which is the doctrine of love (grace) you are getting at instead of the false doctrine of control that shows up in too many western churches. Good doctrine, like the gospel from which it comes, will set us free to love one another (Galatians 5). Let\'s keep talking as a church about what this right doctrine is and learn how to operate out of grace and love as you discern.'),(1056,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1688,1340131203,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi gerard lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThe problem as I see it is that we are dealing with distinct paradigms. In the sanctification process, there appears to be a definite threshold point, a line we cross where our whole attitude and outlook changes: we get what I see as a deeper vision of truth, the growing ability to clearly discern soul from spirit, finite from eternal. Those who have yet to reach or cross that threshold, cannot possibly comprehend what lies on the other side.The changes in attitude and outlook of those who have crossed the line looks like apostasy or madness from the pre-threshold point of view, such as the attitude about mysticism from the conservative stance. \r\nEgoic needs (Certainty, Control, Safety) still hold way in First-Halfers; letting go of those needs seems the same as leaving the faith, for they have become so intertwined as to be indsitinguishable.'),(1057,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1689,1340132987,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi gerard lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nIt came to me one morning, in the middle of my daily To Do List, that \'integrity has no intent.\' I did not comprehend this message immediately. For me, intention made me who I was and what I believed in. My motivations deeply mattered. Then over the months I began to observe, just glimpse, what those words meant. The Father does the works...if I completely open to His care. My only action is surrender out of love; it is not to do or achieve anything else. The one virtue is \"kidding\" myself, allowing for the grace \"to become as a little child.\" A child\'s innocence is unintended. If I need to think about being patient or honest or caring and then act accordingly, believing this is how a Christian should act, I miss the mark. Such \"acting\" has to die to \"becoming\" as Christ, and for that, again, surrender is the only path. I am to live by inspiration, not motivation. I am to become simply a means without ends.\r\nThis way is still new to me and still occasional, but it is an entirely new outlook that I feel can only be gotten by grace. No merit.'),(1058,'vika.99@gmail.com',1690,1340641361,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi V Cooper\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nLOL... that\'s all I can say'),(1059,'vika.99@gmail.com',1692,1340641361,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi V Cooper\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nTears... &lt;3'),(1060,'vika.99@gmail.com',1691,1340641362,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi V Cooper\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nHear, Hear!'),(1061,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1693,1340651615,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi gerard lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nIs it actual love or \"ought to\"?\r\n“It ain’t nothing if it ain’t free, babe.”  (Janis)   \r\n“The left hand doesn\'t know what the right hand is doing.” (Christ)\r\n“Perfect kindness acts without thinking of kindness.”  (Tao) \r\n“The results are nil until we let go absolutely.” (AA) \r\n\r\nIn the verse, \"Love your neighbor as yourself,\" the emphasis is on \"as yourself\": your neighbor is yourself. Can I boast of charity for getting breakfast as I like it in a restaurant? Feeding the hungry is no different. Their need is the growl of my stomach. To give them food is my sustenance. \r\nThat is the place I yearn to be. I have had moments, I feel, of being truly and cleanly other-centered; my actions were natural and it appeared without thought for my interests or self . My left hand really did not know what the right was doing. A fruit of grace. \r\nThis helped me to see that the only thing I can sacrifice for God and others is merely that which stands in the way or diminishes what is for my greatest freedom and deepest joy in Christ. In effect, there is no sacrifice.'),(1062,'rayrayc17@live.com',1694,1340661246,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nIf you really are a learner, I might suggest that you\'ve picked a poor place to learn. Throwing a question like this out onto the vastness of the Internet is a bad place to find advice on the living God. In fact, I might argue that asking man for his opinion of God is a great way to start a new religion. Religion of old and modern is littered with gods who have appendages, gods who are made by men who desire sex sacrifices, and gods who have idols that bear sexual symbols. These aren\'t new.\r\n\r\nI\'d even argue that if you\'re really serious about the living God, (if you are talking about the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, the God spoken of in the New Testament by Jesus Christ), then you might start there. Please don\'t hear me as being sarcastic or mean, but there are a lot of places to start learning instead of throwing such an important question out to other people to answer - especially if you\'re about to base your belief system upon it.\r\n\r\nFriend, you have some religious education listed on your biography, so I assume you have some knowledge of where to start. Jesus Christ, who made claims of divinity gave some good starting places in the Gospel of John. Without quoting any of the Bible except the book of John, just take John 4:24 where Jesus says, \"God is spirit.\" \r\n\r\nSurely most of the questions have been asked and the answers to even the most ridiculous questions are out there, right? Asking questions without purpose isn\'t going to move us toward belief if the answers are already out there.\r\n\r\nPaul addressed a lot of people with questions on Mars Hill in Acts 17 when he accused them of having many gods - then said basically, \"let me tell you about this unknown God you seem to be seeking.\" \r\n\r\nI\'m encouraging you to find a starting place. Is your point about feminism? That men have tried to make God into a man so they can oppress women? Then that\'s a different issue than God having appendages or not. The answers aren\'t to be found by asking humanity - that\'s how we form our unorthodox ideas and wrong beliefs. \r\n\r\nI suppose the bottom line is this (and forgive me if I\'ve misread your post) - has God revealed himself? And if he has, what does he have to say about himself?'),(1063,'jb@thriven.org',1695,1340663537,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jonathan Brink\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nRay, some conversations are asked because we need to ask them, not because we need the answer.  Provoketive is a space to explore those questions.  Please consider that.'),(1064,'facedown@mac.com',1696,1340666336,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Caedmon Michael\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI appreciate your concern, Ray. To be clear, I am not asking others to answer this for me. Rather, I am asking these questions, studying them by looking at what Scripture, Reason, Tradition and Experience have to say, and then inviting others into the learning process. This last piece is important both because what I learn might be helpful to others and because comments from others (like yours) will keep me from diverting too far from Tradition too quickly.\r\n\r\nI am asking questions about God because that is what I am interested in at the moment. I want to know why we assume the gender roles we place on God (male or neuter) and why we don\'t assume others. I hope this becomes clearer as I continue to write.'),(1065,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1697,1340679245,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi jerry lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nCan we study these questions by looking at what Scripture, Reason, Tradition, and Experience have to say? How does our perception change, deepen, to discover the new and unknown? Doesn\'t it come down to having \"the eyes to see\"? Where do we get that vision?\r\nOur very best motivations for the pursuit of truth are nothing compared to inspiration. In fact, all motivations are suspect and none pure. Contemplative prayer, the surrender of reliance on all supports to faith and judgment, seems the only way to realize (\"discover and bring into being\")'),(1066,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1698,1340679245,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi jerry lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nSorry. As I was saying, \'...the only way to realize...\' the depths of soul and spirit.  It is like a Zen Koan: made to overwhelm the ordinary workings, beliefs, and values of the \"false self\" (ego). \r\nLook at the thousands of sects in Christianity; they, too, tried to study these things with the safety net of their Tradition and Hermenautics, Reason seemingly rightfully in charge. \r\nThe Bible is a children\'s book, the vision we need to have to get the plot, the message, to see with the necessary heart of discovery, one must have the vision of a Little Child.'),(1067,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1699,1340687950,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi jerry lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThe sub-conscious in us all is the puppet-master: what we most often think of as choice, is an echoed command from below...righteously and unflinchingly followed.  Any motivation is an impurity. All motivations are so diluted and delusional that our grandest intention is no more than lurking vanity.\r\n\r\nYet this cycle can be broken--and that is the deeper purpose of the Twelve Step Path. To realize this purpose usually means slow torture, the steady and nearly unrelenting \"necessary suffering\" that comes with self-realization. There appears to be no \"easier and softer way.\" A good 6th and 7th Step translates, usually, into the very worst time of our lives. \r\n\r\nEverything about life is left up in the air and the only thing that we know for sure is how badly we acted. All certainty about the sacred and profane is gone. All comforting support to faith and being is stripped away. The next moment becomes so entirely unknown and strange that we do not have the mind or will to venture a guess. The ground beneath our feet has given way to an unfathomable abyss. We hover, aloft in ambiguity and ambivalence, still only from unknowing. And \"unknowing\" is the home of the soul.\r\n\r\nMany are discouraged from remaining in this place, the well-intentioned throwing ropes, deploying boats, coming in helicopters to take us from this obvious \"bad place\" to the safe shore of Reason, Tradition, and Principles. Evil seems to be underfoot and gaining yards, so why not desperate measures. A soul appears ready to be lost.  And it is, but not in the way assumed.\r\n\r\nUnless intimately experienced, we tend to think it is “alcoholism raising its ugly head”; “the ego looking to take back control”; “faith assaulted”; “the failure to properly work this \'simple program.\'\" All lies...if we have truly reached the threshold point of fundamental transformation. That point is free-fall.\r\n\r\n\"Good is enemy of the best.\" \r\n\r\nWe all tirelessly and always work for good, as one\'s perceptions dictates. It is in breaking this cycle of our estimation of doing “the next good or right thing” that salvation finally comes. \r\n\r\nNothing that is truly new can be understood by a consciousness that looks to compare, measure, and weigh it by past experience, study, or text books. Give a TV to a caveman and it is firewood or a cutting tool, once broken. The incomprehension of this movement of the soul is similar.'),(1068,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1700,1340690503,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi jerry lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThe sub-conscious in us all is the puppet-master: what we most often think of as choice, is an echoed command from below...righteously and unflinchingly followed.  Any motivation is an impurity. All motivations are so diluted and delusional that our grandest intention is no more than lurking vanity, a \"stumbling block\" that appears as a paving stone to a firm path.\r\nYet this cycle can be broken--and that is the deeper purpose of the Twelve Step Path. To realize this purpose usually means slow torture, the steady and nearly unrelenting \"necessary suffering\" that comes with self-realization. There appears to be no \"easier and softer way.\" A good 6th and 7th Step translates, usually, into the very worst time of our lives. \r\nEverything about life is left up in the air and the only thing that we know for sure is how badly we acted. All certainty about the sacred and profane is gone. All comforting support to faith and being is stripped away. The next moment becomes so entirely unknown and strange that we do not have the mind or will to venture a guess. The ground beneath our feet has given way to an unfathomable abyss. We hover, aloft in ambiguity and ambivalence, still only from unknowing. \r\nMany are discouraged from remaining in this place, the well-intentioned throwing ropes, deploying boats, coming in helicopters to take us from this obvious \"bad place\" to the safe shore of Reason, Tradition, and Principles. Evil seems to be underfoot and gaining yards, so why not desperate measures. A soul appears ready to be lost.  And it is, but not in the way assumed.\r\nUnless intimately experienced, we tend to think it is “alcoholism raising its ugly head”; “the ego looking to take back control”; “faith assaulted”; “the failure to properly work this \'simple program.\'\" All lies...if we have truly reached the threshold point of fundamental transformation. That point is free-fall.\r\n\"Good is enemy of the best.\" \r\nWe all tirelessly and always work for good, as one\'s perceptions dictates. It is in breaking this cycle of our estimation of doing “the next good or right thing” that salvation finally comes. \r\nNothing that is truly new can be understood by a consciousness that looks to compare, measure, and weigh it by past experience and text books. Give a TV to a caveman and it is firewood or a cutting tool, once broken. The incomprehension of this movement of the soul is similar.'),(1069,'Buddynet02@att.net',1701,1340707342,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Buddy aka Beverly\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nJerry Lynch, I don\'t get what your comment about perceptions and the Twelve Step Program have to do with the subject at hand, that being the sexuality of God, and is God/Goddess just a spirit or does he/she have an actually physical body and only one sex.  Could you tie the question in with your comments to make a little more sense in the context of the original question.  \r\n\r\nThank you.'),(1070,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1703,1340846077,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi jerry lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nMy response had to do with all questioning of and questions about truth. Getting the eyes to see is of primary focus. Until then, all spiritual answers are gossip and rumors; meaning of the mind, a product of the critical intellect, and not a state of being. \r\nI shared about AA because that is where I began to understand the process of transformation. Earlier I said that \'paradox is the native tongue of mystics.\' Paradoxes such as \"the last shall be first\" and \"to live you must die\" cannot be directly approached by Reason. \r\nOur emphasis and direction needs to be our vision, how we see. All our \"adult\" machinations of analysis and study serve either our vanity or our biases. Immaculate perception is that of the Little Child. Jesus told us this. The Bible is a Children\'s book, and unless we turn, and BECOME as a little child, we remain blind.'),(1071,'facedown@mac.com',1704,1340846338,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Caedmon Michael\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nIn other words, you\'re complexly saying you don\'t see value in the question? That\'s fair; just say so, if that\'s the case. The validity of the question is certainly worthy of discussion.'),(1072,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1705,1340858827,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi jerry lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nCaedmon, sorry, are you talking to me? I see a validity in almost any question (with the few notable exceptions of who buys my clothes and what happened in \'69.). The nature of this question is, to me, lovably rakish, a noble irreverence that reminds me of how Jesus caught people unawares and thus open to a deeper understanding. \r\nSorry for my verbosity and abstruseness; and I always think that I am clarifying. My point is really simple: how do we approach such questions? Blunt force, trying to crack it open with the hammer of our critical intellect? Do we try to work within the known of our tradition and accepted dogma? Or is there another, and surer, path to discovery?'),(1073,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1706,1340859833,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi jerry lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nIt all comes down to how we see and interpret. We all have filters. a generous dose of worldliness that can blind or impinge clarity of the spiritual. So many of us decide on truth long before we have any clue what it looks like or how to recognize it. Or we go on a search without the equipment for discovery, thinking we are naturally equipped to realize something totally alien to our experience and education. Funny, but really tragic.\r\nFor me, the questions cannot be approached directly; the answers are not in what I find but.what finds me: divine providence after my complete abandonment out of desperation, frustration, loss, failure, or disillusionment. These \"awful mercies\" of God help restore my vision, because I am left with no choice but trust in him, or where I needed to be all along.'),(1074,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1707,1340860494,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi jerry lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThe gracious demands of fellowship and advancemnet of the kingdom welcomes a rebuke. I am not looking to be right about the gospel; I am looking to be true to the gospel, and for that I need all the help I can get. We can end up being \"too gentle\" or \"too kind.\" Disagreement is not necessarily attack. Civility is good, yet sometimes we are just too fevered to pay it much mind, looking solely to make our point. Kind or cold we are still each charged with being open and looking for the spirit of what another is saying. To that end, usually asking questions instead of making accusations works better. This is not directed to anyone here; I state this because I am, as mentioned, wanting to be true to the gospel. Correct me even if clumsily or cruelly; we\'ll sort it out later.'),(1075,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1711,1340909632,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi gerard lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI agree. In \'66, I was in my second year at the University of Maryland on a track and field scholarship--and a draft exemption. If you know about that era  U of M was home to SDS, students for a democratic society. The Jocks, of which I was supposed to count myself a member in great standing, hated these dirty, long-haired not sure if it was hippies or beatniks then. Anti-American not to slaughter villagers in foreign lands and just plain cowardice. \r\nBut I did not need to listen to SDS, although I did, to find my position on war. To me, my faith in Christ made it abundantly clear: war is worldliness and as such enmity against God, never mind the great harm it does to the \"least of these\"; it actually creates them.\r\nWhat SDS did help me decide was to do something about what I believed, but a vain political and divisive protest was not it. I would volunteer for the draft, going infantry all the way, and show them that a Christian does not return evil for evil. \r\nThe lady at the Selective Service Board tried to vigorously dissuade me from changing my status; this was remarkable and may give an indication where my plan was actually headed. \r\nThe story is too long but I never got to make my point, yet not for lack of much concerted effort on my part. I have had forty-six years of pondering and praying over this issue and see no room for a Christian to be an armed combatant for any government. This seems so blatantly plain to me today, it seems quite odd that it somehow remains a question for any of the faithful and sane.\r\nI have been to services where they say The Pledge of Allegiance at the start and refuse to join in. I also feel flags of any nation do not belong in churches. Yes, we are to submit to the governing authorities but we are not, in my eyes, to be patriots: \"have a love of country and zeal for its interest.\" \r\nThanks for sharing.'),(1076,'lanashaw@gmail.com',1709,1340914170,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi lanasuzz\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI appreciate this site and the conversations that come up here.  However, as I read this article and the comments this is honestly what is going on in my head:  \r\n\r\nThey can theorize about this all day long, but what do I do with the fact that I have actually experienced Satan and demons firsthand, AND I\'ve experienced the way they react to the Name of Jesus... ?  \r\n\r\nYou can\'t tell me Satan isn\'t real.  I guess you can call me crazy, but I\'ll err on the side of being called a lunatic (Jesus and John the B were) or perhaps a fool (I believes He\'s called \"fools\" to confound the \"wise\" and really intelligent, critical human thinkers).  I have to speak up here and say to those reading, believe me, Satan is real, and he is NOT God, he has NO POWER except the power we give him (that is where he and God are different), and one of his strategies is to get us to believe he does not exist.  \r\n\r\nThere is power in the Name of Jesus.'),(1077,'lanashaw@gmail.com',1710,1340914171,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi lanasuzz\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nAnd why do we have to classify everything and fit it into our boxes or else it\'s invalid?  Why do we have to classify Satan?  He is a being, as we are, he is spirit, not bound by flesh although able to take on the form of flesh, he was created by God just as we and he has power (if we give it to him) just as we have power if people give it to us.  God is STILL over him as we see in Job where Satan asks God permission for things.  That one instance you refer to where one account says David\'s account of the people was the Lord\'s hand and one was the enemy shows this perfectly.  Satan goes always before God\'s throne after having roamed the earth looking for a \"case\" he can present before a God he knows is just.  Satan rightly saw the pride in David\'s heart and made a case to incite him to number the Israelites.  (This is why Satan is called the accuser because he constantly is bringing accusations before the Lord against us -- praise God for Jesus, as now we can satisfy God\'s justice with the atonement and silence our accuser; sadly too many don\'t understand this principle and so we see many Christians viewing Satan as one whom has more power than he does, and they live in defeat).    \r\n\r\nSo some may rightly say God in his authority and perfect sovereignty brought David to make the census (it wasn\'t God who caused the sin in David\'s heart, but rather God who saw the sin of pride in his heart and allowed the fruit of that sin to come forth to show David what was in his own heart) and some may rightly say that Satan was the one who brought it on (as it was he who tempted the pride in David to bring it to manifest fruit).  \r\n\r\nThanks for reading and for exchanging ideas with love and respect!'),(1078,'revjohnson@shaw.ca',1708,1340914171,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jason\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nIt seems extremely petty to me, along with being unbiblical and--from a Christian perspective--unethical.  What does Mars Hill Seattle hope to accomplish?  Are they gonna stand around high-fiving each other?  Is Mark gonna get a big pat on the back and a \"job well done\" by his staff?  They can\'t trademark the name Mars Hill because it\'s in the Bible.  Anyone can use the term if they want to.  It\'s as silly as (reportedly) Paris Hilton wanting to copyright the term, \"That\'s hot.\"  If Mark truly wants his church to be effective in society \"that\'s not\" the way to go about it.'),(1079,'Buddynet02@att.net',1712,1340987608,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Buddy aka Beverly\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI appreciate your article and have often pondered this myself.  For some reason war and Christianity all seemed to be wrapped together in the American flag, don\'t they?\r\n\r\nA popular picture statement going around on Facebook shows a Bible and a gun and says something to the effect of these are two things that are not taught in school but should be.  A couple of my relatives \"like\" a Facebook page called something like \"Bibles, Babies and Guns.\"  How did such incongruious items ever become all mixed together like that.  And why are so called \"pro-life\" people the same ones who also seem pro-war?\r\n\r\nI\'ve had many an argument with so-called Conservative Christians, and they all seem to resent social programs that help the poor.  So I\'ve asked them even if they don\'t care about \"the least of them\" don\'t they care about themselves?  Don\'t they think that in making already poor people even more desperate by cutting programs that are getting them by, if this will create crime as they start to come after what you have?  The answer is usually if that happens they will stand behind their guns.  In other words, they would rather shoot someone than help them.\r\n\r\nSo, your article is very timely and perhaps as Christians, maybe we should be asking each other \"Who would Jesus kill?\"'),(1080,'kglethean@gmail.com',1713,1341072626,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Kevin Gonzaga\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nGerard,\r\n\r\nThanks for your comments.  \r\n\r\nI think a huge challenge around this issue is that it used to be \"blatantly plain\" to me (and it still is to many others) that Christians serving in wars is okay because that has been the status quo for so long. The long history of Christians participating in wars sadly often overshadows our call to non-violence and the ways of peace. Taking the time to point that out can be very difficult and can cost you.\r\n\r\n-Kevin'),(1081,'kglethean@gmail.com',1714,1341072838,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Kevin Gonzaga\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nBaB,\r\n\r\nThanks for taking the time to read the article and comment!\r\n\r\nThis is obviously a generalization but I fear Christianity in America is thoroughly compromised by capitalism, nationalism, and politics (among other things).  Christian leaders (pastors and politicians) use fears to stay in power instead of teaching about the God of Israel and pointing people to Jesus. This has many of the followers of Jesus doing the exact opposite of what Jesus taught, even as they claim that their behavior is the one true path of \"real\" Christians.\r\n\r\n-Kevin\r\n\r\nP.S. We (Christians) would kill Jesus.'),(1082,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1715,1341089766,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi jerry lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nKevin, yes, it is costly, in a way. The accusations and bitterness that come from other Christians with taking this stand is formidable. And sometimes it is enriching.\r\nI work at a small Christian TV station with two highly Conservative Christians who are also retired military. We have had many, er, spirited discussions over a number of issues, including this one. We all somehow manage to keep civility and kindness at the fore, no matter how strongly we disagree. And that has helped us all grow.\r\n\r\nThe \"What about Hitler?\" argument was interesting. Then there was, of course, the supposed scriptural support for war by citing OT battles. The answer to both of these is so simple it defies acceptance. If not for Christians engaged in politics instead of advancing the kingdom, there would have been no rise to power for Hitler or WWII. What if you declared a war and nobody showed up? \r\nThe kingdom of God in the OT was a physical one and the temple of God was a structure. Retributive (eye for an eye), not Restorative (7 x 70), justice was in play that demanded physical punishment.  A tutelary period. God tried to discourage the top down government of kings but allowed the Jews the consequences of their desires.\r\nThe NT is different: Our kingdom is not of this world. We do not fight with the weapons of this world. We do not return evil for evil. One rule, as found in Romans 13 (of all places): love your neighbor.\r\nWhen did this shift take place? As you know, after the resurrection. Of course Jesus could send out his apostles with a  sword, yet might that have been to demonstrate that they need not rely upon it, a useless weight to carry? And might not his instruction to carry a sword suit their progress in truth? Another necessary lesson?\r\nJesus did not look to dissuade the Centurion from his duties as a soldier. Is it necessary to say that Jesus could read his heart, this one who showed the greatest faith? With such a demonstration of faith, his heart belonged to God; he would act accordingly in the future and such actions might \'turn\" others away from violence. All maybes yet why are these things used so assiduously as solid ground for being armed combatants in war?\r\nNothing of the New Covenant supports war or political partisanship or patriotism for a worldly power. While it does, in fact, speak plainly against such activities in any number of verses about \"worldliness.\"\r\nI just needed to say all that for me.'),(1083,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1717,1341112082,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi jerry lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nA voice crying in the wilderness.... \r\nThe health care system in America is a mess. The reason health insurance came into being by employers was not seeing a need and looking to fill it, a perceived moral duty, but just as a lure during WWII to entice a highly limited work force. Our present Insurance Industry is purely about the bottom line and will trade lives for profit, and does so daily. \r\nAny decent person who would take a fair and impartial at what goes on in this country regarding the state of health care would be horrified at it and enraged at those who oppose ACA. The lies told about before and now by the Right about this Act has left an indelible stain of disgrace. The affluent unwilling even to throw crumbs from their table, giving a few hundred thousand children a stone when they needed an aspirin.\r\nThe ugliness being shown in the last few days after the Court ruling by the Right and Conservative Christians, the venemous statements and specious distortions, clearly demonstrartes where the divisiveness in this country stems. Calling a Supreme Court Justice a \"coward,\" a \"traitor,\" and \"sick\" for ruling on a point of law as his vast expertise dictated is scurrilous. The result of pouting over not hurting President Obama, who they had vowed from his inaugaration to make a one term preseident. Why? \r\nThe Church has marshalled the vast majority of its resources to fight against abortion and homosexuality, with a touch of hate at Islam. That literally hundreds of thousands of children suffer and die needlessly in this country from lack of proper care, fully conscious in their drawn-out illness and agony,  is a fact overlooked by most Christians because of their partisan politics.'),(1084,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1718,1341113179,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi jerry lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nAlso, let us not forget it was Right Wing policy that created this economic mess and near-ruin of America with the de-regulation of Wall Street and the Banking Industry and their then unchecked greed as policy. \r\nThe Right tried to blame an intiative to make buying a house by slightly reducing the prerequisites. Seeing the enormous profit in bundling mortgages, the banks on their own recklessly and drastically reduced those prerequisites and ship it off. \r\nBy these careless acts of pandering to the rich, a million or more hard-working people were made destitute and in need of assistance: doesn\'t the country owe them that much?\r\nThe Right is steadily destroying America as we knew it for nothing more than profit, a new social darwinism that treats an unfair advantage of money and privilage in the same way gangs fed on the defenseless, proud of their unfair tactics.'),(1085,'Buddynet02@att.net',1719,1341162241,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Buddy aka Beverly\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you for a wonderfully well written article.  Yes, we can\'t say we are followers of Jesus as long as we take on the attitude of \"I\'ve got mine; to heck with you!\"  Yet I see this attitude over and over with my Christian conservative friends and relatives.\r\n\r\nI once had an argument with such a man (actually had this argument with several, but am thinking of one particular circumstance).  He was, like every conservative I\'ve ever talked to, totally against paying more taxes and felt that the rich pay enough.  I pointed out to him that Jesus told us to pay our taxes.  He agreed that this is true, that Jesus said to render unto Caesar what is Caesars. . .BUT, said he, Jesus didn\'t say that any of those taxes were to be designated toward helping the poor and furthermore, he felt that private charities and churches could do enough and that those programs just weren\'t necessary.\r\n\r\nFirst I pointed out to him that people who have lost their jobs due to outsourcing and downsizing who are beginning to see their unemployment running out, desperate people with families that have been responsible tax payers themselves and are in this situation through no fault of their own, are going to need a bit more than some gently used clothes, a bag of beans, maybe some potatoes and a couple boxes of macaroni and cheese and that passing around that special offering plate in church is not going to get them very far, maybe a couple of days at the most.  Then I told him that I agreed with him that Jesus didn\'t get to tell Caesar what to do with the tax money he collected, but I do think that since the \"least of them\" were such a high priority to Jesus, I couldn\'t help but think he would approve of that idea.\r\n\r\nI even gave him this scenario--Suppose Caesar HAD sought Jesus\' advice on what to do with the tax money.  Suppose he showed Jesus around his castle and said look at this place, gold and oppulence everywhere, all my wives are dressed in the finest silk and covered with jewels, even my servants wear the finest polished cotton, my chariot is pulled by the finest horses ever bred.  Where do you think this latest tax collection can best be applied.  Jesus takes Caesar on a walk around his kingdom starting with the Marketplace where the beggars and the blind sit in misery hoping for a moment\'s kindness, mercy and generosity from some passer-by.  Then go into some of the poorest homes with hungry families and often filled with the sick and the dying.  And finally a walk passed the leper camps.  Jesus, standing with his arm around Caesar\'s shoulder, asks him if he sees anywhere that latest tax collection could be put to good use.  Of course, the final say so still belongs to Caesar, and from what I\'ve been seeing lately from the so-called Christian Right, he may well have gone back to his castle and sent his buyers in pursuit of more fine baubles to enhance his self-image of the very rich and powerful man he wants others to see.\r\n\r\nAfter having this conversation, the next day I had a similar conversation with another self-described Christian conservative, and the first thing out of his mouth was, \"I\'m not giving into any charities.  Those lazy freeloaders can just go to work like I have to.\"\r\n\r\nSo much for Christian charity.  So much for showing the heart and mercy of Christ.  So much for Christ and his principals.  Score 10 for Ayn Rand, the other rightwing idol!'),(1086,'jb@thriven.org',1720,1341272946,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jonathan Brink\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nSujith, can you elaborate more on your thoughts.'),(1087,'suji251@hotmail.com',1716,1341272947,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Sujith\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nSex is for marriage only.'),(1088,'jeff@hometownprophetbook.com',1722,1341323395,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jeff Fulmer\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThanks Jerry and Buddy/Bev for your comments.   I\'ve had many such discussions that devolved into arguments about healthcare over the last few days.  I, too, have been taken back by the venomous attacks of those that oppose healthcare.   It\'s bewildering and absurd to hear Christians try to twist and turn scriptures to fit into a very selfish political ideology.   \r\n\r\nBev, I liked your attempt by imagining Jesus and Caesar walking and talking about the best ways to spend the tax revenues.   Unfortunately, what you often find at the root of their argument is a disdain for the poor.   In their defense, maybe they\'ve worked hard and are slipping behind - and they are looking for a scape goat.... That welfare millionaire who\'s milking the system.  Of course, that\'s a myth... but it gives them someone to blame for their own problems.  Not that that\'s an excuse.    \r\n\r\nI\'m not sure what to do, except try to engage with these people.  Open up the scriptures and perhaps invite them to get to know some of the everyday victims of the current system.    And pray!'),(1089,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1723,1341334683,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi gerard lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nBrilliant, thank you so much. I have been anti-war as a Christian for so long that I stopped looking at why; it\'s been at least fifty years now. Also, I never felt it necessary to develop in-depth arguments for my stance because the truth of the matter looked so abundantly obvious, so extraordinarily simple and straightforward that if anyone did not see this truth, nothing could convince him or her. After reading your piece, I see how blind I was and wrong not to make a more concerted effort to bring understanding. Spiritual pride, although that may have come later after years of being battered for my belief in non-violence. I give up and settled on being \"superior\": funny and very sad.  So thank very much for helping me to see as well this sin in myself.  If it doesn\'t make me a better spokesperson, it has already made me a little wiser.'),(1090,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1724,1341513569,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi gerard lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nIf that 5% is indeed true, Ray, the Church is in serious trouble. Conversion is supposed to produce a metanoia, change of mind (heart). \r\n\r\nWe see what a profound realization of our mortality can produce by looking at the effects of Near Death Experiences (NDEs).\r\nFor the majority, their \"whole attitude and outlook upon life\" is fundamentally altered to a new and joyous direction in an extremely brief period of time--without effort or intent, without the help of any belief system or ideal, without the instruction from any preacher, guru, or holy book, without any apparent penance or process.  All they had to do to \"achieve\" this wondrous and Dynamic Conversion was to have the good grace to...die.  \r\n\r\nThe Recovery process is, as well, a form of metanoia.  \r\n\r\nI think it safe to say that we can safely throw out that textbook, at least I pray we can.'),(1091,'rayrayc17@live.com',1725,1341520354,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nGerard, thanks for the comment. Thanks for clarifying. I was probably not very clear. I was speaking more to worldview thought change and not conversion. It does take a work of God to change the heart. When we change our views on a topic, I think a change similar to conversion takes place as well. There have been a lot of books and studies done on the topic. Interesting how our firmly held beliefs are so strong and need a sort of conversion to be changed.'),(1092,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1726,1341544407,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi jerry lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nRay, my apologies; my response was rather flippant. About an hour after I posted, I realized I had not given your excellent blog the attention it deserved. And then I got busy and forgot.\r\nFor almost thirty years of being in a Recovery Program, witnessing change in worldviews has become matter of fact; opening to change is a basic principle and daily occurrence. Yet your question went deeper than these observations. Once that change has occurred, how open are those people to change again or question how they got where they did?\r\n\r\nThis topic is not new to me. I have a masters in clinical psychology and more to the point I have been a lifelong student of spiritual paths and philosophies. Obviously, people do not believe in anything they do not take as truth: why abandon these, often hard-won, lessons?  Experience, the intimacy of revealed \"truth,\" takes precedent. The past becomes the textbook. Yet we all have filters, ways of seeing and interpreting events according to old messages. Self-prophecizing. All of us tend to see things as we are rather than as they are (paraphrasing Nin and Buddha and Jesus). \r\nThe NEED for certainty is a pathology. Faith demands no proof or supports. Two basic characteristics of true faith are an openness to discovery and the ability to hold ambiguity. The ego likes black and white and surety; it\'s survival rests on these things. Image is the life-blood and breath'),(1093,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1727,1341545809,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi jerry lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nImage is the life-blood and breath of being, and at direct and ever-lasting enmity against true faith (flesh against spirit). \r\n\r\nIf I have your intent right, the question is this: How can we be confidant in our understanding of the word as well as being open to changes in that view? Of course, I could say it is not about being right about scripture but about being true to scripture: big difference. How are we true to scripture? The right hermeneutics? Following the thoughts of Luther, Calvin, Wesley, or the Pope? \r\n\r\nThe basic error is being set in what we believe instead of how we believe. \"Turn, and become as little children.\" \"...BECOME as little children\": this is central to faith. It is a state of being, not a statement of belief, upon which we rest: complete surrender to the Holy Spirit as our teacher in all things. Where is the one place we can find the Holy Spirit? In the moment, for he is a lamp unto our feet: the perfect amount of illumination to light what is before us, past and future in the dark.\r\n\r\nChange cannot be approached from the mind, only from the heart.'),(1094,'rayrayc17@live.com',1728,1341546727,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nYou sir, should have penned this post and not me. \r\n\r\nYes, you have gotten at the heart of my poorly written, sarcastic post. I comment and write here and at times, I come across as a jerk. Know why? Because I can be. Because at the end of the day, all I have to offer God is my jerkiness. \r\n\r\nAnyway, back to your points, you are correct. How can we be sure of ourselves? That is one of the questions that has driven me since 1997. I believe that God has given us a way to know Him. I think there are times we get too comfortable and arrogant in our assumptions as well. I\'m thankful for Provoketive for different viewpoints. It\'s helped challenge me. \r\n\r\nWhat I have to realize is that I am not the center of this universe. There have been days I was convinced I was. There are still days I still think I am. All of mankind, since our inception, is self-deceived. That is why we look to God for answers and not to ourselves. But we continually do so. Like you said, we have a need for certainty. Too often though, we find that certainty within us or within our self-realized ideas of who we have made God to be. \r\n\r\nIt blows my mind every time I start thinking about this topic. When I start thinking about how wrong I am. About where my ideas come from. Then I become humbled and thank God for His Son. When it\'s all said and done, many days all I have is the resurrected Christ. And He is all I need. \r\n\r\nWow. That was a blog post, I think.'),(1095,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1729,1341547429,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi jerry lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI officially died twice: once when I, was seven, drowning in the surf of Rockaway, and the second time when I was eighteen, pronounced dead by EMTs from heat exhaustion. Neither experience translates well into words. When I discovered the Mystics at twenty (and I see Buddhism as a starved version of that path), it resonated far better than my Cradle Catholicism. But I was not convinced. Taught by the Jesuits, I questioned everything. I decided on the path of bubbly oblivion and became a drunk. \r\n\r\nLike the saint, the addict becomes more and more faithful to the object of their devotion, the revered choice of drink or drug (or wealth or power or fame or other worldly pursuits).  \r\nLike the saint, the addict becomes less and less interested and attached to other things in their world.  He or she will lose their car, house, teeth, family, and reputation yet never despair of or turn away from this “Beloved.”  \r\nLike the saint, when--if--the addict finally reaches a bottom, he or she is almost zenfully clean of worldly trappings, all \"fetters.\"  The addict has found renunciation through over-indulgence, non-attachment through over-dependence: a reverse (even perverse) yet nonetheless saintlike discovery about true freedom.\r\nYet in one aspect, the saint and the addict are the same: both are self-destructive (only the addict has a more literal interpretation of this vital spiritual practice).\r\n\r\n\"A living sacrifice\": this is our moment to moment path. To live, we must die. This is where we need to place our greatest emphasis. This is our basic sacrement and ritual. This is to eat and drink of Christ. It is not about what we know but where we are: self-centered or God-centered.'),(1096,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1730,1341549885,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi jerry lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nOops. Ray, I did not get a notice to your response until after my further rants. Once again my apologies; did not mean to talk over you like that. And you will never know how much I appreciate your follow-up comments. If I may be so bold (obnoxious) to comment further.\r\n\r\nFrom the time I was seven, right after I drowned, I loved only Jesus, literally. My religion became everything to me. But I had been twisted by worldiness in the form of a dysfunctional family system: shame was my primary emotion. \r\n\r\nThat aside for now. At fourteen, I went into the local everything-a-kid-would-want stores in Da Bronx to get the three Cs of life: a coke, candy bar, and a comicbook. I happened to notice a headline in one of the tabloids: \"God told me to eat my baby.\" For some reason, this shook me to my core; a HS moment. Up until that moment, I thoroughly believed everything the Roman Catholic Church put forth was \"the one, true faith.\" I left that store unsure, and have been in that place for fifty years.\r\n\r\nHow can I possibly be certain? Against what or with what can I finally decide? How do I know I am not deluded? How do I prove I am right? And all my readings since then helped to convince me it was impossible. Then what am I left with to live my life?\r\n\r\nMy conclusions: I cannot know or hold truth; I can only be Its expression. Love is the platform of all things Christian. If I come, through grace, to actually love my neighbor, what is for my ultimate well-being is made manifest. There is endless joy in this place, everytime. It is trust, a full emotional commitment, and not knowledge, a cautious commitment, that turns the tide. Fall into the abyss.\r\n\r\nKnowing something about you from your confession, I feel for your ache to know. I finally had to come to that place of letting go figuring it out for the (brutal) place of trust. Everything in me fought agains it.'),(1097,'steve.martin37@aol.com',1731,1341554578,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Steve Martin\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI wish I had a dollar for every time I have been wrong about  something in the Chritian faith.\r\n\r\nThanks be to God that He loves heretics, too!   :D'),(1098,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1732,1341563875,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi jerry lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI do not translate well into Christianity. Jonathan thought my urgings to be as a \"little child\" was literally about young children. I guess I shuold urge you to think outside the box or simply open to the spirit of what I, or anyone, is saying.'),(1099,'aleikenberry@yahoo.com',1733,1341590108,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Austin\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nWhile I have expressed my own frustrations at the cross of Evangelicalism, patriotism, and capitalism, Bill Maher goes a little far at a couple of points. First, there is a command to love your enemy, and pray for those who persecute you - the logic he presents assumes that you can\'t love someone even while recognizing the need for them to die. Can Jesus love Satan in the moment he condemns him to the lake of fire (as recorded in Revelation)? Can Jesus love the son of perdition while proclaiming that he has been handed over for torment? Justice and love are not incompatible.\r\n\r\nWhen he brings up the assassination of Bin Laden - he did deserve death, but so do we all. We are all sinners, and the wages of sin is death. Justice may even have required that he be killed by Americans (he claimed the mass murder of American citizens as one of his greatest accomplishments). It may have been appropriate for him to be assassinated; whether or not I like it, that\'s the whole story of Scripture. What does not sit with scripture is the celebration of his death. The glory in his destruction should be abhorrent as should be the political use of it.'),(1100,'csobalvarro@gmail.com',1734,1341592087,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Camille Sobalvarro\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nHe\'s an entertainer, he does go a bit far on some thing and doesn\'t necessarily present a totally accurate and complete view of Christian theology. Then again, I don\'t hold him accountable to doing that -- he\'s not a Christian!  The fact is, this makes me wince for two very different reasons. Number one, it disparages the Church, and I love the Church... as does Jesus, btw.  You can\'t do that without it hurting.  However, I also wince because WE who are a part of the Church have allowed this to become a real facet of how we\'re known in the world. It\'s not the only one, many are good, but there are many, MANY times when visible representatives of the Church have spoken things that don\'t accurately represent the character of Christ in us and we let it stand without public outcry.  We are known as judgmental of the world, which we should not be.  However, if the world saw us as judgmental of OURSELVES, truly correcting in love and for the sake of Christ\'s reputation, I believe we\'d see VERY different perceptions of the Church.  It\'s time we started being serious about holding each other to account, for the sake of each other AND for the sake of the reputation of Christ and His church whom He loves.'),(1101,'rayrayc17@live.com',1735,1341609718,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nJordan, I enjoyed your viewpoint on this. Believe it or not, I\'m working on a book review of this tome for Provoketive. I\'m doing it for a lot of reasons. I think books are more than books - they carry a message. And like you said, people need to be careful about what they read. I published a blog post today on my blog about what I\'ll be writing next week and I quoted your article there - http://fallenpastor.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/exciting-upcoming-posts-on-fallenpastor-com/\r\n\r\nAnyway, thank you for sharing your heart here because I plan on quoting your article in my book review. God bless.'),(1102,'jordanhageman@gmail.com',1736,1341619922,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jordan Hageman\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nRay, looking forward to reading your point of view! Jordan'),(1103,'rayrayc17@live.com',1737,1341621664,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nMaher is a voice outside of Christianity looking in, but that doesnt make his points less valid. It took me a while to break out of the war-like attitude I had and understand it wasn\'t biblical. Maher is right about torture as well. Why do Christians tolerate it?\r\n\r\nHe does go a long way with his points, using very broad strokes to talk about a lot of problems. Those broad strokes paint the picture of a lot of people who don\'t feel the same way. That\'s one of the reasons it\'s important for each Christian to make his or her voice heard. \r\n\r\nI\'m anti-war, anti-torture and anti-big government. I don\'t want to see anyone harmed. I don\'t say that because I want anyone outside of Christianity to approve of me. I want to fall in line with what Christ taught. We are called to bring light and peace. \r\n\r\nThose who throw jabs have their own reasons, but it doesn\'t mean they don\'t see some morsel of truth. It can open dialogue to help us point the light not to how Christians are practicing Christianity, but to the Christ who came to save us.'),(1104,'Buddynet02@att.net',1738,1341679477,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Buddy aka Beverly\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nMainstream Christianity took a wrong turn 30 years ago when the \"Prosperity Doctrine\" began making its way into the churches.  Then the resurgeance of Ayn Rand\'s \"Atlas Shrugged\" somehow became part of the mantra and not only did selfishness become acceptable, but somehow for many \"The Christian Way.\"\r\n\r\nAlso it seems to me that it is those who want \"small government\" that also want to impose the most rules on society.  We say we support our troops, yet we do so little for our returning veterans.  We are supposed to heal the sick and help the poor if we are trying to emulate Christ, yet the right wants to cut cut cut programs that do this.  We say we are against abortion, yet we resent things like free school lunches which may be the only decent meal some poor children get that day.  We defend the corporations that took jobs out of the country to get out of paying a living wage to their fellow Americans and we say it was the greed of the worker, not the greedy corporation that caused this.  We revere the rich and don\'t want them to pay their fair share of taxes, crying that the rich pay enough already.  Yes, they pay a lot, but not the same percentage the working class pays. \r\n\r\nI still consider myself a Christian, yet I think most people who call themselves have their values all twisted and that what they believe is nearly the opposite of what Christ taught us.  We ARE'),(1105,'Buddynet02@att.net',1739,1341679575,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Buddy aka Beverly\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nSorry--I got cut off before I was through with my comment.  We ARE judgmental and try to impose our values on everyone, and that is not Christian nor is it the American way.  Now I\'m through.'),(1106,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1740,1341705296,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi jerry lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nBrother Ray, you are a blessing. Fearlessly baring you soul\'s journey like this is a gift of hope. Admitting \"that you knew a long time ago that you could talk to God in uncensored prayer\" but pride or whatever (you did not mention) kept you blind to this truth is refreshing. To admit that with all your seminary training and years in ministry that this \"mere congregant\" knew more about a right relationship with God renews my faith in the power to heal. Perhaps you needed to fall to get this openness to truth, although I would say that it was \"falling upward.\" What an enormous blessing! And you seem to be releasing from the importance of your \"fall\"; this is also a great step forward. It really is a trivial matter. And there will come a day when all your troubles are nothing more than an elucidating footnote to playing a part in bringing the work of Joy Wilson to others.'),(1107,'rayrayc17@live.com',1741,1341722752,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you friend for your observation. You are an amazing friend and supporter. Joy\'s book opened my heart to things I hadn\'t known before. In a lot of ways, I would never known God\'s grace without my fall. Thank God that He sees with in us even after we fail Him. He loves us and brings us beyond our failures. That\'s one of the themes of Joy\'s book. That God sees more in us than we will ever see.'),(1108,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1742,1341727950,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi jerry lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank God sees what we could be...and does not ever give up on that vision. I feel that His mercy serves one purpose: my unending joy and freedom. Having \"tripped\" myself, it appeared to me His response was always to run and pick me up, uncaring if I deserved it or thanked Him. I cannot possibly tell you how wondrous is your soul\'s journey to me. Thank you, thank you, thank you.'),(1109,'kglethean@gmail.com',1743,1341869657,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Kevin Gonzaga\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nGerard,\r\n\r\nThanks for your encouragement and you make a good point.  There is always the need to be patient and understanding with those who fail to see what we see, and I at least appreciate it when people treat me the same way.  Giving up on having conversations with others about this issue is not a good way forward, though those conversations may be difficult and frustrating.\r\n\r\n-Kevin'),(1110,'lizdyer55@gmail.com',1744,1342045224,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Liz\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI think the criticism is that Christians were \"rejoicing\" about the death of Bin Laden and that they defend torturing one\'s enemy.'),(1111,'rainbow.explore@gmail.com',1745,1342047790,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jacob\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThe idea that God suffers with us and not just for us is transformational. Could it be that Immanuel - \"God with us\" also means a \"God who suffers with us\" ? \r\n\r\nWhich human heart would not want to love a God who suffers with their pain? And that is what the cross essentially symbolizes (not discounting all the other theology aside)?  Did not Jesus say, \"When I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself ?\"  Could the message of God who suffers with us (though no explicitly spelt out but has to be inferred) be that magnetic force that will draw humans to their Creator?'),(1112,'coachpam@aol.com',1746,1342101737,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Pam Walsh\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nWonderful article, Greg. Wonderful. May I please reprint on FB the prayer in the lower right corner, attributing it to you with your web address? It is wondrous.'),(1113,'StrategicMonk@gmail.com',1747,1342106654,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi StrategicMonk\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you, Pam. That is a prayer from the Episcopal Book of Common Prayer that I referred to in a post on my own website:\n\nKeep watch, dear Lord, with those who work, or watch, or weep this night, and give your angels charge over those who sleep. Tend the sick, Lord Christ; give rest to the weary, bless the dying, soothe the suffering, pity the afflicted, shield the joyous; and all for your love\'s sake. Amen.'),(1114,'roy.yanke@gmail.com',1748,1342214778,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Roy Yanke\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nIt would seem that a lot of Christian people are reading this and hiding it from their significant others\r\n\r\nIf this is true (and it sounds like it is), this alone should give us pause. Our freedom should never be used to cover sin and the very fact that we may be \"hiding\" what we are taking into our lives takes us all the way back to the garden...'),(1115,'rayrayc17@live.com',1751,1342215504,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nYou\'re right about that, Roy. Freedom is not license to hide anything from those we love. That is the part that really concerns me.'),(1116,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1752,1342411449,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi jerry lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nDismissing a few millennia of abysmal behvaior, it is hard to rush to the defense of the Church just with today\'s headline. Or yesterday\'s. And probably tomorrow\'s. \r\n\r\nHow is it persecution?  Maher cannot harm truth. Persecution is the action of Riight Wing evangelicals tarnishing and distorting, with their enmeshment in partisan politics, the message of Christ. \r\n\r\nJustice for Americans to kill bin Laden without a tiral? Jesus gave us restorative justice; an eye for eye is dead. Yes, as sinners we deserve death but Christ gave us a new order of Justice: endless mercy and forgiveness. \r\n\r\nThe whole story of Scripture is not murder and assassinations by agents of government.'),(1117,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1753,1342411682,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi jerry lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nSo, if it is plain that the rich do not create jobs and the tax cuts for them did not trickle down and the Republicans are pushing for more of the same, who do we vote for? And why is the Right pushing for more of the same?'),(1118,'seasickdoctor@gmail.com',1755,1343075848,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Christine Sine\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI am so glad to read your article -sorry I did not notice it sooner. I first heard Ched Myers present this view a couple of years ago. It gave me whip lash but made me realize how easily we can misconstrue what Jesus says if we don\'t listen to the stories told in the way that Jesus would have told them. You may like to see Ched\'s article too http://godspace.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/the-parable-of-the-talents-a-view-from-the-other-side/'),(1119,'clkinnai@samford.edu',1756,1343153841,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Charles Kinnaird\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nWe read in shock and horror how our ancient ancestors would sacrifice young innocent children in religious ritual. We must recall that same shock and horror and ask ourselves, why is the game of football and the institution of the church so important that we allow (or cover up) the sacrifice of innocent children just to preserve the institution we love, whether that institution be football or the the church. The parallels between Joe Paterno and the Vatican are quite telling (football in America is probably the most sacred of our institutions). \r\n\r\nThe only good news is that today we are more aware, and some people are demanding that authorities be held accountable for the harm done to children for the sake of the beloved game or church.'),(1120,'rayrayc17@live.com',1757,1343368701,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nJonathan, I think this is awesome, Submitted my article and I hope it helps. This is a well needed synchroblog (I think I spelled that wrong) that all of our authors need to be part of. I\'d love to hear everyone, from all backgrounds, subsets, genders, denominations, interests, political views, scriptural views, and everything else chime in. I\'m excited, my friend. \r\n\r\nWhen Christ walked along the riverside to call his disciples, he didn\'t call perfect men. He called rough and tumble characters. That\'s what we have here at Provoketive. People who care enough to share their hearts. I\'m anxious to hear from everyone and learn from their journeys.'),(1121,'lukasaurelius@gmail.com',1758,1343666901,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Luke Wilson\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI think the language of satan is that of a god-like status in the minds of Christians because that is the type of imagery used in the New Testament concerning the devil.\r\n\r\nThis language is used in Paul\'s writings, here:\r\n\r\n2 Corinthians 4:4\r\n\"The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.\"\r\n\r\nEphesians 2:1-2\r\n\"As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.\"\r\n\r\nAnd also in John\'s epistle:\r\n\r\n1 John 5:19\r\n\"We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.\"\r\n\r\nWhich is also affirmed by Jesus when he says: \r\n\"Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.\" in John 12:31\r\n\r\nNot only here, but as well in a more subtle way in the temptations of Jesus in the desert the devil is shown to have some kind of authority over the earth in a way akin to a \"god\":\r\n\r\nMatt 4:8\r\n\"Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendour. ‘All this I will give you,’ he said, ‘if you will bow down and worship me.’\"\r\n\r\nSo, in conclusion, the belief in a personal entity of the devil has been very present from the beginnings of Christianity, and with the way the devil is described and spoken of in these verses, it\'s no wonder that a deity-like impression has been given about satan. \r\nBut, while I can see you point and I can see where this \"double-deity\" idea has probably come from, I think it\'s largely down to a misunderstanding about the way God operates and that the angels (for the devil is usually thought of as a \'fallen angel\') has some kind of power which we can see through the Bible - although not as powerful as God\'s, but definitely moreso than us mere mortals have. So while satan may be called a \"god\" as he would probably appear to mortal men, his power is also limited and weak/smaller than God\'s power, yet God has chosen a time to overpower and remove the devil\'s \'rule\' that he appears to have or be allowed to have on earth.\r\nMaybe the Gospel writers and early apostles chose a poor selection of words to describe the power the devil has over people/earth which has led to a \'deification\' in the minds of believers, when it was never intended that way?'),(1122,'sasschristine@yahoo.com',1759,1343770855,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Christie\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nGreat post. Sometimes we all need to be reminded of the importance of listening. Thank you.'),(1123,'StrategicMonk@gmail.com',1760,1343772301,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi StrategicMonk\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you, Christie.\n\nListening gives me the space I need to be mindful and to share my deepest self with the people around me.\n\nThank you for listening.'),(1124,'l3ahmr1@windstream.net',1761,1343792114,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Leah Randall\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nMorgan, that is an incredibly beautiful story. What remarkable insights! Thank you for being so candid and truthful. I think, deep in our hearts, as we mature in Christ, we know what \"mutual submission\" and \"leaders are servants first\" means. Still, we rarely see it in action. \"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.\" Your first paragraph about empowering every member of the body speaks to that better than anything I\'ve ever read. At the same time, even women who have a strong sense of their own \"identity in Christ\", whose spouses and brothers in Christ recognize their gifts, can feel like they must hold back so as not to offend those who hold the patriarchal view on the role of women in the church. I wish I could clone you and give every sister a Morgan for a best friend. :-)'),(1125,'jmyers@tillhecomes.org',1762,1343878241,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jeremy Myers\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nLooking forward to reading them all.'),(1126,'duane@connect2action.com',1763,1343926262,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Duane Grove\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI share a similar journey to yours.  I sometimes regret it took my nearly 50 years to not only intellectually understand this, but more important, to embrace it as a spiritual truth.  Thanks for sharing.'),(1127,'StrategicMonk@gmail.com',1764,1343926383,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi StrategicMonk\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you, Duane.\n\nIt is important for me to remember that every journey takes time. It is a pilgrimage, not a race. Just think of all the experiences you gained, all the lessons you learned, along the way. Your understanding and wisdom are deeper because they had time to develop.\n\nThank you for sharing, too.'),(1128,'steve.martin37@aol.com',1766,1343950492,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Steve Martin\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI think that He searches us out. \r\n\r\nHe leaves the 99 and goes after the one lost lamb.\r\n\r\nAnd even when we keep swimming away from Him. He will not be deterred. He loves us, after all.'),(1129,'sundayriversong@gmail.com',1765,1343951371,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Leah Chang\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nthis is beautiful, thank you! And your conclusion rings so very true: \"What else did I expect from the merciful Christ?\"'),(1130,'rayrayc17@live.com',1768,1343974682,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you, Leah. I\'ve learned a lot in the past three years. One of the most important things is that Christ never gives up on us. We are his children and when we go astray, he comes looking for us. He is the best friend we could have ever asked for.'),(1131,'rayrayc17@live.com',1769,1343974788,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nSteve, I agree with you wholeheartedly. When I was writing my book, \"Fallen Pastor,\" Jonathan Brink brought to my attention the parable of the lost sheep.\r\n\r\nThe idea was that the shepherd knew the 99 were just fine like they were. Christ put his passion into finding the one who went astray. He loves us that much. He never gives up on us. He will seek us after we fall.\r\n\r\nThank you for your comments.'),(1132,'rayrayc17@live.com',1770,1343974918,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Ray Carroll\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you, Leah, for your gracious response. Anyone who has understood the grace and mercy of Christ has nothing to do but rejoice in it, right? I fell so far, even though I was a pastor, that I thought I was hopeless. Isn\'t that strange?\r\n\r\nBut there was the patient Christ, waiting to lift me up. Just like always. \r\n\r\nThank you for sharing and commenting.'),(1133,'l3ahmr1@windstream.net',1771,1343996875,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Leah Randall\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nAmen, Marni! I live in NC, too and I\'ve NEVER seen anything like what\'s been going on. In Christ there is no left or right. Thank you! You captured how I feel about the whole thing!'),(1134,'l3ahmr1@windstream.net',1772,1343999431,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Leah Randall\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nOops, I apologize, Ray...I signed my comment with the link to one of my other blogs, so my Gravatar is missing. Now I have a face. :-)  Looking forward to more of your posts.'),(1135,'l3ahmr1@windstream.net',1773,1343999702,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Leah Randall\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nSo am I, Jeremy! Glad to be keeping company with you here, my friend.'),(1136,'randallcoach@gmail.com',1774,1344009697,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi randall\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThe journey from Lawyer to spiritual direction is a good one. As was your journey from talker to listener.  Thanks for sharing.'),(1137,'travklassen@me.com',1775,1344010101,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Travis Klassen\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nJeremy, this is absolutely gorgeous. Youve painted a beautiful picture of the indelible effect of Jesus. Thanks for writing this. \r\n\r\nTravis'),(1138,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1776,1344011149,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi jerry lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI agree wholeheartedly. Jesus called us blind, not evil, that we know not what we do. This applies both to the beauty and ugliness of our doings. The lasting quality of joy in Christ, independent of circumstances and conditions, is the difference in being. The essential character of all creation is to thrive. Without being hidden in Christ, this core element of life is twisted into ambition, greed, dominance, and a hundred other forms of self-inflicted misery. Christ is \"the way, the truth, and the life\" to how we can thrive, come to realize (\"become aware of and bring into being\")our true potential, identity and purpose. The glory of God is a human being fully alive.\r\nGod is love, and as we are made in the image and likeness of God, love is the I Am both of God and man. Christ is the incarnation of love, its source and nature, and the only way to the father is through the son, which is love. Love is the only true vision of reality, the only way out of our blindness. \r\nSuch love as described and lived by Jesus can exist in Buddhists, Muslims, or anyone else not a professed Christian. It is not necessary to convert to Christianity to be saved but to revert to the essence of our I Am, which is love. This is why it can be said that without love we have nothing and we are nothing.'),(1139,'jmyers@tillhecomes.org',1778,1344015469,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Jeremy Myers\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nJerry, \r\n\r\nI think you and I could have some good conversations about this. \r\n\r\nWhile I do believe that love is of God and that love is the essence to following Jesus, I do not believe that simply because people love others they have eternal life. \r\n\r\nI make distinctions between following Jesus and receiving eternal life.'),(1140,'StrategicMonk@gmail.com',1779,1344018758,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi StrategicMonk\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nThank you, Randall.\n\nYes, these journeys have been good for me. Asking good questions is very different from cross-examining people!'),(1141,'lissaskew@babblebum.com',1780,1344028277,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Liss Askew\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI wasnt sure where you were going with this, but I think I\'m ok with it.  I dont know if I would use the word \"following\" Christ because I feel that the word \"following\" makes me think it is something \"active\" on our part.  God, through the Holy Spirit, maybe \"pulling\" us toward Him, but due to our sin nature we dont actively choose to follow Jesus.  And then we do have to actively acknowledge who Christ is (God) and make him Lord of our life, and follow Him accordingly.  Pertaining to a previous post, Salvation is much more than just love.  Salvation is through Christ alone.  The Biblical Christ of the Bible is the only I AM..I will write more on this later on my blog, For the Love of Babble located at Babblebum.com.  I am just starting, but drop by there some time.   THanks Jeremy for the perspective...Liss Askew'),(1142,'sundayriversong@gmail.com',1781,1344090347,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Leah Chang\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nthis is so thoughtful and beautiful! thanks!'),(1143,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1782,1344107224,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi jerry lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI did note indirectly that the love I spoke of was the one described and lived by Christ, Eternal Love. What most describe as love is deep affection or a form of possession.'),(1144,'lynch.gerard@yahoo.com',1783,1344109083,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi jerry lynch\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nA living example of the early church is the program of AA, although it does not function in the name of Christ. Its emphasis on a spirit of action over a system of belief, confession and testimony at gatherings, and strong fellowship mirror the descriptions I have read of that time before Constantine. It could be a model for a church.'),(1145,'l3ahmr1@windstream.net',1784,1344137610,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Leah Randall\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nExcellent, Carol! You put this topic in the context of where we ALL are in our followership of Christ RIGHT NOW (even though we are all at our personally different \"places\" in our personally different journeys) by framing it within the issues and events of today.  Reading, I feel my heart swelling with confirmation...\"This one...yes, she \'gets it\'!\"  Our heavenly Father is pleased with you...I know He is. Can\'t wait to hear more from you.'),(1146,'l3ahmr1@windstream.net',1785,1344138348,'Thank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine','Hi Leah Randall\r\n\r\nThank you for your comment at Provoketive Magazine (http://provoketive.com). We’re creating a space of rich conversation about life, faith, justice and culture without judgment. Our desire is to provoke the reader’s imagination through conversation and open up spaces of dialogue, learning, and hope.  We want to invite you to come back soon and continue to participate in the conversation. \r\n\r\nThank you,\r\nJonathan Brink\r\nProvoketive Magazine\r\n\r\nYou posted the following comment:\r\n---------------------------------\r\nI agree, with those who have called this \"beautiful\", Jeremy.  You\'re right. All Creation is being swept into Christ, that He may be \"all in all\". It\'s not all that important to me whether I can wrap my mind around HOW He will sort it all out, but I know He WILL. That\'s all I need to know. He will sort it all out--beautifully--and all I need to do is simply follow Him. I can enjoy what you\'ve illuminated here--His \"sorting-out\" of all things--because He lives in me, and if I can but follow Him, perhaps others will SEE Him living in me. Your post didn\'t disappoint me...I didn\'t expect it to. In fact, I feel quite humbled to even be writing about this in your company. Blessings, J! This was \"right on\"!'),